EPTMini has a chance against Rain. I remember a PvP they played with Dark Archons. Especially if Mini goes into the series with a boost of confidence he has a better chance then what people are writing here.
[ASL7] Semifinal A - Mini vs EffOrt - Page 12
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Alpha-NP-
United States1242 Posts
Mini has a chance against Rain. I remember a PvP they played with Dark Archons. Especially if Mini goes into the series with a boost of confidence he has a better chance then what people are writing here. | ||
BigFan
TLADT24920 Posts
On March 05 2019 06:43 KamMoye wrote: Unless it's Flash v X, top pro v top pro is never worse than 3:1 for an upset. Anyone who thinks this is a tremendously huge upset isn't paying attention to the scene. There were many people who acted like effort was guaranteed finals. Just like now there are many acting like Rain can't lose. They're just hiding their ignorance through faux confidence. Well played and well deserved to Mini. To be fair, EffOrt looked really solid in ASL6 and was doing pretty well this ASL as well. Sure, Flash is at the top of the hierarchy and people will probably still bring up his losses in ATB, ASL5 and ASL6, however, if an underdog won, it's still an upset regardless. Maybe the magnitude is not as big, but I doubt that many people were confident in Mini's ability to beat EffOrt especially since he's an emotional player. | ||
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ggsimida
1148 Posts
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JieXian
Malaysia4677 Posts
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Li_Xin
51 Posts
Last beating Sharp was hardly an upset considering he just 3-0'd Sharp in the last ASL and it's by far his strongest matchup. My prediction: Rain smashes Last and then Mini and then goes on to be the strongest player for some time with Flash gone. | ||
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Ota Solgryn
Denmark2011 Posts
On March 04 2019 23:06 BigFan wrote: This series was just great. To the untrained eye, it'd feel like EffOrt underperformed and there's a possibility that he did in some games, but Mini played the series so well with the way he utilized his units to their best and varied up his style in each game. In game 1, we saw his fantastic zealot micro and a great opener that stunned EffOrt from the start. Game 2 saw the 4 gate speedlot +1 attack, and while EffOrt held the first wave, he was not prepared to hold future ones especially since he went mutas and Mini did a fantastic job of splitting the units up. Game 3 was great defense by EffOrt and then Mini fumbling in the trees so that the mutas closed in on the reavers (his last chance to do something since he almost mined out on 2 bases) then game 4 was a nice shuttle snipe from EffOrt, albeit a bit lucky when he got the first scourge hit. Only Larva seems to pull this stuff off consistently. So funny, now that it isnt Flash you can suddenly acknowledge a player making a favorite "look" bad but actually is just playing bettter. Im still salty about you phrasing when Effort beat Flash and you somehow made the conclusion that Flash was having a bad day. So, yes, the victory was well deserved, but in some games, it felt like Flash didn't play like himself. Maybe he was a bit nervous, felt like it when watching the interview early on. He also kept sticking to the same idea. He knows that EffOrt knows this, and kept going at it. The Flash I know wouldn't try to be that predictive imo... | ||
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Alpha-NP-
United States1242 Posts
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RWLabs
Korea (South)273 Posts
On March 05 2019 10:47 JieXian wrote: Regarding why Effort went muta again and again, my hypothesis is that he might face Rain in the finals and he was playing in a particular way in preparation for that. What do you think? I thought they were Hail Mary attempts to win the game. If the opponent made a single mistake (not enough corsairs, inppropriate cannon placement, unguarded high templars) mutalisks straight up win the game. Not a bad plan if you know you're behind and stand a bad chance winning with the more standard hydra play. I could be wrong though. | ||
FlaShFTW
United States10253 Posts
On March 05 2019 16:46 Ota Solgryn wrote: So funny, now that it isnt Flash you can suddenly acknowledge a player making a favorite "look" bad but actually is just playing bettter. Im still salty about you phrasing when Effort beat Flash and you somehow made the conclusion that Flash was having a bad day. Flash made 2 science facilities and had an injuried wrist... maybe there is some merit behind him saying flash didnt play his 100%. | ||
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BigFan
TLADT24920 Posts
On March 05 2019 16:46 Ota Solgryn wrote: So funny, now that it isnt Flash you can suddenly acknowledge a player making a favorite "look" bad but actually is just playing bettter. Im still salty about you phrasing when Effort beat Flash and you somehow made the conclusion that Flash was having a bad day. So, let me get this straight. You're still salty about a comment I made 4-5 months ago in another LR where my opinion was that Flash didn't play as well as he could because I didn't believe he did. This was my opinion, and you are entitled to yours. You're free to believe that Flash was playing at 100% at the time and EffOrt beat an in-form Flash and that's fine. Likewise, I'm free to believe that Flash didn't play as well as he could especially when it was made clear in the interview afterwards and I gave plenty of examples back then as to where I believe he made uncharacteristic mistakes in his games. We'll just have to agree to disagree as usual. There's not much else to it. If you want to continue being salty about it, that's your prerogative. As for the games, I already gave examples of where Mini excelled in his game compared to you just cherrypicking the first line of my post and ignoring the rest. Much like the ASL6 finals, Mini knew that he couldn't contend with late game PvZ against someone of EffOrt's caliber and decided to go for different styles of play that helped him win in the early or mid game (or gain an advantage and ride it through). Either way, I don't care enough to try and get into an argument with you over my opinion of either series ~ On March 06 2019 04:01 Alpha-NP- wrote: Anyone else notice that Effort used Burrow against Mini’s Sair-Reaver? Effort is so showy when he plays it is amazing. Burrowed hydras is a legit strat to try and catch the shuttle/kill the reaver once he lands in your main. | ||
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KamMoye
United States721 Posts
It's human nature to rationalize. If you wanted to make excuses after the fact, you shouldn't of competed in the first place. | ||
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JieXian
Malaysia4677 Posts
On March 07 2019 01:36 KamMoye wrote: Stress makes players perform worse. Flash is rarely stressed or tested, so forcing him under that kind of stress takes tremendous skill and preparation from the opponent. Most people who have seriously competed and accomplished anything realize that, and that's why no one cares if someone is "playing bad"--no one at that level ever just "plays bad"--their opponent made them. It's human nature to rationalize. If you wanted to make excuses after the fact, you shouldn't of competed in the first place. Yes that's a fair point which I think many of us (probably Ota) share. Even if Flash was having the worst day of his life and he had to face a noob me in the ASL finals he'd probably still calmly stomp me without making 2 Science Facilities or drop his bottle cap, because he would have come in knowing he was the best. | ||
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darktreb
United States3017 Posts
This overlooks how Effort is uniquely good at playing against Flash. Flash has insane game sense and in-game reads. Effort takes advantage of this better than anyone, because he knows he can count on Flash to notice something no one else would. Ironically, Effort is less good at playing against almost everyone else precisely because they are less good at Starcraft than Flash. Of course, Effort is still an incredibly good player, and that's why he still wins at a very high rate. But he is able to become a different level of player only against Flash, due to the unique combination of their respective strengths. | ||
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KamMoye
United States721 Posts
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JieXian
Malaysia4677 Posts
On March 07 2019 10:36 darktreb wrote: One reason people overestimated Effort is because they naturally translate his results against Flash to how he should perform against others. This overlooks how Effort is uniquely good at playing against Flash. Flash has insane game sense and in-game reads. Effort takes advantage of this better than anyone, because he knows he can count on Flash to notice something no one else would. Ironically, Effort is less good at playing against almost everyone else precisely because they are less good at Starcraft than Flash. Of course, Effort is still an incredibly good player, and that's why he still wins at a very high rate. But he is able to become a different level of player only against Flash, due to the unique combination of their respective strengths. That's a good point and would explain the mindfucks going on in the last asl finals. | ||
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Ota Solgryn
Denmark2011 Posts
On March 07 2019 01:36 KamMoye wrote: Stress makes players perform worse. Flash is rarely stressed or tested, so forcing him under that kind of stress takes tremendous skill and preparation from the opponent. Most people who have seriously competed and accomplished anything realize that, and that's why no one cares if someone is "playing bad"--no one at that level ever just "plays bad"--their opponent made them. It's human nature to rationalize. If you wanted to make excuses after the fact, you shouldn't of competed in the first place. You put my thoughts into exact words. Thank you. The reason for me bringing this up again (and maybe being overly salty about it) is because after so many years, so many times and different players not getting close to really testing Flash in a BO5 (only Effort before that, coincidence?), a player is finally able to do so; stress him so much he starts making mistakes, even uncharacteristic mistakes, and the effing BW editor on TeamLiquid of all places, takes the moment, this epic historic moment, and downplays it as the God having an off day. I would have never minded if it was a random user, even if it was an established user, it happens all the time. All the time a fan's favorite loses, and said fan will comment something like "he didnt bring his A game etc". As KamMoye wrote, that is human nature. But the BW editor now also did that. And it makes me worried for when something like that happens again. | ||
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Ota Solgryn
Denmark2011 Posts
On March 07 2019 10:36 darktreb wrote: One reason people overestimated Effort is because they naturally translate his results against Flash to how he should perform against others. This overlooks how Effort is uniquely good at playing against Flash. Flash has insane game sense and in-game reads. Effort takes advantage of this better than anyone, because he knows he can count on Flash to notice something no one else would. Ironically, Effort is less good at playing against almost everyone else precisely because they are less good at Starcraft than Flash. Of course, Effort is still an incredibly good player, and that's why he still wins at a very high rate. But he is able to become a different level of player only against Flash, due to the unique combination of their respective strengths. Yes, very good points. It is exactly the same dynamic back when JD and Flash had a "rivalry" which Flash won all the time, and all the time made JD "look bad". Flash even stated this on stream and in interviews, that he knows JD inherent reaction patterns, and abuses it to win. Just see the second game last ASL in the group play. JD basically had that game and Flash commented afterwards that he knew he could lure JD to try to finish the game (because it was how JD always reacts), and thereby making the unlikely comeback. This same dynamic seems to be at play for Effort and Flash, only here Effort is the one "on top". It is known from all sports. In tennis Nadal has most of his career made Federer look bad, and it always seemed Federer played worse against Nadal. But what was really happening is that Nadal amazingly made Federer stressed and did not even let Federers normal strengths be at play, thereby making him look like he had an off day. | ||
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SC_ar
United States35 Posts
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Xain0n
Italy3963 Posts
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BigFan
TLADT24920 Posts
On March 09 2019 01:13 Xain0n wrote: If Last plays on his ro4 and ro8 level he should be able to prevail, otherwise Mini will do it. this pretty much. I expect Mini to go all out with preparation in order to try and beat Last. | ||
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