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The balance whining is starting to get out of hand. TL has always had a "zero tolerance" policy when it comes to addressing balance whine. Please be wary of what you post because we will be handing out mod actions now. | ||
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evilfatsh1t
Australia8806 Posts
last put 5 rax up before he even put up his academy. the push was faster than usual and if jd went for defilers he wouldnt have consume before his 3 o clock went down. same reason why he didnt go for lurkers, last could just slow push with vessel irradiate knowing defilers werent going to come out anyway. this is why 1-1-1 is preferred amongst pros over 1 rax fe. the variations you can apply to the build and the mind games are so good for terran | ||
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Ej_
47656 Posts
On September 08 2018 18:32 Dante08 wrote: No way defiler + lurker is worse. Dark swarm + 2 lurkers and Terran has to retreat. Well, I will trust the progamers on that one  | ||
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GreasedUpDeafGuy
United States398 Posts
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Anc13nt
1557 Posts
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Motivate
2860 Posts
On September 08 2018 18:31 Dante08 wrote: It's really good but it's really fragile, one mistake early game and you're dead. When Last and Flash use it it does seem good. I think Zerg just needs to forget about attacking when Terrans do 1-1-1 and just drone like mad and get your third up. I think this is true. Zergs are really fixated on trying to beat 1-1-1 early on. Almost like when muta harass is going well, everyone always wants to win with guardians when really they should just get defilers and win lol. | ||
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starkiller123
United States4030 Posts
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Anc13nt
1557 Posts
On September 08 2018 18:35 starkiller123 wrote: now time to get some sleep before Montreal starts again, all I'm doing is watching starcraft this weekend lol Same lol. | ||
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Dante08
Singapore4139 Posts
On September 08 2018 18:33 evilfatsh1t wrote: jd couldnt go defilers, he didnt have the time. last put 5 rax up before he even put up his academy. the push was faster than usual and if jd went for defilers he wouldnt have consume before his 3 o clock went down. same reason why he didnt go for lurkers, last could just slow push with vessel irradiate knowing defilers werent going to come out anyway. this is why 1-1-1 is preferred amongst pros over 1 rax fe. the variations you can apply to the build and the mind games are so good for terran Really? I'm pretty sure if you rush to defiler you can get dark swarm out just in time. If you manage to get ultra armour I don't see why you won't have time for dark swarm. | ||
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starkiller123
United States4030 Posts
Montreal into GSL into KSL into more Montreal in 4 hours, what a life also watching KSL really makes me wish ASL was still on twitch, i think it would get way more western viewers that way | ||
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evilfatsh1t
Australia8806 Posts
On September 08 2018 18:35 Motivate wrote: I think this is true. Zergs are really fixated on trying to beat 1-1-1 early on. Almost like when muta harass is going well, everyone always wants to win with guardians when really they should just get defilers and win lol. they try to beat them early on because thats when the build is weakest... even then its not THAT weak but if you play standard and you start off mid game at a disadvantage and it stays like that for too long. you dont know what terran is going to do and you dont know which units to build because theres a chance you get a straight up build order loss halfway through the game. thats what makes 1-1-1 so bs. the 4th game for example, cloaked wraiths arent that popular on pure 1-1-1. you see it with 1-1-2 or you see vessel production. but here is exactly where terran has the mind game advantage, jd has no choice but to roll the dice and attempt the standard muta harrass and hope that last didnt get cloaked wraiths. otherwise jd could have chosen hydra/lurker but hed still have to roll the dice and hope terran tried something other than standard vessel production. its hard to win when zerg HAS to attack terran first but terran can choose from 3 different ways to respond with the same opening and some of the responses straight up win you the game. On September 08 2018 18:38 Dante08 wrote: Really? I'm pretty sure if you rush to defiler you can get dark swarm out just in time. If you manage to get ultra armour I don't see why you won't have time for dark swarm. he didnt have ultra armour the first time he defended. it was +1 carapace on ultras. the thing about ultras also is you can spawn them and attack instantly, defilers would have just been irradiated while they sat around waiting for energy or consume to finish. when jd got his +4 finally last was also on +2/+1 so... | ||
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ortseam
996 Posts
On September 08 2018 18:31 Ej_ wrote: If I had to guess, a close 3rd is easier to hold vs 1-1-1 and lurker into defiler is worse then? There definitely is some reason if multiple people (SK, JD, Killer) do it. I think it's very naive to think that it's not good. The main focus of the 1-1-1 midgame is mass vessels . Vessels on high numbers destroy lurker/defiler, but are not so good against ultras (hard to irradiate before fight, irradiate during fight doesn't help Terran with all the splash damage dealt to marines) | ||
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ShloobeR
Korea (South)3820 Posts
On September 08 2018 18:33 evilfatsh1t wrote: jd couldnt go defilers, he didnt have the time. last put 5 rax up before he even put up his academy. the push was faster than usual and if jd went for defilers he wouldnt have consume before his 3 o clock went down. same reason why he didnt go for lurkers, last could just slow push with vessel irradiate knowing defilers werent going to come out anyway. this is why 1-1-1 is preferred amongst pros over 1 rax fe. the variations you can apply to the build and the mind games are so good for terran As far as I saw, he got chitinous plating by the time he hit the first push, I'll watch it again to see but consume comes out faster than CP | ||
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RKC
2848 Posts
It must be so stressful and frustrating for Toss or Zerg to play against a top Terran who knows how to abuse their bag of builds and play mind games. When was the last time a top Terran got 4-0ed or 3-0ed? Almost never. Whilst it's common for a top Terran to absolutely rekt a top Zerg and Toss. I feel that the game design is such that Terran's flexibility gives them a slight psychological edge over the other races. | ||
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repomaniak
Poland324 Posts
KSL cheers art KR KSL Tastosis esports flowers KSL Tasteless JD wins 10 billion dollars KSL Last interview KSL Last ceremony KSL Tastosis esports flowers https://clips.twitch.tv/NastySmoggyMarrowAMPEnergyCherry | ||
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ShloobeR
Korea (South)3820 Posts
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Dante08
Singapore4139 Posts
On September 08 2018 18:42 evilfatsh1t wrote: they try to beat them early on because thats when the build is weakest... even then its not THAT weak but if you play standard and you start off mid game at a disadvantage and it stays like that for too long. you dont know what terran is going to do and you dont know which units to build because theres a chance you get a straight up build order loss halfway through the game. thats what makes 1-1-1 so bs. the 4th game for example, cloaked wraiths arent that popular on pure 1-1-1. you see it with 1-1-2 or you see vessel production. but here is exactly where terran has the mind game advantage, jd has no choice but to roll the dice and attempt the standard muta harrass and hope that last didnt get cloaked wraiths. otherwise jd could have chosen hydra/lurker but hed still have to roll the dice and hope terran tried something other than standard vessel production. its hard to win when zerg HAS to attack terran first but terran can choose from 3 different ways to respond with the same opening and some of the responses straight up win you the game. he didnt have ultra armour the first time he defended. it was +1 carapace on ultras. the thing about ultras also is you can spawn them and attack instantly, defilers would have just been irradiated while they sat around waiting for energy or consume to finish. when jd got his +4 finally last was also on +2/+1 so... I think the solution is standard 3 hatch --> get 2-3 hydras --> Spire into 4 scourge --> scout with the 4 scourge and produce mutas accordingly. At the same time get a fast third and tech to hive + lurker/defiler. Scouting with scourge would be the key as they are fast and even if you lose them it doesn't set you back much. | ||
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Uldridge
Belgium5048 Posts
Sure, you basically have 4 rines, a wraith and a tank for 5 minutes straight, but SCV's are tanky as fuck and are good meat shields (game 3). Maybe Z should try to have a bigger drone count? Have more mining bases? Tech quicker themselves (f.e. 2 base 2 hatch hive?) | ||
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Delial1986
29 Posts
User was warned for this post | ||
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evilfatsh1t
Australia8806 Posts
On September 08 2018 18:50 Dante08 wrote: I think the solution is standard 3 hatch --> get 2-3 hydras --> Spire into 4 scourge --> scout with the 4 scourge and produce mutas accordingly. At the same time get a fast third and tech to hive + lurker/defiler. Scouting with scourge would be the key as they are fast and even if you lose them it doesn't set you back much. well its not really a solution when your only chance to win is to either kill them early or just sit back and drone up for a macro game. the 1st is easier said than done and the 2nd, well terran enters the mid game with no economical damage, full sk terran and youve still lost at least a couple overlords at the beginning. its not unwinnable but its a sucky way to have to enter the mid game just because their build is too flexible | ||
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AncientSion
73 Posts
Flash is good, as is Last, but they use Terran so basicly OP player on top of OP race = unbeatable. User was warned for this post. | ||
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