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The balance whining is starting to get out of hand. TL has always had a "zero tolerance" policy when it comes to addressing balance whine. Please be wary of what you post because we will be handing out mod actions now. | ||
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Motivate
2860 Posts
terran was doing extremely poorly up until now. in fact, up until this series people were still very skeptical of last or any terran besides flash. also, we're still at the stage where NO ONE can tvp besides flash. i'm the biggest zerg fanboy but give credit where it's due. last played really well. | ||
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starkiller123
United States4030 Posts
On September 08 2018 18:57 Motivate wrote: wow... since when do people complain about broodwar perceived imbalance? terran was doing extremely poorly up until now. in fact, up until this series people were still very skeptical of last or any terran besides flash. also, we're still at the stage where NO ONE can tvp besides flash. i'm the biggest zerg fanboy but give credit where it's due. last played really well. people will find a way to bitch about anything | ||
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evilfatsh1t
Australia8912 Posts
On September 08 2018 18:49 ShloobeR wrote: Ahh okay just rewatching it, Ultralisk Chitinous plating upgrade finished while he was killing the first push, so he definitely would have had consume/lurker out even if he could have gotten consume out, he would have to defend with ling/muta/defilers. he wasnt teching to lurkers before the attack and to start when he realised the push was going to come fast, well he wouldnt have the resources for it. if we analyse the game and judge their decisions by the second then yeah defilers could have been better but i doubt jd wanted to risk defilers being a bit too late. he needed to defend the 3oclock perfectly. even if the hatchery didnt die drone losses would be devastating anyway and defilers with swarm would still have incurred losses | ||
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outscar
2832 Posts
And happy for Last, he finally gets his win and shows he's not just some other terran. | ||
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Delial1986
29 Posts
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Lazare1969
United States318 Posts
On September 08 2018 18:52 Delial1986 wrote: I feel all discussions about what JD could do all pointless because Terrans are just fucking OP. And it is not about Last or Flash amazing skill, because I think JD strategical thinking and mechanics and all others skills are on the same level. He is just playing against OP Terrans. It is not without reason why Zerg didn't win any major tournament in SC for years! Did you see how JD threw away like 4 lurkers in the first game? There were 2 chances he could've won that game. Second game was him gambling with only 2 sunkens to try to take care of a whole marine & medic control group. Third game Jaedong again could've won the game after he busted his two bunkers and ran zerglins up the ramp, but played too indecisively afterwards. Fourth game was probably the only game you could say was a BO win because of how strong 1-1-1 is in cross spawns. | ||
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chongu
Malaysia2600 Posts
Jaedong wasn't able to show us his standard tvz, but such is the nature of tvz, Terran dictates the flow of the game. Terran seemed imba in the first two maps, really reminded me of flash Vs jaedong games where jaedong is half the supply of the Terran player without too much happening. Haha All in all, I wouldn't expect it to be a StarCraft tvz finals without whining.  | ||
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Delial1986
29 Posts
On September 08 2018 19:08 Lazare1969 wrote: Did you see how JD threw away like 4 lurkers in the first game? There were 2 chances he could've won that game. Second game was him gambling with only 2 sunkens to try to take care of a whole marine & medic control group. Third game Jaedong again could've won the game after he busted his two bunkers and ran zerglins up the ramp, but played too indecisively afterwards. Fourth game was probably the only game you could say was a BO win because of how strong 1-1-1 is in cross spawns. I see it a bit differently. Game 1 bunker rush into soft contain makes it all easy for Last, but JD comes with some smart moves - zerlings run by, snipes with scourges and is almost on his way to come back, but makes ONE mistake with lurkers and it is GG. Game 2 - Polaris - 2 CC first - I think with this map it's gg from Zerg anyway. Game 3: perfect example of how much advantage JD manage to get in the early game and it is still not enough to beat Terran. Game 4: 1-1-1 into spam rax, sv, marines, medics and just a-move unitl you win. User was warned for this post. | ||
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Ej_
47656 Posts
On September 08 2018 19:07 Delial1986 wrote: Sorry, I don't think it's bitching, it is really simple observation. You can even find video with Korean zerg pros gathered and complaining about TvZ. You can find videos online of people saying that vaccines cause autism. | ||
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RKC
2848 Posts
Surely in an asymmetrical game, it is less plausible that the matchup between both sides is perfectly 50-50 balanced. Top Terrans are slightly favoured against top Zergs in most maps (eg 52-55%) - is that an unreasonable assumption given the entire history of BW? Anyway, the discussion was about why that such assumption may be true (eg flexibility of builds). If you don't agree with the assumption, then no need to be bitchy about it. | ||
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Delial1986
29 Posts
On September 08 2018 19:19 Ej_ wrote: You can find videos online of people saying that vaccines cause autism. Oh come on, this is really dick move to use such a comparison. | ||
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ShloobeR
Korea (South)3829 Posts
On September 08 2018 19:02 evilfatsh1t wrote: even if he could have gotten consume out, he would have to defend with ling/muta/defilers. he wasnt teching to lurkers before the attack and to start when he realised the push was going to come fast, well he wouldnt have the resources for it. if we analyse the game and judge their decisions by the second then yeah defilers could have been better but i doubt jd wanted to risk defilers being a bit too late. he needed to defend the 3oclock perfectly. even if the hatchery didnt die drone losses would be devastating anyway and defilers with swarm would still have incurred losses Well the point is I'm assuming he wasn't teching to lurkers because he had already made up his mind to go ultras. If he had no intention of going ultras he would have started the hydra den / lurker tech earlier without a doubt Considering he already had knowledge that the push was going to be quite tank heavy (and he had already lowered the vessel count a little bit), his decision to go ultras at any point just makes no sense to me. I guess we'll just have to disagree. | ||
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Motivate
2860 Posts
On September 08 2018 19:19 RKC wrote: No one is saying that Terran is overwhelmingly OP (eg 90% stronger than other races). Surely in an asymmetrical game, it is less plausible that the matchup between both sides is perfectly 50-50 balanced. Top Terrans are slightly favoured against top Zergs in most maps (eg 52-55%) - is that an unreasonable assumption given the entire history of BW? Anyway, the discussion was about why that such assumption may be true (eg flexibility of builds). If you don't agree with the assumption, then no need to be bitchy about it. I find it is a very hard match up, yes. There are LOTS of ways for the Zerg to die from simple mistakes. As is the case with TvP or PvZ which are both very difficult for Terran and Protoss respectively (although I note on the previous page you say that Terran has a bag of builds vs protoss which I disagree with). However, a knee jerk response that Terran is overpowered isn't correct either. You don't see people complaining that Protoss is overpowered whenever they beat Terran? Last ASL, Protoss had maps (Third World) where they could abuse both carriers and arbiters. | ||
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RKC
2848 Posts
On September 08 2018 19:27 Motivate wrote: I find it is a very hard match up, yes. There are LOTS of ways for the Zerg to die from simple mistakes. As is the case with TvP or PvZ which are both very difficult. However, a knee jerk response that Terran is overpowered isn't correct either. You don't see people complaining that Protoss is overpowered whenever they beat Terran? I was quite bitter when Snow defeated Flash last ASL actually. I still feel the map pool was terrible for Terran. For the record, I play Terran in BW. I know how annoying we can be, even at lower levels of play  | ||
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whaski
Finland577 Posts
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AzAlexZ
Australia3303 Posts
lol JD fans are just sad that he lost, quit whining, JD did really well even if he lost, second place in 8 years, thats not bad at all | ||
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Cryoc
Germany912 Posts
On September 08 2018 19:27 Motivate wrote: I find it is a very hard match up, yes. There are LOTS of ways for the Zerg to die from simple mistakes. As is the case with TvP or PvZ which are both very difficult for Terran and Protoss respectively (although I note on the previous page you say that Terran has a bag of builds vs protoss which I disagree with). However, a knee jerk response that Terran is overpowered isn't correct either. You don't see people complaining that Protoss is overpowered whenever they beat Terran? Last ASL, Protoss had maps (Third World) where they could abuse both carriers and arbiters. The majority of people play Protoss, so no surprise there. | ||
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darktreb
United States3019 Posts
On September 08 2018 19:35 AzAlexZ wrote: so when JD 4-0'd Rain did ppl bitch about Zerg OP? lol JD fans are just sad that he lost, quit whining, JD did really well even if he lost, second place in 8 years, thats not bad at all Yeah. I was rooting for JD but this is how BW works. ZvP, TvZ, and PvT sweeps are easier to come by. Also this was winner's choice map selection. That means win streaks are more likely. 1-0 usually leads to at least 2-0. The nice thing about winner's choice is that reverse streaks also become more likely. | ||
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chuDr3t4
Russian Federation484 Posts
happy for Last making 1 mistake that loses you the game and makes you lose the initiative so you get sweeped in the finals... well that's brood war for you. | ||
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Uldridge
Belgium5194 Posts
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