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On May 09 2017 22:26 PolarisSpark wrote:
Very new to watching BW. How are the maps that each match is played on chosen? And why do BW leagues prefer bo1 over bo3 group format?
The maps are chosen by the organizers. The bo1 is the Dual Tournament format, as opposed to a round robin style group. I'm not sure why they do it like this as I would prefer bo3 but it's their tournament. Quarters, Semis, and Grand finals are bo5 though.
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Man, I'm glad I didn't have the time to do my bets before the group, as it would have been another mediocre 1/2.
The last two games were great, I really enjoyed them.
Are the Ro8 matchups as shown over on Liquipedia finalised? Last v. Flash should be by all means a lot better than the one they had in ASL1.
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On May 09 2017 22:41 HalcyonRain wrote:Show nested quote +On May 09 2017 22:26 PolarisSpark wrote:
Very new to watching BW. How are the maps that each match is played on chosen? And why do BW leagues prefer bo1 over bo3 group format? The maps are chosen by the organizers. The bo1 is the Dual Tournament format, as opposed to a round robin style group. I'm not sure why they do it like this as I would prefer bo3 but it's their tournament.
the reason is just the OSL tradition, I'm pretty sure.
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TLADT24920 Posts
On May 09 2017 22:47 juvenal wrote:Show nested quote +On May 09 2017 22:41 HalcyonRain wrote:On May 09 2017 22:26 PolarisSpark wrote:
Very new to watching BW. How are the maps that each match is played on chosen? And why do BW leagues prefer bo1 over bo3 group format? The maps are chosen by the organizers. The bo1 is the Dual Tournament format, as opposed to a round robin style group. I'm not sure why they do it like this as I would prefer bo3 but it's their tournament. the reason is just the OSL tradition, I'm pretty sure.
pretty much. It made it easier to do for scheduling purposes.
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There's no other way to say it, Jaedong played a HELL of a game but got crushed with mech.
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On May 09 2017 21:40 Jacenoob wrote:Show nested quote +On May 09 2017 21:29 BigFan wrote:
You guys are free to discuss the game but quit with the balance whining.
That's the point right. Discuss the game. We can pretend that JD just wasn't good enough, that he lacked multitasking or that his control was poor. But I don't think that would be honest, he played amazing and nobody in the world can pull off the perfection in control throughout such a long game that some people are suggesting here. The reason why he lost was that at least with maps like Circuit Breaker Zerg just has no fair fighting chance, the game is imbalanced, that is the reason why the game ended the way it ended, if you like it or not.
I love Jaedong but he's not even top 3 in late game ZvT right now, and Last is a top 2 TvZ player.
ZvT is tough right now but people are acting like it's a travesty that the better player pulled off a small comeback. It's not like Last is some TvZ only abuser - he's a top 3 player in all matchups.
The blunt truth is Jaedong is a borderline top 10 player right now who takes his game up a notch in big games because of his greatness.
Again, ZvT maybe isn't at the balance level we would all prefer, but people are over-indexing on this game because of Jaedong's brand name and him playing a great game for ~20 minutes but still not really having great late game ZvT sense.
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On May 09 2017 22:35 TheNewEra wrote:Show nested quote +On May 09 2017 22:32 wabe.PrayHard wrote:
does anyone know what maps will be played at the quarterfinals? Ro8? is it bo3 right? Maps for Ro8 aren't revealed yet. Afreeca wanted to decide after Ro16. Complete bracket will be Bo5
On May 09 2017 22:36 Terrorbladder wrote:Show nested quote +On May 09 2017 22:32 wabe.PrayHard wrote:
does anyone know what maps will be played at the quarterfinals? Ro8? is it bo3 right? Ro8 is bo5
thank you guys! this series will be crazy, so stoke.
let's wait for the maps to be revealed
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TLADT24920 Posts
On May 09 2017 22:40 LRM)TechnicS wrote:Show nested quote +On May 09 2017 22:17 BigFan wrote:On May 09 2017 21:40 Jacenoob wrote:On May 09 2017 21:29 BigFan wrote:
You guys are free to discuss the game but quit with the balance whining.
That's the point right. Discuss the game. We can pretend that JD just wasn't good enough, that he lacked multitasking or that his control was poor. But I don't think that would be honest, he played amazing and nobody in the world can pull off the perfection in control throughout such a long game that some people are suggesting here. The reason why he lost was that at least with maps like Circuit Breaker Zerg just has no fair fighting chance, the game is imbalanced, that is the reason why the game ended the way it ended, if you like it or not. Did you forget about his razor thing defense at his expansion or when he plagued Last's SCVs at his expansion but didn't target his workers so he killed, guess what, 0 workers? .. Lol at suggesting Jaedong failed to micro his two lurker drop at different expos while not mentioning Last completely disregarding those and not even pulling his workers in the first place. This goes to show how the lurk-defiler drop might turn expensive and risky harrass (the risk of not killing anything, losing overlords on the way) to do as opposed to vultures harrassing undefended mineral lines. This was more of a "im not there" by Last type of moment then "im not microing good enough" type of moment by Jaedong.
You missed my point. My point was that Jaedong wasn't playing as perfectly as some implied. I only chose those two situations because each had/could've had a more drastic effect on the match-up but there's a lot of other more important situations that contributed to his loss.
On May 09 2017 22:51 darktreb wrote:Show nested quote +On May 09 2017 21:40 Jacenoob wrote:On May 09 2017 21:29 BigFan wrote:
You guys are free to discuss the game but quit with the balance whining.
That's the point right. Discuss the game. We can pretend that JD just wasn't good enough, that he lacked multitasking or that his control was poor. But I don't think that would be honest, he played amazing and nobody in the world can pull off the perfection in control throughout such a long game that some people are suggesting here. The reason why he lost was that at least with maps like Circuit Breaker Zerg just has no fair fighting chance, the game is imbalanced, that is the reason why the game ended the way it ended, if you like it or not. I love Jaedong but he's not even top 3 in late game ZvT right now, and Last is a top 2 TvZ player. ZvT is tough right now but people are acting like it's a travesty that the better player pulled off a small comeback. It's not like Last is some TvZ only abuser - he's a top 3 player in all matchups. The blunt truth is Jaedong is a borderline top 10 player right now who takes his game up a notch in big games because of his greatness. Again, ZvT maybe isn't at the balance level we would all prefer, but people are over-indexing on this game because of Jaedong's brand name and him playing a great game for ~20 minutes but still not really having great late game ZvT sense.
Pretty much. I was worried about him coming into this group because even though sSak supposedly isn't practicing as much, he's not to be underestimated and we know what happened. He rolled Jaedong over and beat Last to take an unexpected but well-earned first place.
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On May 09 2017 22:40 trutaCz wrote:Show nested quote +On May 09 2017 22:35 2Pacalypse- wrote:On May 09 2017 22:19 trutaCz wrote:
Btw playing for so long on 4 bases was intentional. That wasn't a mistake. It was probably both. It's a build order he picked, he wanted to be agressive with timings. It's so simple to judge for all of you while u see whole map and point out both mistakes. Yes both of them made mistakes, you can't play without them.
Of course we judge, we are fans, and I was rooting for JD. You judge players too. JD's biggest blunder was attacking Last's upper-left expansion with only his mutas. After that he was just trading units with Last, but Last was going to eventually win out because he had the stronger economy (7 bases vs 5), as well as the cost efficiency of vultures. As someone pointed out earlier JD should have taken the mineral expansions and he could of kept up with Last's macro.
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Shameless terran apologists: bla bla bla Last and Flash are just to good; bla bla bla JD made a lot of mistakes; bla bla bla CB is the most balanced map ever created. Yep, its ridiculously balanced. Just look at this stats:
Circuit Breaker
TvZ: 166-115 (59.07%) [ Games ]
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that was some really entertaining games
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On May 09 2017 21:27 LRM)TechnicS wrote:Show nested quote +On May 09 2017 21:17 Bakuryu wrote:watching at how the game went, i couldnt stop but smile/laugh at how Jaedong played. He keeps making the same mistakes. On May 02 2017 09:09 Bakuryu wrote:
if Jaedong would like coaching i happily offer myself for free. I have all the solutions. lay out his mistakes thoroughly and say exactly what he should have done, please.
honestly, i dont want to.
in this thread we have now 4 high level foreign zergs.
Technics, Trutacz, Eonzerg and me. (please no hate that i count myself.......)
we all play this game competitively at "high foreign level" for a long time, winning tournaments, each of us with different playstyles and builds. Because of all of our experience in the 10000s of games we played and observed, all of us have an opinion of who did what wrong and how things should have been done. It looks like in this game here we 4 have 3-4 different opinions.
the last time i tried to explain my opinion to eonzerg, we both ended up defending our own opinion while basically saying the other opinion "should not work". all in all, a great waste of time.
now i would have to "fight" against all 3 of you and the only way to actually "win" would be to play all my knowledge cards at the same time, basically explaining everything.
Problem here is that i still see you 3 as rivals, and so far my knowledge is my greatest strength, so telling you guys all i know will make it harder to play with you 3 competitively :D
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and since there are hundred of thousands of dollars on the line playing broodwar competetively outside of korea right now it makes perfect sense not to tell your point of view/ideas..
makes sense..
-_-
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Of course it's a waste of time.
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Croatia9517 Posts
On May 09 2017 22:40 trutaCz wrote:Show nested quote +On May 09 2017 22:35 2Pacalypse- wrote:On May 09 2017 22:19 trutaCz wrote:
Btw playing for so long on 4 bases was intentional. That wasn't a mistake. It was probably both. It's a build order he picked, he wanted to be agressive with timings. It's so simple to judge for all of you while u see whole map and point out both mistakes. Yes both of them made mistakes, you can't play without them.
Of course we judge; there's nothing wrong with that. We're not saying his build order choice was bad, it's just that in hindsight, it was probably a mistake. The important thing is to learn from your mistakes though ^^
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On May 09 2017 22:58 BigFan wrote:Show nested quote +On May 09 2017 22:40 LRM)TechnicS wrote:On May 09 2017 22:17 BigFan wrote:On May 09 2017 21:40 Jacenoob wrote:On May 09 2017 21:29 BigFan wrote:
You guys are free to discuss the game but quit with the balance whining.
That's the point right. Discuss the game. We can pretend that JD just wasn't good enough, that he lacked multitasking or that his control was poor. But I don't think that would be honest, he played amazing and nobody in the world can pull off the perfection in control throughout such a long game that some people are suggesting here. The reason why he lost was that at least with maps like Circuit Breaker Zerg just has no fair fighting chance, the game is imbalanced, that is the reason why the game ended the way it ended, if you like it or not. Did you forget about his razor thing defense at his expansion or when he plagued Last's SCVs at his expansion but didn't target his workers so he killed, guess what, 0 workers? .. Lol at suggesting Jaedong failed to micro his two lurker drop at different expos while not mentioning Last completely disregarding those and not even pulling his workers in the first place. This goes to show how the lurk-defiler drop might turn expensive and risky harrass (the risk of not killing anything, losing overlords on the way) to do as opposed to vultures harrassing undefended mineral lines. This was more of a "im not there" by Last type of moment then "im not microing good enough" type of moment by Jaedong. You missed my point. My point was that Jaedong wasn't playing as perfectly as some implied. I only chose those two situations because each had/could've had a more drastic effect on the match-up but there's a lot of other more important situations that contributed to his loss.
I don't see anybody here saying Jaedong played perfectly. If anything - it is exactly the opposite + a guy offering him free lessons. Most people are dissecting Jaedong's ZvT, pointing to whatever mistakes they can think of like if they knew better than him.
And no, the lurk/swarm drop wouldnt have had such a drastic effect as you describe even if Jaedong killed all scvs at these expos microing 1 lurker per exp while doing all else. If this is truly what you meant, this just shows to me that you are leaning towards being clueless in the high level ZvT/TvZ game. All it took was Last to pull his scvs immediately, instead these drops almost went unnoticed. On top of that the defiler on the natural of Last was alive well after the Lurker was killed.
I am not saying Jaedong played perfectly, I am saying Last played pretty bad (for his level) and got away with a win. This is why the game went for so long and looked like Jaedong had a chance for a brief moment or two around that muta switch. Besides that moment, there wasn't any point in the game where I thought he is "so far so good for Jaedong" as Tasteless described wrongfully very early at exactly the moment Jaedong was surely behind, at least in my eyes.
Jaedong had his great moments and weaknesses in the game, I might have some critiques in mind, but I am not necessarily certain they are all correct as I definitely don't consider my ZvT of higher level than his nor can I understand his subtle ingame struggles vs Top2 (at worst) TvZer at the moment.
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On May 09 2017 23:20 2Pacalypse- wrote:Show nested quote +On May 09 2017 22:40 trutaCz wrote:On May 09 2017 22:35 2Pacalypse- wrote:On May 09 2017 22:19 trutaCz wrote:
Btw playing for so long on 4 bases was intentional. That wasn't a mistake. It was probably both. It's a build order he picked, he wanted to be agressive with timings. It's so simple to judge for all of you while u see whole map and point out both mistakes. Yes both of them made mistakes, you can't play without them. Of course we judge; there's nothing wrong with that. We're not saying his build order choice was bad, it's just that in hindsight, it was probably a mistake. The important thing is to learn from your mistakes though ^^
A mistake might be an execution. For example : making wrong decisions with ur army. Take a look on it from the other side. Jaedong makes better fight and denies both top left bases and wins the game. Are you still going to say that his b.o was a mistake?
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Last absolutely smashed and it was really great to see. I was convinced during JD's Ultralisk drops that he'd be able to turn it back by closing the supply gap and removing most of Last's tanks, but it was a bit hard to believe after looking at the minimap and seeing Last on so many bases + more bank saved up.
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EPT
