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[[Starlight]]
United States1578 Posts
On August 31 2015 15:52 RKC wrote: It's also ironic that Bisu burst into the limelight 3-0ing savior, and his last game is being 3-0ed by a Zerg. Revenge of the Swarm™, muhahaha.  Still, I'm sure Bisu can brood over his loss while juggling his 3 MSL trophies just for funsies. Must be nice. | ||
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_Animus_
Bulgaria1064 Posts
Hero on the other hand was playing very good and prepared muta builds, a style that differs his usual pvz, that throw off bisu also(in comparison ssl9 final hero was having only 1 build for all 5 sets - overpool, lair- for ove speed, hydra den > mass hydras and eventually spire). | ||
Peeano
Netherlands5674 Posts
On August 31 2015 13:21 Probemicro wrote: the best PvZer basically got 0-4 by a zerg this tourney. Utter tragic humiliation, who will save BW protoss now? Obvious  Olympus with Child as coach and 'S-Class' Larva as guest coach. | ||
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JieXian
Malaysia4677 Posts
On August 31 2015 15:52 RKC wrote: It's also ironic that Bisu burst into the limelight 3-0ing savior, and his last game is being 3-0ed by a Zerg. He made a good run in the tourney, perhaps even exceeding expectations. Had Zero or Mind stopped him first, perhaps that wouldn't be as crushing as losing in the finals. Being Kong can sometimes lead to greater infamy (ask soO). waaaa no way! Imo it's not about that but the way he was playing like free that was disappointing. His games vs mind were top notch.  his games vs zero were top notch.Bisu played nothing like the Bisu we knew while hero played well and switched it up from his games vs free. Something looked really off and I assume it's from the military service thing or something similar. At least free was the same clumsy guy vs hero and mind. Before someone like feckless says something. I play zvt zvp pvz so I'm not a Bisu fanboy except when he's beating up Terrans, because I'm terrible at PvT. Hero's fails by losing drones and scourges were nothing compared to what Bisu failed at, and I know because I play both mu's | ||
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outscar
2832 Posts
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Improvement
203 Posts
Nice play by hero though. | ||
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JieXian
Malaysia4677 Posts
On August 31 2015 23:06 outscar wrote: Everyone should look closer to unit count after Bisu split map when got his his 5th - he got 50 supply advantage and still Hero managed to comeback. Hero is the best Sospa player of all time, even Killer can't cross him now. Yes of course we noticed that, and we also knew that it didn't matter if you have and 80 food advantage when you have a dragoon heavy army and no reavers vs ultra crackling swarm. I don't deny that Hero played well of course. He smashed Bisu completely one sidedly | ||
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BulgarianToss
Bulgaria493 Posts
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Dazed.
Canada3301 Posts
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FlaShFTW
United States10528 Posts
On September 01 2015 03:00 Dazed_Spy wrote: Boring and disappointing series overall. Hero continues to impress though, I have no idea where all this talent came from. He's continuing to impress and improve. I think he has the best work ethic atm in the scene. he forced himself to learn to play ZvT with like a 40% win rate and then went on a 12 game win streak. Continues to improve his ZvZ and his ZvP still looks incredible. | ||
BisuDagger
Bisutopia19368 Posts
On September 01 2015 03:07 FlaShFTW wrote: He's continuing to impress and improve. I think he has the best work ethic atm in the scene. he forced himself to learn to play ZvT with like a 40% win rate and then went on a 12 game win streak. Continues to improve his ZvZ and his ZvP still looks incredible. This exactly. He trained his vT so well I think it has had a profound effect on his overall skill. His amazingly high apm at his age is also unbelievable. | ||
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[[Starlight]]
United States1578 Posts
On September 01 2015 03:00 Dazed_Spy wrote: Boring and disappointing series overall. Hero continues to impress though, I have no idea where all this talent came from. I liked Games 1 and 3. Hero's great response to Bisu's cheese was fun to watch, and Game 3 was entertaining, despite Bisu doing a few 'derp' things (such as storming his own probes). But yeah, overall level of play wasn't top-notch, Bisu didn't hold up his end. Mind-Bisu was a better series. | ||
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dRaW
Canada5744 Posts
On August 31 2015 18:51 _Animus_ wrote: Bisu must have some sort of psycological barrier when playing against Hero. Usually Bisu plays very careful and engage only when hes sure he need to engage. However in these games we saw his army back and forth suiciding all over the place with constant unneeded attacks, not much different was in their previous game from the SSL. That should mean only one - Bisu is super nervious playing against Hero. Havent seen such bad control, storming his own probes, making stupid decisions etc. In game 3 he didnt even switch to late game army composition until the game was over, i was like "wtf is bisu waiting, to die?!?" Game 3 was chaos. Hero on the other hand was playing very good and prepared muta builds, a style that differs his usual pvz, that throw off bisu also(in comparison ssl9 final hero was having only 1 build for all 5 sets - overpool, lair- for ove speed, hydra den > mass hydras and eventually spire). maybe only in live games... When I watch Bisu v Hero on stream @ Afreeca it seems like he normally wins and plays flawlessly. I am not sure why Bisu played so horribly, it's rather disappointing. | ||
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Stratos
Czech Republic6104 Posts
I think it was the pressure and nerves that took the better of Bisu rather than lack of practice. Are people actually suggesting he's played godly vs Mind a week or two ago and then didn't practice at all for the finals? Doesn't make sense and I don't see how some Kongdoo ads two months ago play into that at all. According to Bisu's statement, he didn't participate in SSL10 because the competition was getting the better of him, he would focus so much on it and it became really exhaustive. Not many people really bought it (me included tbh) but if you think about it he's been under this stress for a long time now and there's no saying when you suddenly succumb to it as you grow older. Add to that military worries and general 'what am I doing with my life after this' doubts and you have a recipe for disaster. I seriously doubt Bisu would storm his own probes because he hasn't been practicing hard for a week. That's the kind of mistake you make when you're under stress or exhausted and from his face it looked like he had both going on. For the first time Bisu really seemed human and it made me feel sympathetic towards him. It's a bit of a sad end to his career if he stops here but maybe he can actually recharge in the military and come back even stronger. Or just move on with his life. Regardless, I'm still very impressed by hero's play throughout the finals and the entire SSL! | ||
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Probemicro
3708 Posts
On September 01 2015 15:25 Stratos wrote: I think it was the pressure and nerves that took the better of Bisu rather than lack of practice. Are people actually suggesting he's played godly vs Mind a week or two ago and then didn't practice at all for the finals? Doesn't make sense and I don't see how some Kongdoo ads two months ago play into that at all. the same person that goes bububu way too often on stream, only playing seriously when theres balloons involved? we laugh at the OSL curse and all but bisu still has way more individual broadcast/stage experience than hero, so theres no excuse he should suddenly broke down right at the big finals. He has more than ample time to steel himself and prepare, especially when prior he has received a warning sign during the RO16 losing to hero once there. yeah of course he does practice, but all the fans should question themselves why his mentality suddenly grew soft and complacent on the road leading to the finals.. the very same fans that feed his onstream BUBUBU personality which fueled his downfall then proceed to claim bisu is just suffering from "nerves". uh huh good one. | ||
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Stratos
Czech Republic6104 Posts
It seems you're somewhat emotional about the subject so I don't trust your observations to be unbiased and won't work with them. Unless you're his personal coach I can't trust your evaluations of his mental state either. But of course you're free to keep believing and preaching whatever ^^ | ||
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feckless
1099 Posts
On August 31 2015 22:57 JieXian wrote: Before someone like feckless says something. I play zvt zvp pvz so I'm not a Bisu fanboy except when he's beating up Terrans, because I'm terrible at PvT. LOL, nice attempt to preempt me there. I would suggest you read the previous page. Also, and this isn't solely directed at you, but I don't really care if you're a Bisu fanboy or not, so why don't people stop caring if I'm on some sort of anti-Bisu crusade? I am unconcerned with such things. Hero's fails by losing drones and scourges were nothing compared to what Bisu failed at I wholeheartedly agree. On September 01 2015 00:23 JieXian wrote: Yes of course we noticed that, and we also knew that it didn't matter if you have and 80 food advantage when you have a dragoon heavy army and no reavers vs ultra crackling swarm. I don't deny that Hero played well of course. He smashed Bisu completely one sidedly Yes, exactly. You don't smash someone completely onesidedly like that, right? Like I said before, the mistakes Bisu made weren't trivial. hero made mistakes, too (and I actually think that losing drones like that, especially as a zerg, isn't trivial), but Bisu wasn't just making mistakes. Sure those errors can add up, but I think there was something far more rooted at play here. He was strategically outclassed (you yourself imply so). To me such destruction is so final it suggests one thing: he was unprepared (perhaps underestimating his opponent) and he was outplayed (by a much-improved player who was psychologically in the zone), plain and simple. On September 01 2015 15:25 Stratos wrote: I think it was the pressure and nerves that took the better of Bisu rather than lack of practice. Are people actually suggesting he's played godly vs Mind a week or two ago and then didn't practice at all for the finals? Doesn't make sense and I don't see how some Kongdoo ads two months ago play into that at all. Like ProbeMicro said, Bisu has a lot of broadcast and stage experience, more than hero definitely, so to suggest to me that he simply choked right then and there seems farfetched. But that's my opinion. Also, did he really play "godly" against Mind? I saw a player win a close series (evidenced by the 3-2), with the last game being a gamble that ended up paying off for him. As an aside here, I'm actually curious imagining for a moment if it was hero that had been decimated 3-to-0 and what the reactions would have been? Bisu is such a dominant figure in the current scene it seems almost uncharacteristic for him to go out like that. But if hero had been 3-0'd, how many would have been outright shocked? I'm sure it would have been a surprise to many, but not unexpected. But I can only speculate. hero was completely dominant in this tournament, dropping only one game (to free). But it's like Bisu's complete loss suggests some sort of imbalance in the universe. Just look at some of the posts on this page alone: On September 01 2015 00:01 Improvement wrote: Bisu played so bad, very unusual for him. It was sad to see that. Nice play by hero though. On September 01 2015 02:20 BulgarianToss wrote: Going into these finals Bisu losing 0-3 was the last thing i expected gg's I'm not saying I foresaw hero's dominance in this series. I was expecting a more even slugfest and not a onesided beatdown. That's what makes this victory all the greater in my eyes (and, no, it has nothing to do with Bisu/anti-Bisu crap). hero completely obliterated the perception of Bisu as the dominant player and personality of the current scene. He did more than just defeat a player, he defied people's expectations. | ||
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feckless
1099 Posts
On September 01 2015 16:32 Stratos wrote: I don't know or care what bububu is, I highly doubt Bisu would prepare for the finals with stream on so for that the insights might be mostly irrelevant. As for general streaming practice, as people pointed out Bisu played really well throughout the tour (noticed he got into the finals?) and I don't think one lost game against hero earlier on tells us much. After all, he did only win 3-2 in SSL 9 when no one was questioning his dedication. It seems you're somewhat emotional about the subject so I don't trust your observations to be unbiased and won't work with them. Unless you're his personal coach I can't trust your evaluations of his mental state either. But of course you're free to keep believing and preaching whatever ^^ Then may I ask you what credentials you have that we should trust your evaluations of his mental state and why he happened to perform poorly? Or are you speculating just like everyone else? It seems like between everyone all we have are opinions, myself included. These kinds of heavy tournaments test your nerves, preparation, and mental state as much as they do skill. All I know is two people showed up, one seemed far more prepared and focused, and proceeded to outplay the other with the utmost precision and finality, and walked away with the gold. | ||
prech
United States2948 Posts
 hero definitely peaked at the right time, as our TL writers have recapped in their terrific previews, and put on a terrific display at the finals...At the same time, I think it's hard to discount, like many have said, that  Bisu played uncharacteristically poorly and was far from what we typically see of him. Even in ladder/sponsored games against hero, I must have watched them play each other 10-20x a month for the past however months, and Bisu has, often by a large margin, dominated their games. That direct history, coupled with PvZ being Bisu's strongest match-up, made it particularly surprising to see the 3-0 result.Agreed that Bisu was not perfect in his SF series against  Mind, but in my eyes, that's about what I expected in the PvT series, his weakest match-up. Against hero, on the other hand, it's a completely different matter. Thinking about a hypothetical 3-0 victory for Bisu over hero at the finals, I honestly would not have been particularly surprised if that had been the case...That's how dominant Bisu has been during their online series the past several months.Who knows what happened to prompt the overwhelming underachievement? On one given day, anything can and could have happened... I'd like to think Bisu had been preparing quite a bit for this finals. Having regularly followed Bisu's streams, I don't think I saw him stream for more than one or two days in the weeks leading up to the finals. I'm sure he recognized the magnitude of the opportunity and what a career achievement it could have been, so presumably had been practicing offline, giving up many opportunities of prime balloon-earning in the process... Additionally, several fans on Ygosu reported that ZerO and EffOrt had both mentioned in their respective streams that they had acted as sparring partners for Bisu in preparation for the finals, which makes it all the more surprising that Bisu performed the way he did.Such is life. On any given Sunday... | ||
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Stratos
Czech Republic6104 Posts
On September 01 2015 16:52 feckless wrote: Then may I ask you what credentials you have that we should trust your evaluations of his mental state and why he happened to perform poorly? Or are you speculating just like everyone else? It seems like between everyone all we have are opinions, myself included. These kinds of heavy tournaments test your nerves, preparation, and mental state as much as they do skill. All I know is two people showed up, one seemed far more prepared and focused, and proceeded to outplay the other with the utmost precision and finality, and walked away with the gold. I'm merely speculating as anyone else. I just don't like it when anyone in the discussion starts presenting their opinions based on very limited observations as facts, like Probemicro is doing. | ||
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