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Hong Kong20321 Posts
On November 03 2006 05:27 zulu_nation8 wrote:
And to back up my case, watch midas vs cobo on azalea. That was same build anytime did minus robo and ob and with a proxy gate. Which means, anytime's build was a loooooooooooot slower since he actually had to get the observer out. Yet when Cobo got to Midas' base Midas' siege was almost done, just like last game when anytime was at Midas' base. Except anytime got to midas' base certainly later than cobo. wtf happened?
i haven't seen the cobo game, but maybe midas researched siege instea dof mines that game? ;o
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Hong Kong20321 Posts
lol poor midas sitting in an empty stadium (whatever u call it..) again= .=
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On November 03 2006 05:31 zulu_nation8 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2006 05:25 Sabbath wrote:On November 03 2006 04:32 zulu_nation8 wrote:On November 03 2006 04:18 zulu_nation8 wrote:On November 03 2006 04:16 HonestTea wrote:
1. Midas saw the gates. But what was he going to do? He had already invested in FD (1-fac, mines first, late siege) when what he needed was two-fac tanks with seige.
better placed mines, more mines, cancel cc, build 2 rines, bunker on ramp, scv blocking, build cc in base and he still wouldve been up. is there a respectable terran player here that can comment on this. I do not believe that midas saw his gates and didn't do anything about it. Something feels wrong i believe that not losing 6 marines and a vulture like a moron would have helped, at least he then could have built a bunker at his nat, 4-rine bunker+2 tanks+scvs > goons after losing those units it was pretty hard to stop those goons and even if he stopped them, shuttle + 4 zealot would follow if he didn't lose the 6 rines and vulture he wouldn't have seen anytime's base let alone prepare for the rush. I don't think you can expand and defend a 1 base 4 gate bulldog and i'm sure midas knows that too so he would've used the ramp to help.
Well he would have had at least one bunker, 2/3 tanks and spider mines layed by his first 1/2 vults (some of them near the bunker), which is I think enough to defend vs any kind of rush (maybe with scvs help). Anytime had to wait for obs so his attack probably didn't happen that early either.
And not moving out doesn't mean you can't scout, it's harder but you can at least check the goons count with your first vults and try to sneak one (or a scv) into the P's main.
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midas deserved a finals spot T.t
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Last post before bed. Maybe I haven't tvped in a long time, maybe i'm tired and didn't watch the games carefully, maybe i'm overanalyzing, maybe i missed something that was very important. But from what I saw, the timing just does, not, work, out. When the vod comes out I'm gonna test the two builds and see for myself. But if it doesn't work out, then there's about a 10-20 second gap in which midas was not doing anything at all which is just unexplainable. I'm really not usually the conspiracy theorist type but I have a more than vague feeling that, with the wandering not aiming at carriers goliaths from game 4 and the weird timing in game 5, this might've been staged. But I know that Midas chokes and chokes hard, so my rational feeling is that Midas just chokes a lot. So hopefully after the vod comes out I can get a better answer. Until then, good series and good night.
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Hong Kong20321 Posts
On November 03 2006 05:40 zulu_nation8 wrote:
Last post before bed. Maybe I haven't tvped in a long time, maybe i'm tired and didn't watch the games carefully, maybe i'm overanalyzing, maybe i missed something that was very important. But from what I saw, the timing just does, not, work, out. When the vod comes out I'm gonna test the two builds and see for myself. But if it doesn't work out, then there's about a 10-20 second gap in which midas was not doing anything at all which is just unexplainable. I'm really not usually the conspiracy theorist type but I have a more than vague feeling that, with the wandering not aiming at carriers goliaths from game 4 and the weird timing in game 5, this might've been staged. But I know that Midas chokes and chokes hard, so my rational feeling is that Midas just chokes a lot. So hopefully after the vod comes out I can get a better answer. Until then, good series and good night.
lol omg dont be so paranoid! :O
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On November 03 2006 05:37 alffla wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2006 05:27 zulu_nation8 wrote:
And to back up my case, watch midas vs cobo on azalea. That was same build anytime did minus robo and ob and with a proxy gate. Which means, anytime's build was a loooooooooooot slower since he actually had to get the observer out. Yet when Cobo got to Midas' base Midas' siege was almost done, just like last game when anytime was at Midas' base. Except anytime got to midas' base certainly later than cobo. wtf happened? i haven't seen the cobo game, but maybe midas researched siege instea dof mines that game? ;o
..... no it was exact same build, in other words the FD build that's been in discussion.
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Hong Kong20321 Posts
On November 03 2006 05:42 zulu_nation8 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2006 05:37 alffla wrote:On November 03 2006 05:27 zulu_nation8 wrote:
And to back up my case, watch midas vs cobo on azalea. That was same build anytime did minus robo and ob and with a proxy gate. Which means, anytime's build was a loooooooooooot slower since he actually had to get the observer out. Yet when Cobo got to Midas' base Midas' siege was almost done, just like last game when anytime was at Midas' base. Except anytime got to midas' base certainly later than cobo. wtf happened? i haven't seen the cobo game, but maybe midas researched siege instea dof mines that game? ;o ..... no it was exact same build, in other words the FD build that's been in discussion.
ok nvm =. =sorry then go sleep now lol
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On November 03 2006 05:39 PoP wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2006 05:31 zulu_nation8 wrote:On November 03 2006 05:25 Sabbath wrote:On November 03 2006 04:32 zulu_nation8 wrote:On November 03 2006 04:18 zulu_nation8 wrote:On November 03 2006 04:16 HonestTea wrote:
1. Midas saw the gates. But what was he going to do? He had already invested in FD (1-fac, mines first, late siege) when what he needed was two-fac tanks with seige.
better placed mines, more mines, cancel cc, build 2 rines, bunker on ramp, scv blocking, build cc in base and he still wouldve been up. is there a respectable terran player here that can comment on this. I do not believe that midas saw his gates and didn't do anything about it. Something feels wrong i believe that not losing 6 marines and a vulture like a moron would have helped, at least he then could have built a bunker at his nat, 4-rine bunker+2 tanks+scvs > goons after losing those units it was pretty hard to stop those goons and even if he stopped them, shuttle + 4 zealot would follow if he didn't lose the 6 rines and vulture he wouldn't have seen anytime's base let alone prepare for the rush. I don't think you can expand and defend a 1 base 4 gate bulldog and i'm sure midas knows that too so he would've used the ramp to help. Well he would have had at least one bunker, 2/3 tanks and spider mines layed by his first 1/2 vults (some of them near the bunker), which is I think enough to defend vs any kind of rush (maybe with scvs help). Anytime had to wait for obs so his attack probably didn't happen that early either. And not moving out doesn't mean you can't scout, it's harder but you can at least check the goons count with your first vults and try to sneak one (or a scv) into the P's main.
The point of FD is to see something that'll have you better prepared for midgame and also of course expoing at the same time. Losing 6 rines was 100% worth it to see the inside of anytime's base. If he didn't then it could've been dt or reaver or 1 gate expo or 3/4 gate rush or 3/4 gate rush with obs. Would you rather keep 3 rines and your tank and go back rather than getting inside and see how many gates there are? If midas wanted to turtle and just expo fast he could've researched siege right away and not bothered with mines or vults or even marines. But the point of FD is to push toss back and maybe gain some type of intelligence. There's no point to build rines, tank, vult, research mines then not come out. It would defeat the purpose of the build. And you can't just sneak an scv in or scout with your vult, it just doesnt work like that. It wouldn't work in any other situation and in that game, anytime had 3 goons blocking the min only entrance so nothing short of a gundam would've gotten by.
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Why would midas have thrown the games? Are you going to provide an explanation?
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I just disagree.
Going mines first while not moving out is still very good vs DTs or any kind of rush. Upgrading siege right after, while your nat CC is being built, is the logical next move.
You've got a bunker full of marines, you've planted 6ish spider mines, you've got a few tanks with siege and SCVs mining just next to your bunker and ready to repair it/help defend if necessary. It's a really safe and effective version of the FD build to me, even though I've only seen Nada do it (mostly last year, when he was sucking at everything but TvP). Of course you can also move out but I think it's better to do so only if you could scout with a SCV early and see no 2nd gate/a late one.
Anyway I definitely can't see how losing 375 minerals (6 marines + 1 vult) to scout is worthwhile. If you can kill one, preferably two goons, it's OK, otherwise it clearly sucks imho.
Oh and I'd like to add that 2 facs is totally underrated and I love GF's TvP for that reason. Midas needs to add some variety to his BOs (and not only in TvPs), because he's really really way too predictable.
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MaTRiX[SiN]
Sweden1282 Posts
fd is just a very fragile strategy, if you miss your timing by even a little you get stomped on by tons of different builds.
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when is the final taking place?
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Bleh, GJ Anytime.
PvT is so much better to watch than TvT.
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On November 03 2006 06:05 PoP wrote:
I just disagree.
Going mines first while not moving out is still very good vs DTs or any kind of rush. Upgrading siege right after, while your nat CC is being built, is the logical next move.
ok i lied not last post :p. You have to think in the way that every build has a purpose, why expand later when you can expand sooner, you expand later cuz you want to gain in some other area or you want to have more control early on in sacrifice of economy. 4-6 rines = 200 to 300 min + vult = another 75 min + mine research = 100 more minerals, why spend all that when you can, perfectly safe, expand with one tank and maybe 2-3 rines less? DT's don't can still be stopped by mine and turret regardless if you come out or not.
On November 03 2006 06:05 PoP wrote:
Anyway I definitely can't see how losing 375 minerals (6 marines + 1 vult) to scout is worthwhile. If you can kill one, preferably two goons, it's OK, otherwise it clearly sucks imho.
Of course he would've liked to kill 1-2 goons, but it really doesn't matter. I think losing all your gundam force for seeing anytime's base in game 5 of the OSL semi-finals is a no-brainer, gundam armies get destroyed pretty often.
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Just seen the vod now, bit of luck involved with AnyTime because 3 of his 4 goons were in the red, those small things play a major role in deciding the winner imo.
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Dissapointing=[
I hate this legend of fall crap!
Although it does make for a better final.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://image.fighterforum.com/showImage.asp?realFile=FFPHOT20061103220653001.JPEG)
![[image loading]](http://image.fighterforum.com/showImage.asp?realFile=FFPHOT20061103220652011.JPEG)
