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Stork's PvZ is badly underrated IMO. His record says "slouch" but here you have to take the statistics with a grain of salt because a.) he's lost a lot of games to top players (8 games played vs Chojja, 6 losses, 3 losses to July and 4 games played with 3 losses to Yellow earlier in his career, a game against Savior as you mentioned, a win over Yellow[arnc], a win over Gorush 1-1 with Silver, 1-2 against Jju and so forth) and b.) the quality of the games he has played. He plays solid, win or lose. With some of the razor's edge games he has (like vs CHojja on Azalea), he just needs to learn to find that extra little bit that will drive him over the edge. Anytime by contrast either makes it look elegant or makes it look ugly. I also think he's had some luck recently with being able to win games he shouldn't, and not just in PvZ either. I really don't think he deserved that win over Casy on Arcadia during the group stages. Casy just has unusually weak macro for an S-class progamer and Anytime was able to stall by mass suiciding units. I like when a player is in such control that they can keep the pressure up non-stop (Savior vs Kingdom game 2, this MSL), but Anytime reminded me of someone slamming his head into a wall until the wall breaks. Not pretty.
When Anytime first went big I really liked him, but he's too hit-or-miss for me and I don't like the bandwagon train behind him since I feel he hasn't earned it yet. I can tolerate the Ra and Reach fanboys without thinking less of those players since those guys did TONS to save Protoss during the low point of professional Protoss gaming, and I have great respect for their consistency.
I voted for Anytime to beat Gorush tomorrow, but I hope Gorush takes it from him. I'd rather see Gorush move on then see Anytime move on.
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if GoRush copied mumyung's style he'll do well cos mumyung's ZvP is really strong, he's suck a lurker fag.
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Did you know -_-;;
NO Gorush 
Midas T.T
YEH Nada
idc gf and rock
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Just to get a quick word in. I don't think Casy is really S-Class because his TvP is REALLY weak. Besides, that, TvT and TvZ, he could definately be an S-Class.
Also, Anytime's wins this season only seem to make the zerg look stupid because they failed. His games vs GGPlay and GoRush so far lead me to believe he is definately the best PvZ out here with Ra atm. If Kingdom actually showed us what he is actually capable of vs Silver I dunno.. but Kingdom's latest showing was such a T.T
Stork, we'd love to see him back but his PL showing has been lackluster and man.. his individual league performances have a long way to come.
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MaTRiX[SiN]
Sweden1282 Posts
so anytime makes his opponents look like piece of shit players and u're saying that shows how bad anytime is? your arguments only get worse stop the anytime hating allready, he has way less fanboys than he deserves.
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On October 26 2006 07:29 MaTRiX[SiN] wrote:so anytime makes his opponents look like piece of shit players and u're saying that shows how bad anytime is? your arguments only get worse stop the anytime hating allready, he has way less fanboys than he deserves.
Yarr. Wise words from a true corsair! You go for the overlords and I hunt down the drones!
Anytime fighting!
But more seriously then since this turned into something of a debate:
It takes TWO good players to make an epic game. If one player does not fit the part, the game will not stand out as much. The reason Gorush ZvP is renowned is that that he doesn't kill off tosses well in the early part of the game, and instead sits back and hope to overrun the toss with mass lategame. This allows both players to strut their stuff with high tech units and lots of battles and spells etc. His track record for these long running games is not that great actually, I'd wager about 50-50, but he does show some really nice fun play against corsair-reaver-carrier toss.
To conclude, long games with lots of action stick on peoples mind.
What makes anytime great is his huge balls! Basically he's the most macho player out there right now, going very hardcore and also succeding owning his opponents with great builds, execution and micro, and not a shabby macro at all to boot. People may argue that going for more conservative play is a sign of strength, but anytime (like reach) seem to prefer hectic and aggressive games (at least if it's initiated by themselves with a particular build).
So if he owns the other guy so badly that he doesn't know what to do, it sort of takes some gloss of the victory, but I don't really mind. It's not like people mind when Boxer does it?
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On October 26 2006 01:27 Mortality wrote:
Anytime by contrast either makes it look elegant or makes it look ugly. I also think he's had some luck recently with being able to win games he shouldn't, and not just in PvZ either. I really don't think he deserved that win over Casy on Arcadia during the group stages. Casy just has unusually weak macro for an S-class progamer and Anytime was able to stall by mass suiciding units. I like when a player is in such control that they can keep the pressure up non-stop (Savior vs Kingdom game 2, this MSL), but Anytime reminded me of someone slamming his head into a wall until the wall breaks. Not pretty.
So basically, you're saying Anytime was just lucky that Casy sucked hard that day?
I think you're biased, because Casy has a pretty shitty tvp so it was really no surprises he lost that game. Anyway, you call Casy an "S class pro", well one of the best pro atm, but i don't agree, he won his osl abusing his excellent tvz. Silver is given a chance to win a msl that was full of excellent players, yet would you call him an s class pro?
Anytime is not the best player in the world, he doesn't have an astounding mu where he's unstoppable, but he's more than a decent player. i'd say he would consistently destroy Casy, he won 2 bo5 against oov and boxer and he proved to be quite capable in pvz and pvp. His ratio is so-so? well you said yourself you have to be careful with ratio when talking about Stork.
You can always talk about the way his games look like, that's not a point where one can be objective, some will think he's using too much stupid do or die strats, some will think is a genius.
I don't really like Anytime, but i respect his play and i consider him completely able to win this osl.
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On October 26 2006 07:29 MaTRiX[SiN] wrote:so anytime makes his opponents look like piece of shit players and u're saying that shows how bad anytime is? your arguments only get worse stop the anytime hating allready, he has way less fanboys than he deserves.
Christ dude, did you actually read what I wrote? Let me reiterate: Anytime either wins with an elegant strategy and strong control or he makes it look terribly ugly. When he loses he makes it look ugly and even quite often when he wins he makes it look ugly. He's nowhere near consistent at "making his opponents look like piece of shit players" as you expect a true champion to be.
Sun Tzu said "What the ancients called a clever warrior is one who not only wins, but excels at winning with ease." Savior is a clever warrior. Oov is a clever warrior. Those guys make it look easy. Anytime is not a clever warrior since most of the time he makes it look ugly. Capiche?
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On October 26 2006 10:00 ~chut~ wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2006 01:27 Mortality wrote:
Anytime by contrast either makes it look elegant or makes it look ugly. I also think he's had some luck recently with being able to win games he shouldn't, and not just in PvZ either. I really don't think he deserved that win over Casy on Arcadia during the group stages. Casy just has unusually weak macro for an S-class progamer and Anytime was able to stall by mass suiciding units. I like when a player is in such control that they can keep the pressure up non-stop (Savior vs Kingdom game 2, this MSL), but Anytime reminded me of someone slamming his head into a wall until the wall breaks. Not pretty.
So basically, you're saying Anytime was just lucky that Casy sucked hard that day? I think you're biased, because Casy has a pretty shitty tvp so it was really no surprises he lost that game. Anyway, you call Casy an "S class pro", well one of the best pro atm, but i don't agree, he won his osl abusing his excellent tvz. Silver is given a chance to win a msl that was full of excellent players, yet would you call him an s class pro? Anytime is not the best player in the world, he doesn't have an astounding mu where he's unstoppable, but he's more than a decent player. i'd say he would consistently destroy Casy, he won 2 bo5 against oov and boxer and he proved to be quite capable in pvz and pvp. His ratio is so-so? well you said yourself you have to be careful with ratio when talking about Stork. You can always talk about the way his games look like, that's not a point where one can be objective, some will think he's using too much stupid do or die strats, some will think is a genius. I don't really like Anytime, but i respect his play and i consider him completely able to win this osl.
The only matchup where the statistics don't fully explain his ability is PvT, in which he has faced a number of top gamers but not a list quite so exclusively of top gamers as Stork has had the bad luck of playing.
My point about the game with Casy was that Anytime did not dominate it as one would expect when placing a player with weak macro (Casy) on a macro map against somebody known as a macro toss.
I really don't think there's any justification in rating Anytime over guys like Rock (who has consistently appeared in starleagues for quite some time now) or Pusan (who hasn't won but has made multiple top 4 appearances and done a better job qualifying for individual leagus), and I don't see him as being as talented as Reach or even Daezang (who has shown us he has the skills but hasn't managed to put up any big results with them yet) and Kingdom and Ra are just flat more dominant. And don't give Kingdom shit about having bad PvZ since he just faced two huge ZvP monsters back-to-back. His lifetime win percentage against Zerg is much more indicative of his PvZ skill with 55% wins and just as good if not a better list of Zergs he has toppled than Anytime has.
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MaTRiX[SiN]
Sweden1282 Posts
On October 26 2006 11:10 Mortality wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2006 07:29 MaTRiX[SiN] wrote:so anytime makes his opponents look like piece of shit players and u're saying that shows how bad anytime is? your arguments only get worse stop the anytime hating allready, he has way less fanboys than he deserves. Christ dude, did you actually read what I wrote? Let me reiterate: Anytime either wins with an elegant strategy and strong control or he makes it look terribly ugly. When he loses he makes it look ugly and even quite often when he wins he makes it look ugly. He's nowhere near consistent at "making his opponents look like piece of shit players" as you expect a true champion to be. Sun Tzu said "What the ancients called a clever warrior is one who not only wins, but excels at winning with ease." Savior is a clever warrior. Oov is a clever warrior. Those guys make it look easy. Anytime is not a clever warrior since most of the time he makes it look ugly. Capiche? guess I read to much into "makes it look ugly" dunno what else to make of it tho honestly. talking about consistency there arent really a lot of protoss players with more achievements than anytime, there's like 5-6 tops? I don't keep track of players overall winning ratio but iirc most of them(the famous ones) lie somewhere around 60%~
On October 26 2006 07:27 SuperJongMan wrote:
Also, Anytime's wins this season only seem to make the zerg look stupid because they failed. His games vs GGPlay and GoRush so far lead me to believe he is definately the best PvZ out here with Ra atm. that's what I thougt you meant by making it look ugly, making it look as if it's the zerg failing when it's him dominating. when he beat july (who everyone said was unbeatable zvp remember?) people immediately started saying july played shitty/not seriously(lol). he just gets so many undeserved negative reactions whenever he wins. I dont get where you get the " I don't like the bandwagon train behind him since I feel he hasn't earned it yet" what bandwagon ? QQ
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looks like Midas is having personal problems, From "flawless terran" he has gone to "everyone beat me" terran. testie , cobo, draco , july, now iris....
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Australia4514 Posts
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right after he got 2nd in an OSL iirc
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On October 26 2006 11:25 Mortality wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2006 10:00 ~chut~ wrote:On October 26 2006 01:27 Mortality wrote:
Anytime by contrast either makes it look elegant or makes it look ugly. I also think he's had some luck recently with being able to win games he shouldn't, and not just in PvZ either. I really don't think he deserved that win over Casy on Arcadia during the group stages. Casy just has unusually weak macro for an S-class progamer and Anytime was able to stall by mass suiciding units. I like when a player is in such control that they can keep the pressure up non-stop (Savior vs Kingdom game 2, this MSL), but Anytime reminded me of someone slamming his head into a wall until the wall breaks. Not pretty.
So basically, you're saying Anytime was just lucky that Casy sucked hard that day? I think you're biased, because Casy has a pretty shitty tvp so it was really no surprises he lost that game. Anyway, you call Casy an "S class pro", well one of the best pro atm, but i don't agree, he won his osl abusing his excellent tvz. Silver is given a chance to win a msl that was full of excellent players, yet would you call him an s class pro? Anytime is not the best player in the world, he doesn't have an astounding mu where he's unstoppable, but he's more than a decent player. i'd say he would consistently destroy Casy, he won 2 bo5 against oov and boxer and he proved to be quite capable in pvz and pvp. His ratio is so-so? well you said yourself you have to be careful with ratio when talking about Stork. You can always talk about the way his games look like, that's not a point where one can be objective, some will think he's using too much stupid do or die strats, some will think is a genius. I don't really like Anytime, but i respect his play and i consider him completely able to win this osl. The only matchup where the statistics don't fully explain his ability is PvT, in which he has faced a number of top gamers but not a list quite so exclusively of top gamers as Stork has had the bad luck of playing. My point about the game with Casy was that Anytime did not dominate it as one would expect when placing a player with weak macro (Casy) on a macro map against somebody known as a macro toss. I really don't think there's any justification in rating Anytime over guys like Rock (who has consistently appeared in starleagues for quite some time now) or Pusan (who hasn't won but has made multiple top 4 appearances and done a better job qualifying for individual leagus), and I don't see him as being as talented as Reach or even Daezang (who has shown us he has the skills but hasn't managed to put up any big results with them yet) and Kingdom and Ra are just flat more dominant. And don't give Kingdom shit about having bad PvZ since he just faced two huge ZvP monsters back-to-back. His lifetime win percentage against Zerg is much more indicative of his PvZ skill with 55% wins and just as good if not a better list of Zergs he has toppled than Anytime has.
I don't see Anytime as a macro player. He's no Pusan, i think of him more as a strategic player, i remember more his dts against Yellow or double robo against oov.
I wouldn't exactly rate him over Stork as i also expect Stork to show a lot, but Rock, Pusan? Rock has one strat pvt (go carriers as fast as you can), consistently make it to osl but never really make it big. He might proove me wrong this time, but he never went trough ro8. Pusan is a choker, he's a fun player to watch, but he's the Junwi of protoss. Yes he qualified to probably more osl and msl than Anytime, but you have to consider the osl slump too.
Daezang has yeet to show what he can do. People got excited because he "almost" won against Savior. That's not an accomplishment.
I don't compare Anytime to old school tosses either, they proved a lot, consistently over the years. But among new tosses, he is the most accomplished and i don't see any reason to say he's less skilled than any of them.
He's doing a great osl, he was in the group of death, he faced an in-form GGplay, coming with an insane win ratio and he's doing well against Gorush now. What do you want him to do to show he's good?
And i'm not really saying this as an Anytime fanboy, i'd much prefer to see Gorush qualify, i like him a lot and i'd like him to win an osl =)
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On October 26 2006 12:07 lightman wrote:
looks like Midas is having personal problems, From "flawless terran" he has gone to "everyone beat me" terran. testie , cobo, draco , july, now iris....
iris is fucking great
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Rock's First person looks so slow, even slower than sAviOr
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Anytime's play this OSL is reminding me of the one he won (SO1 was it?) where EVERY single game was so much fun to watch.
And I agree with Mortality about his game vs. Casy. If you actually bother to watch that game, Casy had a huge advantage. I dunno what happened, but Anytime somehow came back by throwing away army after army. Casy was in such a dominant position and pretty much threw away the game. It was still a fun game to watch, hehe
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thedeadhaji
39489 Posts
On October 26 2006 12:25 Legionnaire wrote:
When did GF join KTF ?
after ever 2005 OSL.
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EPT
