EPT[NEWS] Kosiro claims that he didn't cheat - Page 11
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zulu_nation8
China26351 Posts
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OneOther
United States10774 Posts
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ManaBlue
Canada10458 Posts
On September 24 2006 23:23 zulu_nation8 wrote: is he apologizing for losing or using a sub? He doesn't specify obviously, so no one can answer that for you. You read it. You can take a look at the evidence and decide for yourself, but clearly this statement isn't an outright admission of cheating. | ||
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decafchicken
United States20102 Posts
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zulu_nation8
China26351 Posts
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a-game
Canada5085 Posts
not nearly enough research was done, after reading nony's points and kosiro's own words it would take dozens of replays to make any judgement here. i see no reason to not give him the benefit of the doubt, and if people want they can search through dozens of his replays in the meantime to continue the case. as it is now, the case is extremely fuzzy. i hope people like nazgul have read this thread through and will make a reconsideration of this whole thing. | ||
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zulu_nation8
China26351 Posts
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LibertyTerran
Vietnam711 Posts
After 32070808 pages of dicussion and these cheaters didn't admit eventhough we showed them a buch of convincing proof from BWChart. Until someone actually saw those mother fuckers cheated and revealed them to us, it was actually vip_medusa play for deathmask in match 1 and 3. And those mother fuckers (vip_medusa and deathmask) then were banned permanently from any online tournament afterward. Back to this topic, from the replays 1 and 3 of the match between draco and kosiro, I say that the person played match 1 is not the same person played match 3. I dont care who they really were, but for god's sake, ban those mother fuckers permanenlty plz.( Those who claimed that APM and hotkey pattern can be changed significantly in such a short time are just totally fucking SC-n00b, yes you are, so just accept it). I hate this kinda cheating, I really do. Peace. | ||
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OhThatDang
United States4685 Posts
"cheater terran/zerg/protoss number 2" most of the ones that want to believe is mainly because kosiro is good and we need someone whos good | ||
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RoyCe
United States179 Posts
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karelen
Sweden2407 Posts
ps. i love bw drama | ||
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urban_attack
Poland88 Posts
On September 24 2006 19:54 Draco wrote: As I know keke is member of Sandlot too and he was playing his games this time. If i understand correctly, keke played his sandlot games at the same time of draco vs kosiro games ? Then that i think excludes keke from suspicion. | ||
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polarwolf
924 Posts
"He rushed from the PC Bang to the P&C-Headquaters..." why didn't he play in the headquaters from the beginning? | ||
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zulu_nation8
China26351 Posts
On September 24 2006 18:43 NonY wrote: [removed quote within quote] That is only one way to look at the analysis and it's biased. The initial analysis was short-sighted as I have already pointed out. One doesn't need to look any farther than the other player in the very same replays. Draco hotkeys radically differently in the two games but it's easily explanable by examining the actions in the game (1gate and fast expansion). Draco doesn't hotkey anything for about 40 seconds. After that it's always 1 probe, 2 probe On September 24 2006 18:43 NonY wrote: The only things unexplainable are the initial hotkeying and spamming, which incidentally are the least influential actions in the entire game. that's why they're the most convincing. Because there is no need to change them. On September 24 2006 18:43 NonY wrote: I believe the burden is on the accusers to explain why it is in Kosiro's strong interest to never stray from the pattern used in game 1. Of course they avoid this and only say that it's uncommon for players to do different actions even when they're insignificant. His hotkey patterns for the first 30 seconds from game 1 are completely different from game 3. Why would you change your actions if they're insignificant. Are you saying the first 30 (roughly) seconds of a game is the time where hotkeys matter the least? That's exact opposite of what hotkey "fingerprinting" is. On September 24 2006 18:43 NonY wrote: What it boils down to, then, is kosiro's word against the opinion that players are unlikely to change the insignificant beginning actions of a game. Seeing as how the opinion hasn't been supported by anything more than personal testimony and samples of replays so small that they're irrelevant, I'm inclined to have trust. The sample of replays are small yes, but the testimonies are from people that have credibility like romad. The premise is that the sample of replays, although small, is enough to convince people. I have 12 replays of Kosiro, all hotkeys are the same, so im convinced personally. I'll upload the pack. On September 24 2006 18:43 NonY wrote: That said, I don't believe that it's impossible to sufficiently support the claims of the replay analysts. I believe they made some mistakes in trying to find differences in their play in any part of the replay except for the first 30 seconds. First 30 seconds are extreeemely easy to identify and distinct, after that it gets fuzzy for the reasons you stated. Different build orders, combination of units, game situations, etc. On September 24 2006 18:43 NonY wrote: However I think a case can be made of that first 30 seconds if they proved that players unconditionally do nearly the exact same actions at the beginning of every game, even when the actions are completely insignificant for the remainder of the game. And yes I think that'd take a bit of work but I believe you are obligated to a bit of work before you call someone a cheat and a liar. And beside that, any work done now could continue to be used in cases beyond kosiro. The only thing we can do is infer from as many replays as possible to set up the premise that, "all experienced starcraft players should have identical hotkeys in similar matchups excluding special circumstances". But thing is that even I agree that may not be true, but however it certainly is for i'd say 95% of the time. And i think assuming that, and draco's, uhjoo's version of what happened. I'd hope it's beyond doubt for most people that.......... kosiro[shield] did not play game 3 vs Draco. Also nony I know you probably don't use bwchart often since you have like 67800 apm, but I checked all the replays i had of you, you always do 1 nexus, 1 probe, then 5 probe although slightly less often. As I stated earlier, that's a definite pattern, and as definite as we can fingerprint someone in starcraft with. And with kosiro being zerg it's even more certain since zerg has more stuff to hotkey in the beginning. Anyways hopefully everyone can take the time and read this, I think i've covered everything about the hotkey thing. bye | ||
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Ilikestarcraft
Korea (South)17733 Posts
THe fact that the person went all-in is funny in all 3 games. It means either whoever wanted to play wanted to get it over fast. Your hotkey setup can change though. Like if the keyboard is larger you might hotkey 2 but think its 1 cause you dont look down and muscle memory just says its there. If the thing is already solved than this is useless and Midian's post makes it seem firefist did play but there isnt any really solid proof or evidence unless someone in pantech saw the thing himself. I dont know innocent till proven guilty/ edit. he apologized -_-;; im really slow | ||
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a-game
Canada5085 Posts
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superjoppe
Sweden3685 Posts
And if I was in bad shape, I'd do all-in strategies when I came back home too. I believe Kosiro and I think its funny that someone else just claimed it wasnt him without no proof. | ||
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~chut~
France1317 Posts
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Zeto
United States2290 Posts
obviously the whole hotkey thing isn't enough. i mean, of course there's SOME strange chance that kosiro decided to spam different hotkeys during the beginning of the game. Let's not forget Draco, a player none of us will likely surpass, saying he was suspicious. Midian, also a very good player, also believes it was two different players. i put my faith in these expert witnesses moreso than you people buying a simple cover-up story. edit: and that wasn't an apology for cheating. | ||
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zulu_nation8
China26351 Posts
http://www.sendspace.com/file/99jzs2 12 replays of kosiro except for the game3 vs draco. Every matchup, every map, over the course of a year, he starts his games with 1, 0, then 3, now look at game 3 vs draco. Should've posted this earlier instead of just saying o i saw the reps and blah blah | ||
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