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Maybe we can let this map in if we make a rule that Terran isn't allowed to make siege tanks on it.
fuck, wasted my 6k post
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LMaster maybe you should encourage all the sGs members that are usually active to take part in this league.
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On February 28 2013 22:04 t0ssboy wrote:
i Rather have Gemlong instead of pamir plateu.
Seconded. Gemlong actually plays out reasonably and the mains aren't joke city.
Poll: Gemlong or Pamir Plateau?Gemlong (11) 92% Pamir Plateau (1) 8% 12 total votes Your vote: Gemlong or Pamir Plateau? (Vote): Gemlong
(Vote): Pamir Plateau
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You Terrans have no shame. =P
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LMaster already said it's going to be Resonance II and Gemlong, no need to argue about something that isn't happening to the best of my knowledge.
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On March 01 2013 03:57 Birdie wrote:
LMaster already said it's going to be Resonance II and Gemlong, no need to argue about something that isn't happening to the best of my knowledge.
Oh oops ><;
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On February 28 2013 14:51 Jealous wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2013 12:34 Nagisama wrote:On February 28 2013 10:31 L_Master wrote:On February 28 2013 08:32 amazingxkcd wrote:On February 28 2013 08:20 SynC[gm] wrote:On February 28 2013 08:15 Sentenal wrote:On February 28 2013 08:14 Psyonic_Reaver wrote:
I agree on using some 2007 - 2010 maps but only the balanced ones. Rotating pool would be cool. Rush Hour 3 IMHO =p I thought you said only the balanced onces The "=p" was probably the part where he was joking... But yeah, I do agree that maps like Fighting Spirit should be removed. It might be a rather balanced map in terms of natural matchup advantages, where P>T>Z>P, but it hardly shows any innovative play that might inspire other players to go for... Maps like Tau Cross, Andromeda, and Triathlon... Heck, why not add some BMWN, like Gemlong or Resonance? Im advocating for the BMWN maps to be used. Two of the BWMN maps are being used, the two that were added to the ICCup mappack. Outsider and Destination were removed. I thought I posted that about a week ago...maybe it didn't go through. Which 2? Too lazy to sift through which 2 you added. ICCup added 3 maps which were from BMWN. On February 28 2013 12:33 Jealous wrote:On February 28 2013 12:15 SynC[gm] wrote:On February 28 2013 11:35 Jealous wrote:On February 28 2013 09:49 Jealous wrote:These are two of our new additions to Sun Kan, I am posting this more for my benefit than any official purpose, so I can keep track easier.  ImAtTheBeach (D+)  v  , v  , v KingGeedorah (D+) EDIT: They don't have TL accounts, but I am friends with them on FB so I can stay in touch easily. ImAtTheBeach (D+) v , v , v KingGeedorah (D+) NewJetCity (D+) EDIT In case it wasn't clear (I saw someone update the LP), but sGs.XKCD (D) Is also back in the team but playing a different race this season. Don't mean to sound like an anal douche, but wouldn't it be simpler to say that KingGeedorah is that ZvT's? And aww yeah, Xkcd has found the true way to Terran... No more imba Zerg. Anyways, it looks like SunKan has 7 players, putting them at the "minimum" that we all set with 7. Thanks to BaBo, it looks like we have enough free agents to put every team at the 7 players we all want, plus a bit more... Maybe after every team reaches 8, teams are randomly selected to pick out the remaining free agents, or just leave it at the team with the least number of players filling up their teams will free agents? I also want to remind everyone that we are waiting on the additional player that thezanursic said might be joining our team, and we are awaiting an official ruling on puppykiller, because if he is allowed to play then because I've known him for a while I requested that he join our team and not participate in the draft as a player of no affiliation (he is also interested in joining our team). I do want to make it known on pebble's behalf that he is against having puppykiller in DRTL, but if he is accepted into DRTL is okay with having him on our team (pending a team vote). I think that the reason why puppykiller should be granted an exception while other players in similar situations have not is because he isn't just guesstimating his rank with his offrace, but has actually laddered a fair number of games and has posted results consistent with this league's requirements. Here is his ladder account in case you are interested: http://www.iccup.com/starcraft/gamingprofile/BigSandwich88.htmlIf I understand correctly, I think that his season 20 stats are from him playing Terran, but this was also a long time ago. I feel that combined with this evidence and the fact that other former high-rank players have been allowed based on current form and results, there isn't much of a reason to deny puppykiller entry into the league. Will await an official decision ofc. EDIT: Obviously if we collect puppykiller and potentially the other player, that will push Sun Kan a lot farther away from drafting possibilities, and I'm glad that the added players could help other teams pick up a sufficient amount of players. Rofl, the fact that pk even brushes with C- with his OFFRACE is enough for me to be against him joining. Artanis himself hasn't even hit C- with Z (his main race was P iirc) and he's already voluntarily taken himself off. But at the end of the day, if we ignore what someone's reputation is and just look at results, how are his stats any less acceptable than other players who brush C- in the league? o_O
To weigh myself, I think it would set a real bad precedent if puppykiller is let in the league. It would open the flood gate for higher leveled players entering with their off-race. And such a thing has already been voted down. Also amused at the "against him being in the league, but if he is allowed, we want him!" part.
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On February 28 2013 22:54 thezanursic wrote:
LMaster maybe you should encourage all the sGs members that are usually active to take part in this league.
If players are needed, there is still puppykiller who want to enter and play as zerg.
...though would say need some investigation about this skill and if there are problems for him to join, as he was higher than D+ some time ago...
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On March 01 2013 04:23 Sentenal wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2013 14:51 Jealous wrote:On February 28 2013 12:34 Nagisama wrote:On February 28 2013 10:31 L_Master wrote:On February 28 2013 08:32 amazingxkcd wrote:On February 28 2013 08:20 SynC[gm] wrote:On February 28 2013 08:15 Sentenal wrote:On February 28 2013 08:14 Psyonic_Reaver wrote:
I agree on using some 2007 - 2010 maps but only the balanced ones. Rotating pool would be cool. Rush Hour 3 IMHO =p I thought you said only the balanced onces The "=p" was probably the part where he was joking... But yeah, I do agree that maps like Fighting Spirit should be removed. It might be a rather balanced map in terms of natural matchup advantages, where P>T>Z>P, but it hardly shows any innovative play that might inspire other players to go for... Maps like Tau Cross, Andromeda, and Triathlon... Heck, why not add some BMWN, like Gemlong or Resonance? Im advocating for the BMWN maps to be used. Two of the BWMN maps are being used, the two that were added to the ICCup mappack. Outsider and Destination were removed. I thought I posted that about a week ago...maybe it didn't go through. Which 2? Too lazy to sift through which 2 you added. ICCup added 3 maps which were from BMWN. On February 28 2013 12:33 Jealous wrote:On February 28 2013 12:15 SynC[gm] wrote:On February 28 2013 11:35 Jealous wrote:On February 28 2013 09:49 Jealous wrote:These are two of our new additions to Sun Kan, I am posting this more for my benefit than any official purpose, so I can keep track easier. ImAtTheBeach (D+) v , v , v KingGeedorah (D+) EDIT: They don't have TL accounts, but I am friends with them on FB so I can stay in touch easily. ImAtTheBeach (D+) v , v , v KingGeedorah (D+) NewJetCity (D+) EDIT In case it wasn't clear (I saw someone update the LP), but sGs.XKCD (D) Is also back in the team but playing a different race this season. Don't mean to sound like an anal douche, but wouldn't it be simpler to say that KingGeedorah is that ZvT's? And aww yeah, Xkcd has found the true way to Terran... No more imba Zerg. Anyways, it looks like SunKan has 7 players, putting them at the "minimum" that we all set with 7. Thanks to BaBo, it looks like we have enough free agents to put every team at the 7 players we all want, plus a bit more... Maybe after every team reaches 8, teams are randomly selected to pick out the remaining free agents, or just leave it at the team with the least number of players filling up their teams will free agents? I also want to remind everyone that we are waiting on the additional player that thezanursic said might be joining our team, and we are awaiting an official ruling on puppykiller, because if he is allowed to play then because I've known him for a while I requested that he join our team and not participate in the draft as a player of no affiliation (he is also interested in joining our team). I do want to make it known on pebble's behalf that he is against having puppykiller in DRTL, but if he is accepted into DRTL is okay with having him on our team (pending a team vote). I think that the reason why puppykiller should be granted an exception while other players in similar situations have not is because he isn't just guesstimating his rank with his offrace, but has actually laddered a fair number of games and has posted results consistent with this league's requirements. Here is his ladder account in case you are interested: http://www.iccup.com/starcraft/gamingprofile/BigSandwich88.htmlIf I understand correctly, I think that his season 20 stats are from him playing Terran, but this was also a long time ago. I feel that combined with this evidence and the fact that other former high-rank players have been allowed based on current form and results, there isn't much of a reason to deny puppykiller entry into the league. Will await an official decision ofc. EDIT: Obviously if we collect puppykiller and potentially the other player, that will push Sun Kan a lot farther away from drafting possibilities, and I'm glad that the added players could help other teams pick up a sufficient amount of players. Rofl, the fact that pk even brushes with C- with his OFFRACE is enough for me to be against him joining. Artanis himself hasn't even hit C- with Z (his main race was P iirc) and he's already voluntarily taken himself off. But at the end of the day, if we ignore what someone's reputation is and just look at results, how are his stats any less acceptable than other players who brush C- in the league? o_O To weigh myself, I think it would set a real bad precedent if puppykiller is let in the league. It would open the flood gate for higher leveled players entering with their off-race. And such a thing has already been voted down. Also amused at the "against him being in the league, but if he is allowed, we want him!" part.
Like I explained earlier, there is a major difference between puppykiller and all other applicants who had been voted down in the past, namely that instead of just claiming their max rank to be so-and-so, he has laddered over 100 games and proven that his skill IS acceptable for the league, and he did this BEFORE he even applied for eligibility. That in my eyes is enough to serve as an exception to the precedent.
The "against him..." is honestly pebble being a good leader. His personal opinion is that he does not want puppykiller in the league, but as a team captain he made a compromise because I presented a strong case for him to be on our team given that we have a history, like other teams that picked up players who they knew IRL or through ICCup or otherwise. It wasn't done out of some sort of selfish desire to scoop up the best player.
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Canada4481 Posts
On March 01 2013 04:49 Jealous wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2013 04:23 Sentenal wrote:On February 28 2013 14:51 Jealous wrote:On February 28 2013 12:34 Nagisama wrote:On February 28 2013 10:31 L_Master wrote:On February 28 2013 08:32 amazingxkcd wrote:On February 28 2013 08:20 SynC[gm] wrote:On February 28 2013 08:15 Sentenal wrote:On February 28 2013 08:14 Psyonic_Reaver wrote:
I agree on using some 2007 - 2010 maps but only the balanced ones. Rotating pool would be cool. Rush Hour 3 IMHO =p I thought you said only the balanced onces The "=p" was probably the part where he was joking... But yeah, I do agree that maps like Fighting Spirit should be removed. It might be a rather balanced map in terms of natural matchup advantages, where P>T>Z>P, but it hardly shows any innovative play that might inspire other players to go for... Maps like Tau Cross, Andromeda, and Triathlon... Heck, why not add some BMWN, like Gemlong or Resonance? Im advocating for the BMWN maps to be used. Two of the BWMN maps are being used, the two that were added to the ICCup mappack. Outsider and Destination were removed. I thought I posted that about a week ago...maybe it didn't go through. Which 2? Too lazy to sift through which 2 you added. ICCup added 3 maps which were from BMWN. On February 28 2013 12:33 Jealous wrote:On February 28 2013 12:15 SynC[gm] wrote:On February 28 2013 11:35 Jealous wrote:On February 28 2013 09:49 Jealous wrote:These are two of our new additions to Sun Kan, I am posting this more for my benefit than any official purpose, so I can keep track easier. ImAtTheBeach (D+) v , v , v KingGeedorah (D+) EDIT: They don't have TL accounts, but I am friends with them on FB so I can stay in touch easily. ImAtTheBeach (D+) v , v , v KingGeedorah (D+) NewJetCity (D+) EDIT In case it wasn't clear (I saw someone update the LP), but sGs.XKCD (D) Is also back in the team but playing a different race this season. Don't mean to sound like an anal douche, but wouldn't it be simpler to say that KingGeedorah is that ZvT's? And aww yeah, Xkcd has found the true way to Terran... No more imba Zerg. Anyways, it looks like SunKan has 7 players, putting them at the "minimum" that we all set with 7. Thanks to BaBo, it looks like we have enough free agents to put every team at the 7 players we all want, plus a bit more... Maybe after every team reaches 8, teams are randomly selected to pick out the remaining free agents, or just leave it at the team with the least number of players filling up their teams will free agents? I also want to remind everyone that we are waiting on the additional player that thezanursic said might be joining our team, and we are awaiting an official ruling on puppykiller, because if he is allowed to play then because I've known him for a while I requested that he join our team and not participate in the draft as a player of no affiliation (he is also interested in joining our team). I do want to make it known on pebble's behalf that he is against having puppykiller in DRTL, but if he is accepted into DRTL is okay with having him on our team (pending a team vote). I think that the reason why puppykiller should be granted an exception while other players in similar situations have not is because he isn't just guesstimating his rank with his offrace, but has actually laddered a fair number of games and has posted results consistent with this league's requirements. Here is his ladder account in case you are interested: http://www.iccup.com/starcraft/gamingprofile/BigSandwich88.htmlIf I understand correctly, I think that his season 20 stats are from him playing Terran, but this was also a long time ago. I feel that combined with this evidence and the fact that other former high-rank players have been allowed based on current form and results, there isn't much of a reason to deny puppykiller entry into the league. Will await an official decision ofc. EDIT: Obviously if we collect puppykiller and potentially the other player, that will push Sun Kan a lot farther away from drafting possibilities, and I'm glad that the added players could help other teams pick up a sufficient amount of players. Rofl, the fact that pk even brushes with C- with his OFFRACE is enough for me to be against him joining. Artanis himself hasn't even hit C- with Z (his main race was P iirc) and he's already voluntarily taken himself off. But at the end of the day, if we ignore what someone's reputation is and just look at results, how are his stats any less acceptable than other players who brush C- in the league? o_O To weigh myself, I think it would set a real bad precedent if puppykiller is let in the league. It would open the flood gate for higher leveled players entering with their off-race. And such a thing has already been voted down. Also amused at the "against him being in the league, but if he is allowed, we want him!" part. Like I explained earlier, there is a major difference between puppykiller and all other applicants who had been voted down in the past, namely that instead of just claiming their max rank to be so-and-so, he has laddered over 100 games and proven that his skill IS acceptable for the league, and he did this BEFORE he even applied for eligibility. That in my eyes is enough to serve as an exception to the precedent. The "against him..." is honestly pebble being a good leader. His personal opinion is that he does not want puppykiller in the league, but as a team captain he made a compromise because I presented a strong case for him to be on our team given that we have a history, like other teams that picked up players who they knew IRL or through ICCup or otherwise. It wasn't done out of some sort of selfish desire to scoop up the best player.
So just because he "laddered 100 games" on his offrace and only stayed D+ (very high D+ and even hit C- mind you), he should be allowed in? Then all those we rejected simply have to ladder 100 games and show that they're D+ on their offrace. Like Sent said, that's opening the flood gates. Also, don't need to copy/paste the "anyone can hit C- argument" because while it's one thing to do on your main race, to do so again so easily with an offrace, just shows where the line should be drawn.
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On March 01 2013 05:07 Nagisama wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2013 04:49 Jealous wrote:On March 01 2013 04:23 Sentenal wrote:On February 28 2013 14:51 Jealous wrote:On February 28 2013 12:34 Nagisama wrote:On February 28 2013 10:31 L_Master wrote:On February 28 2013 08:32 amazingxkcd wrote:On February 28 2013 08:20 SynC[gm] wrote:On February 28 2013 08:15 Sentenal wrote:On February 28 2013 08:14 Psyonic_Reaver wrote:
I agree on using some 2007 - 2010 maps but only the balanced ones. Rotating pool would be cool. Rush Hour 3 IMHO =p I thought you said only the balanced onces The "=p" was probably the part where he was joking... But yeah, I do agree that maps like Fighting Spirit should be removed. It might be a rather balanced map in terms of natural matchup advantages, where P>T>Z>P, but it hardly shows any innovative play that might inspire other players to go for... Maps like Tau Cross, Andromeda, and Triathlon... Heck, why not add some BMWN, like Gemlong or Resonance? Im advocating for the BMWN maps to be used. Two of the BWMN maps are being used, the two that were added to the ICCup mappack. Outsider and Destination were removed. I thought I posted that about a week ago...maybe it didn't go through. Which 2? Too lazy to sift through which 2 you added. ICCup added 3 maps which were from BMWN. On February 28 2013 12:33 Jealous wrote:On February 28 2013 12:15 SynC[gm] wrote:On February 28 2013 11:35 Jealous wrote:On February 28 2013 09:49 Jealous wrote:These are two of our new additions to Sun Kan, I am posting this more for my benefit than any official purpose, so I can keep track easier. ImAtTheBeach (D+) v , v , v KingGeedorah (D+) EDIT: They don't have TL accounts, but I am friends with them on FB so I can stay in touch easily. ImAtTheBeach (D+) v , v , v KingGeedorah (D+) NewJetCity (D+) EDIT In case it wasn't clear (I saw someone update the LP), but sGs.XKCD (D) Is also back in the team but playing a different race this season. Don't mean to sound like an anal douche, but wouldn't it be simpler to say that KingGeedorah is that ZvT's? And aww yeah, Xkcd has found the true way to Terran... No more imba Zerg. Anyways, it looks like SunKan has 7 players, putting them at the "minimum" that we all set with 7. Thanks to BaBo, it looks like we have enough free agents to put every team at the 7 players we all want, plus a bit more... Maybe after every team reaches 8, teams are randomly selected to pick out the remaining free agents, or just leave it at the team with the least number of players filling up their teams will free agents? I also want to remind everyone that we are waiting on the additional player that thezanursic said might be joining our team, and we are awaiting an official ruling on puppykiller, because if he is allowed to play then because I've known him for a while I requested that he join our team and not participate in the draft as a player of no affiliation (he is also interested in joining our team). I do want to make it known on pebble's behalf that he is against having puppykiller in DRTL, but if he is accepted into DRTL is okay with having him on our team (pending a team vote). I think that the reason why puppykiller should be granted an exception while other players in similar situations have not is because he isn't just guesstimating his rank with his offrace, but has actually laddered a fair number of games and has posted results consistent with this league's requirements. Here is his ladder account in case you are interested: http://www.iccup.com/starcraft/gamingprofile/BigSandwich88.htmlIf I understand correctly, I think that his season 20 stats are from him playing Terran, but this was also a long time ago. I feel that combined with this evidence and the fact that other former high-rank players have been allowed based on current form and results, there isn't much of a reason to deny puppykiller entry into the league. Will await an official decision ofc. EDIT: Obviously if we collect puppykiller and potentially the other player, that will push Sun Kan a lot farther away from drafting possibilities, and I'm glad that the added players could help other teams pick up a sufficient amount of players. Rofl, the fact that pk even brushes with C- with his OFFRACE is enough for me to be against him joining. Artanis himself hasn't even hit C- with Z (his main race was P iirc) and he's already voluntarily taken himself off. But at the end of the day, if we ignore what someone's reputation is and just look at results, how are his stats any less acceptable than other players who brush C- in the league? o_O To weigh myself, I think it would set a real bad precedent if puppykiller is let in the league. It would open the flood gate for higher leveled players entering with their off-race. And such a thing has already been voted down. Also amused at the "against him being in the league, but if he is allowed, we want him!" part. Like I explained earlier, there is a major difference between puppykiller and all other applicants who had been voted down in the past, namely that instead of just claiming their max rank to be so-and-so, he has laddered over 100 games and proven that his skill IS acceptable for the league, and he did this BEFORE he even applied for eligibility. That in my eyes is enough to serve as an exception to the precedent. The "against him..." is honestly pebble being a good leader. His personal opinion is that he does not want puppykiller in the league, but as a team captain he made a compromise because I presented a strong case for him to be on our team given that we have a history, like other teams that picked up players who they knew IRL or through ICCup or otherwise. It wasn't done out of some sort of selfish desire to scoop up the best player. So just because he "laddered 100 games" on his offrace and only stayed D+ (very high D+ and even hit C- mind you), he should be allowed in? Then all those we rejected simply have to ladder 100 games and show that they're D+ on their offrace. Like Sent said, that's opening the flood gates. Also, don't need to copy/paste the "anyone can hit C- argument" because while it's one thing to do on your main race, to do so again so easily with an offrace, just shows where the line should be drawn.
I think the main argument was that if the people we rejected had laddered 100 games, they would achieve higher than D+/C- borderline due to their better mechanics, deeper game knowledge, etc. and there was no proof to the contrary. Here we have proof to the contrary - his hypothetical advantages as a former high rank player have not resulted in result stronger than D+/C- borderline. He has under 50% winrate against fellow D+ players (which is not something that can be said about quite a few players in this league), is 1-5 against yellow ranked players, and has hit C- for only one game and never since. This to me is almost exactly the kind of performance that is shown by other border cases that are not even being questioned.
In order to draw a parallel, you also have under 50% winrate against D+ players, 0-1 against yellow ranked players, and have not played since you hit C-. I don't see what separates his stats on paper from yours and makes him ineligible. The only thing that could logically disqualify him is if L_Master reviews his actual gameplay (which I'm sure none of us have done) and determines that he is in fact too strong.
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On March 01 2013 05:20 Jealous wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2013 05:07 Nagisama wrote:On March 01 2013 04:49 Jealous wrote:On March 01 2013 04:23 Sentenal wrote:On February 28 2013 14:51 Jealous wrote:On February 28 2013 12:34 Nagisama wrote:On February 28 2013 10:31 L_Master wrote:On February 28 2013 08:32 amazingxkcd wrote:On February 28 2013 08:20 SynC[gm] wrote:On February 28 2013 08:15 Sentenal wrote:
[quote]
I thought you said only the balanced onces The "=p" was probably the part where he was joking... But yeah, I do agree that maps like Fighting Spirit should be removed. It might be a rather balanced map in terms of natural matchup advantages, where P>T>Z>P, but it hardly shows any innovative play that might inspire other players to go for... Maps like Tau Cross, Andromeda, and Triathlon... Heck, why not add some BMWN, like Gemlong or Resonance? Im advocating for the BMWN maps to be used. Two of the BWMN maps are being used, the two that were added to the ICCup mappack. Outsider and Destination were removed. I thought I posted that about a week ago...maybe it didn't go through. Which 2? Too lazy to sift through which 2 you added. ICCup added 3 maps which were from BMWN. On February 28 2013 12:33 Jealous wrote:On February 28 2013 12:15 SynC[gm] wrote:On February 28 2013 11:35 Jealous wrote:On February 28 2013 09:49 Jealous wrote:These are two of our new additions to Sun Kan, I am posting this more for my benefit than any official purpose, so I can keep track easier. ImAtTheBeach (D+) v , v , v KingGeedorah (D+) EDIT: They don't have TL accounts, but I am friends with them on FB so I can stay in touch easily. ImAtTheBeach (D+) v , v , v KingGeedorah (D+) NewJetCity (D+) EDIT In case it wasn't clear (I saw someone update the LP), but sGs.XKCD (D) Is also back in the team but playing a different race this season. Don't mean to sound like an anal douche, but wouldn't it be simpler to say that KingGeedorah is that ZvT's? And aww yeah, Xkcd has found the true way to Terran... No more imba Zerg. Anyways, it looks like SunKan has 7 players, putting them at the "minimum" that we all set with 7. Thanks to BaBo, it looks like we have enough free agents to put every team at the 7 players we all want, plus a bit more... Maybe after every team reaches 8, teams are randomly selected to pick out the remaining free agents, or just leave it at the team with the least number of players filling up their teams will free agents? I also want to remind everyone that we are waiting on the additional player that thezanursic said might be joining our team, and we are awaiting an official ruling on puppykiller, because if he is allowed to play then because I've known him for a while I requested that he join our team and not participate in the draft as a player of no affiliation (he is also interested in joining our team). I do want to make it known on pebble's behalf that he is against having puppykiller in DRTL, but if he is accepted into DRTL is okay with having him on our team (pending a team vote). I think that the reason why puppykiller should be granted an exception while other players in similar situations have not is because he isn't just guesstimating his rank with his offrace, but has actually laddered a fair number of games and has posted results consistent with this league's requirements. Here is his ladder account in case you are interested: http://www.iccup.com/starcraft/gamingprofile/BigSandwich88.htmlIf I understand correctly, I think that his season 20 stats are from him playing Terran, but this was also a long time ago. I feel that combined with this evidence and the fact that other former high-rank players have been allowed based on current form and results, there isn't much of a reason to deny puppykiller entry into the league. Will await an official decision ofc. EDIT: Obviously if we collect puppykiller and potentially the other player, that will push Sun Kan a lot farther away from drafting possibilities, and I'm glad that the added players could help other teams pick up a sufficient amount of players. Rofl, the fact that pk even brushes with C- with his OFFRACE is enough for me to be against him joining. Artanis himself hasn't even hit C- with Z (his main race was P iirc) and he's already voluntarily taken himself off. But at the end of the day, if we ignore what someone's reputation is and just look at results, how are his stats any less acceptable than other players who brush C- in the league? o_O To weigh myself, I think it would set a real bad precedent if puppykiller is let in the league. It would open the flood gate for higher leveled players entering with their off-race. And such a thing has already been voted down. Also amused at the "against him being in the league, but if he is allowed, we want him!" part. Like I explained earlier, there is a major difference between puppykiller and all other applicants who had been voted down in the past, namely that instead of just claiming their max rank to be so-and-so, he has laddered over 100 games and proven that his skill IS acceptable for the league, and he did this BEFORE he even applied for eligibility. That in my eyes is enough to serve as an exception to the precedent. The "against him..." is honestly pebble being a good leader. His personal opinion is that he does not want puppykiller in the league, but as a team captain he made a compromise because I presented a strong case for him to be on our team given that we have a history, like other teams that picked up players who they knew IRL or through ICCup or otherwise. It wasn't done out of some sort of selfish desire to scoop up the best player. So just because he "laddered 100 games" on his offrace and only stayed D+ (very high D+ and even hit C- mind you), he should be allowed in? Then all those we rejected simply have to ladder 100 games and show that they're D+ on their offrace. Like Sent said, that's opening the flood gates. Also, don't need to copy/paste the "anyone can hit C- argument" because while it's one thing to do on your main race, to do so again so easily with an offrace, just shows where the line should be drawn. I think the main argument was that if the people we rejected had laddered 100 games, they would achieve higher than D+/C- borderline due to their better mechanics, deeper game knowledge, etc. and there was no proof to the contrary. Here we have proof to the contrary - his hypothetical advantages as a former high rank player have not resulted in result stronger than D+/C- borderline. He has under 50% winrate against fellow D+ players (which is not something that can be said about quite a few players in this league), is 1-5 against yellow ranked players, and has hit C- for only one game and never since. This to me is almost exactly the kind of performance that is shown by other border cases that are not even being questioned. In order to draw a parallel, you also have under 50% winrate against D+ players, 0-1 against yellow ranked players, and have not played since you hit C-. I don't see what separates his stats on paper from yours and makes him ineligible. The only thing that could logically disqualify him is if L_Master reviews his actual gameplay (which I'm sure none of us have done) and determines that he is in fact too strong.
So whats to stop a ton of other higher ranked players from flooding in with their offrace, asking for exceptions, if puppykiller is let in? Its a slippery slope. And like I said, "higher ranked players on their off-race" being allowed has been voted against, by a majority in the league, and I don't think that should be ignored.
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On March 01 2013 05:20 Jealous wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2013 05:07 Nagisama wrote:On March 01 2013 04:49 Jealous wrote:On March 01 2013 04:23 Sentenal wrote:On February 28 2013 14:51 Jealous wrote:On February 28 2013 12:34 Nagisama wrote:On February 28 2013 10:31 L_Master wrote:On February 28 2013 08:32 amazingxkcd wrote:On February 28 2013 08:20 SynC[gm] wrote:On February 28 2013 08:15 Sentenal wrote:
[quote]
I thought you said only the balanced onces The "=p" was probably the part where he was joking... But yeah, I do agree that maps like Fighting Spirit should be removed. It might be a rather balanced map in terms of natural matchup advantages, where P>T>Z>P, but it hardly shows any innovative play that might inspire other players to go for... Maps like Tau Cross, Andromeda, and Triathlon... Heck, why not add some BMWN, like Gemlong or Resonance? Im advocating for the BMWN maps to be used. Two of the BWMN maps are being used, the two that were added to the ICCup mappack. Outsider and Destination were removed. I thought I posted that about a week ago...maybe it didn't go through. Which 2? Too lazy to sift through which 2 you added. ICCup added 3 maps which were from BMWN. On February 28 2013 12:33 Jealous wrote:On February 28 2013 12:15 SynC[gm] wrote:On February 28 2013 11:35 Jealous wrote:On February 28 2013 09:49 Jealous wrote:These are two of our new additions to Sun Kan, I am posting this more for my benefit than any official purpose, so I can keep track easier. ImAtTheBeach (D+) v , v , v KingGeedorah (D+) EDIT: They don't have TL accounts, but I am friends with them on FB so I can stay in touch easily. ImAtTheBeach (D+) v , v , v KingGeedorah (D+) NewJetCity (D+) EDIT In case it wasn't clear (I saw someone update the LP), but sGs.XKCD (D) Is also back in the team but playing a different race this season. Don't mean to sound like an anal douche, but wouldn't it be simpler to say that KingGeedorah is that ZvT's? And aww yeah, Xkcd has found the true way to Terran... No more imba Zerg. Anyways, it looks like SunKan has 7 players, putting them at the "minimum" that we all set with 7. Thanks to BaBo, it looks like we have enough free agents to put every team at the 7 players we all want, plus a bit more... Maybe after every team reaches 8, teams are randomly selected to pick out the remaining free agents, or just leave it at the team with the least number of players filling up their teams will free agents? I also want to remind everyone that we are waiting on the additional player that thezanursic said might be joining our team, and we are awaiting an official ruling on puppykiller, because if he is allowed to play then because I've known him for a while I requested that he join our team and not participate in the draft as a player of no affiliation (he is also interested in joining our team). I do want to make it known on pebble's behalf that he is against having puppykiller in DRTL, but if he is accepted into DRTL is okay with having him on our team (pending a team vote). I think that the reason why puppykiller should be granted an exception while other players in similar situations have not is because he isn't just guesstimating his rank with his offrace, but has actually laddered a fair number of games and has posted results consistent with this league's requirements. Here is his ladder account in case you are interested: http://www.iccup.com/starcraft/gamingprofile/BigSandwich88.htmlIf I understand correctly, I think that his season 20 stats are from him playing Terran, but this was also a long time ago. I feel that combined with this evidence and the fact that other former high-rank players have been allowed based on current form and results, there isn't much of a reason to deny puppykiller entry into the league. Will await an official decision ofc. EDIT: Obviously if we collect puppykiller and potentially the other player, that will push Sun Kan a lot farther away from drafting possibilities, and I'm glad that the added players could help other teams pick up a sufficient amount of players. Rofl, the fact that pk even brushes with C- with his OFFRACE is enough for me to be against him joining. Artanis himself hasn't even hit C- with Z (his main race was P iirc) and he's already voluntarily taken himself off. But at the end of the day, if we ignore what someone's reputation is and just look at results, how are his stats any less acceptable than other players who brush C- in the league? o_O To weigh myself, I think it would set a real bad precedent if puppykiller is let in the league. It would open the flood gate for higher leveled players entering with their off-race. And such a thing has already been voted down. Also amused at the "against him being in the league, but if he is allowed, we want him!" part. Like I explained earlier, there is a major difference between puppykiller and all other applicants who had been voted down in the past, namely that instead of just claiming their max rank to be so-and-so, he has laddered over 100 games and proven that his skill IS acceptable for the league, and he did this BEFORE he even applied for eligibility. That in my eyes is enough to serve as an exception to the precedent. The "against him..." is honestly pebble being a good leader. His personal opinion is that he does not want puppykiller in the league, but as a team captain he made a compromise because I presented a strong case for him to be on our team given that we have a history, like other teams that picked up players who they knew IRL or through ICCup or otherwise. It wasn't done out of some sort of selfish desire to scoop up the best player. So just because he "laddered 100 games" on his offrace and only stayed D+ (very high D+ and even hit C- mind you), he should be allowed in? Then all those we rejected simply have to ladder 100 games and show that they're D+ on their offrace. Like Sent said, that's opening the flood gates. Also, don't need to copy/paste the "anyone can hit C- argument" because while it's one thing to do on your main race, to do so again so easily with an offrace, just shows where the line should be drawn. I think the main argument was that if the people we rejected had laddered 100 games, they would achieve higher than D+/C- borderline due to their better mechanics, deeper game knowledge, etc. and there was no proof to the contrary.
No, the argument was that they would quickly gain skill equivalent and soon surpassing that of a D+ ranker due to the aforementioned things. What hinders them is knowledge of builds and how the matchups work. idk where you got 100 games from other than what the player in question has played. If in 100 games he is already at Nagi's level, then in another 100 games, he could very well be solid C-. Your argument is saying he has stagnated in skill and from now on, his growth will be equivalent to all the top players in this league. I'd be scared to imagine how good someone would become in 100-200 more games if they reached the top level of this league in only 100 games. In my opinion, if nothing else, the fact he is at the level of a "border case" after only 100 games just confirms the fears many players have about allowing higher ranked offracers.
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Well-presented arguments. I guess we'll await the results of the replay analysis!
EDIT: I got the 100 games based on the fact that puppykiller has laddered 140+ games already, which should be a pretty good determination of skill.
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+ Show Spoiler +On February 28 2013 12:33 Jealous wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2013 12:15 SynC[gm] wrote:On February 28 2013 11:35 Jealous wrote:On February 28 2013 09:49 Jealous wrote:These are two of our new additions to Sun Kan, I am posting this more for my benefit than any official purpose, so I can keep track easier. ImAtTheBeach (D+) v , v , v KingGeedorah (D+) EDIT: They don't have TL accounts, but I am friends with them on FB so I can stay in touch easily. ImAtTheBeach (D+) v , v , v KingGeedorah (D+) NewJetCity (D+) EDIT In case it wasn't clear (I saw someone update the LP), but sGs.XKCD (D) Is also back in the team but playing a different race this season. Don't mean to sound like an anal douche, but wouldn't it be simpler to say that KingGeedorah is that ZvT's? And aww yeah, Xkcd has found the true way to Terran... No more imba Zerg. Anyways, it looks like SunKan has 7 players, putting them at the "minimum" that we all set with 7. Thanks to BaBo, it looks like we have enough free agents to put every team at the 7 players we all want, plus a bit more... Maybe after every team reaches 8, teams are randomly selected to pick out the remaining free agents, or just leave it at the team with the least number of players filling up their teams will free agents? I also want to remind everyone that we are waiting on the additional player that thezanursic said might be joining our team, and we are awaiting an official ruling on puppykiller, because if he is allowed to play then because I've known him for a while I requested that he join our team and not participate in the draft as a player of no affiliation (he is also interested in joining our team). I do want to make it known on pebble's behalf that he is against having puppykiller in DRTL, but if he is accepted into DRTL is okay with having him on our team (pending a team vote). I think that the reason why puppykiller should be granted an exception while other players in similar situations have not is because he isn't just guesstimating his rank with his offrace, but has actually laddered a fair number of games and has posted results consistent with this league's requirements. Here is his ladder account in case you are interested: http://www.iccup.com/starcraft/gamingprofile/BigSandwich88.htmlIf I understand correctly, I think that his season 20 stats are from him playing Terran, but this was also a long time ago. I feel that combined with this evidence and the fact that other former high-rank players have been allowed based on current form and results, there isn't much of a reason to deny puppykiller entry into the league. Will await an official decision ofc. EDIT: Obviously if we collect puppykiller and potentially the other player, that will push Sun Kan a lot farther away from drafting possibilities, and I'm glad that the added players could help other teams pick up a sufficient amount of players. EDIT 2: @ Sync I just posted Geedorah's MUs as he sent them to me on FB ^^
I talked to the guy and he hasn't decided yet. I really hope he joins the team because of what I've played with him he seems like a decent guy.
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Is it too late to sign up? My main race is C+ but I haven't played for about half a year and my offraces are around D+ when I stopped playing. PS my offrace sucks more than puppykiller's offrace. Let me play!
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On March 01 2013 05:07 Nagisama wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2013 04:49 Jealous wrote:On March 01 2013 04:23 Sentenal wrote:On February 28 2013 14:51 Jealous wrote:On February 28 2013 12:34 Nagisama wrote:On February 28 2013 10:31 L_Master wrote:On February 28 2013 08:32 amazingxkcd wrote:On February 28 2013 08:20 SynC[gm] wrote:On February 28 2013 08:15 Sentenal wrote:On February 28 2013 08:14 Psyonic_Reaver wrote:
I agree on using some 2007 - 2010 maps but only the balanced ones. Rotating pool would be cool. Rush Hour 3 IMHO =p I thought you said only the balanced onces The "=p" was probably the part where he was joking... But yeah, I do agree that maps like Fighting Spirit should be removed. It might be a rather balanced map in terms of natural matchup advantages, where P>T>Z>P, but it hardly shows any innovative play that might inspire other players to go for... Maps like Tau Cross, Andromeda, and Triathlon... Heck, why not add some BMWN, like Gemlong or Resonance? Im advocating for the BMWN maps to be used. Two of the BWMN maps are being used, the two that were added to the ICCup mappack. Outsider and Destination were removed. I thought I posted that about a week ago...maybe it didn't go through. Which 2? Too lazy to sift through which 2 you added. ICCup added 3 maps which were from BMWN. On February 28 2013 12:33 Jealous wrote:On February 28 2013 12:15 SynC[gm] wrote:On February 28 2013 11:35 Jealous wrote:On February 28 2013 09:49 Jealous wrote:These are two of our new additions to Sun Kan, I am posting this more for my benefit than any official purpose, so I can keep track easier. ImAtTheBeach (D+) v , v , v KingGeedorah (D+) EDIT: They don't have TL accounts, but I am friends with them on FB so I can stay in touch easily. ImAtTheBeach (D+) v , v , v KingGeedorah (D+) NewJetCity (D+) EDIT In case it wasn't clear (I saw someone update the LP), but sGs.XKCD (D) Is also back in the team but playing a different race this season. Don't mean to sound like an anal douche, but wouldn't it be simpler to say that KingGeedorah is that ZvT's? And aww yeah, Xkcd has found the true way to Terran... No more imba Zerg. Anyways, it looks like SunKan has 7 players, putting them at the "minimum" that we all set with 7. Thanks to BaBo, it looks like we have enough free agents to put every team at the 7 players we all want, plus a bit more... Maybe after every team reaches 8, teams are randomly selected to pick out the remaining free agents, or just leave it at the team with the least number of players filling up their teams will free agents? I also want to remind everyone that we are waiting on the additional player that thezanursic said might be joining our team, and we are awaiting an official ruling on puppykiller, because if he is allowed to play then because I've known him for a while I requested that he join our team and not participate in the draft as a player of no affiliation (he is also interested in joining our team). I do want to make it known on pebble's behalf that he is against having puppykiller in DRTL, but if he is accepted into DRTL is okay with having him on our team (pending a team vote). I think that the reason why puppykiller should be granted an exception while other players in similar situations have not is because he isn't just guesstimating his rank with his offrace, but has actually laddered a fair number of games and has posted results consistent with this league's requirements. Here is his ladder account in case you are interested: http://www.iccup.com/starcraft/gamingprofile/BigSandwich88.htmlIf I understand correctly, I think that his season 20 stats are from him playing Terran, but this was also a long time ago. I feel that combined with this evidence and the fact that other former high-rank players have been allowed based on current form and results, there isn't much of a reason to deny puppykiller entry into the league. Will await an official decision ofc. EDIT: Obviously if we collect puppykiller and potentially the other player, that will push Sun Kan a lot farther away from drafting possibilities, and I'm glad that the added players could help other teams pick up a sufficient amount of players. Rofl, the fact that pk even brushes with C- with his OFFRACE is enough for me to be against him joining. Artanis himself hasn't even hit C- with Z (his main race was P iirc) and he's already voluntarily taken himself off. But at the end of the day, if we ignore what someone's reputation is and just look at results, how are his stats any less acceptable than other players who brush C- in the league? o_O To weigh myself, I think it would set a real bad precedent if puppykiller is let in the league. It would open the flood gate for higher leveled players entering with their off-race. And such a thing has already been voted down. Also amused at the "against him being in the league, but if he is allowed, we want him!" part. Like I explained earlier, there is a major difference between puppykiller and all other applicants who had been voted down in the past, namely that instead of just claiming their max rank to be so-and-so, he has laddered over 100 games and proven that his skill IS acceptable for the league, and he did this BEFORE he even applied for eligibility. That in my eyes is enough to serve as an exception to the precedent. The "against him..." is honestly pebble being a good leader. His personal opinion is that he does not want puppykiller in the league, but as a team captain he made a compromise because I presented a strong case for him to be on our team given that we have a history, like other teams that picked up players who they knew IRL or through ICCup or otherwise. It wasn't done out of some sort of selfish desire to scoop up the best player. So just because he "laddered 100 games" on his offrace and only stayed D+ (very high D+ and even hit C- mind you), he should be allowed in? Then all those we rejected simply have to ladder 100 games and show that they're D+ on their offrace. Like Sent said, that's opening the flood gates. Also, don't need to copy/paste the "anyone can hit C- argument" because while it's one thing to do on your main race, to do so again so easily with an offrace, just shows where the line should be drawn.
Really, you, of all people, are going to say that thebigsandwich88 can't be in this? He wasn't a "high-level" player to begin with, so I really don't understand where this outrage comes from. Just let the d00d play, geez.
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On March 01 2013 07:14 ninazerg wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2013 05:07 Nagisama wrote:On March 01 2013 04:49 Jealous wrote:On March 01 2013 04:23 Sentenal wrote:On February 28 2013 14:51 Jealous wrote:On February 28 2013 12:34 Nagisama wrote:On February 28 2013 10:31 L_Master wrote:On February 28 2013 08:32 amazingxkcd wrote:On February 28 2013 08:20 SynC[gm] wrote:On February 28 2013 08:15 Sentenal wrote:
[quote]
I thought you said only the balanced onces The "=p" was probably the part where he was joking... But yeah, I do agree that maps like Fighting Spirit should be removed. It might be a rather balanced map in terms of natural matchup advantages, where P>T>Z>P, but it hardly shows any innovative play that might inspire other players to go for... Maps like Tau Cross, Andromeda, and Triathlon... Heck, why not add some BMWN, like Gemlong or Resonance? Im advocating for the BMWN maps to be used. Two of the BWMN maps are being used, the two that were added to the ICCup mappack. Outsider and Destination were removed. I thought I posted that about a week ago...maybe it didn't go through. Which 2? Too lazy to sift through which 2 you added. ICCup added 3 maps which were from BMWN. On February 28 2013 12:33 Jealous wrote:On February 28 2013 12:15 SynC[gm] wrote:On February 28 2013 11:35 Jealous wrote:On February 28 2013 09:49 Jealous wrote:These are two of our new additions to Sun Kan, I am posting this more for my benefit than any official purpose, so I can keep track easier. ImAtTheBeach (D+) v , v , v KingGeedorah (D+) EDIT: They don't have TL accounts, but I am friends with them on FB so I can stay in touch easily. ImAtTheBeach (D+) v , v , v KingGeedorah (D+) NewJetCity (D+) EDIT In case it wasn't clear (I saw someone update the LP), but sGs.XKCD (D) Is also back in the team but playing a different race this season. Don't mean to sound like an anal douche, but wouldn't it be simpler to say that KingGeedorah is that ZvT's? And aww yeah, Xkcd has found the true way to Terran... No more imba Zerg. Anyways, it looks like SunKan has 7 players, putting them at the "minimum" that we all set with 7. Thanks to BaBo, it looks like we have enough free agents to put every team at the 7 players we all want, plus a bit more... Maybe after every team reaches 8, teams are randomly selected to pick out the remaining free agents, or just leave it at the team with the least number of players filling up their teams will free agents? I also want to remind everyone that we are waiting on the additional player that thezanursic said might be joining our team, and we are awaiting an official ruling on puppykiller, because if he is allowed to play then because I've known him for a while I requested that he join our team and not participate in the draft as a player of no affiliation (he is also interested in joining our team). I do want to make it known on pebble's behalf that he is against having puppykiller in DRTL, but if he is accepted into DRTL is okay with having him on our team (pending a team vote). I think that the reason why puppykiller should be granted an exception while other players in similar situations have not is because he isn't just guesstimating his rank with his offrace, but has actually laddered a fair number of games and has posted results consistent with this league's requirements. Here is his ladder account in case you are interested: http://www.iccup.com/starcraft/gamingprofile/BigSandwich88.htmlIf I understand correctly, I think that his season 20 stats are from him playing Terran, but this was also a long time ago. I feel that combined with this evidence and the fact that other former high-rank players have been allowed based on current form and results, there isn't much of a reason to deny puppykiller entry into the league. Will await an official decision ofc. EDIT: Obviously if we collect puppykiller and potentially the other player, that will push Sun Kan a lot farther away from drafting possibilities, and I'm glad that the added players could help other teams pick up a sufficient amount of players. Rofl, the fact that pk even brushes with C- with his OFFRACE is enough for me to be against him joining. Artanis himself hasn't even hit C- with Z (his main race was P iirc) and he's already voluntarily taken himself off. But at the end of the day, if we ignore what someone's reputation is and just look at results, how are his stats any less acceptable than other players who brush C- in the league? o_O To weigh myself, I think it would set a real bad precedent if puppykiller is let in the league. It would open the flood gate for higher leveled players entering with their off-race. And such a thing has already been voted down. Also amused at the "against him being in the league, but if he is allowed, we want him!" part. Like I explained earlier, there is a major difference between puppykiller and all other applicants who had been voted down in the past, namely that instead of just claiming their max rank to be so-and-so, he has laddered over 100 games and proven that his skill IS acceptable for the league, and he did this BEFORE he even applied for eligibility. That in my eyes is enough to serve as an exception to the precedent. The "against him..." is honestly pebble being a good leader. His personal opinion is that he does not want puppykiller in the league, but as a team captain he made a compromise because I presented a strong case for him to be on our team given that we have a history, like other teams that picked up players who they knew IRL or through ICCup or otherwise. It wasn't done out of some sort of selfish desire to scoop up the best player. So just because he "laddered 100 games" on his offrace and only stayed D+ (very high D+ and even hit C- mind you), he should be allowed in? Then all those we rejected simply have to ladder 100 games and show that they're D+ on their offrace. Like Sent said, that's opening the flood gates. Also, don't need to copy/paste the "anyone can hit C- argument" because while it's one thing to do on your main race, to do so again so easily with an offrace, just shows where the line should be drawn. Really, you, of all people, are going to say that thebigsandwich88 can't be in this? He wasn't a "high-level" player to begin with, so I really don't understand where this outrage comes from. Just let the d00d play, geez.
Whats with this "you of all people" talking to Nagisama?
Also, see, flood gates are already leaking.
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On March 01 2013 07:25 Sentenal wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2013 07:14 ninazerg wrote:On March 01 2013 05:07 Nagisama wrote:On March 01 2013 04:49 Jealous wrote:On March 01 2013 04:23 Sentenal wrote:On February 28 2013 14:51 Jealous wrote:On February 28 2013 12:34 Nagisama wrote:On February 28 2013 10:31 L_Master wrote:On February 28 2013 08:32 amazingxkcd wrote:On February 28 2013 08:20 SynC[gm] wrote:
[quote]
The "=p" was probably the part where he was joking...
But yeah, I do agree that maps like Fighting Spirit should be removed. It might be a rather balanced map in terms of natural matchup advantages, where P>T>Z>P, but it hardly shows any innovative play that might inspire other players to go for...
Maps like Tau Cross, Andromeda, and Triathlon... Heck, why not add some BMWN, like Gemlong or Resonance? Im advocating for the BMWN maps to be used. Two of the BWMN maps are being used, the two that were added to the ICCup mappack. Outsider and Destination were removed. I thought I posted that about a week ago...maybe it didn't go through. Which 2? Too lazy to sift through which 2 you added. ICCup added 3 maps which were from BMWN. On February 28 2013 12:33 Jealous wrote:On February 28 2013 12:15 SynC[gm] wrote:On February 28 2013 11:35 Jealous wrote:[quote] ImAtTheBeach (D+) v , v , v KingGeedorah (D+) NewJetCity (D+) EDIT In case it wasn't clear (I saw someone update the LP), but sGs.XKCD (D) Is also back in the team but playing a different race this season. Don't mean to sound like an anal douche, but wouldn't it be simpler to say that KingGeedorah is that ZvT's? And aww yeah, Xkcd has found the true way to Terran... No more imba Zerg. Anyways, it looks like SunKan has 7 players, putting them at the "minimum" that we all set with 7. Thanks to BaBo, it looks like we have enough free agents to put every team at the 7 players we all want, plus a bit more... Maybe after every team reaches 8, teams are randomly selected to pick out the remaining free agents, or just leave it at the team with the least number of players filling up their teams will free agents? I also want to remind everyone that we are waiting on the additional player that thezanursic said might be joining our team, and we are awaiting an official ruling on puppykiller, because if he is allowed to play then because I've known him for a while I requested that he join our team and not participate in the draft as a player of no affiliation (he is also interested in joining our team). I do want to make it known on pebble's behalf that he is against having puppykiller in DRTL, but if he is accepted into DRTL is okay with having him on our team (pending a team vote). I think that the reason why puppykiller should be granted an exception while other players in similar situations have not is because he isn't just guesstimating his rank with his offrace, but has actually laddered a fair number of games and has posted results consistent with this league's requirements. Here is his ladder account in case you are interested: http://www.iccup.com/starcraft/gamingprofile/BigSandwich88.htmlIf I understand correctly, I think that his season 20 stats are from him playing Terran, but this was also a long time ago. I feel that combined with this evidence and the fact that other former high-rank players have been allowed based on current form and results, there isn't much of a reason to deny puppykiller entry into the league. Will await an official decision ofc. EDIT: Obviously if we collect puppykiller and potentially the other player, that will push Sun Kan a lot farther away from drafting possibilities, and I'm glad that the added players could help other teams pick up a sufficient amount of players. Rofl, the fact that pk even brushes with C- with his OFFRACE is enough for me to be against him joining. Artanis himself hasn't even hit C- with Z (his main race was P iirc) and he's already voluntarily taken himself off. But at the end of the day, if we ignore what someone's reputation is and just look at results, how are his stats any less acceptable than other players who brush C- in the league? o_O To weigh myself, I think it would set a real bad precedent if puppykiller is let in the league. It would open the flood gate for higher leveled players entering with their off-race. And such a thing has already been voted down. Also amused at the "against him being in the league, but if he is allowed, we want him!" part. Like I explained earlier, there is a major difference between puppykiller and all other applicants who had been voted down in the past, namely that instead of just claiming their max rank to be so-and-so, he has laddered over 100 games and proven that his skill IS acceptable for the league, and he did this BEFORE he even applied for eligibility. That in my eyes is enough to serve as an exception to the precedent. The "against him..." is honestly pebble being a good leader. His personal opinion is that he does not want puppykiller in the league, but as a team captain he made a compromise because I presented a strong case for him to be on our team given that we have a history, like other teams that picked up players who they knew IRL or through ICCup or otherwise. It wasn't done out of some sort of selfish desire to scoop up the best player. So just because he "laddered 100 games" on his offrace and only stayed D+ (very high D+ and even hit C- mind you), he should be allowed in? Then all those we rejected simply have to ladder 100 games and show that they're D+ on their offrace. Like Sent said, that's opening the flood gates. Also, don't need to copy/paste the "anyone can hit C- argument" because while it's one thing to do on your main race, to do so again so easily with an offrace, just shows where the line should be drawn. Really, you, of all people, are going to say that thebigsandwich88 can't be in this? He wasn't a "high-level" player to begin with, so I really don't understand where this outrage comes from. Just let the d00d play, geez. Whats with this "you of all people" talking to Nagisama? Also, see, flood gates are already leaking.
Oh no, people are making posts! Whatever shall we do?
The comparison is not really valid. 140 game season done before signing up for D ranks after 1 year inactivity vs. and an unsubstantiated claim of having a weak off race... In fact the post seemed sarcastic but maybe my e-radar is off.
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EPT
