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Jakalo
Latvia2350 Posts
On August 20 2010 21:09 Vivi57 wrote: So much rage. Just because leta comes from a team willing to hide pylons in a televised match doesn't mean anyone accused him of match fixing. Can you read, he says that Leta threw a match? | ||
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darktreb
United States3019 Posts
That donation by Leta might turn out to be huge for Flash's career legacy. I really wouldn't have expected Flash to win both games next week the day before MSL finals (probably against the Dong). Now he can potentially "all-in practice" for game 2 in hopes of taking the series 2-0 while focusing on the finals. That mistake probably keeps Flash in both leagues and keeps his hopes alive to make every final for an entire year. | ||
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Baddieko
Singapore855 Posts
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
On August 20 2010 21:10 Shikyo wrote: Could someone explain to me why the people with an advantage don't just get more bases than their opponent and built 30 turrets on every expansion and just mass tanks until switching into BCs? Why do they try to do all these drops and stuff when at an advantage, isn't that something you do when behind? Because in TvT advantage in base count isn't as important early on as advantage in map control. If you out expand your opponent you still need lots of units pumping to keep map position so the other guy doesn't move out. So you expand, pump units, pump scvs and then build turrets. All of this while still constantly scanning and moving around armies. If Leta didn't have those dropships Flash would have freely expanded to the bottom of the map and evened up the game. Notice that mid game Leta dropped Flash so many times that Flash had to fight tooth and nail to the bone to get those 2 bases back. Leta kept his advantage, bought time to pump out a ridiculous number of SCVs AND turreted up all his bases. Then he lost all of his main army in 7 dropships and Flash vulture raided him at 2 bases. Shit happens. | ||
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On_Slaught
United States12190 Posts
Awesome. | ||
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darktreb
United States3019 Posts
The only thing Flash did to earn that donation was build up his reputation for making the impossible happen in late game TvT, thus causing panic and bad decisions in his opponents. What other explanation is there for his opponents, who are otherwise competent professionals, just giving away 50 food in drops? I can't remember a single other game in the past 6 months where one Terran made as bad of a decision as multiple different bad decisions Leta and Fantasy have made in their WCG and OSL/MSL games with Flash.... | ||
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kawatan
288 Posts
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FuRong
New Zealand3089 Posts
As the Chinese commentators pointed out yesterday, it's scary to think how Flash could dominate TvT if he had the power of Boxer and oov behind him like Fanta does... | ||
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moopie
12605 Posts
On August 20 2010 21:23 darktreb wrote: I love Flash as much as anyone but he was GIVEN that game. There's no way he wins that without Leta's donation. It was way more than "just" 50 food - Leta was basically on the edge of securing more than half the map (more than half the gas) and sealing the deal. While what you say is likely, given Flash's recent TvT games, you should avoid statements like "There's no way...", many have said them before you, and have been wrong  | ||
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rainei
Canada1316 Posts
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Vivi57
United States6599 Posts
On August 20 2010 21:23 darktreb wrote: I love Flash as much as anyone but he was GIVEN that game. There's no way he wins that without Leta's donation. It was way more than "just" 50 food - Leta was basically on the edge of securing more than half the map (more than half the gas) and sealing the deal. The only thing Flash did to earn that donation was build up his reputation for making the impossible happen in late game TvT, thus causing panic and bad decisions in his opponents. What other explanation is there for his opponents, who are otherwise competent professionals, just giving away 50 food in drops? I can't remember a single other game in the past 6 months where one Terran made as bad of a decision as multiple different bad decisions Leta and Fantasy have made in their WCG and OSL/MSL games with Flash.... I believe a certain b word fits all those characteristics. | ||
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KristianJS
2107 Posts
Of course, that's just part of the game and what makes Flash so great. Even if he's behind, he plays in a way to maximize his opponents possibilities for screwing up, and all it takes is one mistake for him to get back into it. That's the sign of a great player  | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
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kawatan
288 Posts
On August 20 2010 21:23 darktreb wrote: I love Flash as much as anyone but he was GIVEN that game. There's no way he wins that without Leta's donation. It was way more than "just" 50 food - Leta was basically on the edge of securing more than half the map (more than half the gas) and sealing the deal. The only thing Flash did to earn that donation was build up his reputation for making the impossible happen in late game TvT, thus causing panic and bad decisions in his opponents. What other explanation is there for his opponents, who are otherwise competent professionals, just giving away 50 food in drops? I can't remember a single other game in the past 6 months where one Terran made as bad of a decision as multiple different bad decisions Leta and Fantasy have made in their WCG and OSL/MSL games with Flash.... nothing like constant pressure to make even one of the most talented to crack and eventually collapse there's something about playing the kid and getting dragged to the deep then failing to hold your breath. | ||
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stambe
Bulgaria497 Posts
On August 20 2010 21:26 Vivi57 wrote: I believe a certain b word fits all those characteristics. Mmm... Yes, it DOES !!! I really hope this summer we witness something incredible - winning WCG Korea, OSL, MSL, and PL at the same time. That should go into the History Books | ||
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darktreb
United States3019 Posts
On August 20 2010 21:25 moopie wrote: While what you say is likely, given Flash's recent TvT games, you should avoid statements like "There's no way...", many have said them before you, and have been wrong I know what you mean but I've watched every single TvT Flash has played for the past 18 months, including all of his greatest comebacks (dating all the way back to his comebacks against Hwasin and Leta before the FBH masterclass). I can say with high confidence (fine, maybe not "no way") that he doesn't win without that, no matter how good he is. Leta was playing brilliantly up until that point (minus the Vulture harass right before which may have flustered him into the mistake). He was doing all the right things to extend and secure his advantage. Leta is one of the few Terrans who can play late game at Flash's level. When he's on, he plays a better late game TvT than anyone other than Flash and Skyhigh - yeah FBH, Hwasin, etc., are great Terrans but they were definitely A-class late game and not S-class, and here it makes all the difference. By the way I don't know if anyone remembers but I'm pretty sure that's not the first gigantic Dropship donation Leta has made. Didn't he have a game against Fantasy on Carthage back in the day where he also gave away a ton of Dropships to swing a game? | ||
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Lann555
Netherlands5173 Posts
I'm D- on Iccup and even I know that you scan before you drop that late in the game. Especially since Flash has a certain reputation when it comes to mass turrets. Well played by Flash though, but not as impressive as the comebacks yesterday, given the gargantuan mistakes by Leta | ||
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KristianJS
2107 Posts
Same thing with Flash...I mean look at how rattled Leta was. | ||
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InRaged
1047 Posts
On August 20 2010 21:18 setzer wrote: I guess you didn't watch the game because Leta was always up 15-25 supply and an extra base. And that was with bad macro. I guess you didn't watch the game because Leta had THREE more geyser way before Flash was able to secure his corner double gas, not just an extra base. And whole this time his gas were below 600. He didn't have "bad macro". He had idiotic unit positioning and decisions, but never bad macro, except for the very end of the game when he didn't use minerals to build vultures. The reason why he was able to get such insane lead to begin with was his extremely lucky mines which allowed him to destroy most of Flash's tanks and outmaneuver Flash. | ||
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darktreb
United States3019 Posts
On August 20 2010 21:27 KristianJS wrote: It's like they say: all great champions are lucky Yeah, as someone who's been a Flash fan for a few years now, I've seen how much a small bit of luck can change everything. When Flash got eliminated early in individuals for 4 straight seasons, it was often just the tiniest bit of bad luck that snowballed into failure. He's been amazing this year but he's also definitely been very lucky, and this latest gift might have been the biggest bit of luck yet (I really believe it'll turn out to be the difference between making all 6 finals and not). | ||
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