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On August 20 2010 21:30 darktreb wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2010 21:25 moopie wrote:On August 20 2010 21:23 darktreb wrote:
I love Flash as much as anyone but he was GIVEN that game. There's no way he wins that without Leta's donation. It was way more than "just" 50 food - Leta was basically on the edge of securing more than half the map (more than half the gas) and sealing the deal. While what you say is likely, given Flash's recent TvT games, you should avoid statements like "There's no way...", many have said them before you, and have been wrong  By the way I don't know if anyone remembers but I'm pretty sure that's not the first gigantic Dropship donation Leta has made. Didn't he have a game against Fantasy on Carthage back in the day where he also gave away a ton of Dropships to swing a game?
I think it was in the OSL. Leta was slowly pulling ahead all game, but got his dropships sniped by Fantasy, but that was way less stupid then this.
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Pretty disappointed in Leta there.
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Well tbh nobody can really deny that Flash got shit lucky when Leta flew 6 fully loaded dropships into 5turrets, turned and lost all. It was at that point the game turned and flash got a chance.
Sure he played great lategame and leta fucked up once more, but that was the really big moment when everything changed in the game.
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On August 20 2010 21:36 purpose wrote:
Well tbh nobody can really deny that Flash got shit lucky when Leta flew 6 fully loaded dropships into 5turrets, turned and lost all. It was at that point the game turned and flash got a chance.
Sure he played great lategame and leta fucked up once more, but that was the really big moment when everything changed in the game.
Well, having a few vults to defend his expansions could still have saved Leta's ass. Problem was that within 30 seconds he lost 2 bases worth of SCV to 5 vults and did the stupid drop
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On August 20 2010 21:36 purpose wrote:
Well tbh nobody can really deny that Flash got shit lucky when Leta flew 6 fully loaded dropships into 5turrets, turned and lost all. It was at that point the game turned and flash got a chance.
Sure he played great lategame and leta fucked up once more, but that was the really big moment when everything changed in the game.
making your opponent panic and start making mistakes has nothing to do with luck at any rate any rational person would agree that luck like jeebus does not exist.
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On August 20 2010 21:33 InRaged wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2010 21:18 setzer wrote:On August 20 2010 21:15 InRaged wrote:On August 20 2010 21:03 setzer wrote:
Good job Leta, you blew your chance at an OSL title. Flash's most undeserved victory ever. It's pretty amazing how much luck he has. Luck? You mean it was Flash who pulled ahead in early game with ridiculous mines? But yes, flash is so lucky that out of all terrans he's like the only one who knows how to play tvt. So lucky. I guess you didn't watch the game because Leta was always up 15-25 supply and an extra base. And that was with bad macro. I guess you didn't watch the game because Leta had THREE more geyser way before Flash was able to secure his corner double gas, not just an extra base. And whole this time his gas were below 600. He didn't have "bad macro". He had idiotic unit positioning and decisions, but never bad macro, except for the very end of the game when he didn't use minerals to build vultures. The reason why he was able to get such insane lead to begin with was his extremely lucky mines which allowed him to destroy most of Flash's tanks and outmaneuver Flash.
Way to contradict your previous statement. Floating 1500 minerals and 600-700 gas is bad macro, anyway you look at it. And I know you are a Flash fanboy but you should just face reality and admit Flash didn't really deserve the win.
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Leta almost won, made either an unfortunate misclick or the dumbest mistake of his career, and allowed Flash back into the match.
However, even when Leta made the epic mistake, I'm pretty sure only a few terrans (Flash, maybe Fantasy) could have come back from that. Leta still owned a majority of the map, Flash was overmining at his main & naturals (thus they were almost mined out), and he still BARELY squeaked out the win at the end, thanks to some epic moves such as the ninja doom drop, sneaking through enemy lines and through ALL of leta's troops, sniping the BC's... etc. Insane. You have to give Flash props for his win, but it was definitely Leta who lost the game.
edit:
I think a Terran with a stronger mentality could have still won in Leta's position. You could see in Leta's face, he never stopped thinking about that epic mistake. If you're a legit pro, you have to put all that behind you and still think you can win. Leta looked so unconfident after that fail... and understandably so.
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On August 20 2010 21:18 Jakalo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2010 21:09 Vivi57 wrote:On August 20 2010 21:08 icystorage wrote:On August 20 2010 21:05 SkytoM wrote:
match thrown... its a hite specialty :> stfu, leta's no match fixer. So much rage. Just because leta comes from a team willing to hide pylons in a televised match doesn't mean anyone accused him of match fixing. Can you read, he says that Leta threw a match?
also, there is a smiley. i didn't meant it serious of course!! I was pulling for Leta
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Fenrax
United States5018 Posts
Let's collect some facts:
- Leta played a risky early game that ended with him having a nice advantage
- In the early midgame Leta extended that early game advantage with nice Micro and good decisions and put Flash into a position of no return in the midgame
- Not even a B Teamer should lose a game vs. Flash with such an advantage
- Leta threw that big advantage in 2 minutes with a WTF-drop and by not defending vs Vulture harass
- even after that failed drop and the Vulture Harass Leta was still ahead
- after the failed drop it seemed like Leta was AFK. He didnt do much for the rest of the game and especially nothing good.
- Flash showed once again great fighting spirit
- Flash's macro, his lategame and especially the drop in Leta's main were a class of his own
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On August 20 2010 21:41 setzer wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2010 21:33 InRaged wrote:On August 20 2010 21:18 setzer wrote:On August 20 2010 21:15 InRaged wrote:On August 20 2010 21:03 setzer wrote:
Good job Leta, you blew your chance at an OSL title. Flash's most undeserved victory ever. It's pretty amazing how much luck he has. Luck? You mean it was Flash who pulled ahead in early game with ridiculous mines? But yes, flash is so lucky that out of all terrans he's like the only one who knows how to play tvt. So lucky. I guess you didn't watch the game because Leta was always up 15-25 supply and an extra base. And that was with bad macro. I guess you didn't watch the game because Leta had THREE more geyser way before Flash was able to secure his corner double gas, not just an extra base. And whole this time his gas were below 600. He didn't have "bad macro". He had idiotic unit positioning and decisions, but never bad macro, except for the very end of the game when he didn't use minerals to build vultures. The reason why he was able to get such insane lead to begin with was his extremely lucky mines which allowed him to destroy most of Flash's tanks and outmaneuver Flash. Way to contradict your previous statement. Floating 1500 minerals and 600-700 gas is bad macro, anyway you look at it. And I know you are a Flash fanboy but you should just face reality and admit Flash didn't really deserve the win.
It's not he did not deserve it, I mean, did someone who makes such a mistake deserve to win the game ?
But yeah, this had more to do with leta than with Flash.
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On August 20 2010 21:41 setzer wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2010 21:33 InRaged wrote:On August 20 2010 21:18 setzer wrote:On August 20 2010 21:15 InRaged wrote:On August 20 2010 21:03 setzer wrote:
Good job Leta, you blew your chance at an OSL title. Flash's most undeserved victory ever. It's pretty amazing how much luck he has. Luck? You mean it was Flash who pulled ahead in early game with ridiculous mines? But yes, flash is so lucky that out of all terrans he's like the only one who knows how to play tvt. So lucky. I guess you didn't watch the game because Leta was always up 15-25 supply and an extra base. And that was with bad macro. I guess you didn't watch the game because Leta had THREE more geyser way before Flash was able to secure his corner double gas, not just an extra base. And whole this time his gas were below 600. He didn't have "bad macro". He had idiotic unit positioning and decisions, but never bad macro, except for the very end of the game when he didn't use minerals to build vultures. The reason why he was able to get such insane lead to begin with was his extremely lucky mines which allowed him to destroy most of Flash's tanks and outmaneuver Flash. Way to contradict your previous statement. Floating 1500 minerals and 600-700 gas is bad macro, anyway you look at it. And I know you are a Flash fanboy but you should just face reality and admit Flash didn't really deserve the win.
you need to save to react to tech shifts ex your opponent going bcs if you keep spending you can suddenly find yourself having 150 supply worth of tanks and getting hammered by air with no option to counter
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On August 20 2010 21:41 setzer wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2010 21:33 InRaged wrote:On August 20 2010 21:18 setzer wrote:On August 20 2010 21:15 InRaged wrote:On August 20 2010 21:03 setzer wrote:
Good job Leta, you blew your chance at an OSL title. Flash's most undeserved victory ever. It's pretty amazing how much luck he has. Luck? You mean it was Flash who pulled ahead in early game with ridiculous mines? But yes, flash is so lucky that out of all terrans he's like the only one who knows how to play tvt. So lucky. I guess you didn't watch the game because Leta was always up 15-25 supply and an extra base. And that was with bad macro. I guess you didn't watch the game because Leta had THREE more geyser way before Flash was able to secure his corner double gas, not just an extra base. And whole this time his gas were below 600. He didn't have "bad macro". He had idiotic unit positioning and decisions, but never bad macro, except for the very end of the game when he didn't use minerals to build vultures. The reason why he was able to get such insane lead to begin with was his extremely lucky mines which allowed him to destroy most of Flash's tanks and outmaneuver Flash. Way to contradict your previous statement. Floating 1500 minerals and 600-700 gas is bad macro, anyway you look at it. And I know you are a Flash fanboy but you should just face reality and admit Flash didn't really deserve the win.
"Deserve" has nothing to do with it. Leta played great at first but then blundered terribly. Flash played worse at first but then played really well to stay in the game and provide Leta opportunities to screw up.
At the end of the day, if you screw up majorly after playing well, that's still your own fault and your own loss.
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Leta was up 2 bases, 20 supply and map control. Too bad he couldn't finish Flash off. And even when Flash got bases up, he was ONLY equal with Leta. Once Leta let go of 9o'clock mineral expo, thats when he truly lost it.
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Leta and Fantasy need to learn to win with advantage. Simple as that.
They both played much better and much more comfortably before they'd cemented a huge lead. Instead of preserving that lead into a victory, they kept trying to hammer it into a bigger lead with increasingly bone-headed aggression.
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stop dissing flash
"he didin't desevred the win, bla bla bla..."
of course leta did major mistake that caused his lose.
but flash did everything to comeback,
it was flash who built those turrets that killed leta's dropships
it was flash who layed those mines that took out some tanks in the end
it was flash who dropped the troops when leta was about to make a BC army
it was flash who patiently waited for his opponent to make a mistake
flash wasn't just sitting and drooling while leta threw the game
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Vatican City State431 Posts
Its funny how people say that Flash has bad TvT! lol Some people are clueless..
He made the same mistake he did versus Fantasy. His early push was stopped and was on the back foot for almost the entire game.
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Leta showed great preparation in securing a large earlygame lead against Flash. That in itself is not impressive, since every terran on the block has been doing it lately. Flash had the presence of mind in a lost position to still counter his opponent's most likely next move, and it paid off for him. Sure Leta threw the game away, but it's doubtful another Terran would have built those turrets in the first place. Flash is more "organic" than other terrans. He knows what's going on in the map, and he finds the best response, even if it's ugly or unconventional.
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On August 20 2010 21:07 tomatriedes wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2010 21:06 icystorage wrote:*smashes keyboard to wall* fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu its a BoX right? then there is still hope No, there is no hope.
??? Am I missing something? All of the matches seen today were Bo3s. The return matches will be played on the 27th.
Anyway, I still don't understand why Leta didn't produce vultures when he had over 1,000 minerals in the bank. You could argue Flash didn't deserve it, but then neither did Leta.
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On August 20 2010 21:25 FuRong wrote:
This game is just another demonstration that Flash's TvT is not really that good. He still somehow pulls out wins because of his incredible skill level, but he has to come from behind soooooooo often which makes it really difficult. He was significantly behind in at least 3/5 games yesterday against Fanta, and this is a common theme throughout most if his recent TvTs. He ends up at a disadvantage early on, but then pulls level and wins anyway because he is Flash.
As the Chinese commentators pointed out yesterday, it's scary to think how Flash could dominate TvT if he had the power of Boxer and oov behind him like Fanta does...
History: Flash's TvT had the longest XvX win streak ever. I would say that only JvZ was a more dominate mirror. But perhaps this isn't what you mean, I don't think you could argue his TvT was almost as dominate as JvZ.
Current: Since his "minislump" ended Flash is 12-2 in TvT against Fantasy (7 games) Forgg (3 games) Hiya (1 game) and Leta (3 games). Yesterday he played Fanta 7 times, I would not say he was behind in either of the WCG games, He was significantly behind in games 1, 3, and 4 of the MSL series, of which he only pulled out game 1. His record if he lost this game vs Leta today and the one that he pulled out from Fanta in the MSL would be 10-4 (71.42%) against the top terrans. Further Flash has played 14 games in the past 2 weeks to be analyzed whereas the others have all played less than 4 (non-Flash) in the past month.
I would argue that you remember Flash's great come from behind TvTs more than the others, and this is why you feel he's playing from the hole so much. When it comes down to it 1/2 the time you're going to be a BO disadvantage, Flash generally wins these games. Flash on occasion also wins the games where he's behind.
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On August 20 2010 21:55 p14c wrote:
Its funny how people say that Flash has bad TvT! lol Some people are clueless..
He made the same mistake he did versus Fantasy. His early push was stopped and was on the back foot for almost the entire game.
if flash is bad tvt then what does that make leta
nobody supernatural or otherwise pulled letas fingers and made his dships run into those turrets
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EPT
