• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 06:41
CEST 12:41
KST 19:41
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
ByuL, and the Limitations of Standard Play1Team Liquid Map Contest #22: Results and Winners7Code S Season 2 (2026): RO4 and Finals Preview12TL.net Map Contest #22 - Voting & Ladder Map Selection7Code S Season 2 (2026) - RO8 Preview8
Community News
[TLMC] Summer 2026 Ladder Map Rotation05.0.16 patch for SC2 goes live (8 worker start)65ZeroSpace at Steam NextFest - Last free demo31Weekly Cups (June 8-14): Clem and Solar double, PTR tested0RSL: S6 Finals played at BlizzCon 202611
StarCraft 2
General
Mizenhauer's Douyu Cup Preview Is the larve respawn broken? 5.0.16 patch for SC2 goes live (8 worker start) ByuL, and the Limitations of Standard Play Possible bug in the new patch?
Tourneys
Douyu Cup 2026: $20,000 Legends Event (June 26-28) RSL Revival: Season 6 - Qualifiers and Main Event INu's Battles#17 <BO.9> Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament GSL CK #4 20-21th June
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
New Map Maker - Looking for Advice - Love or Hate Work In Progress Melee Maps [D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 531 Experimental Artillery Mutation # 530 One For All Mutation # 529 Opportunities Unleashed
Brood War
General
vespene.gg — BW replays in browser Quality of life changes in BW that you will like ? ASL 22 Proposed Map Pool BW General Discussion [BSL22] Non-Korean Championship from 13 to 28 June
Tourneys
[ASL21] Grand Finals [Megathread] Daily Proleagues The Casual Games of the Week Thread [BSL22] GosuLeague Casts - Tue & Thu 22:00 CEST
Strategy
Creating a full chart of Zerg builds Relatively freeroll strategies Why doesn't anyone use restoration? Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Path of Exile Beyond All Reason Nintendo Switch Thread ZeroSpace at Steam NextFest - Last free demo
Dota 2
Looking for a Dota Mentor Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread [H]Internet/Gaming Cafe Tips and Tricks
Fan Clubs
The HerO Fan Club! The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! Series you have seen recently... [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books [TV/BOOK] *SPOILERS* Game of Thrones Discussion
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 McBoner: A hockey love story Formula 1 Discussion Cricket [SPORT]
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread Facing Challenges in Mobile App Development
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Listen To The Coaches!
TrAiDoS
An Exploration of th…
waywardstrategy
I'm an arrogant trash talke…
FlaShFTW
Gauntlet SC2: A Retrospectiv…
Ctone23
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 7093 users

[MSL] Nate MSL Quarterfinals Day 2 - Page 107

Forum Index > Brood War Tournaments
Post a Reply
Prev 1 105 106 107 108 Next
De4ngus
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States6533 Posts
January 08 2010 00:02 GMT
#2121
Wow, I just watched the vods. Sooooo, Flash's "new TvP style" = timing attack every game?
GANDHISAUCE
Avidkeystamper
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
United States8556 Posts
January 08 2010 00:02 GMT
#2122
Can't say I didn't see this coming with Flash bulldozing everything for the last few months. But Kwanro ez modes Light? What's with that.
Jaedong
De4ngus
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States6533 Posts
January 08 2010 00:10 GMT
#2123
Zerglings are pretty good, lol. Also Light never performs as well as he should in individual leagues.
GANDHISAUCE
nebffa
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
Australia776 Posts
January 08 2010 00:12 GMT
#2124
i honestly believe that kwanro is the most dangerous opponent flash has had to face so far.

hopefully it creates a really exciting semifinals
yhnmk
Profile Joined August 2009
Canada630 Posts
January 08 2010 00:13 GMT
#2125
On January 08 2010 09:02 Avidkeystamper wrote:
Can't say I didn't see this coming with Flash bulldozing everything for the last few months. But Kwanro ez modes Light? What's with that.
Kwanro is good despite the rants of anti fans?
Womwomwom
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
5930 Posts
January 08 2010 00:51 GMT
#2126
On January 08 2010 09:13 yhnmk wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 08 2010 09:02 Avidkeystamper wrote:
Can't say I didn't see this coming with Flash bulldozing everything for the last few months. But Kwanro ez modes Light? What's with that.
Kwanro is good despite the rants of anti fans?


Yeah but you'd really expect Light to give a much better fight than that.
Xiphos
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Canada7507 Posts
January 08 2010 00:57 GMT
#2127
Light chocked? That's something that I've never seen before (sarcasm).
2014 - ᕙ( •̀ل͜•́) ϡ Raise your bows brood warriors! ᕙ( •̀ل͜•́) ϡ
Avidkeystamper
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
United States8556 Posts
January 08 2010 00:57 GMT
#2128
On January 08 2010 09:13 yhnmk wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 08 2010 09:02 Avidkeystamper wrote:
Can't say I didn't see this coming with Flash bulldozing everything for the last few months. But Kwanro ez modes Light? What's with that.
Kwanro is good despite the rants of anti fans?

Light's not bad either http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/players/109_Light/games/vs/Z
Jaedong
FakeSteve[TPR]
Profile Blog Joined July 2003
Valhalla18444 Posts
January 08 2010 00:58 GMT
#2129
On January 08 2010 02:32 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
Well Leta/EffOrt aren't the youngest players to ever win a Starleague, nor did they utterly revolutionize a match-up (TvP) and set trends in other match-ups. This isn't the first time Flash has been dominating in his short career, and even during his "slumps" he has been the number one or two terran since almost the beginning of his career.

People seem to forget how important the double armory build was and still is.


that's not a flash invention

am i really gonna have to educate everyone as to what the "Flash Build" is?
Moderatormy tatsu loops r fuckin nice
Mystlord *
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States10264 Posts
January 08 2010 01:00 GMT
#2130
Give Kwanro more credit. Before, he was a mindless aggressive Zerg player. Lately though, he's been showing a lot more thought in his play.

FakeSteve: I'd be interested to know the origins of the double armory build.
It is impossible to be a citizen if you don't make an effort to understand the most basic activities of your government. It is very difficult to thrive in an increasingly competitive world if you're a nation of doods.
t_co
Profile Blog Joined July 2007
United States702 Posts
January 08 2010 01:04 GMT
#2131
On January 08 2010 09:58 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 08 2010 02:32 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
Well Leta/EffOrt aren't the youngest players to ever win a Starleague, nor did they utterly revolutionize a match-up (TvP) and set trends in other match-ups. This isn't the first time Flash has been dominating in his short career, and even during his "slumps" he has been the number one or two terran since almost the beginning of his career.

People seem to forget how important the double armory build was and still is.


that's not a flash invention

am i really gonna have to educate everyone as to what the "Flash Build" is?


FS, are you referring to Oov's double armory build?
"Look, don't congratulate us when we buy a company, congratulate us when we sell it. Because any fool can overpay and buy a company, so long as there is money to buy it." --Henry Kravis
BanZu
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
United States3329 Posts
January 08 2010 01:08 GMT
#2132
On January 08 2010 09:58 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 08 2010 02:32 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
Well Leta/EffOrt aren't the youngest players to ever win a Starleague, nor did they utterly revolutionize a match-up (TvP) and set trends in other match-ups. This isn't the first time Flash has been dominating in his short career, and even during his "slumps" he has been the number one or two terran since almost the beginning of his career.

People seem to forget how important the double armory build was and still is.


that's not a flash invention

am i really gonna have to educate everyone as to what the "Flash Build" is?

Yay! Story time! Let's go!

Sun Tzu once said, "Defiler becomes useless at the presences of a vessel."
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
January 08 2010 01:19 GMT
#2133
On January 08 2010 09:02 De4ngus wrote:
Wow, I just watched the vods. Sooooo, Flash's "new TvP style" = timing attack every game?

To be honest, Best's openings in games 1 and 3 pretty much demanded a response. You can't honestly expect Flash to sit on his hands while Best plays ultra-greedy.

I said this after game 1: The fact that Best lost falls on himself. He should have known very well that Flash plays more aggressively against him than against most other Protosses. With Flash's timing and game sense, a greedy build is a surefire way to lose to an aggressive Flash. Best should know that his late game management is his strength, yet in none of those games did he play in a way that would secure him a good late game.
Moderator
Xiphos
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Canada7507 Posts
January 08 2010 01:23 GMT
#2134
After watching Flash's game lately, I came to one conclusion: You have to play straight up against him. DON'T try anything fancy like hidden expo because Flash will 'sense' it. Basically at game 3 of Calm vs Flash, if Calm didn't make that much mistake, he could've take that game very easily.
2014 - ᕙ( •̀ل͜•́) ϡ Raise your bows brood warriors! ᕙ( •̀ل͜•́) ϡ
TwoToneTerran
Profile Joined March 2009
United States8841 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-01-08 01:26:47
January 08 2010 01:24 GMT
#2135
On January 08 2010 09:58 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 08 2010 02:32 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
Well Leta/EffOrt aren't the youngest players to ever win a Starleague, nor did they utterly revolutionize a match-up (TvP) and set trends in other match-ups. This isn't the first time Flash has been dominating in his short career, and even during his "slumps" he has been the number one or two terran since almost the beginning of his career.

People seem to forget how important the double armory build was and still is.


that's not a flash invention

am i really gonna have to educate everyone as to what the "Flash Build" is?


Hey man, feel free to tell us so we can update liquipedia.
Remember Violet.
InFiNitY[pG]
Profile Blog Joined December 2002
Germany3474 Posts
January 08 2010 01:33 GMT
#2136
watch Flash's tvp games on Katrina or medusa and you will know. the main aspects of his build were that he built goliaths instead of vulltures to defend against an early harass and skipped turrets almost completely, allowing him to take and defend a much earlier third in exchange for being unable to vulture harass, usually with one or (I think) two factories+full tech and two armories, before throwing up like 8 more factories and not moving out before having a maxed or nearly maxed fully upgraded army.
I think it would've been possible to abuse this build by going for an extremely greedy build or of course the arbiter rush build, which I think was specifically designed to counter this very defensive/greedy play that many terrans copied afterwards, but obviously it was something protoss players hadn't faced before which is why it worked so well, also Flash's macro and game sense are so strong that he is not as easily abused as other terran players
"I just pressed stimpack, and somehow I won the battle" -Flash
johnnyspazz
Profile Joined April 2009
Taiwan1470 Posts
January 08 2010 01:48 GMT
#2137
So when people say flash is not considered a bonjwa yet because he hasn't been dominating long enough, does that mean the previous bonjwa's were dominating as much as flash for like a year?
Sorry for the noob question, I'm fairly new to the SC scene.
"The big difference between sex for money and sex for free is that sex for money usually costs a lot less." -Brendan Behan
SimonB
Profile Joined September 2008
United States1088 Posts
January 08 2010 01:49 GMT
#2138
Pretty annoying reading the game thread.

As much as people whined terribly about Flash's turtling. He was on 4 base versus 6 base Protoss (who was turtling too) who had a billion arbiters filled with energy. When was the last time a Terran won under these circumstances?

Best would've won all those games against any other Terran, including the Flash of 6 months ago. Best did what he usually has done; Flash just found a counter.

On January 08 2010 09:02 De4ngus wrote:
Wow, I just watched the vods. Sooooo, Flash's "new TvP style" = timing attack every game?

Lately, Protoss have been getting their third very early with impunity, which has really messed up the TvP metagame. It's not so much a matter of a standard build, but its a direct counter against the greedy PvT builds of the last year or so. To me, its analogous to the triple-expand build that Savior used to do against Protoss. Bisu countered that with sair-DT, and so zergs can't do that anymore. Hopefully, this will produce a similar equalizing effect in TvP.
TwoToneTerran
Profile Joined March 2009
United States8841 Posts
January 08 2010 01:56 GMT
#2139
On January 08 2010 10:48 johnnyspazz wrote:
So when people say flash is not considered a bonjwa yet because he hasn't been dominating long enough, does that mean the previous bonjwa's were dominating as much as flash for like a year?
Sorry for the noob question, I'm fairly new to the SC scene.


Previous bonjwas did a few things: A: won lots of titles. B: DOMINATED -- atleast over a 70$ winrate during their awesome period. and, this is probably the most important one C: Crushed their closest competition.

Look back on the bonjwas and their rivals during their 'reigns' and they all, with eventuality, crushed their rivals. Nada played Chojja/Yellow/Boxer several times during his simultaneous OSL/MSL. Boxer, of course, crushed Yellow, Chrh, etc, all on his run before being stopped short by Garimto.

Oov did the same, with exception to July, who cut his run in half. It took one season for him to recover and crush July unquestionably, though.

For Flash to do what the bonjwas did and really be a bonjwa, he's got to end up winning some titles. Do it for a couple or three seasons, and play his closest competition (Jaedong/Stork/Bisu/Calm/lolthere'snoterranworthmentioning) multiple times to truly demonstrate he is on an entirely different level.
Remember Violet.
Titanidis
Profile Joined April 2006
Greece132 Posts
January 08 2010 02:10 GMT
#2140
On January 08 2010 06:27 538 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 08 2010 06:14 maneatingshoe wrote:
On January 08 2010 04:59 Titanidis wrote:
people saying flash's dominance is reducing viewership should remember the numbers of people watching the 3 streams today


Agreed there were so many people on every stream! if only MBCgame knew what audience they`re missing out on! I really just want games in english to be honest


Those viewers actually had more to do with the chinese streams failing than Flash playing, actually. And in turn, probably an english stream is not everyone's dream:-p
Even though i think most of us on TL would welcome it


I didnt know that, but still after the end of the light vs kwanro series the viewers suddenly doubled. Anyway viewers are viewers wherever they come from.
Prev 1 105 106 107 108 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Douyu Cup 2020
05:00
2026 - Day 2
Neeb vs Impact
MacSed vs Cyan
Scarlett vs Kelazhur
INnoVation vs Dear
WardiTV1019
CranKy Ducklings162
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Ryung 709
Lowko317
elazer 21
StarCraft: Brood War
Soulkey 361
Zeus 279
Jaedong 266
Hyuk 260
Soma 194
Light 166
ggaemo 105
Rush 102
Dewaltoss 100
EffOrt 94
[ Show more ]
Pusan 86
Killer 74
Sharp 69
Mind 60
Aegong 54
Larva 49
PianO 45
ToSsGirL 44
Snow 41
Liquid`Ret 37
hero 23
Hm[arnc] 21
sorry 17
yabsab 15
GoRush 14
zelot 14
[sc1f]eonzerg 13
Sacsri 13
Noble 0
Dota 2
BananaSlamJamma405
League of Legends
JimRising 437
Counter-Strike
byalli329
x6flipin50
Other Games
singsing410
crisheroes143
Mew2King105
Happy55
QueenE27
Organizations
Dota 2
PGL Dota 2 - Main Stream6685
Other Games
gamesdonequick637
StarCraft: Brood War
UltimateBattle 41
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 13 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• 3DClanTV 118
• CranKy Ducklings SOOP16
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• iopq 3
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Upcoming Events
Big Brain Bouts
5h 19m
Jumy vs eGGz
Harstem vs sebesdes
TriGGeR vs HeRoMaRinE
Douyu Cup 2020
18h 19m
Maestros of the Game
1d 1h
herO vs Classic
Maru vs Serral
BSL22 NKC (BSL vs China)
1d 3h
Douyu Cup 2020
1d 18h
BSL22 NKC (BSL vs China)
2 days
Online Event
2 days
RSL Revival
2 days
WardiTV Weekly
3 days
RSL Revival
3 days
[ Show More ]
RSL Revival
4 days
Bombastic Starleague
4 days
Kung Fu Cup
5 days
OSC
5 days
CrankTV Team League
6 days
Bombastic Starleague
6 days
Replay Cast
6 days
The PondCast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSCL: Masked Kings S4
WardiTV Spring 2026
Heroes Pulsing #2

Ongoing

IPSL Spring 2026
Acropolis #4
YSL S3
BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
CSL Season 21: Qualifier 1
CSL Season 21: Qualifier 2
SCTL 2026 Spring
Douyu Cup 2026
Maestros of the Game 2
Murky Cup 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
IEM Rio 2026

Upcoming

CSL 2026 Summer (S21)
CSLAN 4
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Revival: Season 6
CranK Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League
HSC XXIX
BCC 2026
Light Tournament 2026
Eternal Conflict S2 Finale
Eternal Conflict S2 E1
Heroes Pulsing #3
FISSURE Playground #5
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.