• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 04:31
CET 10:31
KST 18:31
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Revival - 2025 Season Finals Preview8RSL Season 3 - Playoffs Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups C & D Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups A & B Preview2TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners12
Community News
Weekly Cups (Jan 5-11): Clem wins big offline, Trigger upsets0$21,000 Rongyi Cup Season 3 announced (Jan 22-Feb 7)12Weekly Cups (Dec 29-Jan 4): Protoss rolls, 2v2 returns7[BSL21] Non-Korean Championship - Starts Jan 103SC2 All-Star Invitational: Jan 17-1822
StarCraft 2
General
SC2 Spotted on the EWC 2026 list? Weekly Cups (Jan 5-11): Clem wins big offline, Trigger upsets Weekly Cups (Dec 29-Jan 4): Protoss rolls, 2v2 returns Spontaneous hotkey change zerg Chinese SC2 server to reopen; live all-star event in Hangzhou
Tourneys
$25,000 Streamerzone StarCraft Pro Series announced $21,000 Rongyi Cup Season 3 announced (Jan 22-Feb 7) WardiTV Winter Cup WardiTV Mondays SC2 AI Tournament 2026
Strategy
Simple Questions Simple Answers
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 508 Violent Night Mutation # 507 Well Trained Mutation # 506 Warp Zone Mutation # 505 Rise From Ashes
Brood War
General
Potential ASL qualifier breakthroughs? BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ BW General Discussion StarCraft & BroodWar Campaign Speedrun Quest Data analysis on 70 million replays
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL21] Grand Finals - Sunday 21:00 CET [BSL21] Non-Korean Championship - Starts Jan 10 SLON Grand Finals – Season 2
Strategy
Game Theory for Starcraft Simple Questions, Simple Answers Current Meta [G] How to get started on ladder as a new Z player
Other Games
General Games
Beyond All Reason Nintendo Switch Thread Awesome Games Done Quick 2026! Mechabellum Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Trading/Investing Thread
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List TL+ Announced
Blogs
My 2025 Magic: The Gathering…
DARKING
Physical Exercise (HIIT) Bef…
TrAiDoS
Life Update and thoughts.
FuDDx
How do archons sleep?
8882
James Bond movies ranking - pa…
Topin
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1664 users

[MSL] Nate MSL Quarterfinals Day 2 - Page 107

Forum Index > Brood War Tournaments
Post a Reply
Prev 1 105 106 107 108 Next
De4ngus
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States6533 Posts
January 08 2010 00:02 GMT
#2121
Wow, I just watched the vods. Sooooo, Flash's "new TvP style" = timing attack every game?
GANDHISAUCE
Avidkeystamper
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
United States8556 Posts
January 08 2010 00:02 GMT
#2122
Can't say I didn't see this coming with Flash bulldozing everything for the last few months. But Kwanro ez modes Light? What's with that.
Jaedong
De4ngus
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States6533 Posts
January 08 2010 00:10 GMT
#2123
Zerglings are pretty good, lol. Also Light never performs as well as he should in individual leagues.
GANDHISAUCE
nebffa
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
Australia776 Posts
January 08 2010 00:12 GMT
#2124
i honestly believe that kwanro is the most dangerous opponent flash has had to face so far.

hopefully it creates a really exciting semifinals
yhnmk
Profile Joined August 2009
Canada630 Posts
January 08 2010 00:13 GMT
#2125
On January 08 2010 09:02 Avidkeystamper wrote:
Can't say I didn't see this coming with Flash bulldozing everything for the last few months. But Kwanro ez modes Light? What's with that.
Kwanro is good despite the rants of anti fans?
Womwomwom
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
5930 Posts
January 08 2010 00:51 GMT
#2126
On January 08 2010 09:13 yhnmk wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 08 2010 09:02 Avidkeystamper wrote:
Can't say I didn't see this coming with Flash bulldozing everything for the last few months. But Kwanro ez modes Light? What's with that.
Kwanro is good despite the rants of anti fans?


Yeah but you'd really expect Light to give a much better fight than that.
Xiphos
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Canada7507 Posts
January 08 2010 00:57 GMT
#2127
Light chocked? That's something that I've never seen before (sarcasm).
2014 - ᕙ( •̀ل͜•́) ϡ Raise your bows brood warriors! ᕙ( •̀ل͜•́) ϡ
Avidkeystamper
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
United States8556 Posts
January 08 2010 00:57 GMT
#2128
On January 08 2010 09:13 yhnmk wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 08 2010 09:02 Avidkeystamper wrote:
Can't say I didn't see this coming with Flash bulldozing everything for the last few months. But Kwanro ez modes Light? What's with that.
Kwanro is good despite the rants of anti fans?

Light's not bad either http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/players/109_Light/games/vs/Z
Jaedong
FakeSteve[TPR]
Profile Blog Joined July 2003
Valhalla18444 Posts
January 08 2010 00:58 GMT
#2129
On January 08 2010 02:32 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
Well Leta/EffOrt aren't the youngest players to ever win a Starleague, nor did they utterly revolutionize a match-up (TvP) and set trends in other match-ups. This isn't the first time Flash has been dominating in his short career, and even during his "slumps" he has been the number one or two terran since almost the beginning of his career.

People seem to forget how important the double armory build was and still is.


that's not a flash invention

am i really gonna have to educate everyone as to what the "Flash Build" is?
Moderatormy tatsu loops r fuckin nice
Mystlord *
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States10264 Posts
January 08 2010 01:00 GMT
#2130
Give Kwanro more credit. Before, he was a mindless aggressive Zerg player. Lately though, he's been showing a lot more thought in his play.

FakeSteve: I'd be interested to know the origins of the double armory build.
It is impossible to be a citizen if you don't make an effort to understand the most basic activities of your government. It is very difficult to thrive in an increasingly competitive world if you're a nation of doods.
t_co
Profile Blog Joined July 2007
United States702 Posts
January 08 2010 01:04 GMT
#2131
On January 08 2010 09:58 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 08 2010 02:32 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
Well Leta/EffOrt aren't the youngest players to ever win a Starleague, nor did they utterly revolutionize a match-up (TvP) and set trends in other match-ups. This isn't the first time Flash has been dominating in his short career, and even during his "slumps" he has been the number one or two terran since almost the beginning of his career.

People seem to forget how important the double armory build was and still is.


that's not a flash invention

am i really gonna have to educate everyone as to what the "Flash Build" is?


FS, are you referring to Oov's double armory build?
"Look, don't congratulate us when we buy a company, congratulate us when we sell it. Because any fool can overpay and buy a company, so long as there is money to buy it." --Henry Kravis
BanZu
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
United States3329 Posts
January 08 2010 01:08 GMT
#2132
On January 08 2010 09:58 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 08 2010 02:32 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
Well Leta/EffOrt aren't the youngest players to ever win a Starleague, nor did they utterly revolutionize a match-up (TvP) and set trends in other match-ups. This isn't the first time Flash has been dominating in his short career, and even during his "slumps" he has been the number one or two terran since almost the beginning of his career.

People seem to forget how important the double armory build was and still is.


that's not a flash invention

am i really gonna have to educate everyone as to what the "Flash Build" is?

Yay! Story time! Let's go!

Sun Tzu once said, "Defiler becomes useless at the presences of a vessel."
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
January 08 2010 01:19 GMT
#2133
On January 08 2010 09:02 De4ngus wrote:
Wow, I just watched the vods. Sooooo, Flash's "new TvP style" = timing attack every game?

To be honest, Best's openings in games 1 and 3 pretty much demanded a response. You can't honestly expect Flash to sit on his hands while Best plays ultra-greedy.

I said this after game 1: The fact that Best lost falls on himself. He should have known very well that Flash plays more aggressively against him than against most other Protosses. With Flash's timing and game sense, a greedy build is a surefire way to lose to an aggressive Flash. Best should know that his late game management is his strength, yet in none of those games did he play in a way that would secure him a good late game.
Moderator
Xiphos
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Canada7507 Posts
January 08 2010 01:23 GMT
#2134
After watching Flash's game lately, I came to one conclusion: You have to play straight up against him. DON'T try anything fancy like hidden expo because Flash will 'sense' it. Basically at game 3 of Calm vs Flash, if Calm didn't make that much mistake, he could've take that game very easily.
2014 - ᕙ( •̀ل͜•́) ϡ Raise your bows brood warriors! ᕙ( •̀ل͜•́) ϡ
TwoToneTerran
Profile Joined March 2009
United States8841 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-01-08 01:26:47
January 08 2010 01:24 GMT
#2135
On January 08 2010 09:58 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 08 2010 02:32 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
Well Leta/EffOrt aren't the youngest players to ever win a Starleague, nor did they utterly revolutionize a match-up (TvP) and set trends in other match-ups. This isn't the first time Flash has been dominating in his short career, and even during his "slumps" he has been the number one or two terran since almost the beginning of his career.

People seem to forget how important the double armory build was and still is.


that's not a flash invention

am i really gonna have to educate everyone as to what the "Flash Build" is?


Hey man, feel free to tell us so we can update liquipedia.
Remember Violet.
InFiNitY[pG]
Profile Blog Joined December 2002
Germany3474 Posts
January 08 2010 01:33 GMT
#2136
watch Flash's tvp games on Katrina or medusa and you will know. the main aspects of his build were that he built goliaths instead of vulltures to defend against an early harass and skipped turrets almost completely, allowing him to take and defend a much earlier third in exchange for being unable to vulture harass, usually with one or (I think) two factories+full tech and two armories, before throwing up like 8 more factories and not moving out before having a maxed or nearly maxed fully upgraded army.
I think it would've been possible to abuse this build by going for an extremely greedy build or of course the arbiter rush build, which I think was specifically designed to counter this very defensive/greedy play that many terrans copied afterwards, but obviously it was something protoss players hadn't faced before which is why it worked so well, also Flash's macro and game sense are so strong that he is not as easily abused as other terran players
"I just pressed stimpack, and somehow I won the battle" -Flash
johnnyspazz
Profile Joined April 2009
Taiwan1470 Posts
January 08 2010 01:48 GMT
#2137
So when people say flash is not considered a bonjwa yet because he hasn't been dominating long enough, does that mean the previous bonjwa's were dominating as much as flash for like a year?
Sorry for the noob question, I'm fairly new to the SC scene.
"The big difference between sex for money and sex for free is that sex for money usually costs a lot less." -Brendan Behan
SimonB
Profile Joined September 2008
United States1088 Posts
January 08 2010 01:49 GMT
#2138
Pretty annoying reading the game thread.

As much as people whined terribly about Flash's turtling. He was on 4 base versus 6 base Protoss (who was turtling too) who had a billion arbiters filled with energy. When was the last time a Terran won under these circumstances?

Best would've won all those games against any other Terran, including the Flash of 6 months ago. Best did what he usually has done; Flash just found a counter.

On January 08 2010 09:02 De4ngus wrote:
Wow, I just watched the vods. Sooooo, Flash's "new TvP style" = timing attack every game?

Lately, Protoss have been getting their third very early with impunity, which has really messed up the TvP metagame. It's not so much a matter of a standard build, but its a direct counter against the greedy PvT builds of the last year or so. To me, its analogous to the triple-expand build that Savior used to do against Protoss. Bisu countered that with sair-DT, and so zergs can't do that anymore. Hopefully, this will produce a similar equalizing effect in TvP.
TwoToneTerran
Profile Joined March 2009
United States8841 Posts
January 08 2010 01:56 GMT
#2139
On January 08 2010 10:48 johnnyspazz wrote:
So when people say flash is not considered a bonjwa yet because he hasn't been dominating long enough, does that mean the previous bonjwa's were dominating as much as flash for like a year?
Sorry for the noob question, I'm fairly new to the SC scene.


Previous bonjwas did a few things: A: won lots of titles. B: DOMINATED -- atleast over a 70$ winrate during their awesome period. and, this is probably the most important one C: Crushed their closest competition.

Look back on the bonjwas and their rivals during their 'reigns' and they all, with eventuality, crushed their rivals. Nada played Chojja/Yellow/Boxer several times during his simultaneous OSL/MSL. Boxer, of course, crushed Yellow, Chrh, etc, all on his run before being stopped short by Garimto.

Oov did the same, with exception to July, who cut his run in half. It took one season for him to recover and crush July unquestionably, though.

For Flash to do what the bonjwas did and really be a bonjwa, he's got to end up winning some titles. Do it for a couple or three seasons, and play his closest competition (Jaedong/Stork/Bisu/Calm/lolthere'snoterranworthmentioning) multiple times to truly demonstrate he is on an entirely different level.
Remember Violet.
Titanidis
Profile Joined April 2006
Greece132 Posts
January 08 2010 02:10 GMT
#2140
On January 08 2010 06:27 538 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 08 2010 06:14 maneatingshoe wrote:
On January 08 2010 04:59 Titanidis wrote:
people saying flash's dominance is reducing viewership should remember the numbers of people watching the 3 streams today


Agreed there were so many people on every stream! if only MBCgame knew what audience they`re missing out on! I really just want games in english to be honest


Those viewers actually had more to do with the chinese streams failing than Flash playing, actually. And in turn, probably an english stream is not everyone's dream:-p
Even though i think most of us on TL would welcome it


I didnt know that, but still after the end of the light vs kwanro series the viewers suddenly doubled. Anyway viewers are viewers wherever they come from.
Prev 1 105 106 107 108 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 2h 29m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft: Brood War
Sea 3670
Leta 402
Larva 385
Stork 322
actioN 316
Mini 224
Mong 190
Zeus 142
ZerO 140
910 137
[ Show more ]
Soma 128
EffOrt 94
Nal_rA 94
Hyuk 87
Shuttle 71
Killer 70
Hyun 65
Rush 54
ggaemo 45
zelot 28
Mind 19
soO 15
Bale 14
Noble 13
Sacsri 13
scan(afreeca) 11
Terrorterran 8
Dota 2
NeuroSwarm120
ODPixel71
XcaliburYe0
League of Legends
JimRising 565
C9.Mang0470
Counter-Strike
shoxiejesuss860
olofmeister786
allub259
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King109
Other Games
summit1g8268
ceh9521
Happy424
RuFF_SC231
Pyrionflax20
ZerO(Twitch)11
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick3251
StarCraft: Brood War
UltimateBattle 74
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 14 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• iopq 3
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Lourlo1545
• Jankos1438
• Stunt562
Upcoming Events
WardiTV Invitational
2h 29m
PiGosaur Cup
15h 29m
WardiTV Invitational
1d 2h
The PondCast
2 days
OSC
2 days
OSC
3 days
All Star Teams
3 days
INnoVation vs soO
sOs vs Scarlett
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
4 days
All Star Teams
4 days
MMA vs DongRaeGu
Rogue vs Oliveira
Sparkling Tuna Cup
5 days
[ Show More ]
OSC
5 days
Replay Cast
5 days
Wardi Open
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-01-12
Big Gabe Cup #3
NA Kuram Kup

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
CSL 2025 WINTER (S19)
OSC Championship Season 13
Underdog Cup #3
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual
eXTREMESLAND 2025
SL Budapest Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S1: W4
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
HSC XXVIII
Rongyi Cup S3
Thunderfire SC2 All-star 2025
Nations Cup 2026
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League Season 23
ESL Pro League Season 23
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.