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[MSL] Nate MSL Quarterfinals Day 2 - Page 107

Forum Index > Brood War Tournaments
Post a Reply
Prev 1 105 106 107 108 Next
De4ngus
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States6533 Posts
January 08 2010 00:02 GMT
#2121
Wow, I just watched the vods. Sooooo, Flash's "new TvP style" = timing attack every game?
GANDHISAUCE
Avidkeystamper
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
United States8556 Posts
January 08 2010 00:02 GMT
#2122
Can't say I didn't see this coming with Flash bulldozing everything for the last few months. But Kwanro ez modes Light? What's with that.
Jaedong
De4ngus
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States6533 Posts
January 08 2010 00:10 GMT
#2123
Zerglings are pretty good, lol. Also Light never performs as well as he should in individual leagues.
GANDHISAUCE
nebffa
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
Australia776 Posts
January 08 2010 00:12 GMT
#2124
i honestly believe that kwanro is the most dangerous opponent flash has had to face so far.

hopefully it creates a really exciting semifinals
yhnmk
Profile Joined August 2009
Canada630 Posts
January 08 2010 00:13 GMT
#2125
On January 08 2010 09:02 Avidkeystamper wrote:
Can't say I didn't see this coming with Flash bulldozing everything for the last few months. But Kwanro ez modes Light? What's with that.
Kwanro is good despite the rants of anti fans?
Womwomwom
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
5930 Posts
January 08 2010 00:51 GMT
#2126
On January 08 2010 09:13 yhnmk wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 08 2010 09:02 Avidkeystamper wrote:
Can't say I didn't see this coming with Flash bulldozing everything for the last few months. But Kwanro ez modes Light? What's with that.
Kwanro is good despite the rants of anti fans?


Yeah but you'd really expect Light to give a much better fight than that.
Xiphos
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Canada7507 Posts
January 08 2010 00:57 GMT
#2127
Light chocked? That's something that I've never seen before (sarcasm).
2014 - ᕙ( •̀ل͜•́) ϡ Raise your bows brood warriors! ᕙ( •̀ل͜•́) ϡ
Avidkeystamper
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
United States8556 Posts
January 08 2010 00:57 GMT
#2128
On January 08 2010 09:13 yhnmk wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 08 2010 09:02 Avidkeystamper wrote:
Can't say I didn't see this coming with Flash bulldozing everything for the last few months. But Kwanro ez modes Light? What's with that.
Kwanro is good despite the rants of anti fans?

Light's not bad either http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/players/109_Light/games/vs/Z
Jaedong
FakeSteve[TPR]
Profile Blog Joined July 2003
Valhalla18444 Posts
January 08 2010 00:58 GMT
#2129
On January 08 2010 02:32 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
Well Leta/EffOrt aren't the youngest players to ever win a Starleague, nor did they utterly revolutionize a match-up (TvP) and set trends in other match-ups. This isn't the first time Flash has been dominating in his short career, and even during his "slumps" he has been the number one or two terran since almost the beginning of his career.

People seem to forget how important the double armory build was and still is.


that's not a flash invention

am i really gonna have to educate everyone as to what the "Flash Build" is?
Moderatormy tatsu loops r fuckin nice
Mystlord *
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States10264 Posts
January 08 2010 01:00 GMT
#2130
Give Kwanro more credit. Before, he was a mindless aggressive Zerg player. Lately though, he's been showing a lot more thought in his play.

FakeSteve: I'd be interested to know the origins of the double armory build.
It is impossible to be a citizen if you don't make an effort to understand the most basic activities of your government. It is very difficult to thrive in an increasingly competitive world if you're a nation of doods.
t_co
Profile Blog Joined July 2007
United States702 Posts
January 08 2010 01:04 GMT
#2131
On January 08 2010 09:58 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 08 2010 02:32 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
Well Leta/EffOrt aren't the youngest players to ever win a Starleague, nor did they utterly revolutionize a match-up (TvP) and set trends in other match-ups. This isn't the first time Flash has been dominating in his short career, and even during his "slumps" he has been the number one or two terran since almost the beginning of his career.

People seem to forget how important the double armory build was and still is.


that's not a flash invention

am i really gonna have to educate everyone as to what the "Flash Build" is?


FS, are you referring to Oov's double armory build?
"Look, don't congratulate us when we buy a company, congratulate us when we sell it. Because any fool can overpay and buy a company, so long as there is money to buy it." --Henry Kravis
BanZu
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
United States3329 Posts
January 08 2010 01:08 GMT
#2132
On January 08 2010 09:58 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 08 2010 02:32 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
Well Leta/EffOrt aren't the youngest players to ever win a Starleague, nor did they utterly revolutionize a match-up (TvP) and set trends in other match-ups. This isn't the first time Flash has been dominating in his short career, and even during his "slumps" he has been the number one or two terran since almost the beginning of his career.

People seem to forget how important the double armory build was and still is.


that's not a flash invention

am i really gonna have to educate everyone as to what the "Flash Build" is?

Yay! Story time! Let's go!

Sun Tzu once said, "Defiler becomes useless at the presences of a vessel."
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
January 08 2010 01:19 GMT
#2133
On January 08 2010 09:02 De4ngus wrote:
Wow, I just watched the vods. Sooooo, Flash's "new TvP style" = timing attack every game?

To be honest, Best's openings in games 1 and 3 pretty much demanded a response. You can't honestly expect Flash to sit on his hands while Best plays ultra-greedy.

I said this after game 1: The fact that Best lost falls on himself. He should have known very well that Flash plays more aggressively against him than against most other Protosses. With Flash's timing and game sense, a greedy build is a surefire way to lose to an aggressive Flash. Best should know that his late game management is his strength, yet in none of those games did he play in a way that would secure him a good late game.
Moderator
Xiphos
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Canada7507 Posts
January 08 2010 01:23 GMT
#2134
After watching Flash's game lately, I came to one conclusion: You have to play straight up against him. DON'T try anything fancy like hidden expo because Flash will 'sense' it. Basically at game 3 of Calm vs Flash, if Calm didn't make that much mistake, he could've take that game very easily.
2014 - ᕙ( •̀ل͜•́) ϡ Raise your bows brood warriors! ᕙ( •̀ل͜•́) ϡ
TwoToneTerran
Profile Joined March 2009
United States8841 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-01-08 01:26:47
January 08 2010 01:24 GMT
#2135
On January 08 2010 09:58 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 08 2010 02:32 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
Well Leta/EffOrt aren't the youngest players to ever win a Starleague, nor did they utterly revolutionize a match-up (TvP) and set trends in other match-ups. This isn't the first time Flash has been dominating in his short career, and even during his "slumps" he has been the number one or two terran since almost the beginning of his career.

People seem to forget how important the double armory build was and still is.


that's not a flash invention

am i really gonna have to educate everyone as to what the "Flash Build" is?


Hey man, feel free to tell us so we can update liquipedia.
Remember Violet.
InFiNitY[pG]
Profile Blog Joined December 2002
Germany3474 Posts
January 08 2010 01:33 GMT
#2136
watch Flash's tvp games on Katrina or medusa and you will know. the main aspects of his build were that he built goliaths instead of vulltures to defend against an early harass and skipped turrets almost completely, allowing him to take and defend a much earlier third in exchange for being unable to vulture harass, usually with one or (I think) two factories+full tech and two armories, before throwing up like 8 more factories and not moving out before having a maxed or nearly maxed fully upgraded army.
I think it would've been possible to abuse this build by going for an extremely greedy build or of course the arbiter rush build, which I think was specifically designed to counter this very defensive/greedy play that many terrans copied afterwards, but obviously it was something protoss players hadn't faced before which is why it worked so well, also Flash's macro and game sense are so strong that he is not as easily abused as other terran players
"I just pressed stimpack, and somehow I won the battle" -Flash
johnnyspazz
Profile Joined April 2009
Taiwan1470 Posts
January 08 2010 01:48 GMT
#2137
So when people say flash is not considered a bonjwa yet because he hasn't been dominating long enough, does that mean the previous bonjwa's were dominating as much as flash for like a year?
Sorry for the noob question, I'm fairly new to the SC scene.
"The big difference between sex for money and sex for free is that sex for money usually costs a lot less." -Brendan Behan
SimonB
Profile Joined September 2008
United States1088 Posts
January 08 2010 01:49 GMT
#2138
Pretty annoying reading the game thread.

As much as people whined terribly about Flash's turtling. He was on 4 base versus 6 base Protoss (who was turtling too) who had a billion arbiters filled with energy. When was the last time a Terran won under these circumstances?

Best would've won all those games against any other Terran, including the Flash of 6 months ago. Best did what he usually has done; Flash just found a counter.

On January 08 2010 09:02 De4ngus wrote:
Wow, I just watched the vods. Sooooo, Flash's "new TvP style" = timing attack every game?

Lately, Protoss have been getting their third very early with impunity, which has really messed up the TvP metagame. It's not so much a matter of a standard build, but its a direct counter against the greedy PvT builds of the last year or so. To me, its analogous to the triple-expand build that Savior used to do against Protoss. Bisu countered that with sair-DT, and so zergs can't do that anymore. Hopefully, this will produce a similar equalizing effect in TvP.
TwoToneTerran
Profile Joined March 2009
United States8841 Posts
January 08 2010 01:56 GMT
#2139
On January 08 2010 10:48 johnnyspazz wrote:
So when people say flash is not considered a bonjwa yet because he hasn't been dominating long enough, does that mean the previous bonjwa's were dominating as much as flash for like a year?
Sorry for the noob question, I'm fairly new to the SC scene.


Previous bonjwas did a few things: A: won lots of titles. B: DOMINATED -- atleast over a 70$ winrate during their awesome period. and, this is probably the most important one C: Crushed their closest competition.

Look back on the bonjwas and their rivals during their 'reigns' and they all, with eventuality, crushed their rivals. Nada played Chojja/Yellow/Boxer several times during his simultaneous OSL/MSL. Boxer, of course, crushed Yellow, Chrh, etc, all on his run before being stopped short by Garimto.

Oov did the same, with exception to July, who cut his run in half. It took one season for him to recover and crush July unquestionably, though.

For Flash to do what the bonjwas did and really be a bonjwa, he's got to end up winning some titles. Do it for a couple or three seasons, and play his closest competition (Jaedong/Stork/Bisu/Calm/lolthere'snoterranworthmentioning) multiple times to truly demonstrate he is on an entirely different level.
Remember Violet.
Titanidis
Profile Joined April 2006
Greece132 Posts
January 08 2010 02:10 GMT
#2140
On January 08 2010 06:27 538 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 08 2010 06:14 maneatingshoe wrote:
On January 08 2010 04:59 Titanidis wrote:
people saying flash's dominance is reducing viewership should remember the numbers of people watching the 3 streams today


Agreed there were so many people on every stream! if only MBCgame knew what audience they`re missing out on! I really just want games in english to be honest


Those viewers actually had more to do with the chinese streams failing than Flash playing, actually. And in turn, probably an english stream is not everyone's dream:-p
Even though i think most of us on TL would welcome it


I didnt know that, but still after the end of the light vs kwanro series the viewers suddenly doubled. Anyway viewers are viewers wherever they come from.
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