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What's viable on Battle Royal? - Page 4

Forum Index > Brood War Strategy
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scwizard
Profile Joined March 2009
United States1195 Posts
April 19 2009 21:06 GMT
#61
Grobyc, people have already told me that, but thanks. I have stopped doing what you said.

I'm still allowed to point out stuff like the center having double gas though, right?
Grobyc
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Canada18410 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-04-19 21:23:17
April 19 2009 21:08 GMT
#62
Yeah sure. The one thing what just really made me angry was you spoiling the results from Jaedong vs Fantasy. I haven't seen it yet and I'm sure there are others as well because I haven't been able to find the VOD to watch it yet. Spoilers plz next time
If you watch Godzilla backwards it's about a benevolent lizard who helps rebuild a city and then moonwalks into the ocean.
scwizard
Profile Joined March 2009
United States1195 Posts
April 19 2009 21:12 GMT
#63
Umm, they didn't play on Battle Royal, but yeah sorry.
Grobyc
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Canada18410 Posts
April 19 2009 21:23 GMT
#64
Oops.
If you watch Godzilla backwards it's about a benevolent lizard who helps rebuild a city and then moonwalks into the ocean.
MasterReY
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
Germany2708 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-04-19 21:30:23
April 19 2009 21:29 GMT
#65
to be honest i think you should always use a term WITHOUT a space like 8rax to refer to the supply count when the rax is built and a term WITH a space for the number.
That rule is used most of the time already and i don't see why people don't use it all the time

8rax = rax with 8 supply
8 rax = eight barracks
(without a space, it kind of belongs to the word so it determines the sort of it)
https://www.twitch.tv/MasterReY/ ~ Biggest Reach fan on TL.net (Don't even dare to mention LR now) ~ R.I.P Violet ~ Developer of SCRChart
TL+ Member
EtherealDeath
Profile Blog Joined July 2007
United States8366 Posts
April 19 2009 21:32 GMT
#66
wow the distance from main to nat on this map is just crazy, all on flat open ground. Whatever the solution is for terran/protoss I think will have to do something about the distance between nat and main, since if you could somehow secure your nat and main in a not too long period of time.

FBH/Savior spoiler
+ Show Spoiler +
note that FBH lost his nat, as his turrets were really spread out, trying to cover all that ground. It seemed though that the vulture timing allowed FBH to prevent the second assim from dying, so if there is a way to protect both main and nat, you could then transition to pure bionic and just dropship across the gap, if the zerg kills assims later. But again, how to secure both bases on that map.... I dunno, and I have no idea how you could 1 base on that map without getting overrun by a zerg having free control over the rest of it.
SpiritoftheTunA
Profile Blog Joined August 2006
United States20903 Posts
April 19 2009 21:33 GMT
#67
On April 20 2009 06:29 MasterReY wrote:
to be honest i think you should always use a term WITHOUT a space like 8rax to refer to the supply count when the rax is built and a term WITH a space for the number.
That rule is used most of the time already and i don't see why people don't use it all the time

8rax = rax with 8 supply
8 rax = eight barracks
(without a space, it kind of belongs to the word so it determines the sort of it)

naw i see "6 fact push" as 6fact push all the time

its more of a common sense thing
posting on liquid sites in current year
MasterReY
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
Germany2708 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-04-19 21:35:10
April 19 2009 21:34 GMT
#68
On April 20 2009 06:33 SpiritoftheTunA wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 20 2009 06:29 MasterReY wrote:
to be honest i think you should always use a term WITHOUT a space like 8rax to refer to the supply count when the rax is built and a term WITH a space for the number.
That rule is used most of the time already and i don't see why people don't use it all the time

8rax = rax with 8 supply
8 rax = eight barracks
(without a space, it kind of belongs to the word so it determines the sort of it)

naw i see "6 fact push" as 6fact push all the time

its more of a common sense thing


ofc its common sense, but why shouldn't it be like that additionally?
there are alot of things that are common sence but there are rules for it anyways (in grammar of a language or stuff)
https://www.twitch.tv/MasterReY/ ~ Biggest Reach fan on TL.net (Don't even dare to mention LR now) ~ R.I.P Violet ~ Developer of SCRChart
TL+ Member
SpiritoftheTunA
Profile Blog Joined August 2006
United States20903 Posts
April 19 2009 21:36 GMT
#69
On April 20 2009 06:34 MasterReY wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 20 2009 06:33 SpiritoftheTunA wrote:
On April 20 2009 06:29 MasterReY wrote:
to be honest i think you should always use a term WITHOUT a space like 8rax to refer to the supply count when the rax is built and a term WITH a space for the number.
That rule is used most of the time already and i don't see why people don't use it all the time

8rax = rax with 8 supply
8 rax = eight barracks
(without a space, it kind of belongs to the word so it determines the sort of it)

naw i see "6 fact push" as 6fact push all the time

its more of a common sense thing


ofc its common sense, but why shouldn't it be like that additionally?
there are alot of things that are common sence but there are rules for it anyways (in grammar of a language or stuff)

takes too much effort; its pretty hard to completely standardize any kind of shorthand
posting on liquid sites in current year
scwizard
Profile Joined March 2009
United States1195 Posts
April 19 2009 21:46 GMT
#70
On April 20 2009 06:32 EtherealDeath wrote:
wow the distance from main to nat on this map is just crazy, all on flat open ground. Whatever the solution is for terran/protoss I think will have to do something about the distance between nat and main, since if you could somehow secure your nat and main in a not too long period of time.

FBH/Savior spoiler
+ Show Spoiler +
note that FBH lost his nat, as his turrets were really spread out, trying to cover all that ground. It seemed though that the vulture timing allowed FBH to prevent the second assim from dying, so if there is a way to protect both main and nat, you could then transition to pure bionic and just dropship across the gap, if the zerg kills assims later. But again, how to secure both bases on that map.... I dunno, and I have no idea how you could 1 base on that map without getting overrun by a zerg having free control over the rest of it.

Oh I didn't notice that. It's definitely a much shorter distance than on Heartbreak Ridge for instance. As far as I can see, it looks like mutalisks can go back and forth but the marine's can't, because not only is the distance too long, its also very slightly curved.

Does a terran need to be able to transfer marines back and forth to beat mutalisks? Or is it possible to have each base be a seperate turtle?
SpiritoftheTunA
Profile Blog Joined August 2006
United States20903 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-04-19 21:47:53
April 19 2009 21:47 GMT
#71
On April 20 2009 06:46 scwizard wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 20 2009 06:32 EtherealDeath wrote:
wow the distance from main to nat on this map is just crazy, all on flat open ground. Whatever the solution is for terran/protoss I think will have to do something about the distance between nat and main, since if you could somehow secure your nat and main in a not too long period of time.

FBH/Savior spoiler
+ Show Spoiler +
note that FBH lost his nat, as his turrets were really spread out, trying to cover all that ground. It seemed though that the vulture timing allowed FBH to prevent the second assim from dying, so if there is a way to protect both main and nat, you could then transition to pure bionic and just dropship across the gap, if the zerg kills assims later. But again, how to secure both bases on that map.... I dunno, and I have no idea how you could 1 base on that map without getting overrun by a zerg having free control over the rest of it.

Oh I didn't notice that. It's definitely a much shorter distance than on Heartbreak Ridge for instance. As far as I can see, it looks like mutalisks can go back and forth but the marine's can't, because not only is the distance too long, its also very slightly curved.

Does a terran need to be able to transfer marines back and forth to beat mutalisks? Or is it possible to have each base be a seperate turtle?

against 2hatch mutalisks, there's literally no way to have enough marines and turrets to cover both bases with static marines and turrets by the time the first mutalisks hit, so you have to move them around.
posting on liquid sites in current year
scwizard
Profile Joined March 2009
United States1195 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-04-19 21:57:42
April 19 2009 21:57 GMT
#72
So in conclusion, short distance between muta hatching and the terran and long distance between bases conspire to make it impossible for to stop the first six mutas from killing all your workers if you go two bases right?
Chill
Profile Blog Joined January 2005
Calgary25977 Posts
April 19 2009 22:00 GMT
#73
No, in conclusion you have no idea what you're talking about.

The problem isn't the first six Mutalisks, it's the fact that Zerg will be continually adding more Mutalisks and poking around, dealing damage in any hole in your defense. As such, your defense needs to be somewhat united and you need to be able to merge and split armies as necessary. Further, if there is no possibility of a counter attack whatsoever, Zerg can invest everything into Mutalisks and expansions, giving him more Mutalisks than usual and compounding the issue.
Moderator
Hot_Bid
Profile Blog Joined October 2003
Braavos36374 Posts
April 19 2009 22:01 GMT
#74
also theres no space to build turrets behind your minerals, the wall behind the natural is really helpful to muta harass
@Hot_Bid on Twitter - ESPORTS life since 2010 - http://i.imgur.com/U2psw.png
deathgod6
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
United States5064 Posts
April 19 2009 22:06 GMT
#75
On April 19 2009 23:53 niteReloaded wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 19 2009 23:26 done wrote:
On April 19 2009 23:23 scwizard wrote:
On April 19 2009 22:59 jello_biafra wrote:
It would seem that 9 pool speedling into 2 hatch muta ZvT is almost unbeatable on that map.

I don't see why this is so? If you spam marines from the very beginning you can repel the zerglings, lock yourself in, and repel the mutalisks.

As for PvZ, I'd imagine that Corsiars would fare quite well against mutas if properly executed.

Also another technical question. If protoss builds his own assimilator there after the original one has been destroyed, or terran builds refineries there, will that reopen the choke?


no


I don't see why not.

This gas blocking thing.. it's not one of those hacks mapmakers use, it's a normal thing in BW.
So if you can build a refinery there, the choke WILL reopen. (unless they made the gas unbuildable like someone mentioned)

lol... if you could simply rebuild the gas then it wouldn't be that big of a deal if your opponent killed them. Map makers aren't that dumb.
4.0 GPA = A rank 5.0 GPA = Olympic --------- Bisu, Best, Fantasy. i ♥ oov. They can get in my BoxeR anyday.
scwizard
Profile Joined March 2009
United States1195 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-04-19 22:15:24
April 19 2009 22:14 GMT
#76
Wow, things are not looking good for (T)UpMaGiC/(T)BaBy/(T)Flash

EDIT: Err, Flash can probably handle things. The skill gap between the players is really wide in that case.
thunk
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
United States6233 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-04-19 22:19:20
April 19 2009 22:15 GMT
#77
deathgod6 they've already gone over the fact that you can't rebuild the geysers on the first page.

I think wraith builds might be a popular option here. It gives you the mobility to take on mutalisks but I don't know how it would fair against hydra builds. It would put zerg on the defensive so you could both defend against mutas and take your nat, and then you might be able to stall for enough time to break out and cause some damage. The map is just so troublesome.

Just the map and the initial short air distances reminded me a lot of Raid Assault so Terrans started using Wraiths on that map so I think that might have a chance of being the highest probability build on this map too.

On April 20 2009 06:32 EtherealDeath wrote:
wow the distance from main to nat on this map is just crazy, all on flat open ground. Whatever the solution is for terran/protoss I think will have to do something about the distance between nat and main, since if you could somehow secure your nat and main in a not too long period of time.

FBH/Savior spoiler
+ Show Spoiler +
note that FBH lost his nat, as his turrets were really spread out, trying to cover all that ground. It seemed though that the vulture timing allowed FBH to prevent the second assim from dying, so if there is a way to protect both main and nat, you could then transition to pure bionic and just dropship across the gap, if the zerg kills assims later. But again, how to secure both bases on that map.... I dunno, and I have no idea how you could 1 base on that map without getting overrun by a zerg having free control over the rest of it.


More FBH/Savior spoilers
+ Show Spoiler +
Yea, I was really impressed by how FBH played, and I'm not an FBH fan. He got beat really badly but his decision making was really not that bad for how his planned vulture harass didn't pan out and how he was locked into using slow golaiths to catch fast mutas over that large of a distance. That gol han bang was reallly his only chance
Every time Jung Myung Hoon builds a vulture, two probes die. || My post count was a palindrome and I was never posting again.
bioboyAT
Profile Joined July 2004
Austria1763 Posts
April 19 2009 22:25 GMT
#78
On April 20 2009 06:05 Grobyc wrote:
scwizard, you should stop posting in this thread and giving advice, because you aren't 100% sure what you are talking about. Trust the forum veterans, you ideology doesn't work the way you think it does.


yeah it is just plain annoying the way he explain things, the way he thinks he is so damn right, the way he thinks he knows something about sc but actually has no clue at all and the way he writes. just annoying to discuss things with this guy.
Milchmann | DeadVessel: Milchmann pwns. I fail.
scwizard
Profile Joined March 2009
United States1195 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-04-19 22:29:18
April 19 2009 22:28 GMT
#79
A while ago someone was talking about how hard it would be to break the temple.

Hmm, how would things turn out of the terran mined out that patch earlier in the game, before zerg got mutas? How badly would it screw up timings?

bioboyAT: sorry. I'm trying to change here. I hope this post doesn't give the impression that I think I know everything about sc.
s_86
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United States191 Posts
April 19 2009 22:36 GMT
#80
What if in TvZ, terran were to FE and destroy his gas wall. Then straight to 2port valkyries for harrass and muta counter, while building up inf or mech and dropships. End game would be harassing expo's with dropships (with either inf or mech) guarded by valks.
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