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I don't see how the overlord being over there sooner makes that much of a difference. It helps out against cheese, but in a big map the the time the overlord comes over it's not at all too late.
I think the biggest advantage zerg has is probably that the small size of the map, and the chokepoints, makes it difficult for the other player to scout them.
I think that's counter balanced by the fact that it's pretty much a given what bo they're going to use. They can't go ground really because you can seal yourself off so easily if they choose to.
On April 20 2009 05:06 SpiritoftheTunA wrote:Show nested quote +On April 20 2009 04:59 scwizard wrote:On April 20 2009 04:56 Fontong wrote:On April 20 2009 04:13 scwizard wrote:On April 19 2009 23:40 jello_biafra wrote:
You're gonna have to 8 rax or BBS to get that many marines fast enough to stop that from happening, seriously. Well, per cost m&m beat mutalisks, so if you build marines and they build mutalisks you should come out on top. Sure do 8 rax if its necessary. Whatever you need to do to beat the mutalisk swarm. Fantasy just beat Jaedong with mech into 8rax out of nowhere. His mutalisks just bounced off that marine blob. The thing about the map is that you know because of the short rush distances and the assimilator weirdness that they're going to be building mutalisks, so the proper answer is to build marines. You should come out on top, and then they'll try something else, and you'll try something else in response and you actually have a proper game. Because you wouldn't build marines otherwise? There are really so many things wrong with your post. Fantasy never beat Jaedong's mutas using marines. He used valkyries to do that. + Show Spoiler +Uhh, didn't you see the game last night?
Jaedong threw 4 gas worth of perfectly microed mutalisks at fantasy, but fantasy's 8 rax was too much, and evertually he got vessels which sealed the deal. Sorry Rostam. Spoilered. 8rax is not a counter to 2hatch muta what hte fuck are you fucking on
I wasn't really saying it was, I was saying that building marines is a counter the mutas. jello_biafra was being dumb and saying that you'd need to get 8rax to stop 2 hatch muta. My comment "Sure do 8 rax if its necessary" wasn't talking about a build order really, what I meant was "build a bunch of marines if that's what's needed to repel the mutaliks"
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The Overlord helps because it lets you scout what they're doing. If you see what build your opponent is doing, you can react accordingly. This generally leads to an advantage.
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Yeah, but zerg ovie scouts every game. I don't see the big difference between seeing what they're doign at 1 min and seeing what they're doing at 3 mins.
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out of curiosity, how good do you consider yourself at playing starcraft
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OH MY GOD.
This was discussed SO MANY TIMES.
the map Troy featured the same thing.
both assimilators alive = ultra can pass
one destroyed, one alive = zeals,hydra,.. can pass, goons,tanks,.. can't
both destroyed = nothing can, not even lings, not even probes with "mineral hop trick" or w/e slide
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On April 20 2009 05:15 MasterReY wrote:
OH MY GOD.
This was discussed SO MANY TIMES.
the map Troy featured the same thing.
both assimilators alive = ultra can pass
one destroyed, one alive = zeals,hydra,.. can pass, goons,tanks,.. can't
both destroyed = nothing can, not even lings, not even probes with "mineral hop trick" or w/e slide
ghosts can.
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On April 20 2009 05:11 littlechava wrote:
...
Good chance I'm just being dumb in this case. Could you give me some examples where a ovie scout being 30 seconds faster than it would be on Peaks of Baekdu makes enough of a difference to make zerg imba?
On April 20 2009 05:03 littlechava wrote:
I think T has a better chance than P on this map imo, I can't imagine what a Protoss could do to win against Zerg on Battle Royal.
What about Battle Royal would stop Bisu from doing what he normally does?
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On April 20 2009 05:07 scwizard wrote:
jello_biafra was being dumb and saying that you'd need to get 8rax to stop 2 hatch muta."
No you imbecile I was saying that you'd need to 8 rax to stop the 9 pool lings from killing your assimilators.
And from reading your other posts in this thread, your BW knowledge is elementary at best.
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On April 20 2009 05:26 jello_biafra wrote:Show nested quote +On April 20 2009 05:07 scwizard wrote:
jello_biafra was being dumb and saying that you'd need to get 8rax to stop 2 hatch muta." No you imbecile I was saying that you'd need to 8 rax to stop the 9 pool lings from killing your assimilators. And from reading your other posts in this thread, your BW knowledge is elementary at best.
i agree with this sentiment
get better at bw before you start theorycraft threads like this please
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Guys.
Building marines is a counter to zerglings.
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On April 20 2009 05:26 jello_biafra wrote:Show nested quote +On April 20 2009 05:07 scwizard wrote:
jello_biafra was being dumb and saying that you'd need to get 8rax to stop 2 hatch muta." No you imbecile I was saying that you'd need to 8 rax to stop the 9 pool lings from killing your assimilators. And from reading your other posts in this thread, your BW knowledge is elementary at best.
Meh, the idea is to get a discussion going. Yeah I was being dumb, thought 8 rax refered to the number of rax, no the number of scvs before rax. Because people talk about 6 fact and it means six factories of course.
Anyways, what I'm saying, is that you don't need to care if they kill your assimilators, it really doesn't matter. Just turtle.
Not having assimilators isn't so bad at all, if anything it stops zerglings from rushing into your base.
@ flamers: calling me an idiot isn't going to get anything anywhere. Explaining why I'm wrong would stop me from repeating stupid stuff and might even teach someone something.
If you're just going to throw insults, probably best to not post in the thread.
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Hong Kong20321 Posts
30 seconds faster in the early game is a huge difference lol
scwizard...... :\
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On April 20 2009 05:33 scwizard wrote:Show nested quote +On April 20 2009 05:26 jello_biafra wrote:On April 20 2009 05:07 scwizard wrote:
jello_biafra was being dumb and saying that you'd need to get 8rax to stop 2 hatch muta." No you imbecile I was saying that you'd need to 8 rax to stop the 9 pool lings from killing your assimilators. And from reading your other posts in this thread, your BW knowledge is elementary at best. Meh, the idea is to get a discussion going. Yeah I was being dumb, thought 8 rax refered to the number of rax, no the number of scvs before rax. Because people talk about 6 fact and it means six factories of course. Anyways, what I'm saying, is that you don't need to care if they kill your assimilators, it really doesn't matter. Just turtle. Not having assimilators isn't so bad at all, if anything it stops zerglings from rushing into your base.
No it results in a situation where you're probably never going to get out of your base because any attempt to do so will result in either the marines you're using to kill the temple thing getting sniped horribly by muta or the SCVs you try and mine that patch out with getting popped in similar fashion.
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On April 20 2009 05:33 scwizard wrote:Show nested quote +On April 20 2009 05:26 jello_biafra wrote:On April 20 2009 05:07 scwizard wrote:
jello_biafra was being dumb and saying that you'd need to get 8rax to stop 2 hatch muta." No you imbecile I was saying that you'd need to 8 rax to stop the 9 pool lings from killing your assimilators. And from reading your other posts in this thread, your BW knowledge is elementary at best. Meh, the idea is to get a discussion going. Yeah I was being dumb, thought 8 rax refered to the number of rax, no the number of scvs before rax. Because people talk about 6 fact and it means six factories of course. Anyways, what I'm saying, is that you don't need to care if they kill your assimilators, it really doesn't matter. Just turtle. Not having assimilators isn't so bad at all, if anything it stops zerglings from rushing into your base.
4pool = building 4 pools
4real
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On April 19 2009 22:59 jello_biafra wrote:
It would seem that 9 pool speedling into 2 hatch muta ZvT is almost unbeatable on that map. You're guaranteed to kill the assimilators and lock them in, then you can own their marines as they try to kill the temple or pop the SCVs that try and mine that mineral block to get out.
it surely isnt unbeatable, since four TvZs were announced to be played in the PL
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On April 20 2009 05:33 scwizard wrote:Show nested quote +On April 20 2009 05:26 jello_biafra wrote:On April 20 2009 05:07 scwizard wrote:
jello_biafra was being dumb and saying that you'd need to get 8rax to stop 2 hatch muta." No you imbecile I was saying that you'd need to 8 rax to stop the 9 pool lings from killing your assimilators. And from reading your other posts in this thread, your BW knowledge is elementary at best. Meh, the idea is to get a discussion going. Yeah I was being dumb, thought 8 rax refered to the number of rax, no the number of scvs before rax. Because people talk about 6 fact and it means six factories of course. Anyways, what I'm saying, is that you don't need to care if they kill your assimilators, it really doesn't matter. Just turtle. Not having assimilators isn't so bad at all, if anything it stops zerglings from rushing into your base.
lol. lol. lol. lol. lol. lol.
Look, if they break your assimilators, then then you have to break through neutral buildings and etc., which slows down your troop movement, giving the zerg more time to expand and prepare to deal with whatever you're trying to do. Your ground force will have to take a rather long route to get to your base.
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On April 20 2009 05:35 Mindcrime wrote:Show nested quote +On April 20 2009 05:33 scwizard wrote:On April 20 2009 05:26 jello_biafra wrote:On April 20 2009 05:07 scwizard wrote:
jello_biafra was being dumb and saying that you'd need to get 8rax to stop 2 hatch muta." No you imbecile I was saying that you'd need to 8 rax to stop the 9 pool lings from killing your assimilators. And from reading your other posts in this thread, your BW knowledge is elementary at best. Meh, the idea is to get a discussion going. Yeah I was being dumb, thought 8 rax refered to the number of rax, no the number of scvs before rax. Because people talk about 6 fact and it means six factories of course. Anyways, what I'm saying, is that you don't need to care if they kill your assimilators, it really doesn't matter. Just turtle. Not having assimilators isn't so bad at all, if anything it stops zerglings from rushing into your base. 4pool = building 4 pools 4real
Well if "6 fact" is used to mean 6 factories and "8 rax" is used to mean 8 scvs before rax, then it's kind of counter intuitive.
On April 20 2009 05:35 jello_biafra wrote:Show nested quote +On April 20 2009 05:33 scwizard wrote:On April 20 2009 05:26 jello_biafra wrote:On April 20 2009 05:07 scwizard wrote:
jello_biafra was being dumb and saying that you'd need to get 8rax to stop 2 hatch muta." No you imbecile I was saying that you'd need to 8 rax to stop the 9 pool lings from killing your assimilators. And from reading your other posts in this thread, your BW knowledge is elementary at best. Meh, the idea is to get a discussion going. Yeah I was being dumb, thought 8 rax refered to the number of rax, no the number of scvs before rax. Because people talk about 6 fact and it means six factories of course. Anyways, what I'm saying, is that you don't need to care if they kill your assimilators, it really doesn't matter. Just turtle. Not having assimilators isn't so bad at all, if anything it stops zerglings from rushing into your base. No it results in a situation where you're probably never going to get out of your base because any attempt to do so will result in either the marines you're using to kill the temple thing getting sniped horribly by muta or the SCVs you try and mine that patch out with getting popped in similar fashion.
As long as you have micro, a group of mutalisks would probably be foolish to attack a group of 30 marines attacking a temple. If they try and snipe marines, they'll probably lose a lot of mutalisks and no way will they stop the temple from dying.
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On April 20 2009 05:38 scwizard wrote:Show nested quote +On April 20 2009 05:35 jello_biafra wrote:On April 20 2009 05:33 scwizard wrote:On April 20 2009 05:26 jello_biafra wrote:On April 20 2009 05:07 scwizard wrote:
jello_biafra was being dumb and saying that you'd need to get 8rax to stop 2 hatch muta." No you imbecile I was saying that you'd need to 8 rax to stop the 9 pool lings from killing your assimilators. And from reading your other posts in this thread, your BW knowledge is elementary at best. Meh, the idea is to get a discussion going. Yeah I was being dumb, thought 8 rax refered to the number of rax, no the number of scvs before rax. Because people talk about 6 fact and it means six factories of course. Anyways, what I'm saying, is that you don't need to care if they kill your assimilators, it really doesn't matter. Just turtle. Not having assimilators isn't so bad at all, if anything it stops zerglings from rushing into your base. No it results in a situation where you're probably never going to get out of your base because any attempt to do so will result in either the marines you're using to kill the temple thing getting sniped horribly by muta or the SCVs you try and mine that patch out with getting popped in similar fashion. As long as you have micro, a group of mutalisks would probably be foolish to attack a group of 30 marines attacking a temple. If they try and snipe marines, they'll probably lose a lot of mutalisks and no way will they stop the temple from dying.
you wanna try this out? give me 11 mutas, you get 30 marines, and you try to kill the temple before i get guards or something and rape you
in fact you just wanna play some tvzs? drop the theorycrafting, lets go
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On April 20 2009 05:37 koreasilver wrote:Show nested quote +On April 20 2009 05:33 scwizard wrote:On April 20 2009 05:26 jello_biafra wrote:On April 20 2009 05:07 scwizard wrote:
jello_biafra was being dumb and saying that you'd need to get 8rax to stop 2 hatch muta." No you imbecile I was saying that you'd need to 8 rax to stop the 9 pool lings from killing your assimilators. And from reading your other posts in this thread, your BW knowledge is elementary at best. Meh, the idea is to get a discussion going. Yeah I was being dumb, thought 8 rax refered to the number of rax, no the number of scvs before rax. Because people talk about 6 fact and it means six factories of course. Anyways, what I'm saying, is that you don't need to care if they kill your assimilators, it really doesn't matter. Just turtle. Not having assimilators isn't so bad at all, if anything it stops zerglings from rushing into your base. lol. lol. lol. lol. lol. lol. Look, if they break your assimilators, then then you have to break through neutral buildings and etc., which slows down your troop movement, giving the zerg more time to expand and prepare to deal with whatever you're trying to do. Your ground force will have to take a rather long route to get to your base.
Now people are starting to make sense. Yeah, there's no way terran can hold three bases on the map or effectively stop the zerg from grabbing the middle and whatever else they want on the outside.
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EPT
