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On April 21 2009 19:31 Biff The Understudy wrote:Show nested quote +On April 21 2009 19:09 stroggos wrote:
I think a build that's similar to the fantasy build would be the way to go on this map. Go valkaries but without the money spent on vulture drop, have the money spent on another starport instead for extra valkaries or something. 2 port valkaries might be a good idea because they would think you are going 2 port wraith-if they scout it, which 2 hatch muta counters hard. Then they would waste money on ovie speed. just speculating here, and this is all assuming they do go 2 hatch muta. Useless theorycraftig is useless. Go try 2 ports on it and see if it works. I would say that it shouldn't work...
As much as I hate to say it, theorycrafting usually is useless over 80% of the time. The effectiveness of a strategy or build also depends on the player's execution, so a build that works perfectly in the hands of Bisu or Flash could completely flop in the hands of an unskilled player.
Any way, I just hope they don't put this map into the next OSL or MSL. If the OSL keeps this map along with Tears of the Moon, it'd be like giving Jaedong a free Golden Mouse.
I don't know why the maps these two seasons have been SO Zerg favored. It's not even just SLIGHTLY zerg favored, it's insanely zerg favored to the point that we have an ACE zerg beating a KTF Terran on it.
I don't see how Protoss has any viable builds on this map against Zerg personally, because the rush distance is soooo short, not to mention the choke is way too big to wall off >_<
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On April 21 2009 06:14 KlaCkoN wrote:
After the _ridicolous_ t>>z the last seasons, seriously 2-3 zergs above 50% in zvt? This map is kind of refreshing.
Exactly. Love this map.
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On April 21 2009 23:41 Highways wrote:Show nested quote +On April 21 2009 06:14 KlaCkoN wrote:
After the _ridicolous_ t>>z the last seasons, seriously 2-3 zergs above 50% in zvt? This map is kind of refreshing. Exactly. Love this map.
I guess you love ZvZ because that is the only games we will see soon on this map -_-
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Because the TvT fest in proleagues the season before the race rule was implemented was so much better.
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On April 22 2009 04:45 koreasilver wrote:
Because the TvT fest in proleagues the season before the race rule was implemented was so much better.
Who said that I like TvT geez. I want balanced maps...
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Would the build Artosis introduced on Troy be viable on this map? The zerg wouldn't even have to scout though...
>.<
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In TvZ, at the beginning, Terran can probably depot>rax> build one marine put 2 scvs at the assim choke, each attacking a separate assim, with a marine and a lifted off rax on top of the 2 scvs, so they can't be attacked. This would lead to a quicker FE, followed by wall in and whatever. I think I might have seen something similar attempted in one of the proleague matches, I forget.
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How about you play zerg lol
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On PvZ, would it be possible to build the pylon/forge close to the assimilators, and use cannons to control the choke? Or would a ling runby be too dangerous?
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Spoiler from Flash vs Oversky:
+ Show Spoiler +This game clearly show how imbalanced the map is for zerg. Unless terran does a timing push right before defiler tech get out then I don't see any way to win with mech on this map and bio is obviously really bad. oversky didn't even use mutas this game. He did hydralurk vs mech. That would only ever work on this map.
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One of the main reasons Oversky won, from what I saw, was due to him not going mutas, which Flash was not expecting.
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On April 22 2009 10:23 s_86 wrote:
In TvZ, at the beginning, Terran can probably depot>rax> build one marine put 2 scvs at the assim choke, each attacking a separate assim, with a marine and a lifted off rax on top of the 2 scvs, so they can't be attacked. This would lead to a quicker FE, followed by wall in and whatever. I think I might have seen something similar attempted in one of the proleague matches, I forget.
that's close to what Flash did except he used the SCVs more as a barrier against lings to protect marines
I forget if he bothered with a wall-in afterwards though
anyways, I think the map imbalance is too great to risk putting out a non-zerg player. the zerg player has to commit a huge blunder to lose against a non-zerg player imo
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On April 22 2009 16:47 udgnim wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2009 10:23 s_86 wrote:
In TvZ, at the beginning, Terran can probably depot>rax> build one marine put 2 scvs at the assim choke, each attacking a separate assim, with a marine and a lifted off rax on top of the 2 scvs, so they can't be attacked. This would lead to a quicker FE, followed by wall in and whatever. I think I might have seen something similar attempted in one of the proleague matches, I forget. that's close to what Flash did except he used the SCVs more as a barrier against lings to protect marines I forget if he bothered with a wall-in afterwards though anyways, I think the map imbalance is too great to risk putting out a non-zerg player. the zerg player has to commit a huge blunder to lose against a non-zerg player imo
+ Show Spoiler +Oversky committed to a huge blunder when he dropped Flashs main and got totally raped. DIdn't set him back one bit though since he had the entire map and there was no way for flash to stop him at that time.
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United States17042 Posts
On April 23 2009 03:49 StarBrift wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2009 16:47 udgnim wrote:On April 22 2009 10:23 s_86 wrote:
In TvZ, at the beginning, Terran can probably depot>rax> build one marine put 2 scvs at the assim choke, each attacking a separate assim, with a marine and a lifted off rax on top of the 2 scvs, so they can't be attacked. This would lead to a quicker FE, followed by wall in and whatever. I think I might have seen something similar attempted in one of the proleague matches, I forget. that's close to what Flash did except he used the SCVs more as a barrier against lings to protect marines I forget if he bothered with a wall-in afterwards though anyways, I think the map imbalance is too great to risk putting out a non-zerg player. the zerg player has to commit a huge blunder to lose against a non-zerg player imo + Show Spoiler +Oversky committed to a huge blunder when he dropped Flashs main and got totally raped. DIdn't set him back one bit though since he had the entire map and there was no way for flash to stop him at that time.
+ Show Spoiler +
It's tough to say that oversky is anywhere near flash though. Mechanically, flash was probably near perfect, and oversky's play was not at the same level at all. Flash underwent almost 0 harassment, so even with not being prepared for lurkers he should have been better than okay. Flash must have practiced for that map and mu as well, so i'm not sure what t can do against Z...
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On April 20 2009 14:20 koreasilver wrote:
It means he is banned from posting in the strategy forum.
Oh damnit. All his posts (coupled with the irony of his name after reading said posts) were hilarious.
...And saying that hydra/lurk would work only against mech on BR is ridiculous.
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On April 23 2009 13:38 GHOSTCLAW wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2009 03:49 StarBrift wrote:On April 22 2009 16:47 udgnim wrote:On April 22 2009 10:23 s_86 wrote:
In TvZ, at the beginning, Terran can probably depot>rax> build one marine put 2 scvs at the assim choke, each attacking a separate assim, with a marine and a lifted off rax on top of the 2 scvs, so they can't be attacked. This would lead to a quicker FE, followed by wall in and whatever. I think I might have seen something similar attempted in one of the proleague matches, I forget. that's close to what Flash did except he used the SCVs more as a barrier against lings to protect marines I forget if he bothered with a wall-in afterwards though anyways, I think the map imbalance is too great to risk putting out a non-zerg player. the zerg player has to commit a huge blunder to lose against a non-zerg player imo + Show Spoiler +Oversky committed to a huge blunder when he dropped Flashs main and got totally raped. DIdn't set him back one bit though since he had the entire map and there was no way for flash to stop him at that time. + Show Spoiler +
It's tough to say that oversky is anywhere near flash though. Mechanically, flash was probably near perfect, and oversky's play was not at the same level at all. Flash underwent almost 0 harassment, so even with not being prepared for lurkers he should have been better than okay. Flash must have practiced for that map and mu as well, so i'm not sure what t can do against Z...
I couldn't agree more with what you're saying.
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On April 20 2009 05:06 SpiritoftheTunA wrote:Show nested quote +On April 20 2009 04:59 scwizard wrote:On April 20 2009 04:56 Fontong wrote:On April 20 2009 04:13 scwizard wrote:On April 19 2009 23:40 jello_biafra wrote:
You're gonna have to 8 rax or BBS to get that many marines fast enough to stop that from happening, seriously. Well, per cost m&m beat mutalisks, so if you build marines and they build mutalisks you should come out on top. Sure do 8 rax if its necessary. Whatever you need to do to beat the mutalisk swarm. Fantasy just beat Jaedong with mech into 8rax out of nowhere. His mutalisks just bounced off that marine blob. The thing about the map is that you know because of the short rush distances and the assimilator weirdness that they're going to be building mutalisks, so the proper answer is to build marines. You should come out on top, and then they'll try something else, and you'll try something else in response and you actually have a proper game. Because you wouldn't build marines otherwise? There are really so many things wrong with your post. Fantasy never beat Jaedong's mutas using marines. He used valkyries to do that. + Show Spoiler +Uhh, didn't you see the game last night?
Jaedong threw 4 gas worth of perfectly microed mutalisks at fantasy, but fantasy's 8 rax was too much, and evertually he got vessels which sealed the deal. Sorry Rostam. Spoilered. 8rax is not a counter to 2hatch muta what hte fuck are you fucking on
ROFL... omgsoh qft
haha, made me LOL so hard...
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On May 12 2009 16:14 R3condite wrote:Show nested quote +On April 20 2009 05:06 SpiritoftheTunA wrote:On April 20 2009 04:59 scwizard wrote:On April 20 2009 04:56 Fontong wrote:On April 20 2009 04:13 scwizard wrote:On April 19 2009 23:40 jello_biafra wrote:
You're gonna have to 8 rax or BBS to get that many marines fast enough to stop that from happening, seriously. Well, per cost m&m beat mutalisks, so if you build marines and they build mutalisks you should come out on top. Sure do 8 rax if its necessary. Whatever you need to do to beat the mutalisk swarm. Fantasy just beat Jaedong with mech into 8rax out of nowhere. His mutalisks just bounced off that marine blob. The thing about the map is that you know because of the short rush distances and the assimilator weirdness that they're going to be building mutalisks, so the proper answer is to build marines. You should come out on top, and then they'll try something else, and you'll try something else in response and you actually have a proper game. Because you wouldn't build marines otherwise? There are really so many things wrong with your post. Fantasy never beat Jaedong's mutas using marines. He used valkyries to do that. + Show Spoiler +Uhh, didn't you see the game last night?
Jaedong threw 4 gas worth of perfectly microed mutalisks at fantasy, but fantasy's 8 rax was too much, and evertually he got vessels which sealed the deal. Sorry Rostam. Spoilered. 8rax is not a counter to 2hatch muta what hte fuck are you fucking on ROFL... omgsoh qft haha, made me LOL so hard...
Why did you bump this?! I just had to read the whole first page before I realized that I've seen this catastrophe of a thread before.
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EPT
