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! [G] DaZe advice for T's - Page 8

Forum Index > Brood War Strategy
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HiddenTalent
Profile Joined July 2005
United States246 Posts
February 15 2007 02:37 GMT
#141
if you get to his base and you see a 2 gate strat, what i'd do is block my choke with 2 scvs, have marines as backup and make a vulture before i make any tanks.
[GiTM]-Ace
Profile Joined September 2002
United States4935 Posts
February 15 2007 05:43 GMT
#142
tvp when u shift attack with the tanks do u do it with all 12? or like half?
I may not be the best player right now but I think I can beat any 'best' players. I'll beat all the best players and become the best player. Watch me. - Jju
nite3
Profile Joined June 2006
130 Posts
February 15 2007 19:32 GMT
#143
On February 15 2007 14:43 [GiTM]-Ace wrote:
tvp when u shift attack with the tanks do u do it with all 12? or like half?

i think its with all of them, coz it'd be too micro intensive to split them.

anything is better than ur tanks dying to each other. i sometimes even shoot at my own rafinery or w/e when i see a shuttle approaching. once again, anything is better than ur tanks dying to each other.
i close my eyes... and empty my mind.
[GiTM]-Ace
Profile Joined September 2002
United States4935 Posts
February 17 2007 15:22 GMT
#144
On February 14 2007 16:10 Myxomatosis wrote:
excellent guide, just a couple questions:
1. What do you do vs. gas steal TvZ and TvP?
2. How early/late do you get upgrades TvP? Do you lay down armories before/after you start to build for your min only?
3. What do you do against a zerg with drop? How much do you keep in your base to defend, and how long can you wait to move out (assuming his original drop doesn't pretty much kill you outright)?


still interested in answers to these
I may not be the best player right now but I think I can beat any 'best' players. I'll beat all the best players and become the best player. Watch me. - Jju
DaZe
Profile Joined November 2003
Sweden2111 Posts
February 17 2007 17:37 GMT
#145
[QUOTE]On February 18 2007 00:22 [GiTM]-Ace wrote:
[QUOTE]On February 14 2007 16:10 Myxomatosis wrote:
excellent guide, just a couple questions:
1. What do you do vs. gas steal TvZ and TvP?
2. How early/late do you get upgrades TvP? Do you lay down armories before/after you start to build for your min only?
3. What do you do against a zerg with drop? How much do you keep in your base to defend, and how long can you wait to move out (assuming his original drop doesn't pretty much kill you outright)?[/QUOTE]

1. First off (vs P) I attack gas with 2 scvs, as soon as its done I attack with another 2 or 3 scvs then build gas. Dont let P take it again, and keep making rines then make 2 or 1 factorys and make your decision. (remember he will be a bit behind as well!)
versus Z I would probably not care that much and just fast expand, since he will lose more in the long length than I will.

2. Mostly I do 2 armory at the same time my second exp is buidling, but if im behind at the beginning due to some dt drop or something, I might add a lot earlier like NaDa/midas doo.

3. This depends so much on map and who im playing. versus a really good z who doesnt build spire or something after lurks (When I assume drop) I stay with 8-10 rines + 2 medics and maybe a bunker or 1 / 2 tanks in main. It should be enough, you might lose it but your reinforcements will arrive in time to clear it out then just move out and pwn him (he will have pretty late hive).
REAl4eVeR
Profile Joined March 2004
Germany187 Posts
March 15 2007 07:07 GMT
#146
Thx for your guide! I enjoyed reading it.

Hmm...maybe it's a little bit late here...but why you are waiting for 250 mins and building you rax+gas at the same time instead of first rax than gas when money ready.....?
Today is a good day to die......
bEsTsHoT
Profile Joined September 2006
United States8 Posts
March 15 2007 07:28 GMT
#147
Daze = awesome, very nice guide bro
macro macro macro
Equinox_kr
Profile Blog Joined December 2006
United States7395 Posts
March 15 2007 09:21 GMT
#148
Yes, it is a good guide -_-
^-^
ChoboCop
Profile Joined July 2004
United States954 Posts
March 15 2007 09:29 GMT
#149
On February 13 2007 15:56 DaZe wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 13 2007 12:43 WastedYouth wrote:
DaZe what are your sentiments on early arbiter abuse? As in the protosses who do some light dt cheese just so they can have the archives up early enough to pump 1 expo arbiters no later than when they have just barely a large enough army to defend themselves from an early steamroll.

I see a lot of this cheese tactic on BrainClan and I haven't had much luck vs it


If he builds really fast arbiters, like after just 1 expo, you should be just fine with just waiting just a bit longer and moving out slowly with good tankposition. Even though he will have arbiter, he wont have been able to produce as much units as if he had stuck with the usual double expansion-strat...


I don't think this was very helpful. Can you add more or elaborate? I'm sure his problem wasn't just moving out too quickly and not putting his tanks in the right place.
Critical thinking is the intellectually disciplined process of actively and skillfully conceptualizing, applying, analyzing, synthesizing, and/or evaluating information gathered.
iNcontroL *
Profile Blog Joined July 2004
USA29055 Posts
March 15 2007 14:12 GMT
#150
On March 15 2007 18:29 ChoboCop wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 13 2007 15:56 DaZe wrote:
On February 13 2007 12:43 WastedYouth wrote:
DaZe what are your sentiments on early arbiter abuse? As in the protosses who do some light dt cheese just so they can have the archives up early enough to pump 1 expo arbiters no later than when they have just barely a large enough army to defend themselves from an early steamroll.

I see a lot of this cheese tactic on BrainClan and I haven't had much luck vs it


If he builds really fast arbiters, like after just 1 expo, you should be just fine with just waiting just a bit longer and moving out slowly with good tankposition. Even though he will have arbiter, he wont have been able to produce as much units as if he had stuck with the usual double expansion-strat...


I don't think this was very helpful. Can you add more or elaborate? I'm sure his problem wasn't just moving out too quickly and not putting his tanks in the right place.


What he is saying is when a P player goes 1 expansion arbiter they are making sacrifices. They teched fast at the expense of more macro/units. That being said, they most likely dont have storm either, and are probably light on goons. This is of course not an exact science, but it is a good estimate. Once you can see these things in effect, daze is giving the advice that you should sit on your macro for a minute, get a few gols and move out with a much larger tank/vult force. This is because the P strategy is based on winning the first big fight, NOT on anything else really. So if you can win that first big fight by being patient the P player has disadvantaged themself and now you just play safe for the gg.
Loveletter
Profile Joined November 2006
United States543 Posts
March 15 2007 19:02 GMT
#151
A question about moving out when Zerg is containing you with his mutalisk micro. I know now that I must be placing my turrets better rather then just behind my mineral line. But I must protect all my buildings as well. But if he still has Mutalisk left, when should I move out? As soon as I move out his overlord sees me exiting my main and he comes back and tries to harrass again >_>
DotA 2 - peteyyytran/IRONBRAH add me for inhouse games/pub games
Equinox_kr
Profile Blog Joined December 2006
United States7395 Posts
March 15 2007 22:50 GMT
#152
I'll try answering since DaZe is probably very busy ^_^

Whenever a scenario like this happens to me, I like to divide up my units into two parts and move out with one and handle the Mutalisk problem with the other. If he has a LOT of Mutalisks he probably doesn't have much defense because he's either whoring drones or expanding more than you think. When this happens, I simply try to crush an expo as fast as possible because doing lasting damage with Mutalisks takes a long, long time.

If you're good at handling your M&M at your main base, you can probably crush his main / tech buildings or destroy an expo or two.

Hope this helps, although DaZe's eventual advice will be > mine
^-^
iNcontroL *
Profile Blog Joined July 2004
USA29055 Posts
March 15 2007 23:48 GMT
#153
dividing into two is pretty bad. You sit on many turrets in the important places, move out with ALL or MOST of your rine force and continue to produce rines as the anti-counter / mutalisk force. It also isnt a bad idea to simply defend the mutas and sit until you get a sci vessel in case of fast lurkers or some kind of massive ling counter.
Equinox_kr
Profile Blog Joined December 2006
United States7395 Posts
March 16 2007 02:01 GMT
#154
Hmm ... I'm probably wrong - iNcontroL > me in everything. Probably.

Anyways, this is the method I employ when I'm playing vs my friend ... he's INSANE at Mutalisk harassing (probably up there with July and Savior themselves!) and whenever I sit in my base for too long he comes rushing in with Lurkers + Zerglings. I then realized that dividing into two is important since he only has like 3 Sunken Colonies protecting his main and natural.

I'm sad that I'm wrong.
^-^
himurakenshin
Profile Blog Joined April 2006
Canada1845 Posts
March 16 2007 02:25 GMT
#155
First of all thank you Daze for this nice guide.

I was wondering why is the metal build order 12rax/12gas instead of 10rax 12 gas? What is the use of delaying the rax?
Loveletter
Profile Joined November 2006
United States543 Posts
March 16 2007 02:31 GMT
#156
Yeah his Guide has helped me alot and thanks for the advice everone
DotA 2 - peteyyytran/IRONBRAH add me for inhouse games/pub games
Phyre
Profile Blog Joined December 2006
United States1288 Posts
March 16 2007 03:15 GMT
#157
I'm also curious as to why you save up 250 minerals in order to build rax and gas near simultaneously in the 11rax/11gas and 12rax/12gas builds.

The best I can think of is that by not building rax or gas as soon as minerals allow it gives the scv that would have been building more time to collect minerals thus giving a very slight econ advantage. That's the only thing I can think of.
"Oh no, I got you with your pants... on your face... That's not how you wear pants." - Nintu, catching 1 hatch lurks.
StylishVODs
Profile Joined December 2005
Sweden5331 Posts
Last Edited: 2007-03-16 05:59:04
March 16 2007 05:49 GMT
#158
Dont you ever do 11 rax / 14 rax -> exp. that way when your second rax is finnished and u have made 2 rine from 1st rax your scv building the second rax can go directly to exp and you will have 400 exactly when it arrives:D

Also, when you use tanks target goons.. u said 12 tanks if i understood correctly.. do you target goons with all 12 tanks? that way the first shot on the first goon will be waste, wont it?

sry if this thing about the tanks was asked before i didnt read all the posts before posting my own:D

also to answer the questions about why 12rax12ref its coz you wont be able to make your factory faster if u make 10 rax anyway.. and its the time to get up factory that matters most. This way you will get it a few seconds earlier and also alittle better econ and therefor its the better choise.
According to Reach, he is the fastest learner he has ever seen. He start bw only like 2/3 years ago. Infact, his bw history knowledge is so limited, he didn't even know what the map Guillotine was.
imBLIND
Profile Blog Joined December 2006
United States2626 Posts
March 16 2007 06:08 GMT
#159
when using tanks to target, just lasso 3-4 tanks and shift click on random goons
then lasso another 3-4 tanks and shift atk

this way, you dont waste 12 tanks on 1 goons. even letting the tanks fire on their own will is better than taht
im deaf
StylishVODs
Profile Joined December 2005
Sweden5331 Posts
March 16 2007 17:21 GMT
#160
daze tell us how many tanks u target with.. all or just some? :D

(free bump)
According to Reach, he is the fastest learner he has ever seen. He start bw only like 2/3 years ago. Infact, his bw history knowledge is so limited, he didn't even know what the map Guillotine was.
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