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Polis
Poland1292 Posts
[QUOTE]On May 27 2005 18:01 88)WhyYouKickMyDog wrote: P > T on BB zeal cannon rush is unstoppable.  - ur are killed with scv and a couple of marines, befores u first canon is done: forge und warping canon = 300 min![/QUOTE]Thats why it is zealot/cannon not cannon. | ||
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BloodBath
United States409 Posts
On May 27 2005 12:33 LastWish wrote: you obviously have never played bloodbathCan T build wallin on BB? If not P could proxy zealots and delay terran dramatically with his tech. | ||
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BloodBath
United States409 Posts
On May 27 2005 18:01 88)WhyYouKickMyDog wrote: you are a wrong you dont even know what your are talking about yourself and your trying to kick knowledge. "whatever build counters 4 pool" and "zeal canon rush is unstoppable" . plus your name is not funnyP > T on BB zeal cannon rush is unstoppable. T > Z by 8 rax (or whatever build best counters 4 pool, not sure exactly how quick you have to rax, but u can figure that out urself). if hes massing lings, get a bunk then gas and another rax, and fast mm. if hes doing like a 1 hatch lurker/ling just build constant rines out of 1 rax, keep rines inside of SCV's so u dont lose to a few speedlings, and get fast acad and another rax when u have the money. you should kill zerg with MM before they get lurks. and T > T with 4 SCV rush | ||
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BloodBath
United States409 Posts
I've played litteraly thousands of games on bloodbath with random and I win/lose equally with all races. Best build order for T is 9 rax 10 depot 11 rax. With proper micro, yes you can even stop a 4pool. You can wall in TvP too. 3 depot and rax, or 2 barrack and depot, and top left you can even 2 depot and rax.try it. My default Zerg build order: 9 pool,9 extractor, 9lord, gather 100 gas for metaboost and harrass away making lings and hatches, or you can take the fast lurker tech route. but if you see 9 rax 10 depot 11 rax you can try and 11 hatch 10 pool. Starcraft on bloodbath is far different than playing on any other map. Scouting is like the most important thing. Micro is intense and constant, Macro must be near perfect or else you won't have the units to micro with and you will lose. Build orders must be solid and you cannot tech off on a tangent like many other maps where your expo is easily taken. On bloodbath you must fight for an expansion. The early game consists of fighting to keep your mining operation going, then it evolves into securing your bridge and controlling the middle for flanking and map control. Timing is key. Another major factor is base construction, and building placement. If you don't build properly and do it fast you will lose key structures and lose the tech race. Later on it becomes a fight for expansions when tech is in high gear. I recommend everyone to play bloodbath with good players to get better. its better than any micro wars UMS. If you have trouble with micro or you lose to so called "cheese". Bloodbath will train you so well that when they try that crap on any other map you will just own them. I could go on forever why this map is so great. | ||
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Smorrie
Netherlands2923 Posts
On May 28 2005 04:51 BloodBath wrote: I recommend everyone to play bloodbath with good players to get better. its better than any micro wars UMS. If you have trouble with micro or you lose to so called "cheese". Bloodbath will train you so well that when they try that crap on any other map you will just own them. bs -_- but that's why you play bb and we play other maps  | ||
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poor newb
United States1879 Posts
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8882
2718 Posts
On May 27 2005 23:48 suxN wrote: sorry for off topic but what about pvz, isnt z:s 5pool quite effective? yes and no it can work vs a weak toss player, because by the time the lings arrive he has a zealot done in 3/4 (or 1 zealot) - and now all depends on the zergs micro zerg can kill few probes, sometimes a pylon (which might mean a gg), or even a gateway on the other hand if the toss manages to defend, he has more probes and is able to get few zealots quickly - so zerg needs a sunken (175minerals...) and toss has even better economy sometimes the protoss players scout with 5th probe and make a forge first BO, which stops most early pools (not sure about 4pool), but I think it is not a good thing, because the zerg is free to mass drones later I used to go 5pool->fast hydra speed upgrade+mad micro, but it is not as effective as you might think, zerg has poor economy, toss can make few cannons and slowly tech to HT/reaver and out macro the zerg, hydras need like 20 shots to kill a zealot, so the micro needs to be perfect and is not as effective. | ||
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88)WhyYouKickMyDog
United States608 Posts
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88)WhyYouKickMyDog
United States608 Posts
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88)WhyYouKickMyDog
United States608 Posts
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CuddlyCuteKitten
Sweden2636 Posts
Even 2on1's. | ||
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BloodBath
United States409 Posts
On May 28 2005 09:24 CuddlyCuteKitten wrote: yea you are right.The thing about "winning equally" on BB is that you normally win 90 % of the BB games anyway because of pure skill difference.It's easy to own at public BB. Even 2on1's. | ||
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BloodBath
United States409 Posts
On May 28 2005 09:04 88)WhyYouKickMyDog wrote: BloodBath i havent played BB since starcraft vanilla, and i havent played BW since TLT finals. And despite you having played thousands of games on BB, i could 10-0 you. reply: I really doubt that. I am ready to play when you are, or do you not play bw anymore? "whatever build counters 4 pool" implies that I don't know what the best counter is. and you play complete newbs if u think 9 rax 10 supply can stop a 4 pool on BB. And i am correct about zeal/cannon being > T on BB, when P has good micro. Since you aren't that smart, ill say the obvious, which is that you have to send a few probes too, depending on how many SCV and how fast he built his rax, and also time it for when he would try and mass SCV/rine at the warping cannon. reply: "Whatever build counters 4 pool" implies you do not know what you are talknig about and you shouldnt be giving people tips on bloodbath. No, 9 rax 10 depot 11 rax is solid vs good players trust me. 4 pool is suicide.So what, you are going to go all out on zeal canon probe rush? GG you, even if you sit there and guard your canon or 2 do you think you are going to have enough mineral income to push cannons into him before he gets 1 tank? | ||
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BloodBath
United States409 Posts
On May 28 2005 08:25 8882 wrote: I almost never use sunkens, zerg should 9 pool harrass vs P with speedlings by defualt and then either get 3 hatch to whatever tech, or 1 hatch lair 2nd hatch lurkers. I dont really recommend mutas early since gas doesnt flow as fast with 1 base.yes and no it can work vs a weak toss player, because by the time the lings arrive he has a zealot done in 3/4 (or 1 zealot) - and now all depends on the zergs micro zerg can kill few probes, sometimes a pylon (which might mean a gg), or even a gateway on the other hand if the toss manages to defend, he has more probes and is able to get few zealots quickly - so zerg needs a sunken (175minerals...) and toss has even better economy sometimes the protoss players scout with 5th probe and make a forge first BO, which stops most early pools (not sure about 4pool), but I think it is not a good thing, because the zerg is free to mass drones later I used to go 5pool->fast hydra speed upgrade+mad micro, but it is not as effective as you might think, zerg has poor economy, toss can make few cannons and slowly tech to HT/reaver and out macro the zerg, hydras need like 20 shots to kill a zealot, so the micro needs to be perfect and is not as effective. | ||
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Bladox
Canada763 Posts
On May 28 2005 04:40 BloodBath wrote: you obviously have never played bloodbath He didnt miss anything... obviously... | ||
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Kacas
Brazil3143 Posts
the p just pressure me wenting dt~ i had to make marines + bunkers for zeas tanks + sieger for goons no money for engineer bay gg =/ | ||
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labcoated
Canada392 Posts
anyways so is the verdict that terran has to 2 rax out of 8 or 9 and then just defend/tech up = win vs zerg or toss? killing with marine/scv if possible/necessary? | ||
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HowitZer
United States1610 Posts
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useLess
United States4781 Posts
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PokerQuestion
United States71 Posts
 . But their are some people that are of VERY high skill that play it and have highly devoloped condition al methods of playing and owning. Most of the statements made about how to play this map have been wrong, a few have been right on; most noteably almost everything said by bloodbath and whoever said dt work well in the middle. In PvT it is hard to get to the dt because if you are DT rushing you will most likely need cannons to stop the MM rush. An anxious terran player will go for tanks to get the cannons, but a devoloped terran will play it cool and spider mine you in and expand.To answer the original question (if the players have the same skill): P>T T>Z Z>P Rock paper scissors (THIS DOES NOT APPLY TO ALL MAPS or ALL PLAYERS!) I find myself owning better players when I am protoss against terran mostly, players with 2x the APM owned consistantly. I developed this system based on how often I owned a superior player and how often I was lost to an inferior player. The only noteable time I pwned a good zerger was some dude that didnt speak english, he did ~380 APM with zerg I won with toss somehow. That game will stand out in my mind anytime I think of pvz on BB . Off topic: BloodBath are you eye-loser? Blood Bath has alot more to offer then a 4 pool. I can defend 2 players 4 pooling with toss or terran, it is a weak build. | ||
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