I lose to mass recalls every tvp that I don't lose earlier to dts. I think I know what i should do against them, turrets mines emps etc, but evidently my execution is bad because i always lose to them. I am getting frustrated so I am asking for suggestions on methods to deal with it that might not be the "right" way but that may work at low level. Something like massing cloacked wraith.
That's the opposite of how to improve...
Just lay spider mines + make turrets in places that protoss might recall (main, expos)
Having vessels to EMP doesn't hurt either.
It really sounds like you need to post a replay though since I doubt the recalls are actually why you're losing (sounds to me like you're being outplayed/outmacrod)
So, those Nal-Ra games were jawsome. Thanks to both of you, but that english commentator can staple his mouth shut. Ohhh my gawd, all the "uh...uhm...uh...um" and just....RAGE
So, my question is about cannon rushing. What is a good build order for that and how would one go about it? I've seen (lost to) cannon rushes where they do that cute dual pylon block behind the min line. I've seen a terran wall in on python get cannon rushed too. I just want to know what time I should be starting my forge and effective scouting paths so that I can get there on time. Stuff like that
On August 19 2011 09:31 Release wrote: Why don't pros use 9pool lair in ZvZ? It beats 12 hatch, and from what i've seen, i've concluded that it is advantageous against a 12pool expand.
In tvp when doing 1 rax FE, what do u do against 2 gate range goons who waits till around 7 dragoons to one hit snipe scvs that are repariing the bunker? Like in this game(game was over long before the reaver, he died to the scv snipe and i just wanna know how terrans are supposed to stop that). Even in fantasy vs free, fantasy couldnt stop this..
On August 20 2011 09:28 MaRiNe23 wrote: In tvp when doing 1 rax FE, what do u do against 2 gate range goons who waits till around 7 dragoons to one hit snipe scvs that are repariing the bunker? Like in this game(game was over long before the reaver, he died to the scv snipe and i just wanna know how terrans are supposed to stop that). Even in fantasy vs free, fantasy couldnt stop this..
plz just watch the beginning scv sniping i dont care who wins.
i'm no expert but it looks like, in the Baby vs. Jangbi game, Baby only built 2 marines, whereas fantasy built 3 and then built a 4th marine once 4 dragoons were shooting his bunker right when range finished. then fantasy actually continued building a 5th marine (makes sense). still, it seemed very difficult to hold off for fantasy so i'm curious what the ideal way to hold this would be
On August 20 2011 09:28 MaRiNe23 wrote: In tvp when doing 1 rax FE, what do u do against 2 gate range goons who waits till around 7 dragoons to one hit snipe scvs that are repariing the bunker? Like in this game(game was over long before the reaver, he died to the scv snipe and i just wanna know how terrans are supposed to stop that). Even in fantasy vs free, fantasy couldnt stop this..
plz just watch the beginning scv sniping i dont care who wins.
i'm no expert but it looks like, in the Baby vs. Jangbi game, Baby only built 2 marines, whereas fantasy built 3 and then built a 4th marine once 4 dragoons were shooting his bunker right when range finished. then fantasy actually continued building a 5th marine (makes sense). still, it seemed very difficult to hold off for fantasy so i'm curious what the ideal way to hold this would be
I'm not sure either. I don't even know if that was 10/15 by protoss or a regular 2 gate range dragoon. If it wasnt 10/15 and he still did all that damage well I'm not sure how to fend that off. That's why i posted this cuz i dont really see what terran can do.
On August 20 2011 09:28 MaRiNe23 wrote: In tvp when doing 1 rax FE, what do u do against 2 gate range goons who waits till around 7 dragoons to one hit snipe scvs that are repariing the bunker? Like in this game(game was over long before the reaver, he died to the scv snipe and i just wanna know how terrans are supposed to stop that). Even in fantasy vs free, fantasy couldnt stop this..
plz just watch the beginning scv sniping i dont care who wins.
i'm no expert but it looks like, in the Baby vs. Jangbi game, Baby only built 2 marines, whereas fantasy built 3 and then built a 4th marine once 4 dragoons were shooting his bunker right when range finished. then fantasy actually continued building a 5th marine (makes sense). still, it seemed very difficult to hold off for fantasy so i'm curious what the ideal way to hold this would be
I'm not sure either. I don't even know if that was 10/15 by protoss or a regular 2 gate range dragoon. If it wasnt 10/15 and he still did all that damage well I'm not sure how to fend that off. That's why i posted this cuz i dont really see what terran can do.
definitely 10/15 gate, you can tell based on the timings (3 dragoons at terran natural at about 4:25) or from the obs view in the vod, which showed that he had only 1 pylon and cut probes when the 2nd gateway went down
On August 20 2011 09:28 MaRiNe23 wrote: In tvp when doing 1 rax FE, what do u do against 2 gate range goons who waits till around 7 dragoons to one hit snipe scvs that are repariing the bunker? Like in this game(game was over long before the reaver, he died to the scv snipe and i just wanna know how terrans are supposed to stop that). Even in fantasy vs free, fantasy couldnt stop this..
plz just watch the beginning scv sniping i dont care who wins.
i'm no expert but it looks like, in the Baby vs. Jangbi game, Baby only built 2 marines, whereas fantasy built 3 and then built a 4th marine once 4 dragoons were shooting his bunker right when range finished. then fantasy actually continued building a 5th marine (makes sense). still, it seemed very difficult to hold off for fantasy so i'm curious what the ideal way to hold this would be
I'm not sure either. I don't even know if that was 10/15 by protoss or a regular 2 gate range dragoon. If it wasnt 10/15 and he still did all that damage well I'm not sure how to fend that off. That's why i posted this cuz i dont really see what terran can do.
definitely 10/15 gate, you can tell based on the timings (3 dragoons at terran natural at about 4:25) or from the obs view in the vod, which showed that he had only 1 pylon and cut probes when the 2nd gateway went down
Gotcha. I was thinking of Idra's game vs Nony while trying to think of a way how terran can beat this. Well after idra lost he said he shuld just lifted the CC and waited for more tanks and then re-land it. However, nony did 4 gate all in that game. Free did 10/15 into triple nexus. If terran has to lift the CC i think terran will be put too far behind economically if toss triple nexus'ed right after.
So I don't think lifting the CC and waiting for more tanks then re-landing the CC is "ideal" but then getting all ur scvs targetted at ur nat still puts u behind economically and also a good chance ur bunker will bust too like what happened to both of the progamers.
I lose to mass recalls every tvp that I don't lose earlier to dts. I think I know what i should do against them, turrets mines emps etc, but evidently my execution is bad because i always lose to them. I am getting frustrated so I am asking for suggestions on methods to deal with it that might not be the "right" way but that may work at low level. Something like massing cloacked wraith.
i find as a protoss player at low levels lots of terrans players only put turrets in their expos...but that's not much good because my arbiter lives long enough to recall and then the damage is done.
placing turrets in the paths of where you think arbiters will travel to your expansions can be more beneficial. i think someone mentioned emp with science vessels. if you are a low level player like me, i guess it's worth trying but it's whether you can react fast enough.
if he is recalling a significant chunk of his army this may be a chance for you to push? although he takes your expo he has less to defend your push?
I find as a protoss player my often poor unit positioning means arbiters with stasis are my only way of breaking pushes. maybe if you kept scanning his main keeping a check on when he gets stargate and arbiter tribunal you can time your push for before he has arbiters with energy out. this is how i usually lose to terrans of my level. if they play too passively and let me get my arbiters out i can usually win.
also arbiters are very gas heavy, you should be doing this anyway but try not to give protoss an easy time expanding at all. have vultures ready to intercept probes going to expansion locations, also lay mines on nexus locations. anything you can do to hold them up expanding is great.
also if he's recalling to destroy all your expos theres no reason you cant do the same with drops. i feel at low level PvT terran dont utilise drops enough, as theyre so rare i never really prepare for them as protoss and you are getting a starport anyway for science vessels so may as well get just one or two dropships while science facility is building. also silly people like me pylon wall off their expos so vultures cant get to them...meaning a successful drop means i have to destroy my own pylons to save the expo!
and yes never forget mines. as someone else said, imagine where theyll recall and just mine the hell out of it
cloaked wraiths just won't work imo. as one photon cannon in each mineral line sorts it out. also clever protoss players have a good number of observers out at all times, and with a goon army those wraiths will just die.
i dont play terran so these are just my opinions from a nooby protoss perspective.
I lose to mass recalls every tvp that I don't lose earlier to dts. I think I know what i should do against them, turrets mines emps etc, but evidently my execution is bad because i always lose to them. I am getting frustrated so I am asking for suggestions on methods to deal with it that might not be the "right" way but that may work at low level. Something like massing cloacked wraith.
Yeah, what you say here is the right way to deal with recalls, eg mines, turrets, and EMPs. So you must be getting outmacroed. Post a replay up here, maybe people can help you with that. By the way, mass cloaked wraith (or other "wrong" methods) won't work too well, even at low level. What really works at low levels is macro. That's what you need to improve on. That's what will win you games.
On August 20 2011 09:28 MaRiNe23 wrote: In tvp when doing 1 rax FE, what do u do against 2 gate range goons who waits till around 7 dragoons to one hit snipe scvs that are repariing the bunker? Like in this game(game was over long before the reaver, he died to the scv snipe and i just wanna know how terrans are supposed to stop that). Even in fantasy vs free, fantasy couldnt stop this..
plz just watch the beginning scv sniping i dont care who wins.
Free did a slight variation of 10/15 gate. Took one probe off gas and made a few more probes for a slightly stronger econ. This type of build is semi-all in. You can tell by the late expansion timing. I am not sure if fantasy researched marine range or not but if he did, it would have been the correct move.
The only thing I thought he could have done was to add a second bunker behind the first. He almost held off the push and if he had a second bunker, he would probably have been able to hold off the goons.
On August 20 2011 09:28 MaRiNe23 wrote: In tvp when doing 1 rax FE, what do u do against 2 gate range goons who waits till around 7 dragoons to one hit snipe scvs that are repariing the bunker? Like in this game(game was over long before the reaver, he died to the scv snipe and i just wanna know how terrans are supposed to stop that). Even in fantasy vs free, fantasy couldnt stop this..
plz just watch the beginning scv sniping i dont care who wins.
Free did a slight variation of 10/15 gate. Took one probe off gas and made a few more probes for a slightly stronger econ. This type of build is semi-all in. You can tell by the late expansion timing. I am not sure if fantasy researched marine range or not but if he did, it would have been the correct move.
The only thing I thought he could have done was to add a second bunker behind the first. He almost held off the push and if he had a second bunker, he would probably have been able to hold off the goons.
Ok yea ur right. 2nd bunker will buy him enough time for siege mode. I guess the only thing terrans need to do is scout that it's a 10/15 and not make a 2nd factory but make 4 more marines for the second bunker. I say 4 more rines cuz I think as soon as he breaks that first bunker, there is a huge chance most or all marines will die before they get a chance to reach 2nd bunk.
On August 20 2011 09:28 MaRiNe23 wrote: In tvp when doing 1 rax FE, what do u do against 2 gate range goons who waits till around 7 dragoons to one hit snipe scvs that are repariing the bunker? Like in this game(game was over long before the reaver, he died to the scv snipe and i just wanna know how terrans are supposed to stop that). Even in fantasy vs free, fantasy couldnt stop this..
plz just watch the beginning scv sniping i dont care who wins.
Free did a slight variation of 10/15 gate. Took one probe off gas and made a few more probes for a slightly stronger econ. This type of build is semi-all in. You can tell by the late expansion timing. I am not sure if fantasy researched marine range or not but if he did, it would have been the correct move.
The only thing I thought he could have done was to add a second bunker behind the first. He almost held off the push and if he had a second bunker, he would probably have been able to hold off the goons.
Ok yea ur right. 2nd bunker will buy him enough time for siege mode. I guess the only thing terrans need to do is scout that it's a 10/15 and not make a 2nd factory but make 4 more marines for the second bunker. I say 4 more rines cuz I think as soon as he breaks that first bunker, there is a huge chance most or all marines will die before they get a chance to reach 2nd bunk.
the 4 more marines are not really needed. as long as it is right behind the current bunker(maybe one square behind to allow repairs), it should be alright. he is making a risky move to attempt to force your natural to go offline. if you can prevent that from happening, he is way behind. but this is only in terms of econ. goon numbers are quite high but you are poised to take an early third with proper defense.
your advantage will only be seen after first engagement.
On August 20 2011 09:28 MaRiNe23 wrote: In tvp when doing 1 rax FE, what do u do against 2 gate range goons who waits till around 7 dragoons to one hit snipe scvs that are repariing the bunker? Like in this game(game was over long before the reaver, he died to the scv snipe and i just wanna know how terrans are supposed to stop that). Even in fantasy vs free, fantasy couldnt stop this..
Guys help me pls. How do you call a Bw control group of units (full 12 of them)? It russian we call it a "pack", is there the same thing in english slang, or is it only called "control group"?
Didn't know where to post this silly question, posted there.
On August 24 2011 19:47 _Quasar_ wrote: Guys help me pls. How do you call a Bw control group of units (full 12 of them)? It russian we call it a "pack", is there the same thing in english slang, or is it only called "control group"?
Didn't know where to post this silly question, posted there.
we call it "control group" or "a full control group"
EPT
