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Simple Questions, Simple Answers - Page 28

Forum Index > Brood War Strategy
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JMave
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
Singapore1806 Posts
August 13 2011 12:50 GMT
#541
On August 13 2011 17:56 dementrio wrote:
When I try builds that open with 12 rax 12 refinery I never have enough minerals for a factory when i hit 100 gas. Is this intended, or am i doing something wrong with my initial worker micro, do i need to cut workers or what?

hmm. if you make marines and your second depot before factory, then you would run short of minerals at 100 gas.
火心 Jealous. I always loved that feeling when I was young. Embrace it.
jello_biafra
Profile Blog Joined September 2004
United Kingdom6642 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-13 14:44:08
August 13 2011 14:43 GMT
#542
On August 13 2011 17:56 dementrio wrote:
When I try builds that open with 12 rax 12 refinery I never have enough minerals for a factory when i hit 100 gas. Is this intended, or am i doing something wrong with my initial worker micro, do i need to cut workers or what?

You should generally be taking one SCV off gas at 80 gas and the other at 88, if you're experiencing this problem try taking them off at 72 and 80 or earlier, it would also help if you posted a replay so we could see exactly what the problem is.

And yeah, make sure you're putting the factory down before you make marines, making a second depot at 15 supply should be fine though, that's the way I do it.
The road to hell is paved with good intentions | aka Probert[PaiN] @ iccup / godlikeparagon @ twitch | my BW stream: http://www.teamliquid.net/video/streams/jello_biafra
dementrio
Profile Joined November 2010
678 Posts
August 14 2011 15:52 GMT
#543
When using the tvz "fantasy build" (vulture drop into goliath/valkyrie) I have a lot of trouble when its scouted and z moves out to attack with hydras at about the time when i'm dropping his base, or when he opens with 3hatch muta and attacks immediately with his first control group of hydras (and mutas).
Are there vods/rep where t faces something similar?
CaffeineFree-_-
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
United States712 Posts
August 14 2011 20:24 GMT
#544
On August 13 2011 17:56 dementrio wrote:
When I try builds that open with 12 rax 12 refinery I never have enough minerals for a factory when i hit 100 gas. Is this intended, or am i doing something wrong with my initial worker micro, do i need to cut workers or what?

At the lower ranks just go 11/12, wall unless it's very bad on the map which is rare on iccup. You want that first rine(unless your walling) to ward off that probe and you can depot15 and pause marine after 16 put down factory and resume scv.

12/12 TvP now I see as pointless. It was used on large maps but now there's rax expo. TvT it's good though
We say we love flowers, yet we pluck them. We say we love trees, yet we cut them down. And people still wonder why some are afraid when told they are loved
don_kyuhote
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
3007 Posts
August 15 2011 16:55 GMT
#545
can irradiate kill lava or egg?
For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?
Bwenjarin Raffrack
Profile Joined November 2008
United States322 Posts
August 15 2011 18:51 GMT
#546
On August 16 2011 01:55 don_kyuhote wrote:
can irradiate kill lava or egg?

Neither larvae nor eggs (including lurker eggs) take damage from irradiate. For all intents and purposes, they are treated as mechanical units, i.e., the irradiation aura will still damage nearby susceptible units but not themselves.

If an irradiated lurker egg hatches into a lurker, the lurker will continue to be irradiated and start taking damage. If an egg hatches into two zerglings, both zerglings will be irradiated.
I'm not as thunk as dreople pink I am.
djbhINDI
Profile Joined June 2011
United States372 Posts
August 15 2011 19:11 GMT
#547
What do I do (as Terran) when Protoss gas steals against me? Building the refine at the natural significantly delays everything anyway. My current response is to fast expand, but that always gets rolled by a subsequent 2gate. It annoys me that Protoss can essentially destroy my build with two clicks.
You can't emphasize enough how much you need to be a paradigm shifter. - Savior
Crunchums
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
United States11144 Posts
August 15 2011 19:58 GMT
#548
On August 13 2011 13:22 Release wrote:
Off a 1 rax FE in a TvP, what's the correct response to a 12 nex?
I've seen Flash just pull SCVs and bunker rush, but my micro really isn't up to par.

you could try the double expand with mines thing that ver talks about in his guide to improve?
brood war for life, brood war forever
jello_biafra
Profile Blog Joined September 2004
United Kingdom6642 Posts
August 15 2011 22:58 GMT
#549
On August 16 2011 04:11 djbhINDI wrote:
What do I do (as Terran) when Protoss gas steals against me? Building the refine at the natural significantly delays everything anyway. My current response is to fast expand, but that always gets rolled by a subsequent 2gate. It annoys me that Protoss can essentially destroy my build with two clicks.

You have a number of options, safest thing to do is Rax CC and take your nat gas asap, have it up before or as the CC finishes and send SCVs down in advance to mine it. You can also proxy a couple barracks somewhere and go for a mad 3-4 rax marine all in with SCVs, it's risky but it can work. The best thing to do though is just prevent it all together by either scouting for the probe that comes to do it and getting the refinery down before he gets his assimilator or open 11/11 and start your refinery with your first 100 minerals after your depot is making then instantly take the SCV off it and get him mining till you have 150 for your Barracks and get an SCV back on it.
The road to hell is paved with good intentions | aka Probert[PaiN] @ iccup / godlikeparagon @ twitch | my BW stream: http://www.teamliquid.net/video/streams/jello_biafra
CaffeineFree-_-
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
United States712 Posts
August 15 2011 23:44 GMT
#550
On August 16 2011 04:11 djbhINDI wrote:
What do I do (as Terran) when Protoss gas steals against me? Building the refine at the natural significantly delays everything anyway. My current response is to fast expand, but that always gets rolled by a subsequent 2gate. It annoys me that Protoss can essentially destroy my build with two clicks.

http://www.teamliquid.net/replay/download.php?replay=1414

You need to kill the gas, but this was before rax expand was popular, so you can cc before gas if you want, but cc after gas like this is fine too, both will put you greatly ahead of toss. Just remember to have good bunker placement, 1scv per goon etc..
We say we love flowers, yet we pluck them. We say we love trees, yet we cut them down. And people still wonder why some are afraid when told they are loved
Harem
Profile Joined November 2007
United States11393 Posts
August 15 2011 23:56 GMT
#551
On August 16 2011 04:58 Crunchums wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 13 2011 13:22 Release wrote:
Off a 1 rax FE in a TvP, what's the correct response to a 12 nex?
I've seen Flash just pull SCVs and bunker rush, but my micro really isn't up to par.

you could try the double expand with mines thing that ver talks about in his guide to improve?

he said rax FE

you need 100 gas for mine -> double expand

Moderator。◕‿◕。
don_kyuhote
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
3007 Posts
August 16 2011 02:30 GMT
#552
On August 16 2011 03:51 Bwenjarin Raffrack wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 16 2011 01:55 don_kyuhote wrote:
can irradiate kill lava or egg?

Neither larvae nor eggs (including lurker eggs) take damage from irradiate. For all intents and purposes, they are treated as mechanical units, i.e., the irradiation aura will still damage nearby susceptible units but not themselves.

If an irradiated lurker egg hatches into a lurker, the lurker will continue to be irradiated and start taking damage. If an egg hatches into two zerglings, both zerglings will be irradiated.

Does muta morphling to Guardian/Devourer invulnerable to irradiate as well?
For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?
jello_biafra
Profile Blog Joined September 2004
United Kingdom6642 Posts
August 16 2011 10:19 GMT
#553
On August 16 2011 11:30 don_kyuhote wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 16 2011 03:51 Bwenjarin Raffrack wrote:
On August 16 2011 01:55 don_kyuhote wrote:
can irradiate kill lava or egg?

Neither larvae nor eggs (including lurker eggs) take damage from irradiate. For all intents and purposes, they are treated as mechanical units, i.e., the irradiation aura will still damage nearby susceptible units but not themselves.

If an irradiated lurker egg hatches into a lurker, the lurker will continue to be irradiated and start taking damage. If an egg hatches into two zerglings, both zerglings will be irradiated.

Does muta morphling to Guardian/Devourer invulnerable to irradiate as well?

No it damages them and they'll die if it's done early in the morphing stage, however once the guardian/devourer pops out it goes back to full health so if the irradiate is done late enough then it's possible for it to survive, especially the devourer because it has more health, but it will still be heavily damaged.
The road to hell is paved with good intentions | aka Probert[PaiN] @ iccup / godlikeparagon @ twitch | my BW stream: http://www.teamliquid.net/video/streams/jello_biafra
dementrio
Profile Joined November 2010
678 Posts
August 16 2011 11:08 GMT
#554
how can i test a wall against lings? I have a wall that is marine tight and in theory ling tight (factory over depo) but when I try it against AI it can get lings through. but it's tedious to wait and hope the ai attacks me with lings if i want to try and fix it...
jello_biafra
Profile Blog Joined September 2004
United Kingdom6642 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-16 11:30:50
August 16 2011 11:25 GMT
#555
On August 16 2011 20:08 dementrio wrote:
how can i test a wall against lings? I have a wall that is marine tight and in theory ling tight (factory over depo) but when I try it against AI it can get lings through. but it's tedious to wait and hope the ai attacks me with lings if i want to try and fix it...

Well a ling is actually smaller than a marine so it can fit through things that a marine can't, here are some helpful pics of unit sizes and the gaps in between buildings. To get it perfect though you really have to test them out yourself, make a single player game on the map you want to test, put cheats on and mind control a drone and an SCV and manually test the walls yourself with your own lings.

+ Show Spoiler [Cheats to use] +
show me the money, food for thought, the gathering, operation cwal


[image loading]

[image loading]

[image loading]

Source: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=95004
The road to hell is paved with good intentions | aka Probert[PaiN] @ iccup / godlikeparagon @ twitch | my BW stream: http://www.teamliquid.net/video/streams/jello_biafra
djbhINDI
Profile Joined June 2011
United States372 Posts
August 17 2011 19:30 GMT
#556
On August 16 2011 20:08 dementrio wrote:
how can i test a wall against lings? I have a wall that is marine tight and in theory ling tight (factory over depo) but when I try it against AI it can get lings through. but it's tedious to wait and hope the ai attacks me with lings if i want to try and fix it...

Another way is to look up the map in this thread

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=73364

and figure out if a zergling tight wall is possible. Generally, a wall that lets lings through is easily plugged by putting an SCV in the offending spot and having a marine do hold position with it.
You can't emphasize enough how much you need to be a paradigm shifter. - Savior
Release
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States4397 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-18 00:19:38
August 18 2011 00:04 GMT
#557
9pool lair vs 12pool speed expo
who wins?

also, is there any official DT drop reaver build (like kal did against forgg)?
☺
lyAsakura
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States1414 Posts
August 18 2011 02:37 GMT
#558
On August 18 2011 09:04 Release wrote:
9pool lair vs 12pool speed expo
who wins?

also, is there any official DT drop reaver build (like kal did against forgg)?


12 pool has a pretty damn large advantage.
If you 9pool'd, you pretty much gotta play 2009 jaedong perfect with your ling micro to do really anything against the expo... if the expo gets up, 9pool really has no chance tbh.
WeMade FOX would be a deadly SC2 team.
Harem
Profile Joined November 2007
United States11393 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-18 04:12:35
August 18 2011 04:11 GMT
#559
On August 18 2011 11:37 lyAsakura wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 18 2011 09:04 Release wrote:
9pool lair vs 12pool speed expo
who wins?

also, is there any official DT drop reaver build (like kal did against forgg)?


12 pool has a pretty damn large advantage.
If you 9pool'd, you pretty much gotta play 2009 jaedong perfect with your ling micro to do really anything against the expo... if the expo gets up, 9pool really has no chance tbh.

no, this isn't true

However, it's a bad question because it is so situational and can be played out in a variety of ways. It's not black and white at all so you can't just say "who wins". (Here's some examples of how to play it with 9p lair vs 12p expand speed.)

http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/korean/games/56323_HyuN_vs_Jaedong
http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/korean/games/27025_Calm_vs_Jaedong
http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/korean/games/34917_Hydra_vs_Killer/


Moderator。◕‿◕。
dementrio
Profile Joined November 2010
678 Posts
August 18 2011 17:34 GMT
#560
So,

I lose to mass recalls every tvp that I don't lose earlier to dts. I think I know what i should do against them, turrets mines emps etc, but evidently my execution is bad because i always lose to them. I am getting frustrated so I am asking for suggestions on methods to deal with it that might not be the "right" way but that may work at low level. Something like massing cloacked wraith.
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