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On November 29 2004 12:21 yOOysi wrote:
Without swarm zerg's haven't any chances against Terran in late game.
10 tanks + M&M with ups 2:2 is able to crush a huge number of zerg units.
you can go hydra/guardian, or mass hydra/lurk, or ultra/ling just like people did before defilers became so popular ( and many people still do play without defilers successfully )
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yamato gun > any beast in swarm
nuke > any beasts in the swarm
GGNORE!!!!
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Norway28804 Posts
I think its overpowered, yes. but zerg very often uses it to get back into the game, and it does require a high skill level to use properly.
I've seen (and made) some ridiculous comebacks due to swarm though, where the terran didn't really make any big mistakes.
it's like, I sorta think it's necessary to be that good, because zerg needs it, but in games that were seemlingly even until zerg gets defilers it does break the game
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On November 29 2004 12:14 Legionnaire wrote:
Firebats and medics/irradiate, you should watch Artofterran vs Julyzerg on requiem (pro league match) you will see what i mean. Its a bloody awesome game.
Why cry about one imbalance, there are quite a few.
There is a strategy forum for things like this.
hey leg do you know where you can dl this vod??
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On November 29 2004 12:37 Liquid`Drone wrote:
I think its overpowered, yes. but zerg very often uses it to get back into the game, and it does require a high skill level to use properly.
I've seen (and made) some ridiculous comebacks due to swarm though, where the terran didn't really make any big mistakes.
it's like, I sorta think it's necessary to be that good, because zerg needs it, but in games that were seemlingly even until zerg gets defilers it does break the game
ultras are already SO SO strong =[
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On November 29 2004 11:23 InFiNitY[pG] wrote:
i do think so.
example: 1 darkswarm + 2 lurks can make a way completely impassable(?) for a whole terran army while you can easily counter his main with all you got.
example 2: 1 darkswarm + 2 lurks can completely shut off an oponnents expansion. not only that, but thanks to consume you can pretty much cast swarm over and over again. The only way effective way to kill those is obviously irradiate. but its pretty much impossible, thx to the ai, to keep vessels alive vs zerglings + scourges.
what did you mean by that last part?
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2 irradiate > 2 lurks under dark swarm.
It's not imba, most zerg users now only to macro, and zerg still can get along with that - not to mention pro level of course.
It requires skill & art
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its not imbalanced. without dark swarm, zerg has to either have 4+ bases running or kill terran quick (or starve him). Basically, zerg shouldn't have to spend ludicrous amounts of cash on a non-hive army that is going to get about a 30% value for its cost. And there is no hive unit other than defiler that is cheap. It is the advantage to zerg tech without having to take the entire freaking map.
Its not imbalanced, it just adds a factor to TvZ, so that terran can't just secure the win just b/c zerg hasn't been able to expo 5 times.
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zerg need it to beat marine/medic
its strong but its very late tech
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It is difficult to beat good zerg in late game because of defiler/ultra/guard tech but Terrans are better in early-mid game and if Terran can force zerg to stop making expos Z will be never affordable to do defilers.
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it is so hard to micro, because when you have defilers it often means you have hive and mass lings/hydras/lurkers... and tank siege kill units under swarm
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yeah watch art of terran vs july zerg... I've also seen mines used pretty effectively late game vs zerg believe it or not... They buy a lot of time.
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they could fix it by making it cost 75 energy and removing consume
the gayest thing is right when you are attacking 2 defilers hatch and then they consume swarm and you cant do anything --;
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On November 29 2004 12:50 cav wrote:
what did you mean by that last part?
Marines target the units that attack them, i.e. the zerglings, thus the scourges can fly over their heads and kill the vessels without being attacked
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i dont think it is too strong.
i think the natural turtling style of terrans make this hard.
many units and their buildings such as bunkers and tanks make them defensive.
when swarm is used near terran bases it really rox them but when its used on in the field it is pretty easy to run away.
i bet many zergs are thinking that sci vessels are too strong seeing as how it can kill nearly every single zerg unit except devourers and ultralisks in 1 cast. plus it does splash damage.
use bats, use tanks efficiently, target scourge with marines,
LEAD WITH SCIS. find their defilers and irradiate them before htey reach the field.
these units obviously cost an enormous amount of gas and if you can take the zerg expos and irradiate his defilers, he wont have too much gas to work with.
gl.
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irradiate and lurker is gone
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Yes. Irradiate too strong, dark swarm too strong too. Tone them down and we wouldn't always see late game caster war in tvz.
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notice how mostly the terran users are complaining :D
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Pfft I don't like that idea. Taking energy from the filer or the vessel makes things too boring. I don't think filers are imbalanced anyhow. I mean for a zerg to pull off ling/lurk filer it requires such a high skill level to do right. Unless it's something like korhal where it's pretty straight forward. On lt for example there is so much a terran can do to hurt or stop the swarm from being used where the Z wants. Hydra/lurk with filer is good but usually the zerg would have won anyhow. Same goes with ultra/ling. Filers are fine the way they are.
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i think its even. small maps, like korhal, it makes it more even vs T. big macro maps it needs so much micro that its most viable as a comeback strategy with few units. late game, its soooo hard even for pros to use it effectively. there are some pro zergs who almost always get defiler tech and spend a lot of their practice time working on their defiler usage (such as Dream.t)theSiva), but they havent gone too far in the leagues.
But obviously right now terran are dominating WCG, and OSL and all the other korean leagues and if some zergs could start using defilers more effectively when in a balanced situation (not coming from behind), it could possibly get zergs back in the game.
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EPT
