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Skeggaba
Korea (South)1556 Posts
It seems that training is harder than ever for the players - everyone do their 12hr day/6 days a week program. The game itself is more or less balanced. And there is still this guy that wins more than 7/10 games lifetime (and even higher than that just counting the last 6 months or so)? Im not a flash fanboy at all - i have never watched a TvT / TvP but when this guy plays im tuning in just for the rape of it! | ||
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Cpadolf
Sweden1199 Posts
On March 12 2010 06:56 revy wrote: I'm wondering which SL you mean, I do hope you don't mean this past MSL. His competition was weak up until Flash and that was a highly irregular finals. His Fanta - Hero - Stork run was pretty good. I'm fairly certain nobody's had a harder (thus shown more dominance) run than Flash's JD, Bisu, Stork Bacchus title though. Ah, yes. Kal was of course an easy-cake newbie only being, what, #4 on the ELO ranking at the time. Winning over him 3-0 was of course nothing noteworthy. Anyway, it's true that Flash's Bacchus run was probably the most impressive title run ever, though Jaedong's 1st MSL run (being played at he same time as the above mentioned one) was pretty good too, winning over Bisu, Luxury, Mind, Flash and Kal when they where all among the top ranked players, with only 3 losses (each one in a Bo5). | ||
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Redshirt
434 Posts
On March 12 2010 07:37 blade55555 wrote: Agreed correct me if I am wrong but Jaedong from what I understand has always had a good rival since he's played. Again I may be wrong as I was not into starcraft (never played it either) at the time but It was Jaedong vs Bisu used to be an epic rivalry from what I understand, then Jaedong Stork and now Jaedong Flash. Flash has had from what I understand him vs stork, him vs fantasy and now him vs jaedong?. Also Jaedong has played longer and been dominant longer then flash correct only recently (September/October?) hasn't flash been coming out as possibly the #1 player? (I still think they are both equal in skill and would argue relentlessly that Flash is not better then Jaedong but I am also not saying Jaedong is better then flash). Of course I don't' know for sure and don't want to appear ignorant or anything but any corrections for me would be great. Flash had a small 4 month streak of rape around the Bacchus 2008 OSL. I think he had something like a 85% win rate and 16 straight wins in proleague in those three months and had probably the most impressive SL run ever done (Jaedong -> Bisu -> Stork). He started slumping soon after likely due to having possibly the most useless team I have ever seen in proleague. This final edit explains the state of KTF during 08-09 proleague very well. He was still good enough to get his team to 7th spot though. | ||
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TwoToneTerran
United States8841 Posts
On March 12 2010 07:59 Cpadolf wrote: Ah, yes. Kal was of course an easy-cake newbie only being, what, #4 on the ELO ranking at the time. Winning over him 3-0 was of course nothing noteworthy. Anyway, it's true that Flash's Bacchus run was probably the most impressive title run ever, though Jaedong's 1st MSL run (being played at he same time as the above mentioned one) was pretty good too, winning over Bisu, Luxury, Mind, Flash and Kal when they where all among the top ranked players, with only 3 losses (each one in a Bo5). To be fair, Kal played like absolute garbage. His noted inconsistency and bad record versus Jaedong high fived into a cacophony of suck. Flash and Jaedong can't have the best title run because they can't play themselves. That's why ForGG had the best title run. | ||
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niteReloaded
Croatia5282 Posts
I'll just call Flash GOD until Jaedong starts slumping. | ||
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okum
France5778 Posts
On March 12 2010 08:16 TwoToneTerran wrote: His noted inconsistency and bad record versus Jaedong high fived into a cacophony of suck. I'll have to memorize this phrase for future use. | ||
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Bwenjarin Raffrack
United States322 Posts
On March 12 2010 08:16 TwoToneTerran wrote: To be fair, Kal played like absolute garbage. His noted inconsistency and bad record versus Jaedong high fived into a cacophony of suck. Flash and Jaedong can't have the best title run because they can't play themselves. That's why ForGG had the best title run. Kal definitely underperformed, which was very obvious from watching the games. I mean, fifteen cannons? As I wrote in that MSL thread: On January 17 2010 07:03 Bwenjarin Raffrack wrote: Kal was being surprisingly honest when he said in the pre-game interview that he was confident in his PvZ matchup but not against Jaedong. Watching the games, I was struck over and over again with the notion that Kal was playing as if he were palpably fearful of Jaedong. And Jaedong, like he said he did against Stats, did a small zergling run-by at the start to gauge the temperament of his opponent. Kal played well, but he just didn't have the proper mentality to finish games. Jaedong dutifully sensed Kal's anxiety and hardcore bizzownderaped him. Many people refer to Jaedong's death stare, and that's definitely what happened. Poor Kal. With a blow like this series, I think he'll develop a mental block, and Jaedong will always be his angstgegner. I'll have to high-five TTT on this one. That series should have been impressive, but was barely a notch above Jaedong whipping Stats with pure zerglings. | ||
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SuperArc
Austria7781 Posts
Ok so I can use this logic to other SL runs too, forgg's wasn't incredible since JD/Flash clearly underperformed. His SL run was just lucky. Same with Flash's OSL run, how can that be incredible? JD, Bisu and Stork clearly underperformed. I hope you see the flaw in your logic. | ||
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darktreb
United States3016 Posts
On March 12 2010 18:00 SuperArc wrote: So Kal underperforming means JD had an easy MSL win? Ok so I can use this logic to other SL runs too, forgg's wasn't incredible since JD/Flash clearly underperformed. His SL run was just lucky. Same with Flash's OSL run, how can that be incredible? JD, Bisu and Stork clearly underperformed. I hope you see the flaw in your logic. Underperforming is black and white? Since when? There's underperforming and there's playing absolutely terrible. It's not just like you either underperformed or you didn't. | ||
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Vasoline73
United States7810 Posts
On March 12 2010 18:00 SuperArc wrote: Ok so I can use this logic to other SL runs too, forgg's wasn't incredible since JD/Flash clearly underperformed. His SL run was just lucky. Flash and Jaedong looked like they underperformed because ForGG was so good at analyzing his opponents at that time. He put a ton of thought into his game and it showed... The only thing that maybe he got lucky with was Flash underestimating him.. | ||
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SuperArc
Austria7781 Posts
On March 12 2010 19:51 Vasoline73 wrote: Flash and Jaedong looked like they underperformed because ForGG was so good at analyzing his opponents at that time. He put a ton of thought into his game and it showed... The only thing that maybe he got lucky with was Flash underestimating him.. I know, I don't intend to discredit forgg's run unlike others. JD's loss today makes me feel that JD peaked at the MSL finals, he showed us how to beat the perfect TvZ user. I think JD's epic career is coming to an end. Don't take me wrong, he'll still be most likely #2 player, but I doubt he will be able to play another such bo5 against Flash. | ||
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Bwenjarin Raffrack
United States322 Posts
On March 12 2010 18:00 SuperArc wrote: So Kal underperforming means JD had an easy MSL win? Ok so I can use this logic to other SL runs too, forgg's wasn't incredible since JD/Flash clearly underperformed. His SL run was just lucky. Same with Flash's OSL run, how can that be incredible? JD, Bisu and Stork clearly underperformed. I hope you see the flaw in your logic. I'm going to level with you, SuperArc. I have disliked your posts starting when you said Day[9] was unfunny in Chill vs. Combat-Ex, and it's been downhill ever since. What's most annoying is that you misrepresent someone's argument, and when they rebut you, you argue from an entirely different, new, and wholly irrelevant position. Honestly, I've seen more straw men in your posts than in my experiments with Dark Side of the Moon and The Wizard of Oz. Firstly, no one said that Kal underperfomed and, ipso facto, Jaedong's MSL win was a cakewalk. We just said Kal underperformed on the day in response to someone who inflated Kal's performance. Did you watch the games? Watching the games is a prerequisite to using words such as "clearly" and "obvious" in relation to them. Secondly, you thus can't "use this logic" and apply it to everything you see fit as if it proves anything since you have no idea what the logic is. You are clumsily misrepresenting what was actually said. The most anyone said that was even close to what you're implying was that Jaedong didn't have much stiff competition until Flash in the finals. On March 12 2010 22:13 SuperArc wrote: I know, I don't intend to discredit forgg's run unlike others. Since no one discredited forGG's run in this thread, I have to assume you're referring to those words you put in my mouth. I hope you see the flaw in your logic. Ugh. To get back on topic, Baby just hit a new Elo peak or something. Whatever. Slumpdong needs to start playing like a millionaire if he wants another title this season. | ||
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bugus
Romania133 Posts
On March 12 2010 08:00 Redshirt wrote: Flash had a small 4 month streak of rape around the Bacchus 2008 OSL. I think he had something like a 85% win rate and 16 straight wins in proleague in those three months and had probably the most impressive SL run ever done (Jaedong -> Bisu -> Stork). yes indeed - it was between 15 feb 08 till 15 jun 08 - but number of games were like half he has now in the current run which is from 1st oct 09 - till today  - so almost 6 months and it is 82.5% | ||
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Holgerius
Sweden16951 Posts
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arbiter_md
Moldova1219 Posts
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gondolin
France332 Posts
The difference between him and the number 2 (Jaedong) is larger than the difference between Jaedong and the number 13 (Kal). If we look at ELO peaks, the difference between him and the number 2 (Bisu) is larger than the difference between Bisu and the number 6. | ||
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bentnormal
112 Posts
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InFiNitY[pG]
Germany3474 Posts
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Jaksiel
United States4130 Posts
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Crunchums
United States11144 Posts
On April 04 2010 02:01 Jaksiel wrote: Isn't the common reason ForGG's run gets discredited due to the maps, not the play of his opponents? not sure how map balance factors into beating flash in tvt certainly it helped him beat jaedong | ||
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