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Who gives a shit about titles.
Casy won a Starleague title, GGplay won a Starleague title... I'm sure there are many other lesser players with titles. Everyone knows tournaments are largely affected by luck.
Flash is a scary beast and the man is basically breaking or threatening to break every record ever established in SC history. Besides, I always thought the term bonjwa is mostly attributed to a player because of his aura that puts fear into his opponents, while all the numbers of titles were just cute trivia that were shared by the former bonjwas.
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On March 12 2010 06:04 SuperArc wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2010 05:58 TwoToneTerran wrote:On March 12 2010 05:48 Mindcrime wrote:
Jaedong has won as many starleagues in the last three seasons as Savior won in his three best, and Flash gets the bonjwa talk.
I am slightly amused. People were also giving Jaedong the bonjwa talk the whole time too so basically you're making no sense. Jaedong's thing was he has a lot of titles, typical of a bonjwa. Flash's current thing is he's dominating with the amazing sense of ease and consistency, characterized by bonjwaness. Neither of them have the combination of RapeWithEase(Jaedong, despite many wins, has struggled the whole way through) + Lots of titles (Obviously Flash only has 2, separated by over a year, but he's destroying and still has a good period of time to get titles). JD pulling off the most dominant SL run ever means struggling to you?
I'm wondering which SL you mean, I do hope you don't mean this past MSL. His competition was weak up until Flash and that was a highly irregular finals. His Fanta - Hero - Stork run was pretty good. I'm fairly certain nobody's had a harder (thus shown more dominance) run than Flash's JD, Bisu, Stork Bacchus title though.
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On March 12 2010 06:46 niteReloaded wrote:
Who gives a shit about titles.
Casy won a Starleague title, GGplay won a Starleague title... I'm sure there are many other lesser players with titles. Everyone knows tournaments are largely affected by luck.
Flash is a scary beast and the man is basically breaking or threatening to break every record ever established in SC history. Besides, I always thought the term bonjwa is mostly attributed to a player because of his aura that puts fear into his opponents, while all the numbers of titles were just cute trivia that were shared by the former bonjwas.
Yea and if it's flash vs jaedong, pretty sure liquibet would split pretty much even
so clearly lacking the invincibility aura
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in my noob opinion, I think JD and Flash ought to have been both called Bonjwas... but unfortunately, they came right after the Maestro... who really defined what it meant to be the best. Honestly, the 3 terran bonjwas never were that dominant... IMO if Savior had dominated AFTER Flash/JD, we would have possibly 6 bonjwas. But the Maestro raised the bar through the roof...
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On March 12 2010 07:04 Wings wrote:
in my noob opinion, I think JD and Flash ought to have been both called Bonjwas... but unfortunately, they came right after the Maestro... who really defined what it meant to be the best. Honestly, the 3 terran bonjwas never were that dominant... IMO if Savior had dominated AFTER Flash/JD, we would have possibly 6 bonjwas. But the Maestro raised the bar through the roof...
Uhm thats just not true at all. Iloveoov and nada were both incredibly dominant at their peak.
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United States13896 Posts
I thought everyone had finally agreed after the Flash/JD final that there will never be another bonjwa ...
Why anything should change because of a number is just beyond me.
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United States20667 Posts
On March 12 2010 07:04 Wings wrote:
in my noob opinion, I think JD and Flash ought to have been both called Bonjwas... but unfortunately, they came right after the Maestro... who really defined what it meant to be the best. Honestly, the 3 terran bonjwas never were that dominant... IMO if Savior had dominated AFTER Flash/JD, we would have possibly 6 bonjwas. But the Maestro raised the bar through the roof...
iloveoov was more dominant than savior, for sure.
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On March 12 2010 06:46 niteReloaded wrote:
Who gives a shit about titles.
Casy won a Starleague title, GGplay won a Starleague title... I'm sure there are many other lesser players with titles. Everyone knows tournaments are largely affected by luck.
Flash is a scary beast and the man is basically breaking or threatening to break every record ever established in SC history. Besides, I always thought the term bonjwa is mostly attributed to a player because of his aura that puts fear into his opponents, while all the numbers of titles were just cute trivia that were shared by the former bonjwas.
I'm pretty sure that even Sea, Leta and Effort fanboys value starleague titles. So... everyone.
How many "lesser players" have two starleague golds? How many have three or more? Now how many players post good winning %s in proleague despite doing shit in starleagues where they are forced to play a series, rather than a bo1, against someone?
Bonjwa is a title given to the dominating player of an era. It was established as an accepted term near the end of the Savior era and then retroactively applied to the others. As of yet, it is not a title that has been given to a player who has amassed less starleague golds than his biggest rival and lost every bo5 against said rival because those sorts of results show the opposite of domination.
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On March 12 2010 07:18 p4NDemik wrote:
I thought everyone had finally agreed after the Flash/JD final that there will never be another bonjwa ...
Why anything should change because of a number is just beyond me.
I think its silly to say "of course its never gonna happen"
with the level of dominance flash has shown I say, while he isnt one, he has proven that it's still possible.
And if someone hard murdered Jaedong before last MSL season then flash would have surely won 2 titles and just be sooooooo far ahead of anyone else it would be near impossible not to use the B-word.
Imo flash would already be bonjwa if it wasnt for Jaedong, so I dont see why people say with such certainty that it's impossible.
Impossible is nothing.
Adidas
sorry I'm tired T_T
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On March 12 2010 06:04 SuperArc wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2010 05:58 TwoToneTerran wrote:On March 12 2010 05:48 Mindcrime wrote:
Jaedong has won as many starleagues in the last three seasons as Savior won in his three best, and Flash gets the bonjwa talk.
I am slightly amused. People were also giving Jaedong the bonjwa talk the whole time too so basically you're making no sense. Jaedong's thing was he has a lot of titles, typical of a bonjwa. Flash's current thing is he's dominating with the amazing sense of ease and consistency, characterized by bonjwaness. Neither of them have the combination of RapeWithEase(Jaedong, despite many wins, has struggled the whole way through) + Lots of titles (Obviously Flash only has 2, separated by over a year, but he's destroying and still has a good period of time to get titles). JD pulling off the most dominant SL run ever means struggling to you?
Hahahah please, the only person that he played that could be considered even remotely good is Kal and Flash - he was literally handed a spot in the finals. And even Kal's PvZ is only as good, that is not very good, as the majority of protoss players.
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On March 12 2010 07:28 7mk wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2010 07:18 p4NDemik wrote:
I thought everyone had finally agreed after the Flash/JD final that there will never be another bonjwa ...
Why anything should change because of a number is just beyond me. I think its silly to say "of course its never gonna happen" with the level of dominance flash has shown I say, while he isnt one, he has proven that it's still possible. And if someone hard murdered Jaedong before last MSL season then flash would have surely won 2 titles and just be sooooooo far ahead of anyone else it would be near impossible not to use the B-word. Imo flash would already be bonjwa if it wasnt for Jaedong, so I dont see why people say with such certainty that it's impossible. Impossible is nothing. Adidas sorry I'm tired T_T
you got it mixed up. jaedong would already be bonjwa if it wasnt for flash.
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On March 12 2010 07:32 Ideas wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2010 07:28 7mk wrote:On March 12 2010 07:18 p4NDemik wrote:
I thought everyone had finally agreed after the Flash/JD final that there will never be another bonjwa ...
Why anything should change because of a number is just beyond me. I think its silly to say "of course its never gonna happen" with the level of dominance flash has shown I say, while he isnt one, he has proven that it's still possible. And if someone hard murdered Jaedong before last MSL season then flash would have surely won 2 titles and just be sooooooo far ahead of anyone else it would be near impossible not to use the B-word. Imo flash would already be bonjwa if it wasnt for Jaedong, so I dont see why people say with such certainty that it's impossible. Impossible is nothing. Adidas sorry I'm tired T_T you got it mixed up. jaedong would already be bonjwa if it wasnt for flash.
works both ways imo
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On March 12 2010 07:32 Ideas wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2010 07:28 7mk wrote:On March 12 2010 07:18 p4NDemik wrote:
I thought everyone had finally agreed after the Flash/JD final that there will never be another bonjwa ...
Why anything should change because of a number is just beyond me. I think its silly to say "of course its never gonna happen" with the level of dominance flash has shown I say, while he isnt one, he has proven that it's still possible. And if someone hard murdered Jaedong before last MSL season then flash would have surely won 2 titles and just be sooooooo far ahead of anyone else it would be near impossible not to use the B-word. Imo flash would already be bonjwa if it wasnt for Jaedong, so I dont see why people say with such certainty that it's impossible. Impossible is nothing. Adidas sorry I'm tired T_T you got it mixed up. jaedong would already be bonjwa if it wasnt for flash.
Agreed correct me if I am wrong but Jaedong from what I understand has always had a good rival since he's played. Again I may be wrong as I was not into starcraft (never played it either) at the time but It was Jaedong vs Bisu used to be an epic rivalry from what I understand, then Jaedong Stork and now Jaedong Flash.
Flash has had from what I understand him vs stork, him vs fantasy and now him vs jaedong?.
Also Jaedong has played longer and been dominant longer then flash correct only recently (September/October?) hasn't flash been coming out as possibly the #1 player? (I still think they are both equal in skill and would argue relentlessly that Flash is not better then Jaedong but I am also not saying Jaedong is better then flash).
Of course I don't' know for sure and don't want to appear ignorant or anything but any corrections for me would be great.
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United States13896 Posts
You can bring up a hypothetical instance where Jaedong/Flash is "dead" (wtf purpose does that serve) but that doesn't change things. SC2 is going to be out in short order and competition has been so close between the players for so long now that its pointless to argue this anymore.
All that matters is that Jaedong and Flash are the two best players ever. Who cares about the b-word.
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On March 12 2010 07:41 p4NDemik wrote:
All that matters is that Jaedong and Flash are the two best players ever. Who cares about the b-word.
Everyone?
Otherwise it wouldn't be brought up in every thread every other week despite the moratorium.
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On March 12 2010 07:32 Ideas wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2010 07:28 7mk wrote:On March 12 2010 07:18 p4NDemik wrote:
I thought everyone had finally agreed after the Flash/JD final that there will never be another bonjwa ...
Why anything should change because of a number is just beyond me. I think its silly to say "of course its never gonna happen" with the level of dominance flash has shown I say, while he isnt one, he has proven that it's still possible. And if someone hard murdered Jaedong before last MSL season then flash would have surely won 2 titles and just be sooooooo far ahead of anyone else it would be near impossible not to use the B-word. Imo flash would already be bonjwa if it wasnt for Jaedong, so I dont see why people say with such certainty that it's impossible. Impossible is nothing. Adidas sorry I'm tired T_T you got it mixed up. jaedong would already be bonjwa if it wasnt for flash.
then he isnt deserving of the title bonjwa, which also works the otehr way
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On March 12 2010 07:45 TwoToneTerran wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2010 07:41 p4NDemik wrote:
All that matters is that Jaedong and Flash are the two best players ever. Who cares about the b-word. Everyone? Otherwise it wouldn't be brought up in every thread every other week despite the moratorium.
everyone who is stupid enough to actually have such need to call someone bonjwa, you might add.
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United States13896 Posts
On March 12 2010 07:45 TwoToneTerran wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2010 07:41 p4NDemik wrote:
All that matters is that Jaedong and Flash are the two best players ever. Who cares about the b-word. Everyone? Otherwise it wouldn't be brought up in every thread every other week despite the moratorium.
But why do you give a damn about a title that the players themselves agree will not be resurrected? Why attach yourselves to this concept and hinge a player's worth to it rather than just appreciate how amazingly talented they are and leave it at that?
And it most certainly isn't everyone. I can imagine there's a considerable portion of the userbase here that vomits in their mouth every time that word is mentioned because they know that theres 2-3 pages of mindless bickering to follow it.
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On March 12 2010 07:41 p4NDemik wrote:
You can bring up a hypothetical instance where Jaedong/Flash is "dead" (wtf purpose does that serve) but that doesn't change things. SC2 is going to be out in short order and competition has been so close between the players for so long now that its pointless to argue this anymore.
All that matters is that Jaedong and Flash are the two best players ever. Who cares about the b-word.
I brought up that hypothesis because it proves that it is still possible to be bonjwa.
So many people have said for a whole while now that its impossible nowadays because the overall lvl of play is too high and imo its pretty clear that that isnt true.
Also we dont know yet how long sc1 will last.
Though I will agree with you that discussions wont really lead anywhere.
And lets not forget that Jaedong and Flash dont really like the b-word either.
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Does the word bonjwa itself have a single-person connotation?
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