EPTshouldn't these games be classified under 'special event' though? thus not counting to ELO?
[spoiler] ELO Peaks - Page 18
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GTR
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KOFgokuon
United States14910 Posts
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KOFgokuon
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KOFgokuon
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fanatacist
10319 Posts
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p4NDemik
United States13896 Posts
On March 01 2009 20:09 GTR wrote: + Show Spoiler + shouldn't these games be classified under 'special event' though? thus not counting to ELO? + Show Spoiler + Yeah, granted both players seemed to take this very seriously, it is still an exhibition match that was set up between the two players. Why these games are counted AND counted towards ELO is beyond me, and then we go back and games from Season 1 of the Classic aren't even in TLPD, let alone being considered as counting towards ELO. Hell, the GomTV Star Invitational didn't affect ELO, right? Why is this? | ||
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eshlow
United States5210 Posts
On March 01 2009 20:30 p4NDemik wrote: + Show Spoiler + Yeah, granted both players seemed to take this very seriously, it is still an exhibition match that was set up between the two players. Why these games are counted AND counted towards ELO is beyond me, and then we go back and games from Season 1 of the Classic aren't even in TLPD, let alone being considered as counting towards ELO. Hell, the GomTV Star Invitational didn't affect ELO, right? Why is this? We discussed this on the previous page. | ||
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p4NDemik
United States13896 Posts
So? It was discussed but all PoP said was they're "probably sanctioned." | ||
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Centric
United States1989 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + The only positive of the night  . | ||
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eshlow
United States5210 Posts
On March 01 2009 20:35 p4NDemik wrote: So? It was discussed but all PoP said was they're "probably sanctioned." Then tell him to do undo it? Shrug. I feel they should count and I already stated my position on that... | ||
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Avidkeystamper
United States8556 Posts
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iloahz
United States964 Posts
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PoP
France15446 Posts
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Simplistik
2114 Posts
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Magic84
Russian Federation1381 Posts
Is it even possible to undo this anyway? | ||
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Letmelose
Korea (South)3227 Posts
On March 14 2009 20:43 PoP wrote: Actually I have no strong opinion on whether this showmatch should be counted towards ELO. Any korean can tell us if these games were officially sanctionned by KeSPA? No Gom TV held leagues or showdown matches were ever Kespa officiated. This includes the Invitational won by Flash, Gom Classic S1 won by Jaedong, Gom Classic S2 won by Bisu and the recent showdown between the winners of S1 and S2. I think the confusion comes from the fact that Kespa recently acknowledged Gom Classic S2 as an event, and the fact Bisu was praised in many communities as the "first protoss to win four championships". Gom Classic S2 was "acknowledged" by Kespa as an event, but they decided not to officiate it. This means that Kespa has no responsibility to officiate the games through an umpire, the results of the games go unrecorded, the results have no influence on the Kespa rankings and the teams have no obligations to take part in the league. I guess a league of similar standings would be eStars tournament or WCG Korea. They're "ackowledged" by Kespa as well, but the games that take place are not recorded by Kespa. This is as clear as I could make of of this entire "which games are official and which is not" discussion. | ||
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Magic84
Russian Federation1381 Posts
On March 14 2009 22:12 Letmelose wrote: No Gom TV held leagues or showdown matches were ever Kespa officiated. This includes the Invitational won by Flash, Gom Classic S1 won by Jaedong, Gom Classic S2 won by Bisu and the recent showdown between the winners of S1 and S2. I think the confusion comes from the fact that Kespa recently acknowledged Gom Classic S2 as an event, and the fact Bisu was praised in many communities as the "first protoss to win four championships". Gom Classic S2 was "acknowledged" by Kespa as an event, but they decided not to officiate it. This means that Kespa has no responsibility to officiate the games through an umpire, the results of the games go unrecorded, the results have no influence on the Kespa rankings and the teams have no obligations to take part in the league. I guess a league of similar standings would be eStars tournament or WCG Korea. They're "ackowledged" by Kespa as well, but the games that take place are not recorded by Kespa. This is as clear as I could make of of this entire "which games are official and which is not" discussion. So they should remove GomS2 and this event to have things nice and clean and official. Is it even possible to do now? | ||
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Letmelose
Korea (South)3227 Posts
On March 14 2009 22:03 Magic84 wrote: It was too big and noticeable not to count, regardless of Kespa approvement. It was big, money was on the line, it was not a large tournament that would mess "official" stats, and most importantly players tried their best, it was the sickest zvp series. It's not some team on team random messy showmatch or minor league. Is it even possible to undo this anyway? Well, I'm for the argument that you either count only the Kespa officiated games, or count all the games played between progamers. One thing I dislike about TLPD is that it is "selective" in the games that it records. I mean, who is to decide which games are important and which is not? The standard for listing the games seem to be pretty random. Is it the money involved? Is it whether the games are on air? Is it the number of teams that participate? Is it the quality of the games produced? Who is to decide? How come Gom TV sanctioned games get so much more attention in comparison to the games not listed by TLPD? They are not aired on television, there are teams that choose not to participate and if it's simply the prize money and the prestige of the players involved that matters, why don't we start listing some of the Superfight showdown matches as well? The concept of Kespa officiated games is so vague in the first place since progamer games on air predates the formation of Kespa. Plus, the recent format of of OSL, MSL and 5 day Proleague filling up the schedule is only like two years old. Since the vast majority of Kespa officiated games are OSL, MSL and Proleague games, we are never going to have a full picture of how players did over the years, never mind use a pointing system to "score" how they did. | ||
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~chut~
France1317 Posts
On March 14 2009 20:43 PoP wrote: Actually I have no strong opinion on whether this showmatch should be counted towards ELO. Any korean can tell us if these games were officially sanctionned by KeSPA? I think you should count every TV game, no matter if it's sacntionned by Kespa or not. I really hope you did count GOM games since the invitationnal tournament actually  ELO ranking doesn't take care about how important the game is (final / exhibition / PL, it's all the same), as long as it was played seriously and i think all theses games were played seriously. It's another mesure than kespa, i don't see any reason to strictly use games sanctionned by Kespa for this ranking. | ||
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Letmelose
Korea (South)3227 Posts
On March 14 2009 22:17 Magic84 wrote: So they should remove GomS2 and this event to have things nice and clean and official. Is it even possible to do now? I remember reading some post made by a statistic guru in Korean forums who mentioned that even FOMOS and YGOSU have weird lists of Kespa officiated games, with some games that shouldn't be there being included, and some games that should be there being missing. TLPD would need a lot of "cleaning up" to do if it wants to be completely accurate in its list of Kespa officiated games. I actually have no idea where an accurate list of Kespa officiated games exists (links anyone?), and believe the whole thing is a load of horse crap anyhow since progaming has done fine on its own before Kespa came and told us which games counts and which doesn't. They can make their retarded rankings and fine players for pausing and ridiculous things like that till the cows come home for all I care. I'm of the opinion that all database of Starcraft progaming should be more complete instead of less. People can make up their own minds from the data, and if they really want to be told what to believe, I guess they can look at pointing systems, such as Kespa rankings, WP points by MBC Games or ELO points on TLPD. Counting Gom TV games or not counting them wouldn't make the list any "better" anyhow. All list of games that doesn't count certain games (that are together a huge chunk of progaming, I might add) is subjective (even Kespa officiated games), and if we end up listing ALL games, then we're heading for disaster since none of us saw ALL those games, and have no idea how to point the scores accordingly. TLPD is fine. ELO points is fine too. I actually prefer it over Kespa rankings. Some of the opinions formed from the statistics, however, is totally retarded. People should learn to see the limitations of TLPD, rather than trying to perfect it, when we all know perfection can never be reached. | ||
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