EPTFacts
He was a racepicker and usually played TvZ, ZvP and TvT.
i dig him
FOREIGNERS HALL OF FAME. - Page 2
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ggsimida
1148 Posts
Facts He was a racepicker and usually played TvZ, ZvP and TvT. i dig him | ||
KwarK
United States43868 Posts
On April 02 2021 06:18 oxKnu wrote: Majority of those guys on that list would struggle to break A rank, even if fully practiced.. That’s ridiculous. Any of them could get A in a single day of practice. Coming back to bw after a decade isn’t that hard. | ||
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TornadoSteve
1112 Posts
Then, prolly FroZ Those 2 players are the definition of pure talent. I never won a single game against NTT and FroZ probably has a 90% winning ratio against me, and they were barely playing the game. Sure, Testie and Mondragon are probably in any safe top3 of my era but they were online 24/7 (source: i also, duh). NTT is the most intelligent and reactive player that i ever played with. It would be fun to add some legendary replays to this thread, and if anyone has NTT replays, please share them. On the other hand, FroZ was so strong. Unless he was practicing secretly, it looks like he was barely playing; a few games a week, sometimes he would disappear for a month, come back and toying with literally everyone. Both of these guys had a bw career too short to be nominated, but they both should be remembered. | ||
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blabber
United States4448 Posts
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IntoTheWow
is awesome32278 Posts
From the oldschools you also have sVEN, though he is behind others. | ||
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nyoken
United States102 Posts
People should also remember there was a time when there weren't standard unit compositions in each match up (mech in tvp) so you should consider people like Heartcutter. If you can only vote once, you obviously vote Grrrr. | ||
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Bakuryu
Germany1065 Posts
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oxKnu
1247 Posts
On April 02 2021 12:28 KwarK wrote: That’s ridiculous. Any of them could get A in a single day of practice. Coming back to bw after a decade isn’t that hard. Ehhh. One day I was watching BoxeR (yes, the Korean legend) mass up ladder games in barely A rank. Later that day I caught Bonyth streaming and he matched up with Boxer and he spanked him so hard it wasn't even funny. People's nostalgia is surely getting in the way of evaluating absolute skill in this game. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland26535 Posts
In terms of achievement, looking back Grr winning a Starleague is huge, but then again that’s kind of looking back through the prestige and the sheer skill level that Starleague Champions later embodied. I’m an enthusiastic noob who missed BW’s heyday and have cursed myself every day since. Do try to brush up on the history though. How do say Nony nearly getting through the Challenge League, or Idra being a relative monster mechanically vs the competition compare to the levels of the modern top foreigners? Curious to the thoughts of the experts. Such radically different eras, hard but interesting to compare. The early years where so much was yet to be figured out, the real fleshing out and huge mechanical skill brought about by the supremacy of the Kespa regime and how hard it was to compete with that, and the post-Kespa regime where the structure wasn’t there but incredible access to information in terms of streams etc became available. A Grr or an Elky had success in a game much less figured out, an Idra or a Ret had access to the team environment but when information was much closed off, and the modern ballers have much more information to learn off but not the environment to grind as previous generations did. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland26535 Posts
On April 02 2021 16:07 nyoken wrote: Anyone that went pro in Korea, Mondragon, Maynard, NTT, Slayer, Sven, Yosh, Fisheye, Asmodey, Androide, Froz, Day9 People should also remember there was a time when there weren't standard unit compositions in each match up (mech in tvp) so you should consider people like Heartcutter. If you can only vote once, you obviously vote Grrrr. Maynard, what a guy. My friend managed to pass the word ‘Maynarding’ in an English undergrad poetry essay. And by pass I don’t mean any subterfuge, he genuinely just thought it was an actual word. Apparently so did his lecturer. Someone else would have figured it out, but a real revolutionary discovery in RTS. The kind of thing that makes the genre so cool, you yourself may not be the greatest player in the world, but you can experiment and unravel things that really shape the game. Destiny’s unholy abuse of Infestors definitely pushed their adoption by better players along for example. | ||
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PhilGood2DaY
Germany7424 Posts
On April 02 2021 16:41 oxKnu wrote: Ehhh. One day I was watching BoxeR (yes, the Korean legend) mass up ladder games in barely A rank. Later that day I caught Bonyth streaming and he matched up with Boxer and he spanked him so hard it wasn't even funny. People's nostalgia is surely getting in the way of evaluating absolute skill in this game. Obv skill increased. Boxer is a oldschool pro. You can not compare different eras, really. But how active you are plays a massive role too (in that regards Kwark is completely correct) But the Hall of Fame is called Hall of Fame for a reason (and not Hall of most skilled/technically sound). If the latter was the case Grrrrr... wouldnt even make it in and people like Mondragon, ret, Bonyth, Dewalt, Slayer(hasulurker) would make that list easily. | ||
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True_Spike
Poland3429 Posts
Not to mention it'd be hard to rate people based on tournament winnings, because in the past we didn't have many tournaments to begin with (+most were online and the prize pools were extremely small compared to what we have today in esports). The playerbase around ~2003-2006 was probably the biggest in the entire history of foreign broodwar* - I can easily think of 50+ players deserving to go on the HoF list from that era alone. * Example: At it's biggest, there were ~80 all-Polish teams participating in a given seaosn of LigaCW - a clan league hosted by Netwars). Each match that season was played in a 7x1v1 + 3x 2v2 format, so the rosters were quite deep. It wasn't weird for a clan to have 15-20 members, or even two teams. Germany had the BWCL, which was probably just as big, if not bigger. As much as I love BW we'd be lucky to have 1/10th of the player base from that time. https://web.archive.org/web/20060222061141/http://www.netwars.pl/modules.php?name=news&dzial=3&data=&kategoria=&autor=&tytul=&tresc=&start=10 Good times  | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland26535 Posts
On April 02 2021 17:01 MaGic~PhiL wrote: Obv skill increased. Boxer is a oldschool pro. You can not compare different eras, really. But how active you are plays a massive role too (in that regards Kwark is completely correct) But the Hall of Fame is called Hall of Fame for a reason (and not Hall of most skilled/technically sound). If the latter was the case Grrrrr... wouldnt even make it in and people like Mondragon, ret, Bonyth, Dewalt, Slayer(hasulurker) would make that list easily. Yeah I mean every decent piano student can give a solid Bach recital, doesn’t mean they’re on his level, or anywhere near. Such is RTS though, all it takes is one person to copy your strategic innovation and execute it better and hey you’re supplanted. Not taking away from any of those folks at all. To have a strategic genius constantly be ahead of better mechanical players the game would have to be in a constant state of change, which would be an absolute pain to either play or follow. | ||
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BlueStar
Bulgaria1169 Posts
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outscar
2832 Posts
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PhilGood2DaY
Germany7424 Posts
On April 02 2021 17:15 WombaT wrote: Yeah I mean every decent piano student can give a solid Bach recital, doesn’t mean they’re on his level, or anywhere near. Such is RTS though, all it takes is one person to copy your strategic innovation and execute it better and hey you’re supplanted. Not taking away from any of those folks at all. To have a strategic genius constantly be ahead of better mechanical players the game would have to be in a constant state of change, which would be an absolute pain to either play or follow. Yeah it is very nuanced. We have to remember there was an era without replays. So being naturally skilled mattered even more back then compared to simply being techincal in your play. Grrrr... excelled at that for example. I mean recently I remembered something pretty insane. In ~99-02 iirc Giyom basically invented the "Grrrr... Strat" (PvZ) which was basically 1 gate into expansion. Which crazily enough is the consens best PvZ build in 2021. How crazy is that. Additionally he used Dts in PvZ to snipe drones in his OSL victory over TheBoy. That was more than a decade before Bisu did it and everyone called it a revolution of the match up (I know it kinda was regardless obv). In terms of offline success Fisheye is up there as well and probably a worthy inclusion (getting 2nd ad WCG Grand Finals is no small feat). Mondragon was the dominant non korean zerg/player for a couple of years. Also worthy obv. Elky worthy as well without a doubt. He is one of the very very few foreigners who was a "real" pro gamer. But in terms of success and impact.. Elky does not even come close to what Giyom has achieved. Well interesting stuff.. really reminds me of how much I loved that stuff back in the day. Tankful BSL is bringing back these vibes somewhat. But unfortunately the golden days are kinda over. I always dream that a Billionaire likes the game and simply funds tournaments with hundreds of thousand of dollars. How dope would that be D: | ||
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SouL)Z(Silver
Russian Federation347 Posts
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Ziggy
South Korea2106 Posts
On April 02 2021 16:30 Bakuryu wrote: what does a foreigner after 2010 has to do to get into this list? qualify for an ASL (mb ASTL?) i guess? | ||
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PhilGood2DaY
Germany7424 Posts
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TornadoSteve
1112 Posts
didi8 ?! Iefnaij ???? Come on.. Yosh is disqualified obviously ret is another talented guy from my era that i forgot | ||
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