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Wow this look great! I really hope something similar will be with Tastosis too in ASL S11!
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Very sad news.
If we were able to cope and thrive a decade or two ago, I am sure the community will find a way to do it again without an official English cast. After all, much of this community is built upon improving what we found lacking in the Starcraft environment.
Thank you for the quality entertainment you produced specifically to the western audience, and I hope you keep the spirit of Starcraft high in the future.
Cheers for the future.
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I realise this choice could be based on several reasons.
Just a thought. Profitability wise, What was Afreeca getting out of it? I mean all the adverts between games were for Korean products. So foreign viewership wasn't going to influence advertising. Maybe Blizzard was involved at one point but that would never last nor make much financial sense for the longer term. Afreeca is Korea focused.
Also, some parts of the world had streaming issues with there only being high and medium video quality settings. The solution to that was of course to visit the YouTube channel.
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So any update on that tastosis patreon? My wallet is ready.
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On March 11 2021 08:51 SchAmToo wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2021 07:46 Dangermousecatdog wrote:On March 10 2021 07:37 WaldosLonelyWife wrote:On March 10 2021 05:12 Dangermousecatdog wrote:On March 09 2021 23:09 WaldosLonelyWife wrote:On March 09 2021 21:59 Dangermousecatdog wrote:On March 09 2021 21:30 WaldosLonelyWife wrote:
Ideally we get exclusive english restreams with commentary and vods. Why would that be ideal? Why would you want an English stream to be exclusive? Let anybody who can cast in English cast, not just one person, just like it was in the past and now. Why would you want the future to be restricted? Anyways, I just watched ASL11 wildcard live at source 1080p, no problem. I believe it's fair to say we've been operating under sheer speculation. I don't want an exclusive english stream, I think in terms of business and productivity as well as professionalism it's better to have an exclusive stream on Twitch with the likes of Tastosis for example, but for every person who enjoys Tastosis there are some who don't, others who don't care, and a lot of people who wouldn't be driven to BW without. Within the context of viewership and production, it's probably the best route? That being said, it's definitely a long-term and higher priority if there is no conflict with anyone being able to stream and produce. I say ideally because we are operating in a fog of war situation, I certainly don't understand what's going to happen and how this business will play out, I'm only speculating but for example in CS:GO restreamers of a major were given copyright infringement notices and temporarily banned because the tournament organizers claimed they owned the broadcasting rights even though they are not the publisher (Valve) and that you can watch the matches in the in-game client. ASL is in fact just AfreecaStarleauge masquerading as a sponsor that essentially incubates the BroodWar talent pool within it's streaming ecosystem for a game it did not create or have the rights to. I don't want to cast shade on the organization because I do not know all the facts and there is a language and cultural barrier I'm just saying given the fact that StarCraft used to be the premier esport a level of skepticism and caution is warranted not withstanding all the positives of providing a platform for all our favorite and former players to stream, have careers, and compete still. I personally never had much problem with Afreeca either streaming from the East coast with broadband 100/30 connection, and in-fact having just browsed again I can say they made small but consistent improvements to connectivity and UI. I do know many people say they had and continue to have problems, and it's not helped that they seemingly broke the VLC method a while ago or it doesn't work for me anymore; but again It's hard to tell who "AfreecaTV" is compared to "ASL" unlike let's say KSL and Blizzard or a spotv and Kespa. Yes, you wrote a lot, but that doesn't answer the question. Why do you think an exclusive English stream is ideal? You say you don't want it, yet you think it is the ideal. It isn't, it is the worse idea, to kill off all community English casters. The ideal would be what it was before and as now; that restreams of any language are inclusive. An exclusive english stream would enable the best quality production and content it should not equal the exclusion of communities or languages other than english so it would be better to license a foreigner production that could include all the niches of the foreign scene while vitalizing the relationship between Korean production and broadcast. It remains to be seen how broadcasting will play out without an official ASL stream right? What is ASL going to 28/03 in regards to any broadcast using their content. Ideally as you say nothing happens, anyone can restream and this speculation is moot and pointless. Why would an exclusive english stream enable the best quality production and content? What do you mean by vitalising? We know how an official ASL stream looks like, they are now on their 11th ASL tournament. I watched their wildcard placement live stream a few days ago at 1080p. It works perfectly fine. On March 10 2021 10:17 SchAmToo wrote:On March 10 2021 05:12 Dangermousecatdog wrote:
Yes, you wrote a lot, but that doesn't answer the question. Why do you think an exclusive English stream is ideal? You say you don't want it, yet you think it is the ideal.
? As an english community caster i feel like i have 0 overlap with ASL/ASTL and if it were to have an exclusive english cast happen i'd be happy. What is this fake "wont someone think of the children" line lol Never heard of you, but then again I'm only interested of the highest quality tournaments which is ASL right now and has been for the past few years. If you consider yourself as one of your own self proclaimed children I am certainly not asking anyone to think of you.I don't udnerstand why anyone would want an exclusive English stream. ASL has always allowed restreams and recast of their live streams, English or otherwise. You may not be interested in casting ASL but why would you suddenly seek to deny others who happen to speak English to restream ASL? Show nested quote + Never heard of you, but then again I'm only interested of the highest quality tournaments So, you only want highest quality tours, but care about community casters being killed off? I'm confused. Community casters don't have high quality streams, and if they do theyre operating at a HUGE loss $ wise. Also, exclusive or not, others have been covering ASL games I think (SuperSaiyan? FalconPaladin? I think?)... do you care about the games? or the commentators? If the commentator isn't observing perfectly does it matter it's a great game? What are you talking about? ASL IS the highest quality tournament. The skill of the Korean pros cannot be in doubt. ASL is the tournament that features the highest skilled players. They are far and beyond any foreigner. The quality of ASL is beyond any foreigner tournament.
I have been watching ASL with no problems on 720p for the last two years. I just watched their wildcard tournament a week ago live at 1080p without problems.
You may not care about casting ASL, but why would you want to prevent those who would want to cast ASL? It's bizarre. It cannot be justified.
On March 11 2021 14:45 WaldosLonelyWife wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On March 11 2021 07:46 Dangermousecatdog wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2021 07:37 WaldosLonelyWife wrote:On March 10 2021 05:12 Dangermousecatdog wrote:On March 09 2021 23:09 WaldosLonelyWife wrote:On March 09 2021 21:59 Dangermousecatdog wrote:On March 09 2021 21:30 WaldosLonelyWife wrote:
Ideally we get exclusive english restreams with commentary and vods. Why would that be ideal? Why would you want an English stream to be exclusive? Let anybody who can cast in English cast, not just one person, just like it was in the past and now. Why would you want the future to be restricted? Anyways, I just watched ASL11 wildcard live at source 1080p, no problem. I believe it's fair to say we've been operating under sheer speculation. I don't want an exclusive english stream, I think in terms of business and productivity as well as professionalism it's better to have an exclusive stream on Twitch with the likes of Tastosis for example, but for every person who enjoys Tastosis there are some who don't, others who don't care, and a lot of people who wouldn't be driven to BW without. Within the context of viewership and production, it's probably the best route? That being said, it's definitely a long-term and higher priority if there is no conflict with anyone being able to stream and produce. I say ideally because we are operating in a fog of war situation, I certainly don't understand what's going to happen and how this business will play out, I'm only speculating but for example in CS:GO restreamers of a major were given copyright infringement notices and temporarily banned because the tournament organizers claimed they owned the broadcasting rights even though they are not the publisher (Valve) and that you can watch the matches in the in-game client. ASL is in fact just AfreecaStarleauge masquerading as a sponsor that essentially incubates the BroodWar talent pool within it's streaming ecosystem for a game it did not create or have the rights to. I don't want to cast shade on the organization because I do not know all the facts and there is a language and cultural barrier I'm just saying given the fact that StarCraft used to be the premier esport a level of skepticism and caution is warranted not withstanding all the positives of providing a platform for all our favorite and former players to stream, have careers, and compete still. I personally never had much problem with Afreeca either streaming from the East coast with broadband 100/30 connection, and in-fact having just browsed again I can say they made small but consistent improvements to connectivity and UI. I do know many people say they had and continue to have problems, and it's not helped that they seemingly broke the VLC method a while ago or it doesn't work for me anymore; but again It's hard to tell who "AfreecaTV" is compared to "ASL" unlike let's say KSL and Blizzard or a spotv and Kespa. Yes, you wrote a lot, but that doesn't answer the question. Why do you think an exclusive English stream is ideal? You say you don't want it, yet you think it is the ideal. It isn't, it is the worse idea, to kill off all community English casters. The ideal would be what it was before and as now; that restreams of any language are inclusive. An exclusive english stream would enable the best quality production and content it should not equal the exclusion of communities or languages other than english so it would be better to license a foreigner production that could include all the niches of the foreign scene while vitalizing the relationship between Korean production and broadcast. It remains to be seen how broadcasting will play out without an official ASL stream right? What is ASL going to 28/03 in regards to any broadcast using their content. Ideally as you say nothing happens, anyone can restream and this speculation is moot and pointless. Why would an exclusive english stream enable the best quality production and content? What do you mean by vitalising? We know how an official ASL stream looks like, they are now on their 11th ASL tournament. I watched their wildcard placement live stream a few days ago at 1080p. It works perfectly fine. Show nested quote +On March 10 2021 10:17 SchAmToo wrote:On March 10 2021 05:12 Dangermousecatdog wrote:
Yes, you wrote a lot, but that doesn't answer the question. Why do you think an exclusive English stream is ideal? You say you don't want it, yet you think it is the ideal. It isn't, it is the worse idea, to kill off all community English casters.
? As an english community caster i feel like i have 0 overlap with ASL/ASTL and if it were to have an exclusive english cast happen i'd be happy. What is this fake "wont someone think of the children" line lol Never heard of you, but then again I'm only interested of the highest quality tournaments which is ASL right now and has been for the past few years. If you consider yourself as one of your own self proclaimed children I am certainly not asking anyone to think of you.I don't udnerstand why anyone would want an exclusive English stream. ASL has always allowed restreams and recast of their live streams, English or otherwise. You may not be interested in casting ASL but why would you suddenly seek to deny others who happen to speak English to restream ASL? Let's remove the term exclusive and ask the question again. Would having multiple english streams provide quality production and content. I believe that's up for a debate but In my opinion the answer is no. Vitalizing means allowing for growth parallel to content provided by ASL. We now know ASL has cut content for the english stream and neutered their YouTube feed, one can assume that they are not interested in catering to the foreign audience. On March 11 2021 08:15 Dangermousecatdog wrote:
No really, why would anyone want ASL to have an exclusive English cast? An English cast yes, but to make it exclusive why? ASL has an English cast for the past few years and it was never exclusive, so why call for it out of the blue? I genuinely want to understand.
I never said it will kill off the foreign casting scene. When I wrote it will kill off all community English casters, I meant specifically for ASL. And yes an exclusive stream will kill off all other English casters for ASL. It's kind of the point of an exclusive stream. This is what I don't understand. Why call to make an English stream exclusive? It was never a condition of ASL stream. ASL has never made their English stream exclusive, they don't even make their Korean exclusive so why call for one now? ASL contracted english speaking commentators to broadcast their content to a foreign audience. I believe that qualifies as exclusive. I've already answered your question and I qualified my statement by saying It's not something I want nor do I think it is the only option. The confusion begins with you believing exclusivity=exclusion, I reject the idea that "exclusive" will kill community casting, and the ideal as you believe it to exist never existed because before it was always the same business model of Afreeca sponsoring ASL and paying casters as well as providing a YouTube stream with production and VODS. Anyone can restream ASL on Afreeca using any language. I believe it's counter-productive to make Afreeca the "exclusive" platform for ASL. On March 10 2021 19:02 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2021 08:56 WaldosLonelyWife wrote:On March 10 2021 07:44 Gorsameth wrote:On March 10 2021 07:37 WaldosLonelyWife wrote:On March 10 2021 05:12 Dangermousecatdog wrote:On March 09 2021 23:09 WaldosLonelyWife wrote:On March 09 2021 21:59 Dangermousecatdog wrote:On March 09 2021 21:30 WaldosLonelyWife wrote:
Ideally we get exclusive english restreams with commentary and vods. Why would that be ideal? Why would you want an English stream to be exclusive? Let anybody who can cast in English cast, not just one person, just like it was in the past and now. Why would you want the future to be restricted? Anyways, I just watched ASL11 wildcard live at source 1080p, no problem. I believe it's fair to say we've been operating under sheer speculation. I don't want an exclusive english stream, I think in terms of business and productivity as well as professionalism it's better to have an exclusive stream on Twitch with the likes of Tastosis for example, but for every person who enjoys Tastosis there are some who don't, others who don't care, and a lot of people who wouldn't be driven to BW without. Within the context of viewership and production, it's probably the best route? That being said, it's definitely a long-term and higher priority if there is no conflict with anyone being able to stream and produce. I say ideally because we are operating in a fog of war situation, I certainly don't understand what's going to happen and how this business will play out, I'm only speculating but for example in CS:GO restreamers of a major were given copyright infringement notices and temporarily banned because the tournament organizers claimed they owned the broadcasting rights even though they are not the publisher (Valve) and that you can watch the matches in the in-game client. ASL is in fact just AfreecaStarleauge masquerading as a sponsor that essentially incubates the BroodWar talent pool within it's streaming ecosystem for a game it did not create or have the rights to. I don't want to cast shade on the organization because I do not know all the facts and there is a language and cultural barrier I'm just saying given the fact that StarCraft used to be the premier esport a level of skepticism and caution is warranted not withstanding all the positives of providing a platform for all our favorite and former players to stream, have careers, and compete still. I personally never had much problem with Afreeca either streaming from the East coast with broadband 100/30 connection, and in-fact having just browsed again I can say they made small but consistent improvements to connectivity and UI. I do know many people say they had and continue to have problems, and it's not helped that they seemingly broke the VLC method a while ago or it doesn't work for me anymore; but again It's hard to tell who "AfreecaTV" is compared to "ASL" unlike let's say KSL and Blizzard or a spotv and Kespa. Yes, you wrote a lot, but that doesn't answer the question. Why do you think an exclusive English stream is ideal? You say you don't want it, yet you think it is the ideal. It isn't, it is the worse idea, to kill off all community English casters. The ideal would be what it was before and as now; that restreams of any language are inclusive. An exclusive english stream would enable the best quality production and content it should not equal the exclusion of communities or languages other than english so it would be better to license a foreigner production that could include all the niches of the foreign scene while vitalizing the relationship between Korean production and broadcast. It remains to be seen how broadcasting will play out without an official ASL stream right? What is ASL going to 28/03 in regards to any broadcast using their content. Ideally as you say nothing happens, anyone can restream and this speculation is moot and pointless. I am confused. Don't they directly say in the OP that anyone can restream the games on Afreeca? There is no 'license' situation. Communities and English casters are still allowed, and encouraged, to broadcast the ASL to their own fans through our clean feed on their AfreecaTV Channels. It says their own AfreecaTV channels. This implies exclusivity. If you stream ASL on Twitch/YouTube you could run into problems potentially if you don't have permission, denied permission or you attempt to monetize ASL content without consent. Whenever ASL is streamed on BJ channels like hero, Best, Zero or anyone on Twitch they disable Twitch streams. If ASL is cancelling english afreeca, and closing YouTube I hope it means nothing and they can be taken at face value when saying broadcasting to their own fans through clean feed is encouraged and not a problem. Yes, you have to stream on Afreeca, it says it right there. Yes that means you can't stream on Twitch/Youtube and no you’re not going to get a license to do so (atleast no 'amateur’ caster will be able to offer enough money to convince them otherwise). Again, there is no confusion here. Anyone who wants to stream and commentate on this can do so if they use Afreeca. And won't be able to do so if they don't. Yes its exclusive to Afreeca and anyone can stream it there. If both of you for example think this is a good thing then the confusion lies in me not articulating why this is bad, I believed it to be self-explanatory in the context of Broodwar and international growth. On March 11 2021 08:27 Jealous wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2021 08:15 Dangermousecatdog wrote:
No really, why would anyone want ASL to have an exclusive English cast? An English cast yes, but to make it exclusive why? ASL has an English cast for the past few years and it was never exclusive, so why call for it out of the blue? I genuinely want to understand.
I never said it will kill off the foreign casting scene. When I wrote it will kill off all community English casters, I meant specifically for ASL. And yes an exclusive stream will kill off all other English casters for ASL. It's kind of the point of an exclusive stream. This is what I don't understand. Why call to make an English stream exclusive? It was never a condition. ASL has never made their English stream exclusive, so why call for one now? My initial read-through of Waldo's posts gave me the impression that they have a tenuous grasp of English, but consequent posts have highlighted one reason - official, high-level production value. I don't think anyone but Waldo is arguing FOR exclusive English casting rights. What the discussion has pivoted to is that even if there were exclusive casting rights, it wouldn't make much of an impact on foreign casters. With your clarification though, of course that is a -> b logic, so no argument there. It just wasn't clear in your initial post that Schamtoo responded to IMO (don't mean to speak for the man). I specifically stated in italics that I do not "want" what has been leveled against me, I'm simply arguing sporadically and out of context the many reasons why I believe for example having an "official" stream for "english and other languages" is a positive. On March 11 2021 08:33 Dangermousecatdog wrote:
OK I get it. I reread the posts. I thought it was contextually obvious that I was speaking about ASL, but Schamtoo thought I was talking about the foreigner scene casting, which I quite honestly do not watch (sorry, I'm sure you guys do good work).
And perhaps Waldo has no idea what exclusive actually means, (it doesn't mean official or production value) but I would suppose that depends on Waldo to clarify. Neither of us know what exclusivity means in context of a Korean owned business providing a service they have now cancelled. It would appear that they are cancelling the english stream and assuming they employ Tasteless and Artosis as well as the couple other foreign community casters who get paid for their work they are going to be making them cast games other than Broodwar. With all of this being said I will clarify that having ASL pay casters to provide a service was a good thing. If ASL will not allow anyone outside of Afreeca.tv to stream ASL tournaments and/or commentate and upload those VOD's this is bad. ASL being the premier tournament in existence new and existing viewers would be deprived of a non-Korean production. This seems like a downward trajectory; ASL closed their Twitch a while ago, they have now shuttered the english production and ceased streaming on YouTube. I understand the business decision, but I would say that Twitch ASL games would reach thousands of viewers, as well as the thousands of viewers on YouTube. Between those numbers opportunity is present for growth and expansion however minuscule by comparison to the greater esports ecosystem. I'm not complaining or casting aspersions to be simply negative. At the end of the day we still get to watch ASL. I'm just disappointed and I don't believe it's even a good decision to begin with. If Broodwar is truly niche outside of Korea and it's simply not profitable to employ foreign casters or provide a foreign production then so be it. I will say in closing that even if this is true foreign producers in whatever capacity they exist currently in my opinion would be punished because community casting however passionate would have less incentive and an even harder time breaking even or turning a profit. If that's even a thing. I'll put it this way - I would rather watch a restream with an english chat or a commentated VOD on youtube then sit through a Korean broadcast on a Korean website, and it's not because I don't like Korean commentary or the Korean website.
On March 11 2021 14:45 WaldosLonelyWife wrote:ASL contracted english speaking commentators to broadcast their content to a foreign audience. I believe that qualifies as exclusive. No, that is not exclusive no matter what you believe, that's just contracting an english speaking commentator. That is an English cast. It is not an exclusive English cast.
On March 11 2021 14:45 WaldosLonelyWife wrote:The confusion begins with you believing exclusivity=exclusion That's exactly what exclusive means. When you say you find an exclusive English cast ideal, it means you find an English cast that exclude all other English casts ideal, so that one cast is the sole source of English cast. It's quite unbeleivable, I ask a simple question and get a load of blather in return. If you miswrote exclusive that would had been fine, as just an extraneous word that hold no meaning and can be omitted. but then you went ahead to say that ASL qualifies as having an exclusive English cast, which was never the case. But whatever, it's clear now you don't aim to communicate, only to obscurate.
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Spanish casters Deathfate and Jan cast from their home setup voicing over the Korean stream. And they do a hell of a good job. But I can't understand the full of Afreeca's decision. Their website is basically only for Koreans. It lags like hell, it stalls, it crashed 13 times, for me, during the wildcard stream the other day. And I had downset the quality to 720... So, why get less exposure in the "western" world by forbidding the streamers on YouTube? I'm only going to speak shit about their website, and I'm not going to recommend it to anyone. So, in my mind, it's a terrible commercial decision. The impact of hundreds of thousands of views on YouTube is exponential; as is Twitch. They are trying to compete against rivals that aren't in their same league. Hell, not even their same sport...
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On March 12 2021 06:15 Zekkezgz wrote:
Spanish casters Deathfate and Jan cast from their home setup voicing over the Korean stream. And they do a hell of a good job. But I can't understand the full of Afreeca's decision. Their website is basically only for Koreans. It lags like hell, it stalls, it crashed 13 times, for me, during the wildcard stream the other day. And I had downset the quality to 720... So, why get less exposure in the "western" world by forbidding the streamers on YouTube? I'm only going to speak shit about their website, and I'm not going to recommend it to anyone. So, in my mind, it's a terrible commercial decision. The impact of hundreds of thousands of views on YouTube is exponential; as is Twitch. They are trying to compete against rivals that aren't in their same league. Hell, not even their same sport... Because they want people to be on their platform.
Having 100k people watch on Youtube does absolutely nothing for the company, the western exposure is meaningless to them as a Korean company, the Korean advertisements do nothing.
By forcing you to watch on Afreeca you contribute to the number of viewers on their platform, which is what this is all about.
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On March 12 2021 06:32 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2021 06:15 Zekkezgz wrote:
Spanish casters Deathfate and Jan cast from their home setup voicing over the Korean stream. And they do a hell of a good job. But I can't understand the full of Afreeca's decision. Their website is basically only for Koreans. It lags like hell, it stalls, it crashed 13 times, for me, during the wildcard stream the other day. And I had downset the quality to 720... So, why get less exposure in the "western" world by forbidding the streamers on YouTube? I'm only going to speak shit about their website, and I'm not going to recommend it to anyone. So, in my mind, it's a terrible commercial decision. The impact of hundreds of thousands of views on YouTube is exponential; as is Twitch. They are trying to compete against rivals that aren't in their same league. Hell, not even their same sport... Because they want people to be on their platform. Having 100k people watch on Youtube does absolutely nothing for the company, the western exposure is meaningless to them as a Korean company, the Korean advertisements do nothing. By forcing you to watch on Afreeca you contribute to the number of viewers on their platform, which is what this is all about.
but how forcing foreigners watching it on Afreeca gonna help them?  it's still showing Korean adds on Afreeca
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On March 12 2021 07:35 lamarine wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2021 06:32 Gorsameth wrote:On March 12 2021 06:15 Zekkezgz wrote:
Spanish casters Deathfate and Jan cast from their home setup voicing over the Korean stream. And they do a hell of a good job. But I can't understand the full of Afreeca's decision. Their website is basically only for Koreans. It lags like hell, it stalls, it crashed 13 times, for me, during the wildcard stream the other day. And I had downset the quality to 720... So, why get less exposure in the "western" world by forbidding the streamers on YouTube? I'm only going to speak shit about their website, and I'm not going to recommend it to anyone. So, in my mind, it's a terrible commercial decision. The impact of hundreds of thousands of views on YouTube is exponential; as is Twitch. They are trying to compete against rivals that aren't in their same league. Hell, not even their same sport... Because they want people to be on their platform. Having 100k people watch on Youtube does absolutely nothing for the company, the western exposure is meaningless to them as a Korean company, the Korean advertisements do nothing. By forcing you to watch on Afreeca you contribute to the number of viewers on their platform, which is what this is all about. but how forcing foreigners watching it on Afreeca gonna help them? it's still showing Korean adds on Afreeca You show up in metrics, that is what matters. The Korean advertisers that see the number of people on the platform likely are not going to look to do at how big a % is foreigners who are useless.
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This is really terrible, I love ASL. 
Hoping something can be worked out for foreign viewers
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On March 12 2021 07:35 lamarine wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2021 06:32 Gorsameth wrote:On March 12 2021 06:15 Zekkezgz wrote:
Spanish casters Deathfate and Jan cast from their home setup voicing over the Korean stream. And they do a hell of a good job. But I can't understand the full of Afreeca's decision. Their website is basically only for Koreans. It lags like hell, it stalls, it crashed 13 times, for me, during the wildcard stream the other day. And I had downset the quality to 720... So, why get less exposure in the "western" world by forbidding the streamers on YouTube? I'm only going to speak shit about their website, and I'm not going to recommend it to anyone. So, in my mind, it's a terrible commercial decision. The impact of hundreds of thousands of views on YouTube is exponential; as is Twitch. They are trying to compete against rivals that aren't in their same league. Hell, not even their same sport... Because they want people to be on their platform. Having 100k people watch on Youtube does absolutely nothing for the company, the western exposure is meaningless to them as a Korean company, the Korean advertisements do nothing. By forcing you to watch on Afreeca you contribute to the number of viewers on their platform, which is what this is all about. but how forcing foreigners watching it on Afreeca gonna help them? it's still showing Korean adds on Afreeca
...? you use the platform????
how is that even a question jesus lmao.
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On March 12 2021 13:21 jinjin5000 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2021 07:35 lamarine wrote:On March 12 2021 06:32 Gorsameth wrote:On March 12 2021 06:15 Zekkezgz wrote:
Spanish casters Deathfate and Jan cast from their home setup voicing over the Korean stream. And they do a hell of a good job. But I can't understand the full of Afreeca's decision. Their website is basically only for Koreans. It lags like hell, it stalls, it crashed 13 times, for me, during the wildcard stream the other day. And I had downset the quality to 720... So, why get less exposure in the "western" world by forbidding the streamers on YouTube? I'm only going to speak shit about their website, and I'm not going to recommend it to anyone. So, in my mind, it's a terrible commercial decision. The impact of hundreds of thousands of views on YouTube is exponential; as is Twitch. They are trying to compete against rivals that aren't in their same league. Hell, not even their same sport... Because they want people to be on their platform. Having 100k people watch on Youtube does absolutely nothing for the company, the western exposure is meaningless to them as a Korean company, the Korean advertisements do nothing. By forcing you to watch on Afreeca you contribute to the number of viewers on their platform, which is what this is all about. but how forcing foreigners watching it on Afreeca gonna help them? it's still showing Korean adds on Afreeca ...? you use the platform???? how is that even a question jesus lmao.
Eh, its sort of a valid question if you think about it.
Advertisement middlemen are really smart these days and pay a lot of attention to the demographic of the viewer-base. Targeting ads at the right people is a metric.
What's more problematic is that Afreeca can't find a cost effective way to monetize their product to an international audience. Sure it won't bring them any huge returns but completely dismissing that market seems like a huge mistake.
I think this whole situation is also due to a language and culture barrier.
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On March 12 2021 17:25 oxKnu wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2021 13:21 jinjin5000 wrote:On March 12 2021 07:35 lamarine wrote:On March 12 2021 06:32 Gorsameth wrote:On March 12 2021 06:15 Zekkezgz wrote:
Spanish casters Deathfate and Jan cast from their home setup voicing over the Korean stream. And they do a hell of a good job. But I can't understand the full of Afreeca's decision. Their website is basically only for Koreans. It lags like hell, it stalls, it crashed 13 times, for me, during the wildcard stream the other day. And I had downset the quality to 720... So, why get less exposure in the "western" world by forbidding the streamers on YouTube? I'm only going to speak shit about their website, and I'm not going to recommend it to anyone. So, in my mind, it's a terrible commercial decision. The impact of hundreds of thousands of views on YouTube is exponential; as is Twitch. They are trying to compete against rivals that aren't in their same league. Hell, not even their same sport... Because they want people to be on their platform. Having 100k people watch on Youtube does absolutely nothing for the company, the western exposure is meaningless to them as a Korean company, the Korean advertisements do nothing. By forcing you to watch on Afreeca you contribute to the number of viewers on their platform, which is what this is all about. but how forcing foreigners watching it on Afreeca gonna help them? it's still showing Korean adds on Afreeca ...? you use the platform???? how is that even a question jesus lmao. Eh, its sort of a valid question if you think about it. Advertisement middlemen are really smart these days and pay a lot of attention to the demographic of the viewer-base. Targeting ads at the right people is a metric. What's more problematic is that Afreeca can't find a cost effective way to monetize their product to an international audience. Sure it won't bring them any huge returns but completely dismissing that market seems like a huge mistake. I think this whole situation is also due to a language and culture barrier.
This is ignoring the cost of providing the service. We would somehow need to generate enough value to pay Tastosis as well as all of the costs that go into providing the cast - camera and audio crew, set construction, make-up, bandwidth, etc. Furthermore, I read during the Gillette-sponsored tournament (I forget which one it was now) that the advertiser is Gillette of Korea, meaning that even if you go to the grocery store and buy a hundred Gillette products, the Korean sponsor doesn't get any return. I imagine this is the situation for most of their advertisers and sponsors.
So, what would be the way to generate revenue? I guess there could be a subscription model for international users only, but I find it hard to believe that Afreeca simply made a "mistake" and don't have a team of financial and marketing specialists whose job is precisely determining the viability and profitability of various products and services. There would, of course, be an initial investment into a service of this nature, which in turn would require English-speaking customer service and other longterm expenses. This would also immediately alienate all of the international viewers who can't afford a subscription, who can't use the Afreeca platform consistently, etc. To assume that they didn't consider how to profit from English casts is horribly naive IMO - especially given the fact that Artosis said that him and Tasteless have been trying to negotiate with Afreeca for a while, presumably months. Do you think that Afreeca just waved their proverbial hand at them without considering their arguments (or without having already considered them)?
No organization of such size would make a decision to stop a service they already provide arbitrarily. The more I consider the overall situation, the more I get the impression that Afreeca has provided 10 seasons of English entertainment at a loss, and after going over the numbers, decided it wasn't worth it. Not that one day they just up and said, "Hey, let's just make a bunch of English-speaking chobos on the internet upset!"
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On March 12 2021 21:50 Jealous wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2021 17:25 oxKnu wrote:On March 12 2021 13:21 jinjin5000 wrote:On March 12 2021 07:35 lamarine wrote:On March 12 2021 06:32 Gorsameth wrote:On March 12 2021 06:15 Zekkezgz wrote:
Spanish casters Deathfate and Jan cast from their home setup voicing over the Korean stream. And they do a hell of a good job. But I can't understand the full of Afreeca's decision. Their website is basically only for Koreans. It lags like hell, it stalls, it crashed 13 times, for me, during the wildcard stream the other day. And I had downset the quality to 720... So, why get less exposure in the "western" world by forbidding the streamers on YouTube? I'm only going to speak shit about their website, and I'm not going to recommend it to anyone. So, in my mind, it's a terrible commercial decision. The impact of hundreds of thousands of views on YouTube is exponential; as is Twitch. They are trying to compete against rivals that aren't in their same league. Hell, not even their same sport... Because they want people to be on their platform. Having 100k people watch on Youtube does absolutely nothing for the company, the western exposure is meaningless to them as a Korean company, the Korean advertisements do nothing. By forcing you to watch on Afreeca you contribute to the number of viewers on their platform, which is what this is all about. but how forcing foreigners watching it on Afreeca gonna help them? it's still showing Korean adds on Afreeca ...? you use the platform???? how is that even a question jesus lmao. Eh, its sort of a valid question if you think about it. Advertisement middlemen are really smart these days and pay a lot of attention to the demographic of the viewer-base. Targeting ads at the right people is a metric. What's more problematic is that Afreeca can't find a cost effective way to monetize their product to an international audience. Sure it won't bring them any huge returns but completely dismissing that market seems like a huge mistake. I think this whole situation is also due to a language and culture barrier. This is ignoring the cost of providing the service. We would somehow need to generate enough value to pay Tastosis as well as all of the costs that go into providing the cast - camera and audio crew, set construction, make-up, bandwidth, etc. Furthermore, I read during the Gillette-sponsored tournament (I forget which one it was now) that the advertiser is Gillette of Korea, meaning that even if you go to the grocery store and buy a hundred Gillette products, the Korean sponsor doesn't get any return. I imagine this is the situation for most of their advertisers and sponsors. So, what would be the way to generate revenue? I guess there could be a subscription model for international users only, but I find it hard to believe that Afreeca simply made a "mistake" and don't have a team of financial and marketing specialists whose job is precisely determining the viability and profitability of various products and services. There would, of course, be an initial investment into a service of this nature, which in turn would require English-speaking customer service and other longterm expenses. This would also immediately alienate all of the international viewers who can't afford a subscription, who can't use the Afreeca platform consistently, etc. To assume that they didn't consider how to profit from English casts is horribly naive IMO - especially given the fact that Artosis said that him and Tasteless have been trying to negotiate with Afreeca for a while, presumably months. Do you think that Afreeca just waved their proverbial hand at them without considering their arguments (or without having already considered them)? No organization of such size would make a decision to stop a service they already provide arbitrarily. The more I consider the overall situation, the more I get the impression that Afreeca has provided 10 seasons of English entertainment at a loss, and after going over the numbers, decided it wasn't worth it. Not that one day they just up and said, "Hey, let's just make a bunch of English-speaking chobos on the internet upset!"
You're taking a pretty narrow view on the matter though.
You're assuming that ASL in English can only exist if Artosis and Tasteless are casting it.I beg to differ.
Sure it might seem that way given how popular the casters are but in all reality ASL can be brought in English to an international audience at a pretty low cost too. So low that Afreeca might think to themselves: "Huh? Why bother"
The "Why bother?" is pretty disturbing if Afreeca considers themselves a competent online streaming platform. We live in the era where sharks live and breathe for the next 'hit'.
Imagine that in 2 years SC2 dies and SC1 has some crazy boom and a lot of popular streamers start playing it and the scene takes off. Sure, rather unlikely but there's still a possibility in there.
In that case imagine being Afreeca and losing an incredible opportunity to instill yourself as a leading organizer in that space. Pretty huge blunder to make when the cost of just maintaining at least a footprint in the scene could be as cheap as hiring some rando's to cast on some global streaming platform and then take a cut off of the profits, if any.
This part I have huge trouble understanding. The part about people being "upset" because they've lost their favorite casting duo for an event is expected and find rather meh, especially in today's age.
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On March 13 2021 01:01 oxKnu wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2021 21:50 Jealous wrote:On March 12 2021 17:25 oxKnu wrote:On March 12 2021 13:21 jinjin5000 wrote:On March 12 2021 07:35 lamarine wrote:On March 12 2021 06:32 Gorsameth wrote:On March 12 2021 06:15 Zekkezgz wrote:
Spanish casters Deathfate and Jan cast from their home setup voicing over the Korean stream. And they do a hell of a good job. But I can't understand the full of Afreeca's decision. Their website is basically only for Koreans. It lags like hell, it stalls, it crashed 13 times, for me, during the wildcard stream the other day. And I had downset the quality to 720... So, why get less exposure in the "western" world by forbidding the streamers on YouTube? I'm only going to speak shit about their website, and I'm not going to recommend it to anyone. So, in my mind, it's a terrible commercial decision. The impact of hundreds of thousands of views on YouTube is exponential; as is Twitch. They are trying to compete against rivals that aren't in their same league. Hell, not even their same sport... Because they want people to be on their platform. Having 100k people watch on Youtube does absolutely nothing for the company, the western exposure is meaningless to them as a Korean company, the Korean advertisements do nothing. By forcing you to watch on Afreeca you contribute to the number of viewers on their platform, which is what this is all about. but how forcing foreigners watching it on Afreeca gonna help them? it's still showing Korean adds on Afreeca ...? you use the platform???? how is that even a question jesus lmao. Eh, its sort of a valid question if you think about it. Advertisement middlemen are really smart these days and pay a lot of attention to the demographic of the viewer-base. Targeting ads at the right people is a metric. What's more problematic is that Afreeca can't find a cost effective way to monetize their product to an international audience. Sure it won't bring them any huge returns but completely dismissing that market seems like a huge mistake. I think this whole situation is also due to a language and culture barrier. This is ignoring the cost of providing the service. We would somehow need to generate enough value to pay Tastosis as well as all of the costs that go into providing the cast - camera and audio crew, set construction, make-up, bandwidth, etc. Furthermore, I read during the Gillette-sponsored tournament (I forget which one it was now) that the advertiser is Gillette of Korea, meaning that even if you go to the grocery store and buy a hundred Gillette products, the Korean sponsor doesn't get any return. I imagine this is the situation for most of their advertisers and sponsors. So, what would be the way to generate revenue? I guess there could be a subscription model for international users only, but I find it hard to believe that Afreeca simply made a "mistake" and don't have a team of financial and marketing specialists whose job is precisely determining the viability and profitability of various products and services. There would, of course, be an initial investment into a service of this nature, which in turn would require English-speaking customer service and other longterm expenses. This would also immediately alienate all of the international viewers who can't afford a subscription, who can't use the Afreeca platform consistently, etc. To assume that they didn't consider how to profit from English casts is horribly naive IMO - especially given the fact that Artosis said that him and Tasteless have been trying to negotiate with Afreeca for a while, presumably months. Do you think that Afreeca just waved their proverbial hand at them without considering their arguments (or without having already considered them)? No organization of such size would make a decision to stop a service they already provide arbitrarily. The more I consider the overall situation, the more I get the impression that Afreeca has provided 10 seasons of English entertainment at a loss, and after going over the numbers, decided it wasn't worth it. Not that one day they just up and said, "Hey, let's just make a bunch of English-speaking chobos on the internet upset!" You're taking a pretty narrow view on the matter though. You're assuming that ASL in English can only exist if Artosis and Tasteless are casting it.I beg to differ. Sure it might seem that way given how popular the casters are but in all reality ASL can be brought in English to an international audience at a pretty low cost too. So low that Afreeca might think to themselves: "Huh? Why bother" The "Why bother?" is pretty disturbing if Afreeca considers themselves a competent online streaming platform. We live in the era where sharks live and breathe for the next 'hit'. Imagine that in 2 years SC2 dies and SC1 has some crazy boom and a lot of popular streamers start playing it and the scene takes off. Sure, rather unlikely but there's still a possibility in there. In that case imagine being Afreeca and losing an incredible opportunity to instill yourself as a leading organizer in that space. Pretty huge blunder to make when the cost of just maintaining at least a footprint in the scene could be as cheap as hiring some rando's to cast on some global streaming platform and then take a cut off of the profits, if any. This part I have huge trouble understanding. The part about people being "upset" because they've lost their favorite casting duo for an event is expected and find rather meh, especially in today's age.
Well, they are offering a clean feed, so anyone who wants to cast it for free can do so - while still supporting Afreeca's services. That seems to be a decent compromise for them financially and in terms of providing something to the foreign community?
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EPT
