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Northern Ireland26257 Posts
On March 16 2021 05:01 oxKnu wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2021 04:30 SchAmToo wrote:On March 16 2021 04:18 Jealous wrote:On March 16 2021 03:19 SchAmToo wrote:On March 15 2021 21:53 Jealous wrote:On March 15 2021 17:17 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:
There is a poll on the TL.net homepage and currently 30% say they will stop watching ASL altogether, also 41% say they never watched it in the first place - they are probably SC2 people.So if you didn't vote already check it out.I voted for Korean commentary personally.
Now that there is an alternate English cast with higher level analysis, there really is no excuse. There's still tons of excuse. I love Scan and Nyoken but they're not as entertaining nor will they have as high level production as the original broadcast. Analysis isn't everything. Note: I'll still watch, but to say theres no excuse seems silly to me. If the main problem was the presence of English cast, that problem is solved. If the main problem is that it's anyone but Artosis/Tasteless, that's a problem in and of itself IMO. It should be about the players and the game, the caster is just the translator of the screen into your brain, so to speak. There are of course casters with bad voices or bad knowledge or ones that don't crack as many people-pleasing jokes, ones that are less likely to become cult of personality idols, I get that. But ultimately, it should be about the games and their interpretability for the viewer IMO. In that regard, I expect Scan/Nyoken to bring some of the highest level content we have possibly ever seen as English-speakers. All bells and whistles aside, of course. "It should be" is directly in line with what you want with your content. Many others put "it should be" in front of many different things. I watch korean broadcasts a lot, but the click rate for me of korean only broadcasts is lower because sometimes I like to just turn my brain off a little while watching. It goes back to what I was talking about with that other poster. There's a lot of things that people prefer, the more they are lined up the better. Does english commentary matter if they constantly miss the action while observing? Does it matter if they bring up all the wrong points? What if their mics aren't all that great or horribly balanced? What if the quality of the stream is awful? What if they dont drive a good narrative, have good stats, or only talk about the game in front of them? Do they mention the same opener 80 times in a row, or do they fill the air with some quips and funny things? the more things you check off on this list, the more people will watch. In-depth analysis and timings are great, but great commentators know when to bring in the analysis and when to let peoples brains rest up a little. I'm happy to have english commentary, and i think community casters filling that void is great. but again, if the objective is reaching a broader audience its going to be a lot more than just "It should be about the games" because i bet i could show some previous ASL matches, act like it's CPL, and get 100 comments about "wow these guys sux" The broader audience is the SC2 fanbase and Fortnite fans. So aiming for that kind of thing is a net negative anyways. If you value your brain cells in any kind of way that is.
Alternatively if you know enough about BW that you can follow the Korean commentary, why not have an English cast that’s vaguely accessible?
As Schamtoo points out, a perfect caster to appeal to all audiences is basically an impossibility.
Personally am happy with the Nyoken/Scan combo, the former’s casting I’ve enjoyed when I have experienced it and iirc he’s pretty solid at the game, and Scan is good enough to be playing ASL so should have lots of good insight to offer.
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On March 16 2021 05:01 oxKnu wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2021 04:30 SchAmToo wrote:On March 16 2021 04:18 Jealous wrote:On March 16 2021 03:19 SchAmToo wrote:On March 15 2021 21:53 Jealous wrote:On March 15 2021 17:17 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:
There is a poll on the TL.net homepage and currently 30% say they will stop watching ASL altogether, also 41% say they never watched it in the first place - they are probably SC2 people.So if you didn't vote already check it out.I voted for Korean commentary personally.
Now that there is an alternate English cast with higher level analysis, there really is no excuse. There's still tons of excuse. I love Scan and Nyoken but they're not as entertaining nor will they have as high level production as the original broadcast. Analysis isn't everything. Note: I'll still watch, but to say theres no excuse seems silly to me. If the main problem was the presence of English cast, that problem is solved. If the main problem is that it's anyone but Artosis/Tasteless, that's a problem in and of itself IMO. It should be about the players and the game, the caster is just the translator of the screen into your brain, so to speak. There are of course casters with bad voices or bad knowledge or ones that don't crack as many people-pleasing jokes, ones that are less likely to become cult of personality idols, I get that. But ultimately, it should be about the games and their interpretability for the viewer IMO. In that regard, I expect Scan/Nyoken to bring some of the highest level content we have possibly ever seen as English-speakers. All bells and whistles aside, of course. "It should be" is directly in line with what you want with your content. Many others put "it should be" in front of many different things. I watch korean broadcasts a lot, but the click rate for me of korean only broadcasts is lower because sometimes I like to just turn my brain off a little while watching. It goes back to what I was talking about with that other poster. There's a lot of things that people prefer, the more they are lined up the better. Does english commentary matter if they constantly miss the action while observing? Does it matter if they bring up all the wrong points? What if their mics aren't all that great or horribly balanced? What if the quality of the stream is awful? What if they dont drive a good narrative, have good stats, or only talk about the game in front of them? Do they mention the same opener 80 times in a row, or do they fill the air with some quips and funny things? the more things you check off on this list, the more people will watch. In-depth analysis and timings are great, but great commentators know when to bring in the analysis and when to let peoples brains rest up a little. I'm happy to have english commentary, and i think community casters filling that void is great. but again, if the objective is reaching a broader audience its going to be a lot more than just "It should be about the games" because i bet i could show some previous ASL matches, act like it's CPL, and get 100 comments about "wow these guys sux" The broader audience is the SC2 fanbase and Fortnite fans. So aiming for that kind of thing is a net negative anyways. If you value your brain cells in any kind of way that is.
Everyone is classical music brood war fan, they just don't know it yet. https://www.ted.com/talks/benjamin_zander_the_transformative_power_of_classical_music?language=en
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Ok, I'm happy I will be able to watch ASL in English with a sub optimum pair of casters. I'm enfuriated and sad because Afreeca got rid of the best. And that they are the best is not just my opinion; this is a known fact by the whole community.
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On March 16 2021 05:26 Zekkezgz wrote:
Ok, I'm happy I will be able to watch ASL in English with a sub optimum pair of casters. I'm enfuriated and sad because Afreeca got rid of the best. And that they are the best is not just my opinion; this is a known fact by the whole community.
Very bold claims.
 )))
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On March 16 2021 05:26 Zekkezgz wrote:
Ok, I'm happy I will be able to watch ASL in English with a sub optimum pair of casters. I'm enfuriated and sad because Afreeca got rid of the best. And that they are the best is not just my opinion; this is a known fact by the whole community.
Takes one person to disagree to make that "fact" false. And I am bold enough to say I disagree in the face of this thread filled with utterly fanatic tastosis fans.
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On March 16 2021 05:26 Zekkezgz wrote:
Ok, I'm happy I will be able to watch ASL in English with a sub optimum pair of casters. I'm enfuriated and sad because Afreeca got rid of the best. And that they are the best is not just my opinion; this is a known fact by the whole community.
You're a fucking moron and I hope no one else takes this bait.
PS: Schamtoo I will respond to you when I have more time than to write a single line
User was warned for this post.
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You're a fucking moron and I hope no one else takes this bait.
Thank you for insult and bad mannered response.
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On March 16 2021 06:34 oxKnu wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2021 05:26 Zekkezgz wrote:
Ok, I'm happy I will be able to watch ASL in English with a sub optimum pair of casters. I'm enfuriated and sad because Afreeca got rid of the best. And that they are the best is not just my opinion; this is a known fact by the whole community.
Very bold claims. )))
Yeah, but... Ok. The two best casters of SC. Give me their names. As a team, and as what they have done for the community.
What ever, I have just been called a fucking moron for thinking they, as a couple, are the best.
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On March 16 2021 09:14 Zekkezgz wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2021 06:34 oxKnu wrote:On March 16 2021 05:26 Zekkezgz wrote:
Ok, I'm happy I will be able to watch ASL in English with a sub optimum pair of casters. I'm enfuriated and sad because Afreeca got rid of the best. And that they are the best is not just my opinion; this is a known fact by the whole community.
Very bold claims. ))) Yeah, but... Ok. The two best casters of SC. Give me their names. As a team, and as what they have done for the community. What ever, I have just been called a fucking moron for thinking they, as a couple, are the best.
You were called a moron for thinking that your opinion is fact.
How about Kim Carrier? TheMarine? Etc.
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Northern Ireland26257 Posts
The best, perhaps to some.
Most popular I don’t think anyone can really argue against Tastosis.
But give this duo a chance man. Can’t remember when it was or for what but I first got exposed to Nyoken when he was casting with Artosis, checked out a bunch of him subsequently. I’m familiar with Scan more because he posts here but he’s done some insightful (and amusing) coaching sessions, again with that Artosis fellow.
Not that it should matter really, but I highly, highly doubt that Artosis is sitting there thinking ‘it’s not me so screw the ASL I hope my fans don’t watch’
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On March 16 2021 09:30 WombaT wrote:
The best, perhaps to some.
Most popular I don’t think anyone can really argue against Tastosis.
But give this duo a chance man. Can’t remember when it was or for what but I first got exposed to Nyoken when he was casting with Artosis, checked out a bunch of him subsequently. I’m familiar with Scan more because he posts here but he’s done some insightful (and amusing) coaching sessions, again with that Artosis fellow.
Not that it should matter really, but I highly, highly doubt that Artosis is sitting there thinking ‘it’s not me so screw the ASL I hope my fans don’t watch’
Most popular would still be MBC/OGN casters because they were literally on TV and in front of thousands of people live in some of the biggest eSports events in the 00s.
Most popular English casters? Probably. "Best"? Please.
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On March 16 2021 09:29 Jealous wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2021 09:14 Zekkezgz wrote:On March 16 2021 06:34 oxKnu wrote:On March 16 2021 05:26 Zekkezgz wrote:
Ok, I'm happy I will be able to watch ASL in English with a sub optimum pair of casters. I'm enfuriated and sad because Afreeca got rid of the best. And that they are the best is not just my opinion; this is a known fact by the whole community.
Very bold claims. ))) Yeah, but... Ok. The two best casters of SC. Give me their names. As a team, and as what they have done for the community. What ever, I have just been called a fucking moron for thinking they, as a couple, are the best. You were called a moron for thinking that your opinion is fact. How about Kim Carrier? TheMarine? Etc.
Do they cast together? Are they considered by the vast majority as the best SCBW casters? Given the choice of them over Tastosis, who would the majority choose?
Anyway. Your insult still stands. You can continue calling morons to those who don't think as yourself...
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On March 16 2021 10:29 Zekkezgz wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2021 09:29 Jealous wrote:On March 16 2021 09:14 Zekkezgz wrote:On March 16 2021 06:34 oxKnu wrote:On March 16 2021 05:26 Zekkezgz wrote:
Ok, I'm happy I will be able to watch ASL in English with a sub optimum pair of casters. I'm enfuriated and sad because Afreeca got rid of the best. And that they are the best is not just my opinion; this is a known fact by the whole community.
Very bold claims. ))) Yeah, but... Ok. The two best casters of SC. Give me their names. As a team, and as what they have done for the community. What ever, I have just been called a fucking moron for thinking they, as a couple, are the best. You were called a moron for thinking that your opinion is fact. How about Kim Carrier? TheMarine? Etc. Do they cast together? Are they considered by the vast majority as the best SCBW casters? Given the choice of them over Tastosis, who would the majority choose? Anyway. Your insult still stands. You can continue calling morons to those who don't think as yourself...
They (or others like them from the professional KeSPA MBC/OGN era) are most likely popularly viewed as the best since they are Korean casters for the Korean demographic which makes up the vast majority of BW viewership throughout its entire history. English casting and its audience is barely a sliver of the BW population whole. You do realize this, right? Maybe if you specified "Most popular English casters for Brood War in the late- and post-KeSPA era" then I wouldn't have any room for argument, but your initial statement is incredibly myopic at best.
Yes my insult still stands. I will continue to call people morons who present their opinion, as limited in understanding as it appears to be, as fact. You simply know nothing about anything. You wanted to come into this thread and try to present something as fact when the reality is that is just how you feel on the basis of subjective criteria which are completely ignorant of the history of BW. But you don't care. Sorry that I hurt your feelings by presenting the obvious truth, namely that your fallacious appeal to popularity was fallacious even by definition.
Not sorry.
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On March 16 2021 06:52 Jealous wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2021 05:26 Zekkezgz wrote:
Ok, I'm happy I will be able to watch ASL in English with a sub optimum pair of casters. I'm enfuriated and sad because Afreeca got rid of the best. And that they are the best is not just my opinion; this is a known fact by the whole community.
You're a fucking moron and I hope no one else takes this bait. PS: Schamtoo I will respond to you when I have more time than to write a single line
That bold and underlined part really was unnecessary. I can see his point if he really liked the Tastosis duet.
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On March 16 2021 11:19 Optimate wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2021 06:52 Jealous wrote:On March 16 2021 05:26 Zekkezgz wrote:
Ok, I'm happy I will be able to watch ASL in English with a sub optimum pair of casters. I'm enfuriated and sad because Afreeca got rid of the best. And that they are the best is not just my opinion; this is a known fact by the whole community.
You're a fucking moron and I hope no one else takes this bait. PS: Schamtoo I will respond to you when I have more time than to write a single line That bold and underlined part really was unnecessary. I can see his point if he really liked the Tastosis duet.
Yet again you defend that which has no defense.
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On March 16 2021 06:40 Dangermousecatdog wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2021 05:26 Zekkezgz wrote:
Ok, I'm happy I will be able to watch ASL in English with a sub optimum pair of casters. I'm enfuriated and sad because Afreeca got rid of the best. And that they are the best is not just my opinion; this is a known fact by the whole community.
Takes one person to disagree to make that "fact" false. And I am bold enough to say I disagree in the face of this thread filled with utterly fanatic tastosis fans.
I agree that the ones blaming Afreeca are in the wrong, but that's what happens when people are upset and have a lack of knowledge of the situation. You and Jealous don't have to go overboard with the insults just because some of them are perhaps not thinking through what they are writing? Doesn't mean they are worthless. Maybe it means they need some guiding and what better people to guide them than honourable and experienced members as yourself?
We should be happy about anyone showing interest in this game, considering the status of things. That tastosis have brought so many new people to BW is great AND is a testament to their skills as commentators.
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United Kingdom12025 Posts
People going on about how Tastosis are the most popular - of course they're the most popular, they're essentially the only major BW casters that exist and they're the only ones who have ever really been given a chance in the community in the big leagues since they're the only ones living in Korea and have done for a very long time.
People need to give other casters a chance, because at the end of the day there's lots of community casters and none of them are ever going to get any better if you don't even give them the chance to try.
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I agree Qikz that part of what makes tastosis popular is their celebrity status within e-sports. Popularity breeds more popularity. Part of that has to do with the very human need of wanting to take part in events that you are sharing with as big of group of others as possible.
But it has to be said that part of what makes tastosis popular is their abilities as commentators. Tastosis has a very personal way of commentating. They are themselves, you are getting the real thing and not just some rehearsed version of what a commentator is supposed to be. You feel like you are hanging out with some cool, funny and smart friends watching their stream. Of course, they are (most likely) not your actual friends, but it's still a good feeling and there is nothing wrong with that.
I agree that there are plenty of good community casters as well and i have earlier in this thread tried to shine a light on the foreign run events. At the end of the day, tastosis have brought a lot of people into BW. That means also to the benefit of foreigner leagues. However, what is going to really keep them watching BSL, RCG, STPL etc. are people like yourself Qikz. So i want to sincerely thank you for your great work.
Having said that, Artosis has now started a foreigner run event himself in The Ascension tournament, coming up this weekend. It's for NA only, but he has stated that he wants to run and cast leagues for europeans as well if lag issues is resolved. He also said just the other day that BW will be around...as long as he is alive. He said that with a bit of a tongue in cheek, given that the statement implies that he overestimates his own importance (which the guy actually can fall victim to given his huge confidence lol, however he usually balances it with a refreshingly sene of self-awareness as well).
My point is, BW is Artosis' biggest passion and it seems he want to do what it takes to not leave the scene or game behind. That is good news for all of us that he wants to focus more on the foreign scene. It brings more attention to the foreign players and more viewers to the aforementioned foreign leagues.
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Northern Ireland26257 Posts
On March 16 2021 10:28 Jealous wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2021 09:30 WombaT wrote:
The best, perhaps to some.
Most popular I don’t think anyone can really argue against Tastosis.
But give this duo a chance man. Can’t remember when it was or for what but I first got exposed to Nyoken when he was casting with Artosis, checked out a bunch of him subsequently. I’m familiar with Scan more because he posts here but he’s done some insightful (and amusing) coaching sessions, again with that Artosis fellow.
Not that it should matter really, but I highly, highly doubt that Artosis is sitting there thinking ‘it’s not me so screw the ASL I hope my fans don’t watch’
Most popular would still be MBC/OGN casters because they were literally on TV and in front of thousands of people live in some of the biggest eSports events in the 00s. Most popular English casters? Probably. "Best"? Please.
Yes, I thought it was implicit I was talking about English casters in a thread about an English cast for it.
No doubt there’s beloved casters in English in other competitive games that are huge these days too.
Tastosis do have a reasonably rare brand power that they can drag their fans to watch other games just because they’re casting, although I’m increasingly skeptical to how useful this is.
Smoothening the SC2 to BW pipeline is all well and good but if people don’t stick around and only engage with the existing community to complain that Tastosis aren’t casting you aren’t getting much of a boost there.
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On March 16 2021 10:29 Zekkezgz wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2021 09:29 Jealous wrote:On March 16 2021 09:14 Zekkezgz wrote:On March 16 2021 06:34 oxKnu wrote:On March 16 2021 05:26 Zekkezgz wrote:
Ok, I'm happy I will be able to watch ASL in English with a sub optimum pair of casters. I'm enfuriated and sad because Afreeca got rid of the best. And that they are the best is not just my opinion; this is a known fact by the whole community.
Very bold claims. ))) Yeah, but... Ok. The two best casters of SC. Give me their names. As a team, and as what they have done for the community. What ever, I have just been called a fucking moron for thinking they, as a couple, are the best. You were called a moron for thinking that your opinion is fact. How about Kim Carrier? TheMarine? Etc. Do they cast together? Are they considered by the vast majority as the best SCBW casters? Given the choice of them over Tastosis, who would the majority choose? Anyway. Your insult still stands. You can continue calling morons to those who don't think as yourself...
Lol you can always watch whatever they cast. I quess vast majority should do that as well. And maybe you the "vast majority" should do something about it, as it stands one korean pulled of a huge effort to get us English casting while this forum is flooded with single digit posters crying "boohoo, bad Afreeca ruining MY MY MY bw show".
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EPT
