EPT+ Show Spoiler +
Bisu 
S: EffOrt, Last
S-: Rain
A+: Mini
A: Shuttle, Soulkey, Sharp
A-: Action, Snow, Jaedong
B: MIsO, Light, Mind, BeSt
BW Power Rank: November 2018 - Page 4
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Piste
6165 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + S: EffOrt, Last S-: Rain A+: Mini A: Shuttle, Soulkey, Sharp A-: Action, Snow, Jaedong B: MIsO, Light, Mind, BeSt | ||
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iopq
United States835 Posts
If you look at fantasy rankings every week, yes, Todd Gurley is #1 every week. So what? He's just that good. Does he get the most fantasy points every week? No, often he's not the top scorer. But he consistently scores high. But there's still movement and disagreement on who's #2 for the rest of the season or next week. Similarly, Larva moved up to maybe even be #2 player in the world for a moment and promptly sank to like #15. We really need to have StarCraft fantasy leagues with money on the line. Then people's ratings can really be tested. It's not a real rating until you bet on it. People really change their behavior if they have something to lose. | ||
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MarcoJ
Germany146 Posts
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Qikz
United Kingdom12022 Posts
On November 08 2018 06:09 razorsuKe wrote: ![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/R2fjNvh.jpg) This is basically the best post on TL this year I think. Bravo haha. | ||
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Mongery
892 Posts
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FlaShFTW
United States10015 Posts
On November 08 2018 18:58 iopq wrote: Effort underperformed until he didn't. Too much movement is also not ideal, since it's just "who won games this month" If you look at fantasy rankings every week, yes, Todd Gurley is #1 every week. So what? He's just that good. Does he get the most fantasy points every week? No, often he's not the top scorer. But he consistently scores high. But there's still movement and disagreement on who's #2 for the rest of the season or next week. Similarly, Larva moved up to maybe even be #2 player in the world for a moment and promptly sank to like #15. We really need to have StarCraft fantasy leagues with money on the line. Then people's ratings can really be tested. It's not a real rating until you bet on it. People really change their behavior if they have something to lose. Yes, but how do you know when EffOrt is underperforming or he's actually just bad? Like that was the question for the longest time. Was it just a one-time choke? Was it just a two-time choke? How do you know when it's not a choke anymore and it's just someone who's actually fallen off. Like Stork for example? Is Stork just choking? Or is he just that bad now? How do you make those distinctions. I agree too much movement is not ideal which is why I have also adjusted my formula for ranking over time, someone like Jaedong, for my personal PR this month, might have kept his spot when he was 7th last PR (7/8? I don't remember). I think if people take liquibets seriously it makes for some decent indicators of who's actually predicting the right matches. And obviously some people will be a bit higher based upon some of their sick underdog predictions but otherwise, I think I do a pretty good job with a 77% prediction rate. Not perfect or even close to that by any means, but it's enough to get me to #61 on the PR, and generally that's where I've been most liquibet seasons, even as high as the top 10 two seasons ago. (I think?) | ||
BigFan
TLADT24920 Posts
On November 08 2018 06:09 razorsuKe wrote: I think we got our December PR already!  | ||
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Yanokabo
268 Posts
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iFU.pauline
France1408 Posts
On November 09 2018 04:00 FlaShFTW wrote: Yes, but how do you know when EffOrt is underperforming or he's actually just bad? Like that was the question for the longest time. Was it just a one-time choke? Was it just a two-time choke? How do you know when it's not a choke anymore and it's just someone who's actually fallen off. By watching his stream you !@#$ Stork is gone, EffOrt was out playing ums... | ||
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FlaShFTW
United States10015 Posts
On November 09 2018 06:21 iFU.pauline wrote: By watching his stream you !@#$ Stork is gone, EffOrt was out playing ums... so your justification of effort merely choking and not underperforming was... his ums games... what? | ||
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Letmelose
Korea (South)3227 Posts
On November 09 2018 06:21 iFU.pauline wrote: By watching his stream you !@#$ Stork is gone, EffOrt was out playing ums... The point of this forum is to educate and inform if you actually have insight to share. Not spam the same useless argument over and over again everytime you become upset. EffOrt may have not been the best performing zerg player in LAN tournaments in 2017, but he probably had the best results in online sponsored matches (in non-mirror match-ups at least, he wasn't that fantastic at the zerg-versus-zerg match-up even online, which came back to haunt him in multiple seasons of the ASL). I at leaast have some first hand experience, because I was paying for some of the games you watched, while you masturbated about how awesome you are for how much you watch games others are paying for you. EffOrt was the third ranked player behind Flash and Last in online sponsored matches as of December 2017 (ELO points based on online sponsored matches that took place since May 2017, when the site begins to record everything), with a very respectable head-to-head record versus Flash, which was one of the main points of argument for his skill even if he wasn't dominant in the mirror match-up, or could post LAN results that mirrored his form online. With the rise of the 1-1-1 strategy, EffOrt started to tilt himself off the face of the planet, dropping to 20th rank by February 2018 in terms of online sponsored matches he was previously famed for. Much of this was due to EffOrt being completely incapable of handling Flash in particular, a foe he matched the best out of the zergs previously, as represented by his 4-46 (11.5% win rate) record against him specifically (from December 2017 to February 2018). From having the best head-to-head record versus Flash out of all the zerg players from May 2017 to November 2017, EffOrt lagged behind the meta-game while players such as herO (who spearheaded the build order revamp from the zerg camp) and Soulkey (the methodical decision making genius) had vastly superior results and initial build order redesign compared to EffOrt. This was the lowest point for EffOrt, because not only did he lack ASL results for years on end, but he lost his famed online form to a build that he initially had no idea how to counter. Do you think he figured all this shit out by himself? Are you just going to ignore any time period that EffOrt lacks results in by posting excuses and emotional outbursts, rather than trying to examine what actually happened? EffOrt's resurgence to form is a welcome addition to this scene, he indeed is a unique talent separate from his results, but you either simplifying EffOrt's narrative to EffOrt being good until he wants to be, or are blatantly avoiding posting details despite claiming to watch his stream more than anybody on this forum. What good is your knowledge if you are incapable of articulating even the most basic storyline that everybody who speaks Korean and follows Brood War knows? You're like the kid who thinks school grades only counts until you yourself became motivated enough to study. Excuses of what grades you could have potentially achieved ultimately doesn't matter, because the reality is you didn't study, and you failed. Yes, results aren't everything, but you know what? They are universal. The depths to which you go to make excuses for EffOrt aren't being replicated for every player on the planet, because you don't give two shits about making personal excuses about those players. I go about making result based analysis, because it doesn't matter who I prefer or watch more, because results are gained objectively. The kind of knowledge you get from knowing results, watching someone all the time, and playing someone all the time are all different. The problem is, you cannot play everyone, you cannot watch everyone, but you can know all their results. So opinionated insight only becomes safe from bias after you learn to appreciate all the nuances of the results. Then again, you seem to relish in bias, so feel free to continue what you and your ilk always do, this post was more about relaying information to people who can actually think and articulate topics on hand anyways. | ||
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BigFan
TLADT24920 Posts
On November 09 2018 06:33 FlaShFTW wrote: so your justification of effort merely choking and not underperforming was... his ums games... what? It's likely that EffOrt got sick of losing against Flash so much, and gravitated towards ums games to take a break. His performance offline has been abysmal for a so called S rank player since his VANT win until this latest ASL win. | ||
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whaski
Finland576 Posts
On November 09 2018 10:50 BigFan wrote: It's likely that EffOrt got sick of losing against Flash so much, and gravitated towards ums games to take a break. His performance offline has been abysmal for a so called S rank player since his VANT win until this latest ASL win. No way. Effort was doing very well 2016-2017. He started falling after Flash crushed him with 1-1-1. | ||
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BigFan
TLADT24920 Posts
On November 09 2018 12:16 whaski wrote: No way. Effort was doing very well 2016-2017. He started falling after Flash crushed him with 1-1-1. Sorry mate, but you're mistaken. These are his standings in ASL. Keep in mind that ASL1 started with the Ro16 so he didn't even make it a step further. He's lost to everything and everyone: ASL1 Ro16 last place exit (tied with free) ASL2 Ro24 second last place exit ASL3 Ro16 second last place exit ASL4 Ro16 second last place exit ASL5 Ro16 second last place exit I'm sure someone will say he beat Flash in that Seoul Cup. Well, ok? I mean, the whole invitational only had 4 players in it lol. SSL Classic which he also won had TBLS declining to play, and some other players due to it being done by fan voting, aka no open qualifiers. Add on the fact that there were only 8 players, so that casts that tournament's result more into doubt. What else did he win? Maybe some online tournaments? Only thing I see is a second place finish in Terror Starleague which took place before ASL1. Is he a good player? sure. Is he an S-rank player? He certainly can be at times. Does he have great sponmatch results? Sure. Did he have a great time after winning VANT? Based off results, I would say no, not really. He had a lot of expectations, and he's failed to achieve them offline (and it doesn't seem like he did much online). He's been beaten by almost everyone out there, even before the 1-1-1 came into place. I can make a list if anyone is interested, but LP is a click away. It's only with this latest ASL win that he's back on track, and there is a chance that he'll fall off again when the next ASL comes around considering his inconsistency, but who knows. Edit: Shuttle, sSak, Rain, Light, Soulkey, Bisu, Larva, hero is a list of players who eliminated EffOrt in ASL. Keep in mind that Shuttle and Larva eliminated him twice so didn't bother repeating their names. | ||
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whaski
Finland576 Posts
On November 09 2018 14:37 BigFan wrote: Sorry mate, but you're mistaken. These are his standings in ASL. Keep in mind that ASL1 started with the Ro16 so he didn't even make it a step further. He's lost to everything and everyone: ASL1 Ro16 last place exit (tied with free) ASL2 Ro24 second last place exit ASL3 Ro16 second last place exit ASL4 Ro16 second last place exit ASL5 Ro16 second last place exit I'm sure someone will say he beat Flash in that Seoul Cup. Well, ok? I mean, the whole invitational only had 4 players in it lol. SSL Classic which he also won had TBLS declining to play, and some other players due to it being done by fan voting, aka no open qualifiers. Add on the fact that there were only 8 players, so that casts that tournament's result more into doubt. What else did he win? Maybe some online tournaments? Only thing I see is a second place finish in Terror Starleague which took place before ASL1. Is he a good player? sure. Is he an S-rank player? He certainly can be at times. Does he have great sponmatch results? Sure. Did he have a great time after winning VANT? Based off results, I would say no, not really. He had a lot of expectations, and he's failed to achieve them offline (and it doesn't seem like he did much online). He's been beaten by almost everyone out there, even before the 1-1-1 came into place. I can make a list if anyone is interested, but LP is a click away. It's only with this latest ASL win that he's back on track, and there is a chance that he'll fall off again when the next ASL comes around considering his inconsistency, but who knows. Edit: Shuttle, sSak, Rain, Light, Soulkey, Bisu, Larva, hero is a list of players who eliminated EffOrt in ASL. Keep in mind that Shuttle and Larva eliminated him twice so didn't bother repeating their names. Ah, sorry I misread offline part as online. And regarding Efforts ASL results you are absolutely right. | ||
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[sc1f]eonzerg
Belgium6498 Posts
all i see are mentions from playrrs that are not winning championships.what do u wanna prove Flash is best? everyone knows that.effort last in the rank mid or top.doesnt matter.the funny part is that most of you arguing are so bad playing starcraft,im curious why with such knowledge.but is all love and fun <3 | ||
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Zaibakk
101 Posts
On November 08 2018 06:09 razorsuKe wrote: That was so fun to read ahah! :D | ||
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iFU.pauline
France1408 Posts
On November 09 2018 06:33 FlaShFTW wrote: so your justification of effort merely choking and not underperforming was... his ums games... what? I thought this was pretty explicit, he was playing more ums than actually training, but that is taken in account you watched his stream which you obviously didn't. | ||
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FlaShFTW
United States10015 Posts
On November 09 2018 21:33 iFU.pauline wrote: I thought this was pretty explicit, he was playing more ums than actually training, but that is taken in account you watched his stream which you obviously didn't. Go reply to LetmeLose’s post first, then I’ll start acknowledging what you have to say.  | ||
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