This month's power rank is brought to you by Ty2 and his feelings. These rankings mostly weigh on the players' ASL6 results, and if applicable, their current performance in KSL2.
#1: EffOrt
Effort's performance in the ASL to say the least has been nothing short of exceptional. After breaking his infamous ro16 curse, he was only beginning his march into the battlefield. His first obstacle, Rain, became a stepping stone, defeated 3-1. Then, he was faced by Last, another shining star on the rise hot off of his KSL1 win. In an incredibly close series, Last was the first to burn out as Effort progressed to the final boss. Confronted by his greatest hurdle yet, Effort against all odds denied Flash from claiming his fourth ASL gold to become, if just for a moment, the best player in the ex-pro scene.
Finally, after a long recession from the spotlight, Effort gave one of the most memorable runs to date. His victory is a reminder that the flame of competition may falter, but is never extinguished in StarCraft's long running legacy. In the fierce finals, his mechanics, multitasking, and grizzled competitive spirit shone through to cement himself as one of the best in the annals of StarCraft history. For that, I give him the top spot in the November PR.
#2: FlaSh
Flash reigns, unusually, just short of supreme, recently sporting two clean 3-0's: first against Mini, and then Shuttle, but falling to Effort 2-3. Regardless of the momentous loss, Flash is still undoubtedly the best in terms of mechanics. He won't be relevant for all of November unfortunately due to not participating in KSL, but he still holds a top place as #1 in the online sponsored game rankings.
While his grip on the scene may be loosened, there's still a weight carried by the nickname, God. In that same vein, we can expect Flash to shoot for another championship as the favorite. As always, he'll continue to be the barsetter that other pros will still struggle to reach. His presence as is may be taken for granted like many others, his days numbered by his plans for the military and wrist surgery. Even if he leaves, he'll always hold a special place as one of the most remarkable to have touched the game.
#3: Rain
Much doubt has plagued Rain's standing as a top Protoss as of late since winning ASL 5. He tasted bitter defeat twice by the hands of Zergs in bo5's, first to Jaedong in KSL1, and then to Effort in ASL6. In addition, his PvZ style described as akin to Bisu's falls short in his live performances. They are marked by timidity and lack of the crucical marginal advantages that are blown wide open by Bisu's trademark aggression.
Still, despite his PvZ pitfalls, he's shown his capability in other matchups, notably PvT, displaying his solid mechanics. He's also a shoe-in to advance from his KSL 2 group, already up 1-0 in his group after beating Light. In contrast to the competitive lull, Rain still has the potential to make deeper runs into tournaments as the best Protoss the scene has to offer. Most recently, he beat Last in a flawless 3-1 in the KSL vs. ASL showmatch.
#4: Last
Last up until a week ago was looking to reach his second finals before falling against Effort. A grand performance, his extensive preparation and sharpened form were indicative of his grizzled fighting spirit. However, he still came short of the mentality of a champion, cracking under the pressure of Effort's stealthy aggression and unorthodox plays. Still, his unparalleled mechanics are unquestionable, one-sidedly dispatching Sharp and, recently, Shuttle, 3-0.
Even after his ASL run being cut short, we still have his KSL run to look forward to where he's beaten JyJ 3-0 already. How far will he go? I think Last's momentum and mentality have taken a hit since the ASL knock-out, and his recent 1-3 vs. Rain can't help matters anymore. If he ends up meeting Rain again in the KSL, we could see a swift end to the rise of Last.
#5: Shuttle
Love him or hate him, everyone loves a good underdog. That's the tune that Shuttle has been playing to in some of the most scrappy games of the ASL. True to his straightforward style, he's a boxer who only believes in the straight punch. With that punch, he knocked out top players Snow, Soulkey, and Action, before falling to Flash 0-3. Faced time and time again versus insurmountable opponents, Shuttle eked out every advantage he could get to defy expectations versus his nerve wracked competition.
Conversely, striking doubt is his disastrous 3rd place match vs. Last, cementing that his mechanics have little place in the world of the elite. He may not be the most stylistic, the most flashy, or even the most creative. In spite of that, Shuttle showed the world that neither himself nor his straight up macro style are too outdated in today's world of ex-pros. Tirelessly, he readies his stance, and prepares his next strike. Now that's the spirit of a competitor if I've ever seen one.
#6: Soulkey
Soulkey was noticeably downcast and losing steam as the next premiere Zerg after a long string of early tour exits. That may change as he's finally, but just barely, regained his footing in his recent 3-2 vs. Mini in KSL2. The series was imperfect, marred by some deflating games, but was redeemed by longer games that showcased Soulkey's strategic ability. Furthermore, Soulkey remains the top Zerg in sponsored games. When he can finally let his full ability come out to shine I believe is just a matter of time and KSL2 may be his stage.
#7: Action
Action has always been a man of whimsy, showing a penchant for crafty builds and a formidable macro game in equal magnitude. However, he outwhimsied even himself, shown in his games vs. Shuttle. One daring build too many spun out of pure imagination and wonder cost Action dearly. Conversely, many of his strengths lie in his superb macromanagement which he hasn't showcased often on the live stage. Hopefully he'll strike a balance between crafty and macro and resist the temptation of being another bag of builds. The future may have a lot in store for him, but he needs to prevent himself from flying off into the sun first.
#8: Sharp
I rank Sharp based on his notably improved performance in recent months and streak of minor upsets. He's proved himself as one of the best TvT'ers, third to Last and Flash. His steady improvement is what's most impressive. Just before he was another fleeting Terran, his only achievement his 2nd place finish all the way back to ASL2. Now he's shown incredibly tight games, a better mentality for competition, and an only increasing skill level.
That said, I can't ignore that he did get manner hatched by Larva in the final game of his 2-3 in KSL2. But that shouldn't be the story to Sharp even if that moment is the most memorable. Sharp is one of the most steadily improving and well versed in the 3 matchups. He has one of the best TvTs, a great TvP, and a TvZ that's recovering from its Achille's Heel, showing great promise overall. Just recently in the semifinals of the KCM race wars, he prevented a reverse all-killing Best in a dominant game. And you just can't ignore how good-looking Sharp is after losing all of that weight.
#9: Mini
Mini's standing took a fall after his heart-plummeting 0-3 vs. Flash. In a disheartened three straight games, numerous misplays and errs in decision making were given room to grow from Mini's spiralling mentality playing against the best Terran. His game 2 throw in particular was particularly grim to watch. We saw just about the worst of everything about Mini's polarizing mentality in that series.
He didn't improve his track record either in his series vs.Soulkey where he floundered in some over-ambitious strategies. Hopefully he can again show his great decision making and unit control he displayed in the prior month versus Last in the 2 factory game and Shine's lurker base trade.
#10: Light
Light, an unsung hero amidst the deep talent pool of ex-pros goes largely ignored due to his poor offline results. Yet, he is one of the scene's most profound examples of great mechanics and is one of the most improved in recent times. Almost overnight, Light regained his defining form of his KeSpa days, wielding impressive macro that weeks before would've easily faltered to Larva. Now, he is closer to joining the ranks of Last and Flash as a Zerg slayer, and formidable enemy of the Protoss.
He consistently holds the top five in the sponsored rankings, but for all of his skill, he lacks the accolades to match. During this height of improvement, he's been defeated by fearsome opponents Jaedong, Flash, and most recently in KSL 2, Rain. Like a Last pre-KSL1, he lacks the competitive aptitude for an offline series, but he stands as the most promising of the ex-pros to make a splash.
-- Close But No Cigar (CBNC) ---
Jaedong: Due to being knocked out of ASL 6 and not participating in KSL 2, Jaedong is little relevant this month. He's a great player by all measure, but we won't be seeing a peep out of him, except maybe the onine KCM Zerg vs. Terran finals.
Larva: He opted out of both ASL6 and failed to qualify for KSL1, so there's little recent history of him outside of what few games he's played in sponsored games. I still hope to see him make waves in KSL2, but his thin tourney participation and fading presence in the scene prevents him from making the top 10.
On November 06 2018 04:12 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote: opened this thread, saw effort#1 dont even need to finish the whole thing to say this is very well done,thanks boys !
On November 06 2018 04:12 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote: opened this thread, saw effort#1 dont even need to finish the whole thing to say this is very well done,thanks boys !
On November 06 2018 04:56 Epoxide wrote: No +/- position changes ?
I skipped this PR as I was busy at blizzcon and had other stuff on my plate. Maybe that's why they didnt include them because someone else entirely was making the PR so it didn't make sense to do trajectories when the grading formula is going to be different from person to person. that being said, when I take December again, I'll probably include this.
Is this one of those sci-fi alternate timelines where FlaSh isn't #1?
Jokes aside, great write-up! The ASL finals were some of the best to ever grace this game (at least in the post-KesPa era), and EffOrt definitely deserves to be in the spotlight for being a literal God-killer.
With the Last vs Rain situation, I think it will be much closer if they meet in the KSL, since it was a foreign tournament and Rain arguably has much more experience in international tourneys than Last.
On November 06 2018 06:40 oxKnu wrote: TL and recency bias, name a more iconic duo.
PR readers and not understanding the purpose of a PR, name a more iconic duo.
PR readers and writing a low quality comment like yours and not giving constructive feedback, name a more iconic duo.
Should I keep going? Actually contribute to the PR. Tell us why it's bad. "Recency bias" is the new buzzword now. It doesn't mean anything. Who is inflated by recency bias? Who is deflated by recency bias?
On November 06 2018 06:38 Yanokabo wrote: Absolutely ridiculous these players are ignoring 50% of the available work for them. I’m appalled!!
Some players just aren't interested sometimes. Some are too tired/stressed out. It's sad taht some players arent able to keep up with the increasing tournaments and more rigorous schedules, but times are changing. This isn't the days where every player was able to commit themselves to MSL/OSL/SPL all at once.
But when there’s almost 30 gs on the line for first place? It’s fair to say the interest and spirit for these tournaments could be higher. Yet many players not named flash Jaedong or effort may not feel they have any chance at first place, so they give up hope before it even gets going.
On November 06 2018 06:40 oxKnu wrote: TL and recency bias, name a more iconic duo.
PR readers and not understanding the purpose of a PR, name a more iconic duo.
PR readers and writing a low quality comment like yours and not giving constructive feedback, name a more iconic duo.
Should I keep going? Actually contribute to the PR. Tell us why it's bad. "Recency bias" is the new buzzword now. It doesn't mean anything. Who is inflated by recency bias? Who is deflated by recency bias?
On November 06 2018 06:38 Yanokabo wrote: Absolutely ridiculous these players are ignoring 50% of the available work for them. I’m appalled!!
Some players just aren't interested sometimes. Some are too tired/stressed out. It's sad taht some players arent able to keep up with the increasing tournaments and more rigorous schedules, but times are changing. This isn't the days where every player was able to commit themselves to MSL/OSL/SPL all at once.
Not as much money/prestige/women on the line nowadays, health comes first.
Shuttle is too high ): Honestly though, after the last power ranking, I've lost the will to complain about these. Well I'll say one more thing - was JD really left out because he wont be playing in a LAN this month? Isn't that the kind of thing that might impact next month's power ranking?
If you want to know why I think that Shuttle is too high: just look at his results - a solid group stage performance, and then barely getting past Action, who was not a true top 8 calibre player (though he had some exciting games including the Shuttle series). His match against Flash was really bad and his match against Last was more of the same. His results don't speak as a top 5 player - better to have Soulkey or JD there.
Rain vs. Last is a tough call because Last got 3rd place in ASL6 whereas Rain won KSL vs. ASL showmatch which appears to have no prize money. In KSL2 Rain won his group 3-1 while Last won 3-0. Also based on sponsored matches in 2018.10-2018.11 Last has an Elo rank of 1308 whereas Rain has 1217.
I think rain is superior to last but it’s a close call. Jaedong isn’t even playing Starcraft right now and this is a Starcraft ranks shuttle sucks but who else deserves 5. Nobody else deserves 5 this list should just be 5 people long and leave out 6-10 the shallowness of the scene is daunting now.
Rain really bitched last at blizzcon so if it had gone differently yeah u could make the argument last>rain but after a h2h series it’s kind of clear. Lasts best matchup is tvz and rains is tvp so u can make that excuse for last if you want but I don’t buy it. All last is known for is beating a sleeping dong last ksl.
On November 06 2018 10:06 hiro protagonist wrote: Eh, just my opinion, but I'd put Last above Rain. Rain's win at bilzzcon is undermined by the fact sparkle was a map they played on.
Other than that meeting, Last has performed more consistent than rain.
On November 06 2018 10:06 hiro protagonist wrote: Eh, just my opinion, but I'd put Last above Rain. Rain's win at bilzzcon is undermined by the fact sparkle was a map they played on.
Other than that meeting, Last has performed more consistent than rain.
On November 06 2018 10:17 Lazare1969 wrote: Rain vs. Last is a tough call because Last got 3rd place in ASL6 whereas Rain won KSL vs. ASL showmatch which appears to have no prize money. In KSL2 Rain won his group 3-1 while Last won 3-0. Also based on sponsored matches in 2018.10-2018.11 Last has an Elo rank of 1308 whereas Rain has 1217.
Holy shit if you look at sorted by total winrate (I know Elo is better since it factors in opponents), the best Protoss that month is Rain at number 17 with a 55% winrate... damn
I would've put Last over Rain. Third world and Sparkle are very strong protoss maps. Especially Sparkle, which in my opinion should be renamed to 'lol protoss wins'.
Other than that I agree with the rankings. EffOrt is number one so Eon doesn't have to go toxic in this thread. Thank God for that.
On November 06 2018 09:44 Rodya wrote: Shuttle is too high ): Honestly though, after the last power ranking, I've lost the will to complain about these. Well I'll say one more thing - was JD really left out because he wont be playing in a LAN this month? Isn't that the kind of thing that might impact next month's power ranking?
If you want to know why I think that Shuttle is too high: just look at his results - a solid group stage performance, and then barely getting past Action, who was not a true top 8 calibre player (though he had some exciting games including the Shuttle series). His match against Flash was really bad and his match against Last was more of the same. His results don't speak as a top 5 player - better to have Soulkey or JD there.
What makes you say that Soulkey is a good top 5 player right now? I don't really get taht vibe from him, considering he almost choked to Mini and that KSL series just looked absolutely terrible from him. I really had him barely in the top 10 at like 8 or something, anything higher than that was being too generous. I even talked with Jaeyun at Blizzcon about this and we both sorta agreed Soulkey was kinda slumping a bit. I think at his full potential he's easily in the top 4/5 players in the scene right now behind EffOrt FlaSh Last but his games haven't been looking impressive at all.
On November 06 2018 15:00 NoS-Craig wrote: I would've put Last over Rain. Third world and Sparkle are very strong protoss maps. Especially Sparkle, which in my opinion should be renamed to 'lol protoss wins'.
Literally two posts above you it is explained that Sparkle is T>P , actually just as much as Third World is P>T. Maps were fine, Rain just played better
Jeez everyone remembers ASL 5 maps as being PvT disaster maps... I'm on mobile so I can't write exact numbers, but that's what sponbbang is there for.
In all ASL 5 maps, Transistor was the only one broken in terms of PvT balance. But yeah sometimes mapmakers get it wrong; like how Camelot and Gold Rush were very Terran favoured. Other than that, Sparkle favours Terran, 3rd World favours Protoss, and Gladiator is about even. Honestly for a tournament with two concept maps, in terms of TvP it was pretty amazing. And besides, it's not like tournaments of the past had super balanced maps.
The real balance issue in ASL 5 maps was the ZvP balance, which skewed crazily in favour of Protoss (Sparkle, 3rd World). Gladiator favoured Zerg slightly, and Transistor favoured Zerg a little more. So bravo to Hero for making 3rd place.
In short, ASL 5 wasn't a "Let's make sure Protoss wins this one" as much as "Let's see how well Protoss does when Zergs are decimated."
I feel like I made this post a dozen times, but yeah. Flash and Last lost because they were outplayed, not because of the maps.
hmm an interesting PR. Personally, I wouldn't have paid attention to that Rain vs Last showmatch, doesn't indicate much imo since the maps were wacky. I would've put Flash still at #1 as well. IMO, part of a PR is to rank players based on results, but also based on what I would term the "fear factor". Flash is still the scariest opponent for any player alive, including EffOrt. Just because EffOrt managed to win Flash in a close series doesn't mean he takes the #1 spot. It should take a lot more than that to dethrone Flash.
On the bright side, now we just wait for EffOrt to dethrone himself with his play in future tournaments and Flash will go back to #1 again haha.
As always I have to come in here and argue Jaedong should be higher. I said this last time, but I don't think willfully skipping a tournament should mean very much for the power rank. The power rank is (or at least was) never about who has the best results right now, its more like who are the scariest players right now. And Jeadong is one of the absolute scariest players.
Do people forget that Flash stopped practicing on Sparkle because he thought it was so Terran favored that there was no way he'd lose? And then he won there? And its win rate is Terran favored in TvP?
But Last lost because the Sparkle was Protoss favored? Logic is missing from this statement.
Everyone used to say old island maps favored P in PvT but I never read a convincing argument.
Sparkle definitely favored T in TvP with all Terrans going Wraith/Valks against Corsairs.
I thought Effort’s ASL6 interview was interesting when he said the best PvZ player he feared the most was Mini. Mini must be amazing online but I agree he chokes in tournaments every time. He sounds like a poor loser that can’t mentally get past his early game mistakes.
I always like Best a lot and I think he is underrated. Can letmelose tell us something about how Best playstyle is different from Rain, Snow, Mini, and Shuttle? Thanks.
On November 07 2018 00:42 Elroi wrote: As always I have to come in here and argue Jaedong should be higher. I said this last time, but I don't think willfully skipping a tournament should mean very much for the power rank. The power rank is (or at least was) never about who has the best results right now, its more like who are the scariest players right now. And Jeadong is one of the absolute scariest players.
Thanks for the ranking though, Big Fan!
Glad you enjoyed the read, but Ty2 did this one and FlaShFTW did the previous ones. I just did the editing and publishing ^^
On November 07 2018 01:28 Alpha-NP- wrote: Everyone used to say old island maps favored P in PvT but I never read a convincing argument.
Sparkle definitely favored T in TvP with all Terrans going Wraith/Valks against Corsairs.
I thought Effort’s ASL6 interview was interesting when he said the best PvZ player he feared the most was Mini. Mini must be amazing online but I agree he chokes in tournaments every time. He sounds like a poor loser that can’t mentally get past his early game mistakes.
I always like Best a lot and I think he is underrated. Can letmelose tell us something about how Best playstyle is different from Rain, Snow, Mini, and Shuttle? Thanks.
Every player has their unique footprint, and no single person can fully gather all their nuances to their game, but I'll try listing what I've read on the playstyles, and some of my own thoughts on the matter:
1) BeSt: The best build optimizer the protoss race has arguably ever seen. His probe count optimization, and meticulous detail to the builds are ridiculously refined. While he doesn't have the game changing movement of SnOw, or the piercing plays of Mini, he has the most highly developed macro-management set up out of any protoss out there. On maps that demand less orthodox macro-management play, and ask more technical plays with units such as carriers, his greatest strength as a player is nullified, and he seems much weaker as a result.
2) Rain: I think he is the most well balanced protoss in the scene right now. He has decent multi-tasking, good macro-management, fantastic read on situations, and breaks the game down in a methodical manner. I think he has more in common with fellow SK Telecom T1 protoss players such as BeSt, or Bisu (all of whom are known for their solid macro-management), than more playmaking protoss players such as SnOw.
3) SnOw: I personally think he makes the most out of his units, as if he is playing an RPG game. He may not have the absolute best unit micro-management (although it is very good when confined to small scale armies), but he knows how to maximize their playmaking potential, especially within the protoss-versus-terran match-up. He knows how to abuse the terran units with his own key units better than probably any player out there. He specializes in playmaking units such as reavers, and carriers. SnOw is perhaps the only protoss that makes me feel like the protoss race out-ranges the terran race with how he abuses certain angles or terrains.
He doesn't have the best macro-management fundamentals, and his build orders aren't perfectly optimized, but he is able to create situations for himself (most with excellent unit movement) where his lack of macro-management prowess becomes less of an issue. However, this means he is prone to swings in form, and while he is my favourite protoss player to watch, I think Rain has a higher skill ceiling than SnOw.
4) Mini: I think Mini has some of the best small scale micro-management execution out of any protoss players out there. His probe, zealot, and reaver micro-management are second to none, and are potent enough to heavily swing the games in his favour. SnOw personally rates Mini very highly due to his ability to micro-manage his units to perfection, but I don't think he is as savy as SnOw is (in terms of changing the flow of the game in his favour). While his early game is extremely frightening, his late-game decision making and execution has a lot to be desired for, and sometimes he over-commits on his micro-management duels to his own demise. He has some of the best handle of early game situations, but the chances of Mini winning seems to fall off a cliff as time progresses.
5) Shuttle: Shuttle to me seems to play the game to persue two things. Large scale battles, and spamming units from production buildings. For example, while both Shuttle and SnOw enjoy using carriers versus the terran race, SnOw seems to wear down the terran opponent to death, while Shuttle seems to prefer head on engagements. He has some of the best large scale battle execution out of any player out there, and is famed for his extremely potent late game protoss-verus-zerg abilities. However, outside of his strengths, he is not particularly impressive in the early game, and is kind of the polar opposite of Mini, where his execution of the late game situations are flawless, but it seems he doesn't know how to get there efficiently.
That's about it, really. I always preferred players who playmaked with their units, so I have less to say about those who focus more on macro-management.
On November 07 2018 01:28 Alpha-NP- wrote: Everyone used to say old island maps favored P in PvT but I never read a convincing argument.
Sparkle definitely favored T in TvP with all Terrans going Wraith/Valks against Corsairs.
I thought Effort’s ASL6 interview was interesting when he said the best PvZ player he feared the most was Mini. Mini must be amazing online but I agree he chokes in tournaments every time. He sounds like a poor loser that can’t mentally get past his early game mistakes.
I always like Best a lot and I think he is underrated. Can letmelose tell us something about how Best playstyle is different from Rain, Snow, Mini, and Shuttle? Thanks.
If you paid attention to Effort stream you will notice that the only protoss he struggles to is Mini, so it is no surprise he says this. I am not convinced that it's because Mini is better than an other at this match up, I think he is good particularly vs EffOrt style. I was confident he would take down any terran for as long as he could display his best (which what happened of course (kaboom)), but for Mini I am always unsure, it's like he knows how to handle EffOrt more than any other.
On November 07 2018 01:28 Alpha-NP- wrote: Everyone used to say old island maps favored P in PvT but I never read a convincing argument.
Sparkle definitely favored T in TvP with all Terrans going Wraith/Valks against Corsairs.
I thought Effort’s ASL6 interview was interesting when he said the best PvZ player he feared the most was Mini. Mini must be amazing online but I agree he chokes in tournaments every time. He sounds like a poor loser that can’t mentally get past his early game mistakes.
I always like Best a lot and I think he is underrated. Can letmelose tell us something about how Best playstyle is different from Rain, Snow, Mini, and Shuttle? Thanks.
If you paid attention to Effort stream you will notice that the only protoss he struggles to is Mini, so it is no surprise he says this. I am not convinced that it's because Mini is better than an other at this match up, I think he is good particularly vs EffOrt style. I was confident he would take down any terran for as long as he could display his best (which what happened of course (kaboom)), but for Mini I am always unsure, it's like he knows how to handle EffOrt more than any other.
The things Mini does that are out of the ordinary:
- his micro can be out-of-this-world good - his decision-making can be very, very unpredictable and in rare occasions even non-sensical - is more aggressive than any other Protosses I know
I could see him being a bit of an odd-ball for a very aggressive Zerg.
On November 07 2018 01:28 Alpha-NP- wrote: Everyone used to say old island maps favored P in PvT but I never read a convincing argument.
Sparkle definitely favored T in TvP with all Terrans going Wraith/Valks against Corsairs.
I thought Effort’s ASL6 interview was interesting when he said the best PvZ player he feared the most was Mini. Mini must be amazing online but I agree he chokes in tournaments every time. He sounds like a poor loser that can’t mentally get past his early game mistakes.
I always like Best a lot and I think he is underrated. Can letmelose tell us something about how Best playstyle is different from Rain, Snow, Mini, and Shuttle? Thanks.
If you paid attention to Effort stream you will notice that the only protoss he struggles to is Mini, so it is no surprise he says this. I am not convinced that it's because Mini is better than an other at this match up, I think he is good particularly vs EffOrt style. I was confident he would take down any terran for as long as he could display his best (which what happened of course (kaboom)), but for Mini I am always unsure, it's like he knows how to handle EffOrt more than any other.
It hasn't been that long that Jaedong finished 2nd in KSL, beating Rain who is ranked 3rd on this. He should definitely be included, especially over people like Sharp or Mini. He went 1-1 with Flash in ASL, that's better than pretty much everyone except for Effort. I personally couldn't care less about online results. Lan is where it's at. So imo online results like Sponbang should matter very little for this ranking. If it has to be online, at least only include high prestige stuff like MPL. I agree with the others saying that Shuttle is ranked way too high. He should at the very least be ranked lower than Soulkey after the beating he got from Flash.
I know power rank is mostly about recent performance, but in the real rankings it's very tough to rank Effort/Last/Rain between 2-4 and all orderings can be argued. Also have no lean as to who is the current #5, and there seems to be a major drop off from the Effort/Last/Rain tier to whoever is next.
Pretty absurd how many options I had to include (and didn't include Larva), but given that I don't even know who I think is #5 at this point, I couldn't know who other people think is #5.
On November 08 2018 02:56 BigBalls wrote: I know power rank is mostly about recent performance, but in the real rankings it's very tough to rank Effort/Last/Rain between 2-4 and all orderings can be argued. Also have no lean as to who is the current #5, and there seems to be a major drop off from the Effort/Last/Rain tier to whoever is next.
Tier wise, this is what I have in raw skill and not just performances: S+: FlaSh S: EffOrt, Last S-: Rain A+: Jaedong A: Mini, Soulkey A-: Action, Shuttle, Snow B: Sharp, MIsO, Light, Mind, BeSt
On November 08 2018 02:56 BigBalls wrote: I know power rank is mostly about recent performance, but in the real rankings it's very tough to rank Effort/Last/Rain between 2-4 and all orderings can be argued. Also have no lean as to who is the current #5, and there seems to be a major drop off from the Effort/Last/Rain tier to whoever is next.
Tier wise, this is what I have in raw skill and not just performances: S+: FlaSh S: EffOrt, Last S-: Rain A+: Jaedong A: Mini, Soulkey A-: Action, Shuttle, Snow B: Sharp, MIsO, Light, Mind, BeSt
i agree with this list if u change rain for jd, imo rain is really overrated.
On November 08 2018 02:56 BigBalls wrote: I know power rank is mostly about recent performance, but in the real rankings it's very tough to rank Effort/Last/Rain between 2-4 and all orderings can be argued. Also have no lean as to who is the current #5, and there seems to be a major drop off from the Effort/Last/Rain tier to whoever is next.
Tier wise, this is what I have in raw skill and not just performances: S+: FlaSh S: EffOrt, Last S-: Rain A+: Jaedong A: Mini, Soulkey A-: Action, Shuttle, Snow B: Sharp, MIsO, Light, Mind, BeSt
I haven't watched enough games so I'm not suggesting that I know better, but didn't Effort and Jaedong both stomp Rain in ASL and KSL? Rain didn't look so good.
Also, if you publish a list that's basically the same as this every month maybe the "recency bias" whiners will finally be happy.
On November 08 2018 02:56 BigBalls wrote: I know power rank is mostly about recent performance, but in the real rankings it's very tough to rank Effort/Last/Rain between 2-4 and all orderings can be argued. Also have no lean as to who is the current #5, and there seems to be a major drop off from the Effort/Last/Rain tier to whoever is next.
Tier wise, this is what I have in raw skill and not just performances: S+: FlaSh S: EffOrt, Last S-: Rain A+: Jaedong A: Mini, Soulkey A-: Action, Shuttle, Snow B: Sharp, MIsO, Light, Mind, BeSt
I haven't watched enough games so I'm not suggesting that I know better, but didn't Effort and Jaedong both stomp Rain in ASL and KSL? Rain didn't look so good.
Also, if you publish a list that's basically the same as this every month maybe the "recency bias" whiners will finally be happy.
Rain lost to both in one sided fashion, but also beat Last in one sided fashion and had better overall results across ASL5/ASL6/KSL (1/3-4/5-8) than anyone. I don't read too much into the KSL/ASL match vs Last because of the maps. I know people think Sparkle is favored for T vs P, but Last went out early of ASL5 and at that point in time it was heavily P favored, and since he was eliminated ro24, likely he didn't continue to practice it as much as Rain.
Gun to my head top 10: 1. Flash 2. Last 3. Effort 4. Rain 5. JD 6. Soulkey (never seems to perform when it counts, but most skilled of remaining players) 7. Mini 8. Sharp 9. Action 10. Best
On November 08 2018 02:56 BigBalls wrote: I know power rank is mostly about recent performance, but in the real rankings it's very tough to rank Effort/Last/Rain between 2-4 and all orderings can be argued. Also have no lean as to who is the current #5, and there seems to be a major drop off from the Effort/Last/Rain tier to whoever is next.
Tier wise, this is what I have in raw skill and not just performances: S+: FlaSh S: EffOrt, Last S-: Rain A+: Jaedong A: Mini, Soulkey A-: Action, Shuttle, Snow B: Sharp, MIsO, Light, Mind, BeSt
I haven't watched enough games so I'm not suggesting that I know better, but didn't Effort and Jaedong both stomp Rain in ASL and KSL? Rain didn't look so good.
Also, if you publish a list that's basically the same as this every month maybe the "recency bias" whiners will finally be happy.
Rain is that high because his other two matchups, PvT and PvP is amazing. PvP is #1 and PvT is #1/2 (behind Snow maybe). I think he's slightly better overall than JD right now because JD is starting to crack mentally (ASL group). I think you could move them back and forth and I wouldn't disagree much.
On November 08 2018 02:56 BigBalls wrote: I know power rank is mostly about recent performance, but in the real rankings it's very tough to rank Effort/Last/Rain between 2-4 and all orderings can be argued. Also have no lean as to who is the current #5, and there seems to be a major drop off from the Effort/Last/Rain tier to whoever is next.
Tier wise, this is what I have in raw skill and not just performances: S+: FlaSh S: EffOrt, Last S-: Rain A+: Jaedong A: Mini, Soulkey A-: Action, Shuttle, Snow B: Sharp, MIsO, Light, Mind, BeSt
I like this list. I wonder what people would think if instead of power rankings, you guys did these tiered rankings. Someone asked why I would put Soulkey at 5, and the answer is that I agree with that person as well, Soulkey wouldn't make a great 5. I think JD would, as this post would indicate.
On November 08 2018 02:56 BigBalls wrote: I know power rank is mostly about recent performance, but in the real rankings it's very tough to rank Effort/Last/Rain between 2-4 and all orderings can be argued. Also have no lean as to who is the current #5, and there seems to be a major drop off from the Effort/Last/Rain tier to whoever is next.
Tier wise, this is what I have in raw skill and not just performances: S+: FlaSh S: EffOrt, Last S-: Rain A+: Jaedong A: Mini, Soulkey A-: Action, Shuttle, Snow B: Sharp, MIsO, Light, Mind, BeSt
On November 08 2018 02:56 BigBalls wrote: I know power rank is mostly about recent performance, but in the real rankings it's very tough to rank Effort/Last/Rain between 2-4 and all orderings can be argued. Also have no lean as to who is the current #5, and there seems to be a major drop off from the Effort/Last/Rain tier to whoever is next.
Tier wise, this is what I have in raw skill and not just performances: S+: FlaSh S: EffOrt, Last S-: Rain A+: Jaedong A: Mini, Soulkey A-: Action, Shuttle, Snow B: Sharp, MIsO, Light, Mind, BeSt
This is actually a better PR
It's POWER rankings, not PERFORMANCE RANKINGS
I think people need to understand that everyone has a different definition of a "power rank". Me personally, a POWER rank entices more trendlines and rewards good performance. If a player continues to play well, they will end up higher. If they don't, they drop. As such, someone like EffOrt is rewarded for playing well. If someone isn't playing up to their potential, let's say Soulkey right now, why should we reward them with a higher placement on the list? That doesn't make any sense to me. Obviously, we forgive him because we know his potential, but let's say his underperformance starts becoming consistent, like EffORt was from ASL2-5? Who's to say that this is just a choke or his actual skill level now? And that's why the PR reflects these dips in skill, because we don't know for sure how they are playing. Like Shuttle after ASL1, do we know for sure if he's that good now? Or is this a one time thing. We don't know, but we move him up the rank in case he is that good.
An actual ranking that I did above based upon actual raw skill and highest performance is boring. How much movement would there be month to month? Like, let's look 2 months ago. Do you really think that my current list is much different? It gets boring if there's no movement, people are just going to say, ok these players are all the same, maybe a player moves up a rank and someone moves down. But otherwise I don't like that system for generating discussion. You would start arguing over tiny details like if someone is A+ or A, or S- or A+.
This is why I will continue to use my format for power rankings in the future, and intend to use this system for a long time. If you want a "how good are these players at their potential", then you can make that your own ranking. I'm totally down for someone to make a side by side ranking for people to look at. We can see who is over performing or under performing based upon the stable, actual skill rank vs the power rank. And that's why power ranks are fun for me. Sometimes you do get good players who get knocked out early. Sometimes you have dark horses make a deep run (shuttle for ASL6), and that's the fun of the game and tournament format.
Effort underperformed until he didn't. Too much movement is also not ideal, since it's just "who won games this month"
If you look at fantasy rankings every week, yes, Todd Gurley is #1 every week. So what? He's just that good. Does he get the most fantasy points every week? No, often he's not the top scorer. But he consistently scores high.
But there's still movement and disagreement on who's #2 for the rest of the season or next week. Similarly, Larva moved up to maybe even be #2 player in the world for a moment and promptly sank to like #15.
We really need to have StarCraft fantasy leagues with money on the line. Then people's ratings can really be tested. It's not a real rating until you bet on it. People really change their behavior if they have something to lose.
On November 08 2018 18:58 iopq wrote: Effort underperformed until he didn't. Too much movement is also not ideal, since it's just "who won games this month"
If you look at fantasy rankings every week, yes, Todd Gurley is #1 every week. So what? He's just that good. Does he get the most fantasy points every week? No, often he's not the top scorer. But he consistently scores high.
But there's still movement and disagreement on who's #2 for the rest of the season or next week. Similarly, Larva moved up to maybe even be #2 player in the world for a moment and promptly sank to like #15.
We really need to have StarCraft fantasy leagues with money on the line. Then people's ratings can really be tested. It's not a real rating until you bet on it. People really change their behavior if they have something to lose.
Yes, but how do you know when EffOrt is underperforming or he's actually just bad? Like that was the question for the longest time. Was it just a one-time choke? Was it just a two-time choke? How do you know when it's not a choke anymore and it's just someone who's actually fallen off. Like Stork for example? Is Stork just choking? Or is he just that bad now? How do you make those distinctions.
I agree too much movement is not ideal which is why I have also adjusted my formula for ranking over time, someone like Jaedong, for my personal PR this month, might have kept his spot when he was 7th last PR (7/8? I don't remember).
I think if people take liquibets seriously it makes for some decent indicators of who's actually predicting the right matches. And obviously some people will be a bit higher based upon some of their sick underdog predictions but otherwise, I think I do a pretty good job with a 77% prediction rate. Not perfect or even close to that by any means, but it's enough to get me to #61 on the PR, and generally that's where I've been most liquibet seasons, even as high as the top 10 two seasons ago. (I think?)
On November 08 2018 18:58 iopq wrote: Effort underperformed until he didn't. Too much movement is also not ideal, since it's just "who won games this month"
If you look at fantasy rankings every week, yes, Todd Gurley is #1 every week. So what? He's just that good. Does he get the most fantasy points every week? No, often he's not the top scorer. But he consistently scores high.
But there's still movement and disagreement on who's #2 for the rest of the season or next week. Similarly, Larva moved up to maybe even be #2 player in the world for a moment and promptly sank to like #15.
We really need to have StarCraft fantasy leagues with money on the line. Then people's ratings can really be tested. It's not a real rating until you bet on it. People really change their behavior if they have something to lose.
Yes, but how do you know when EffOrt is underperforming or he's actually just bad? Like that was the question for the longest time. Was it just a one-time choke? Was it just a two-time choke? How do you know when it's not a choke anymore and it's just someone who's actually fallen off.
On November 08 2018 18:58 iopq wrote: Effort underperformed until he didn't. Too much movement is also not ideal, since it's just "who won games this month"
If you look at fantasy rankings every week, yes, Todd Gurley is #1 every week. So what? He's just that good. Does he get the most fantasy points every week? No, often he's not the top scorer. But he consistently scores high.
But there's still movement and disagreement on who's #2 for the rest of the season or next week. Similarly, Larva moved up to maybe even be #2 player in the world for a moment and promptly sank to like #15.
We really need to have StarCraft fantasy leagues with money on the line. Then people's ratings can really be tested. It's not a real rating until you bet on it. People really change their behavior if they have something to lose.
Yes, but how do you know when EffOrt is underperforming or he's actually just bad? Like that was the question for the longest time. Was it just a one-time choke? Was it just a two-time choke? How do you know when it's not a choke anymore and it's just someone who's actually fallen off.
By watching his stream you !@#$
Stork is gone, EffOrt was out playing ums...
so your justification of effort merely choking and not underperforming was... his ums games... what?
On November 08 2018 18:58 iopq wrote: Effort underperformed until he didn't. Too much movement is also not ideal, since it's just "who won games this month"
If you look at fantasy rankings every week, yes, Todd Gurley is #1 every week. So what? He's just that good. Does he get the most fantasy points every week? No, often he's not the top scorer. But he consistently scores high.
But there's still movement and disagreement on who's #2 for the rest of the season or next week. Similarly, Larva moved up to maybe even be #2 player in the world for a moment and promptly sank to like #15.
We really need to have StarCraft fantasy leagues with money on the line. Then people's ratings can really be tested. It's not a real rating until you bet on it. People really change their behavior if they have something to lose.
Yes, but how do you know when EffOrt is underperforming or he's actually just bad? Like that was the question for the longest time. Was it just a one-time choke? Was it just a two-time choke? How do you know when it's not a choke anymore and it's just someone who's actually fallen off.
By watching his stream you !@#$
Stork is gone, EffOrt was out playing ums...
The point of this forum is to educate and inform if you actually have insight to share. Not spam the same useless argument over and over again everytime you become upset.
EffOrt may have not been the best performing zerg player in LAN tournaments in 2017, but he probably had the best results in online sponsored matches (in non-mirror match-ups at least, he wasn't that fantastic at the zerg-versus-zerg match-up even online, which came back to haunt him in multiple seasons of the ASL). I at leaast have some first hand experience, because I was paying for some of the games you watched, while you masturbated about how awesome you are for how much you watch games others are paying for you.
EffOrt was the third ranked player behind Flash and Last in online sponsored matches as of December 2017 (ELO points based on online sponsored matches that took place since May 2017, when the site begins to record everything), with a very respectable head-to-head record versus Flash, which was one of the main points of argument for his skill even if he wasn't dominant in the mirror match-up, or could post LAN results that mirrored his form online.
With the rise of the 1-1-1 strategy, EffOrt started to tilt himself off the face of the planet, dropping to 20th rank by February 2018 in terms of online sponsored matches he was previously famed for. Much of this was due to EffOrt being completely incapable of handling Flash in particular, a foe he matched the best out of the zergs previously, as represented by his 4-46 (11.5% win rate) record against him specifically (from December 2017 to February 2018). From having the best head-to-head record versus Flash out of all the zerg players from May 2017 to November 2017, EffOrt lagged behind the meta-game while players such as herO (who spearheaded the build order revamp from the zerg camp) and Soulkey (the methodical decision making genius) had vastly superior results and initial build order redesign compared to EffOrt.
This was the lowest point for EffOrt, because not only did he lack ASL results for years on end, but he lost his famed online form to a build that he initially had no idea how to counter. Do you think he figured all this shit out by himself? Are you just going to ignore any time period that EffOrt lacks results in by posting excuses and emotional outbursts, rather than trying to examine what actually happened?
EffOrt's resurgence to form is a welcome addition to this scene, he indeed is a unique talent separate from his results, but you either simplifying EffOrt's narrative to EffOrt being good until he wants to be, or are blatantly avoiding posting details despite claiming to watch his stream more than anybody on this forum. What good is your knowledge if you are incapable of articulating even the most basic storyline that everybody who speaks Korean and follows Brood War knows?
You're like the kid who thinks school grades only counts until you yourself became motivated enough to study. Excuses of what grades you could have potentially achieved ultimately doesn't matter, because the reality is you didn't study, and you failed. Yes, results aren't everything, but you know what? They are universal. The depths to which you go to make excuses for EffOrt aren't being replicated for every player on the planet, because you don't give two shits about making personal excuses about those players. I go about making result based analysis, because it doesn't matter who I prefer or watch more, because results are gained objectively. The kind of knowledge you get from knowing results, watching someone all the time, and playing someone all the time are all different. The problem is, you cannot play everyone, you cannot watch everyone, but you can know all their results. So opinionated insight only becomes safe from bias after you learn to appreciate all the nuances of the results. Then again, you seem to relish in bias, so feel free to continue what you and your ilk always do, this post was more about relaying information to people who can actually think and articulate topics on hand anyways.
On November 08 2018 18:58 iopq wrote: Effort underperformed until he didn't. Too much movement is also not ideal, since it's just "who won games this month"
If you look at fantasy rankings every week, yes, Todd Gurley is #1 every week. So what? He's just that good. Does he get the most fantasy points every week? No, often he's not the top scorer. But he consistently scores high.
But there's still movement and disagreement on who's #2 for the rest of the season or next week. Similarly, Larva moved up to maybe even be #2 player in the world for a moment and promptly sank to like #15.
We really need to have StarCraft fantasy leagues with money on the line. Then people's ratings can really be tested. It's not a real rating until you bet on it. People really change their behavior if they have something to lose.
Yes, but how do you know when EffOrt is underperforming or he's actually just bad? Like that was the question for the longest time. Was it just a one-time choke? Was it just a two-time choke? How do you know when it's not a choke anymore and it's just someone who's actually fallen off.
By watching his stream you !@#$
Stork is gone, EffOrt was out playing ums...
so your justification of effort merely choking and not underperforming was... his ums games... what?
It's likely that EffOrt got sick of losing against Flash so much, and gravitated towards ums games to take a break. His performance offline has been abysmal for a so called S rank player since his VANT win until this latest ASL win.
On November 08 2018 18:58 iopq wrote: Effort underperformed until he didn't. Too much movement is also not ideal, since it's just "who won games this month"
If you look at fantasy rankings every week, yes, Todd Gurley is #1 every week. So what? He's just that good. Does he get the most fantasy points every week? No, often he's not the top scorer. But he consistently scores high.
But there's still movement and disagreement on who's #2 for the rest of the season or next week. Similarly, Larva moved up to maybe even be #2 player in the world for a moment and promptly sank to like #15.
We really need to have StarCraft fantasy leagues with money on the line. Then people's ratings can really be tested. It's not a real rating until you bet on it. People really change their behavior if they have something to lose.
Yes, but how do you know when EffOrt is underperforming or he's actually just bad? Like that was the question for the longest time. Was it just a one-time choke? Was it just a two-time choke? How do you know when it's not a choke anymore and it's just someone who's actually fallen off.
By watching his stream you !@#$
Stork is gone, EffOrt was out playing ums...
so your justification of effort merely choking and not underperforming was... his ums games... what?
It's likely that EffOrt got sick of losing against Flash so much, and gravitated towards ums games to take a break. His performance offline has been abysmal for a so called S rank player since his VANT win until this latest ASL win.
No way. Effort was doing very well 2016-2017. He started falling after Flash crushed him with 1-1-1.
On November 08 2018 18:58 iopq wrote: Effort underperformed until he didn't. Too much movement is also not ideal, since it's just "who won games this month"
If you look at fantasy rankings every week, yes, Todd Gurley is #1 every week. So what? He's just that good. Does he get the most fantasy points every week? No, often he's not the top scorer. But he consistently scores high.
But there's still movement and disagreement on who's #2 for the rest of the season or next week. Similarly, Larva moved up to maybe even be #2 player in the world for a moment and promptly sank to like #15.
We really need to have StarCraft fantasy leagues with money on the line. Then people's ratings can really be tested. It's not a real rating until you bet on it. People really change their behavior if they have something to lose.
Yes, but how do you know when EffOrt is underperforming or he's actually just bad? Like that was the question for the longest time. Was it just a one-time choke? Was it just a two-time choke? How do you know when it's not a choke anymore and it's just someone who's actually fallen off.
By watching his stream you !@#$
Stork is gone, EffOrt was out playing ums...
so your justification of effort merely choking and not underperforming was... his ums games... what?
It's likely that EffOrt got sick of losing against Flash so much, and gravitated towards ums games to take a break. His performance offline has been abysmal for a so called S rank player since his VANT win until this latest ASL win.
No way. Effort was doing very well 2016-2017. He started falling after Flash crushed him with 1-1-1.
Sorry mate, but you're mistaken. These are his standings in ASL. Keep in mind that ASL1 started with the Ro16 so he didn't even make it a step further. He's lost to everything and everyone: ASL1 Ro16 last place exit (tied with free) ASL2 Ro24 second last place exit ASL3 Ro16 second last place exit ASL4 Ro16 second last place exit ASL5 Ro16 second last place exit
I'm sure someone will say he beat Flash in that Seoul Cup. Well, ok? I mean, the whole invitational only had 4 players in it lol. SSL Classic which he also won had TBLS declining to play, and some other players due to it being done by fan voting, aka no open qualifiers. Add on the fact that there were only 8 players, so that casts that tournament's result more into doubt. What else did he win? Maybe some online tournaments? Only thing I see is a second place finish in Terror Starleague which took place before ASL1.
Is he a good player? sure. Is he an S-rank player? He certainly can be at times. Does he have great sponmatch results? Sure. Did he have a great time after winning VANT? Based off results, I would say no, not really. He had a lot of expectations, and he's failed to achieve them offline (and it doesn't seem like he did much online). He's been beaten by almost everyone out there, even before the 1-1-1 came into place. I can make a list if anyone is interested, but LP is a click away. It's only with this latest ASL win that he's back on track, and there is a chance that he'll fall off again when the next ASL comes around considering his inconsistency, but who knows.
Edit: Shuttle, sSak, Rain, Light, Soulkey, Bisu, Larva, hero is a list of players who eliminated EffOrt in ASL. Keep in mind that Shuttle and Larva eliminated him twice so didn't bother repeating their names.
On November 08 2018 18:58 iopq wrote: Effort underperformed until he didn't. Too much movement is also not ideal, since it's just "who won games this month"
If you look at fantasy rankings every week, yes, Todd Gurley is #1 every week. So what? He's just that good. Does he get the most fantasy points every week? No, often he's not the top scorer. But he consistently scores high.
But there's still movement and disagreement on who's #2 for the rest of the season or next week. Similarly, Larva moved up to maybe even be #2 player in the world for a moment and promptly sank to like #15.
We really need to have StarCraft fantasy leagues with money on the line. Then people's ratings can really be tested. It's not a real rating until you bet on it. People really change their behavior if they have something to lose.
Yes, but how do you know when EffOrt is underperforming or he's actually just bad? Like that was the question for the longest time. Was it just a one-time choke? Was it just a two-time choke? How do you know when it's not a choke anymore and it's just someone who's actually fallen off.
By watching his stream you !@#$
Stork is gone, EffOrt was out playing ums...
so your justification of effort merely choking and not underperforming was... his ums games... what?
It's likely that EffOrt got sick of losing against Flash so much, and gravitated towards ums games to take a break. His performance offline has been abysmal for a so called S rank player since his VANT win until this latest ASL win.
No way. Effort was doing very well 2016-2017. He started falling after Flash crushed him with 1-1-1.
Sorry mate, but you're mistaken. These are his standings in ASL. Keep in mind that ASL1 started with the Ro16 so he didn't even make it a step further. He's lost to everything and everyone: ASL1 Ro16 last place exit (tied with free) ASL2 Ro24 second last place exit ASL3 Ro16 second last place exit ASL4 Ro16 second last place exit ASL5 Ro16 second last place exit
I'm sure someone will say he beat Flash in that Seoul Cup. Well, ok? I mean, the whole invitational only had 4 players in it lol. SSL Classic which he also won had TBLS declining to play, and some other players due to it being done by fan voting, aka no open qualifiers. Add on the fact that there were only 8 players, so that casts that tournament's result more into doubt. What else did he win? Maybe some online tournaments? Only thing I see is a second place finish in Terror Starleague which took place before ASL1.
Is he a good player? sure. Is he an S-rank player? He certainly can be at times. Does he have great sponmatch results? Sure. Did he have a great time after winning VANT? Based off results, I would say no, not really. He had a lot of expectations, and he's failed to achieve them offline (and it doesn't seem like he did much online). He's been beaten by almost everyone out there, even before the 1-1-1 came into place. I can make a list if anyone is interested, but LP is a click away. It's only with this latest ASL win that he's back on track, and there is a chance that he'll fall off again when the next ASL comes around considering his inconsistency, but who knows.
Edit: Shuttle, sSak, Rain, Light, Soulkey, Bisu, Larva, hero is a list of players who eliminated EffOrt in ASL. Keep in mind that Shuttle and Larva eliminated him twice so didn't bother repeating their names.
Ah, sorry I misread offline part as online. And regarding Efforts ASL results you are absolutely right.
not really sure what are guys trying to prove no more. all i see are mentions from playrrs that are not winning championships.what do u wanna prove Flash is best? everyone knows that.effort last in the rank mid or top.doesnt matter.the funny part is that most of you arguing are so bad playing starcraft,im curious why with such knowledge.but is all love and fun <3
On November 08 2018 18:58 iopq wrote: Effort underperformed until he didn't. Too much movement is also not ideal, since it's just "who won games this month"
If you look at fantasy rankings every week, yes, Todd Gurley is #1 every week. So what? He's just that good. Does he get the most fantasy points every week? No, often he's not the top scorer. But he consistently scores high.
But there's still movement and disagreement on who's #2 for the rest of the season or next week. Similarly, Larva moved up to maybe even be #2 player in the world for a moment and promptly sank to like #15.
We really need to have StarCraft fantasy leagues with money on the line. Then people's ratings can really be tested. It's not a real rating until you bet on it. People really change their behavior if they have something to lose.
Yes, but how do you know when EffOrt is underperforming or he's actually just bad? Like that was the question for the longest time. Was it just a one-time choke? Was it just a two-time choke? How do you know when it's not a choke anymore and it's just someone who's actually fallen off.
By watching his stream you !@#$
Stork is gone, EffOrt was out playing ums...
so your justification of effort merely choking and not underperforming was... his ums games... what?
I thought this was pretty explicit, he was playing more ums than actually training, but that is taken in account you watched his stream which you obviously didn't.
On November 08 2018 18:58 iopq wrote: Effort underperformed until he didn't. Too much movement is also not ideal, since it's just "who won games this month"
If you look at fantasy rankings every week, yes, Todd Gurley is #1 every week. So what? He's just that good. Does he get the most fantasy points every week? No, often he's not the top scorer. But he consistently scores high.
But there's still movement and disagreement on who's #2 for the rest of the season or next week. Similarly, Larva moved up to maybe even be #2 player in the world for a moment and promptly sank to like #15.
We really need to have StarCraft fantasy leagues with money on the line. Then people's ratings can really be tested. It's not a real rating until you bet on it. People really change their behavior if they have something to lose.
Yes, but how do you know when EffOrt is underperforming or he's actually just bad? Like that was the question for the longest time. Was it just a one-time choke? Was it just a two-time choke? How do you know when it's not a choke anymore and it's just someone who's actually fallen off.
By watching his stream you !@#$
Stork is gone, EffOrt was out playing ums...
so your justification of effort merely choking and not underperforming was... his ums games... what?
I thought this was pretty explicit, he was playing more ums than actually training, but that is taken in account you watched his stream which you obviously didn't.
Go reply to LetmeLose’s post first, then I’ll start acknowledging what you have to say.
EPT
![[image loading]](/staff/BigFan/ASL_PR/EffOrt.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/prech/files/RaceIcons/Ticon_pastel_Hyde.png)
![[image loading]](/staff/BigFan/Flash.jpg)
![[image loading]](/staff/BigFan/ASL_PR/Rain.jpg)
![[image loading]](/staff/BigFan/ASL_PR/Last.jpg)
![[image loading]](/staff/BigFan/ASL_PR/Shuttle.jpg)
![[image loading]](/staff/BigFan/ASL_PR/Soulkey.jpg)
![[image loading]](/staff/BigFan/ASL_PR/Action.jpg)
![[image loading]](/staff/BigFan/ASL_PR/Sharp.jpg)
![[image loading]](/staff/BigFan/ASL_PR/Mini.jpg)
![[image loading]](/staff/BigFan/ASL_PR/Light.jpg)
Sparkle
I said this last time, but I don't think willfully skipping a tournament should mean very much for the power rank. The power rank is (or at least was) never about who has the best results right now, its more like who are the scariest players right now. And Jeadong is one of the absolute scariest players. ![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/R2fjNvh.jpg)
