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The lack of critical thought in this thread is appalling.
KeSPA most definitely had the same old disgusting corporate business practices as blizzard does now; I wouldn't put it past afreeca either.
You guys really think afreeca's some no-profit revive BW charity like they're presentint themselves to be in this statement. Give me a break probably just as bad as kespa.
I thought the word on the street was that blizzard couldn't throw money at BW because of their past agreements with KeSPA, making it so KeSPA had all the rights to hosting BW leagues (i.e. even if blizzard wanted to include BW in their wcs circuit they can't). Obviously there must be some overlap between execs at Afreeca and KeSPA or you know whatever rich south korean execs that made all the money off of eSports. We all know KeSPA were far from saints yet we're letting Afreeca get away with this one sided shit lmao.
Yeah Blizzard's obviously awful, but you can't just look at this PR press release and just mindlessly play into it lmao.
Get your heads out of your asses.
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On January 21 2018 01:01 .gypsy wrote:
The lack of critical thought in this thread is appalling.
KeSPA most definitely had the same old disgusting corporate business practices as blizzard does now; I wouldn't put it past afreeca either.
You guys really think afreeca's some no-profit revive BW charity like they're presentint themselves to be in this statement. Give me a break probably just as bad as kespa.
I thought the word on the street was that blizzard couldn't throw money at BW because of their past agreements with KeSPA, making it so KeSPA had all the rights to hosting BW leagues (i.e. even if blizzard wanted to include BW in their wcs circuit they can't). Obviously there must be some overlap between execs at Afreeca and KeSPA or you know whatever rich south korean execs that made all the money off of eSports. We all know KeSPA were far from saints yet we're letting Afreeca get away with this one sided shit lmao.
Yeah Blizzard's obviously awful, but you can't just look at this PR press release and just mindlessly play into it lmao.
Get your heads out of your asses.
Ah yes, so it is because of Kespa that Blizzard can't throw money at BW, so they demand 100k in fees from Afreeca because reasons?
holy fuck
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On January 21 2018 01:09 duke91 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 21 2018 01:01 .gypsy wrote:
The lack of critical thought in this thread is appalling.
KeSPA most definitely had the same old disgusting corporate business practices as blizzard does now; I wouldn't put it past afreeca either.
You guys really think afreeca's some no-profit revive BW charity like they're presentint themselves to be in this statement. Give me a break probably just as bad as kespa.
I thought the word on the street was that blizzard couldn't throw money at BW because of their past agreements with KeSPA, making it so KeSPA had all the rights to hosting BW leagues (i.e. even if blizzard wanted to include BW in their wcs circuit they can't). Obviously there must be some overlap between execs at Afreeca and KeSPA or you know whatever rich south korean execs that made all the money off of eSports. We all know KeSPA were far from saints yet we're letting Afreeca get away with this one sided shit lmao.
Yeah Blizzard's obviously awful, but you can't just look at this PR press release and just mindlessly play into it lmao.
Get your heads out of your asses.
Ah yes, so it is because of Kespa that Blizzard can't throw money at BW, so they demand 100k in fees from Afreeca because reasons? holy fuck
I love that you take everything at face value as long as it suits your bias/narrative. The truth is we have no idea what is actually going on and the people working for afreeca are no saints either.
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On January 21 2018 01:11 The_Red_Viper wrote:Show nested quote +On January 21 2018 01:09 duke91 wrote:On January 21 2018 01:01 .gypsy wrote:
The lack of critical thought in this thread is appalling.
KeSPA most definitely had the same old disgusting corporate business practices as blizzard does now; I wouldn't put it past afreeca either.
You guys really think afreeca's some no-profit revive BW charity like they're presentint themselves to be in this statement. Give me a break probably just as bad as kespa.
I thought the word on the street was that blizzard couldn't throw money at BW because of their past agreements with KeSPA, making it so KeSPA had all the rights to hosting BW leagues (i.e. even if blizzard wanted to include BW in their wcs circuit they can't). Obviously there must be some overlap between execs at Afreeca and KeSPA or you know whatever rich south korean execs that made all the money off of eSports. We all know KeSPA were far from saints yet we're letting Afreeca get away with this one sided shit lmao.
Yeah Blizzard's obviously awful, but you can't just look at this PR press release and just mindlessly play into it lmao.
Get your heads out of your asses.
Ah yes, so it is because of Kespa that Blizzard can't throw money at BW, so they demand 100k in fees from Afreeca because reasons? holy fuck I love that you take everything at face value as long as it suits your bias/narrative. The truth is we have no idea what is actually going on and the people working for afreeca are no saints either.
You're basing YOUR stance on what, exactly? Contrarianism?
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Sure, we don't have all the details. A lot of bw fans are still angry after how the transition to Starcraft 2 was handled, but also how remastered was released, filled with bugs and slow updates. It's not far fetched to assume that blizz currently isn't the company promoting bw as an e-sports in the best way.
Either way, whoever's at fault here, it's ridiculous that a 20 year old game that people want to play can't be played properly due to big corporations sucking the life out of it.
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On January 21 2018 01:26 Jealous wrote:Show nested quote +On January 21 2018 01:11 The_Red_Viper wrote:On January 21 2018 01:09 duke91 wrote:On January 21 2018 01:01 .gypsy wrote:
The lack of critical thought in this thread is appalling.
KeSPA most definitely had the same old disgusting corporate business practices as blizzard does now; I wouldn't put it past afreeca either.
You guys really think afreeca's some no-profit revive BW charity like they're presentint themselves to be in this statement. Give me a break probably just as bad as kespa.
I thought the word on the street was that blizzard couldn't throw money at BW because of their past agreements with KeSPA, making it so KeSPA had all the rights to hosting BW leagues (i.e. even if blizzard wanted to include BW in their wcs circuit they can't). Obviously there must be some overlap between execs at Afreeca and KeSPA or you know whatever rich south korean execs that made all the money off of eSports. We all know KeSPA were far from saints yet we're letting Afreeca get away with this one sided shit lmao.
Yeah Blizzard's obviously awful, but you can't just look at this PR press release and just mindlessly play into it lmao.
Get your heads out of your asses.
Ah yes, so it is because of Kespa that Blizzard can't throw money at BW, so they demand 100k in fees from Afreeca because reasons? holy fuck I love that you take everything at face value as long as it suits your bias/narrative. The truth is we have no idea what is actually going on and the people working for afreeca are no saints either. You're basing YOUR stance on what, exactly? Contrarianism?
My stance? That one shouldn't just take everything one side says at face value? Maybe common sense?
I am not saying that blizzard wouldn't ever hurt bw through their actions one way or another (knowingly or not), but it seems reasonable to not just witch hunt one party without having a good idea about the whole situation.
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On January 21 2018 01:26 Jealous wrote:Show nested quote +On January 21 2018 01:11 The_Red_Viper wrote:On January 21 2018 01:09 duke91 wrote:On January 21 2018 01:01 .gypsy wrote:
The lack of critical thought in this thread is appalling.
KeSPA most definitely had the same old disgusting corporate business practices as blizzard does now; I wouldn't put it past afreeca either.
You guys really think afreeca's some no-profit revive BW charity like they're presentint themselves to be in this statement. Give me a break probably just as bad as kespa.
I thought the word on the street was that blizzard couldn't throw money at BW because of their past agreements with KeSPA, making it so KeSPA had all the rights to hosting BW leagues (i.e. even if blizzard wanted to include BW in their wcs circuit they can't). Obviously there must be some overlap between execs at Afreeca and KeSPA or you know whatever rich south korean execs that made all the money off of eSports. We all know KeSPA were far from saints yet we're letting Afreeca get away with this one sided shit lmao.
Yeah Blizzard's obviously awful, but you can't just look at this PR press release and just mindlessly play into it lmao.
Get your heads out of your asses.
Ah yes, so it is because of Kespa that Blizzard can't throw money at BW, so they demand 100k in fees from Afreeca because reasons? holy fuck I love that you take everything at face value as long as it suits your bias/narrative. The truth is we have no idea what is actually going on and the people working for afreeca are no saints either. You're basing YOUR stance on what, exactly? Contrarianism?
What? lol.
He was just suggesting, as I was, a bit more critique in our thoughts.
I mean critique is by definition contrarian, so okay? God forbid.
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when one side stays completely silent, ofcourse they are the ones who get blamed.
especially, when they have caused similar problems in the past.
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Thank you guys for coming in here and preaching about the dangers of speculating on a video game fan forum.
We will all now patiently wait for Blizzards prepared statement.
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On January 21 2018 01:41 The_Red_Viper wrote:Show nested quote +On January 21 2018 01:26 Jealous wrote:On January 21 2018 01:11 The_Red_Viper wrote:On January 21 2018 01:09 duke91 wrote:On January 21 2018 01:01 .gypsy wrote:
The lack of critical thought in this thread is appalling.
KeSPA most definitely had the same old disgusting corporate business practices as blizzard does now; I wouldn't put it past afreeca either.
You guys really think afreeca's some no-profit revive BW charity like they're presentint themselves to be in this statement. Give me a break probably just as bad as kespa.
I thought the word on the street was that blizzard couldn't throw money at BW because of their past agreements with KeSPA, making it so KeSPA had all the rights to hosting BW leagues (i.e. even if blizzard wanted to include BW in their wcs circuit they can't). Obviously there must be some overlap between execs at Afreeca and KeSPA or you know whatever rich south korean execs that made all the money off of eSports. We all know KeSPA were far from saints yet we're letting Afreeca get away with this one sided shit lmao.
Yeah Blizzard's obviously awful, but you can't just look at this PR press release and just mindlessly play into it lmao.
Get your heads out of your asses.
Ah yes, so it is because of Kespa that Blizzard can't throw money at BW, so they demand 100k in fees from Afreeca because reasons? holy fuck I love that you take everything at face value as long as it suits your bias/narrative. The truth is we have no idea what is actually going on and the people working for afreeca are no saints either. You're basing YOUR stance on what, exactly? Contrarianism? My stance? That one shouldn't just take everything one side says at face value? Maybe common sense? I am not saying that blizzard wouldn't ever hurt bw through their actions one way or another (knowingly or not), but it seems reasonable to not just witch hunt one party without having a good idea about the whole situation.
Fact: ASL Season 5 is running behind schedule. ATB has been more or less killed off.
Fact: Blizzard is the root cause of these issues according to the party that held these tournaments without any difficulties prior to Blizzard's involvement.
I truly could not give a flying fuck over the details. Whether or not Blizzard is in the legal right, or whether AfreecaTV has ulterior motives behind this cry for help are matters that can be settled by those who have interest in the inner workings of either Blizzard or AfreecaTV.
The only competitive platform of Brood War is being threatened, and here you are being more concerned over the semantics of exactly how much evidence one needs to feel truly outraged. The most important idea has been shared already: ASL Season 5 is struggling to happen after Blizzard's new found interest in the Brood War scene. We both know how far Blizzard are willing to take things if they don't have things their way.
Outrage may not solve anything. However, mocking people for truly feeling hurt over the potential devastating consequences isn't doing any good either it seems.
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The statement by the Afreeca CEO is vague and I am naturally suspicious of anyone who makes appeals to sentiment or emotion. It's not like Blizzard is helping out by remaining silent though.
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On January 21 2018 02:02 Letmelose wrote:
Fact: ASL Season 5 is running behind schedule. ATB has been more or less killed off.
Fact: Blizzard is the root cause of these issues according to the party that held these tournaments without any difficulties prior to Blizzard's involvement.
hmmm
Listen to be real though I'm not trying to be a Blizzard apologist right. All I'm saying is that you know whoever has/has had their money in KeSPA most definitely has their money in Afreeca. AND what I've heard is that even if Blizzard wanted to host BW as part of their WCS, they wouldn't be able to due to previous negotiations with KeSPA. Now this is as much speculative as about everything that's been said in this thread, but in a world where this is true, people wouldn't be writing fuck blizzard one liners thinking that they're contributing to a discussion, and instead would be outraged at the korean esports corporations.
The bottom line is these are all corporations that are solely interested in their profit margins and don't give a fuck about BW. Blizzard thought SCR could make money in korea, and Afreeca thought they could make money off the ex pros streaming. THE END. What disgusts me is the sentimental, ideological approach Afreeca used, using people that actually give a shit about the game, while masquerading as martyrs of the cause (OH LOOK AT US WE REVIVED BW - BTW THESE ARE THE SAME PEOPLE THAT BASICALLY SLAVE TRADED SOUTH KOREAN KIDS HI KESPA) as a tool to forwarding their corporate agenda,
in this case strong arming blizzard through PR. You're all entitled to being angry but come on don't enable this shit.
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does Michael Morhaime use twitter or anything? there is a slight chance, that he has no idea what's going on and would make a change for the better :[
i'm grasping at straws.
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I don't understand why Blizzard would make SC:R then just drop the ball on it I really like watching the ASL
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On January 21 2018 01:31 StylishVODs wrote:
Sure, we don't have all the details. A lot of bw fans are still angry after how the transition to Starcraft 2 was handled, but also how remastered was released, filled with bugs and slow updates. It's not far fetched to assume that blizz currently isn't the company promoting bw as an e-sports in the best way.
Either way, whoever's at fault here, it's ridiculous that a 20 year old game that people want to play can't be played properly due to big corporations sucking the life out of it.
Honestly the update weren’t slow. There was a patch every week for like the first 12 weeks. The big problem was that it was released way too incomplete. No doubt it was the decision of the business group and not the developers to release the game in such a state. If it had been release in the state it is now then no doubt things would have been much different.
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On January 21 2018 02:34 .gypsy wrote:Show nested quote +On January 21 2018 02:02 Letmelose wrote:
Fact: ASL Season 5 is running behind schedule. ATB has been more or less killed off.
Fact: Blizzard is the root cause of these issues according to the party that held these tournaments without any difficulties prior to Blizzard's involvement.
hmmm Listen to be real though I'm not trying to be a Blizzard apologist right. All I'm saying is that you know whoever has/has had their money in KeSPA most definitely has their money in Afreeca. AND what I've heard is that even if Blizzard wanted to host BW as part of their WCS, they wouldn't be able to due to previous negotiations with KeSPA. Now this is as much speculative as about everything that's been said in this thread, but in a world where this is true, people wouldn't be writing fuck blizzard one liners thinking that they're contributing to a discussion, and instead would be outraged at the korean esports corporations. The bottom line is these are all corporations that are solely interested in their profit margins and don't give a fuck about BW. Blizzard thought SCR could make money in korea, and Afreeca thought they could make money off the ex pros streaming. THE END. What disgusts me is the sentimental, ideological approach Afreeca used, using people that actually give a shit about the game, while masquerading as martyrs of the cause (OH LOOK AT US WE REVIVED BW - BTW THESE ARE THE SAME PEOPLE THAT BASICALLY SLAVE TRADED SOUTH KOREAN KIDS HI KESPA) as a tool to forwarding their corporate agenda, in this case strong arming blizzard through PR. You're all entitled to being angry but come on don't enable this shit.
It seems straightforward enough for me. Unless Blizzard has plans to replace the ASL with a tournament of their own, the existence of the single most important competitive Brood War tournament is under threat after Blizzard's involvement.
That's the reality of the situation. I'm not hearing any plans for a large scale competitive Brood War scene funded by Blizzard in place of what we have currently. What I am hearing instead, are news of ATB Season 3 getting cancelled, ASL Season 5 struggling to take place, and rumours of Blizzard making things more difficult for AfreecaTV to host tournaments than when they weren't involved.
Blizzard has the power to shut down everything, and we have already seen the limits of their mercy. It seems that for whatever reasons, Blizzard seems to be unhappy with the status quo. Resolution either means Blizzard getting what they want, or everything being shut down. Perhaps it will all work out, and AfreecaTV will be able to give Blizzard what they desire. The other side of the coin is that everything people enjoyed so far ends.
Are you content with rolling the dice here while you contemplate how sincere the statement was? We already suffered the loss of ATB. The same dispute that ended ATB could be the one holding up ASL Season 5. Is Blizzard being in the legal right more important than the very existence of the ASL? Is ASL really that disposable in your eyes? What good comes from Blizzard being reasonable with their demands, if both AfreecaTV and Blizzard are no longer willing to host Brood War tournaments at the end of it? For all their faults, at least AfreecaTV sustained competitive Brood War until Blizzard joined the fray.
If the thought of AfreecaTV feigning the role of martyrs angers you more than the current reality of the situation, you clearly have different orders of priority than I do. I truly could not give a flying fuck over who happens to be the most corrupt between KeSPA, AfreecaTV, and Blizzard. I just want to see competitive Brood War happen. That is the thing that comes first for me. People can discuss the legalities, but it's all meaningless for me if we are discussing it standing over the corpse of competitive Brood War.
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On January 21 2018 01:31 StylishVODs wrote:
Sure, we don't have all the details. A lot of bw fans are still angry after how the transition to Starcraft 2 was handled, but also how remastered was released, filled with bugs and slow updates. It's not far fetched to assume that blizz currently isn't the company promoting bw as an e-sports in the best way.
Either way, whoever's at fault here, it's ridiculous that a 20 year old game that people want to play can't be played properly due to big corporations sucking the life out of it.
I want to add that it's not just the state of SCR but the timing of it that is upsetting. ASL3 was an emotional high and things were looking great for the future of pro BW coming back. Then all of the sudden Activision-Blizzard butts their head in again with the release of SCR. And they didn't just offer it as an option to fans, it seems they forced all the Korean PC bangs to convert so as to get more money, and of course the big tournaments converted, I don't know whether forced or not. The future of pro BW looks very much in danger now, and IMO Activision-Blizzard has played a huge role in that.
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On January 21 2018 03:07 Letmelose wrote:Show nested quote +On January 21 2018 02:34 .gypsy wrote:On January 21 2018 02:02 Letmelose wrote:
Fact: ASL Season 5 is running behind schedule. ATB has been more or less killed off.
Fact: Blizzard is the root cause of these issues according to the party that held these tournaments without any difficulties prior to Blizzard's involvement.
hmmm Listen to be real though I'm not trying to be a Blizzard apologist right. All I'm saying is that you know whoever has/has had their money in KeSPA most definitely has their money in Afreeca. AND what I've heard is that even if Blizzard wanted to host BW as part of their WCS, they wouldn't be able to due to previous negotiations with KeSPA. Now this is as much speculative as about everything that's been said in this thread, but in a world where this is true, people wouldn't be writing fuck blizzard one liners thinking that they're contributing to a discussion, and instead would be outraged at the korean esports corporations. The bottom line is these are all corporations that are solely interested in their profit margins and don't give a fuck about BW. Blizzard thought SCR could make money in korea, and Afreeca thought they could make money off the ex pros streaming. THE END. What disgusts me is the sentimental, ideological approach Afreeca used, using people that actually give a shit about the game, while masquerading as martyrs of the cause (OH LOOK AT US WE REVIVED BW - BTW THESE ARE THE SAME PEOPLE THAT BASICALLY SLAVE TRADED SOUTH KOREAN KIDS HI KESPA) as a tool to forwarding their corporate agenda, in this case strong arming blizzard through PR. You're all entitled to being angry but come on don't enable this shit. It seems straightforward enough for me. Unless Blizzard has plans to replace the ASL with a tournament of their own, the existence of the single most important competitive Brood War tournament is under threat after Blizzard's involvement. That's the reality of the situation. I'm not hearing any plans for a large scale competitive Brood War scene funded by Blizzard in place of what we have currently. What I am hearing instead, are news of ATB Season 3 getting cancelled, ASL Season 5 struggling to take place, and rumours of Blizzard making things more difficult for AfreecaTV to host tournaments than when they weren't involved. Blizzard has the power to shut down everything, and we have already seen the limits of their mercy. It seems that for whatever reasons, Blizzard seems to be unhappy with the status quo. Resolution either means Blizzard getting what they want, or everything being shut down. Perhaps it will all work out, and AfreecaTV will be able to give Blizzard what they desire. The other side of the coin is that everything people enjoyed so far ends. Are you content with rolling the dice here while you contemplate how sincere the statement was? We already suffered the loss of ATB. The same dispute that ended ATB could be the one holding up ASL Season 5. Is Blizzard being in the legal right more important than the very existence of the ASL? Is ASL really that disposable in your eyes? What good comes from Blizzard being reasonable with their demands, if both AfreecaTV and Blizzard are no longer willing to host Brood War tournaments at the end of it? For all their faults, at least AfreecaTV sustained competitive Brood War until Blizzard joined the fray. If the thought of AfreecaTV feigning the role of martyrs angers you more than the current reality of the situation, you clearly have different orders of priority than I do. I truly could not give a flying fuck over who happens to be the most corrupt between KeSPA, AfreecaTV, and Blizzard. I just want to see competitive Brood War happen. That is the thing comes first for me. People can discuss the legalities, but it's all meaningless for me if we are discussing it standing over the corpse of competitive Brood War.
completely agree with Letmelose here. I think he nailed the point and it should be a lecture for people who care about the drama more than about the game. By Blizzard Actions we might loose professional Korean Broodwar. That's all that matters to me.
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United States10253 Posts
So here are the actual facts and feel free to contend with some of these but this is how I've viewed everything thus far.
AfreecaTV has come out to say that Blizzard is difficult to work with and putting a lot of difficulty into getting the ASL5.
Blizzard has given no other opinion to state that this is true, nor that this is false. They have had radio silence on us and don't seem interested at all in trying to correct the record or defend themselves.
Therefore, people are more upset at Blizzard because of their lack of transparency into the situation. This on top of the fact that Blizzard has been historically a poor company to work with for these tournaments.
So what happens next? Well, the best way is to have Blizzard come out with their own statement regarding the situation, which is highly doubtful considering they haven't already and I'm not sure they even give a damn about our community. Regardless, right now we're stuck with no ASL5, and a pissed off community.
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EPT
