EPTWhat happened to Moletrap? - Page 5
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Psyonic_Reaver
United States4332 Posts
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404AlphaSquad
839 Posts
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Greth
Belgium318 Posts
On June 02 2017 09:30 404AlphaSquad wrote: Damn reading all of this makes me kind of depressed :/ Well, it was depressing. A lot of us spent several years helping the Starcraft scene and almost none of us got any real return, even the 'good times' barely broke even with the amount of shit we've had to eat back then. Before you know it the plastic SC2 eSport gets off the ground and nobody gives a shit anymore. Websites go down and they take history with them. Facts and events less detailed than in prehistoric times. But hey, its showbizz kid, suck it up and move on. So we did. I remember many months of constantly herding cats trying to get projects off the ground, only for people to flake out and piss off again. And once things starting going well we'd get shit on. I did a weekly tournament for about 6 months or something stupid like that and the second I'd turn my back the cats would scatter and nothing would get done anymore. But that's internet community unpaid volunteer work. Guess I was the idiot because I kept at it. The sad thing is I'm not mad at all of that behind-the-scenes BS anymore, I was at the time. The only rage that remains is the fact that the game that took all that energy and manpower was Starcraft 2. A pile of garbage forced into eSports because corporate Blizzard wanted it to be. The fakeness of the whole thing is what pisses me off. This was never nothing more than children's TV entertainment level. Never in the history of SC2 did the scene ever take itself seriously unless there was talk about money. There was never a step to legitimise the competition and have a competitively viable game - like what Brood War was. But I digress. But do grant me this - everyone seems a LOT happier now that Brood War is coming back. Everyone is relieved that the nightmare is over. BW is a game that can sustain itself, even if it is going to produce a torrent of crying children busting their knees on its sharp corners. At least now we don't have to rely on our own well thought out argumentation based in fact. Now we can show everyone a video that they're wrong to think BW is a bad game. And there is a point to that last rant. We didn't play ball. We talked about Brood War like adults - even if we were silly and rude or arrogant. We talked about Brood War like it was a sport - because it is. But that wasn't allowed in the SC2 world. You needed the children's TV element. The PC executive curated 'HEY KIDS! LET'S WATCH SOME STARCRAFT! NERDS! LOL!' Let us never talk badly about a pro gamer! No! They're connected to sponsors! I'm exaggerating? Perhaps. But somewhere deep down that still nags at the back of my mind. And there is no proof, only one word against another. We weren't marketable enough, a downside when your sport is owned by a company. Anyway... Watch my vids, make me famous, I need the validation to survive. | ||
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valaki
Hungary2476 Posts
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don_kyuhote
3006 Posts
Klazart, Diggity, Moletrap, Cholera, and others I just went and rewatched the Best vs July OSL final commentated by Klaz, Moletrap, and Cholera, my first ever English-cast Korean BW experience. It never gets old, seriously. Good old days. | ||
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States44019 Posts
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FFGenerations
7088 Posts
i remember there was another guy who was soooooooo funny. he was in a group of maybe 6 guys who done a podcast type thing. i only tuned into it once, it was the first podcast i ever heard in my life, i don't remember what it was about but this guy was killing me. anyone remember a super oldschool podcast? | ||
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Antisocialmunky
United States5912 Posts
Speaking of which, does anyone have any of Rise's videos? All his videos got wiped last year. This caused me to archive all of klazart, cholera, moletrap, and violetak channel videos. Are his videos gone forever? :\ Speaking of my little archiving project, what other sc2 channels should I save? | ||
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Psyonic_Reaver
United States4332 Posts
https://www.twitch.tv/heyitskenny I've been meaning to upload it all to YouTube someday on my account. If Kenny would ever answer my emails I'd try to get him to remove the export restrictions. | ||
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cannedbeans
32 Posts
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SlayerS_BunkiE
Canada1706 Posts
They got me hook with bw. | ||
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Muff2n
United Kingdom250 Posts
 .My top was Cholera. I loved how we was so brutal at making fun of Hyuk who always seemed to drop the ball in his videos. But then Hyuk managed an all kill and he swore that he was now a believer and became a Hyuk fan. Man that was a funny series to watch! | ||
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JungleTerrain
Chile799 Posts
On June 03 2017 07:15 Muff2n wrote: I didn't realise the hate casters were getting. I will make an effort to write something positive to people who create youtube videos that I enjoy in the future. I've seen videos from pretty much all of the casters mentioned here. I definitely liked some more than others but I would still watch other casters when they had a match that I wanted to see (aka all the matches .My top was Cholera. I loved how we was so brutal at making fun of Hyuk who always seemed to drop the ball in his videos. But then Hyuk managed an all kill and he swore that he was now a believer and became a Hyuk fan. Man that was a funny series to watch! lol I remember the hyuk shenanigans | ||
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Lebesgue
4542 Posts
People were using a verb "to get Hyuk'ed" which, I think, meant that somebody surprisingly lost when he was supposed to win ezpz. | ||
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ortseam
996 Posts
On June 03 2017 02:57 Antisocialmunky wrote: Speaking of which, does anyone have any of Rise's videos? I've found his "recent" videos here, but you're probably looking for the old ones. | ||
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aRyuujin
United States5049 Posts
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Psyonic_Reaver
United States4332 Posts
On June 03 2017 10:05 aRyuujin wrote: not a giant fan of moletrap (idk his voice or something just bothered me) This was the stuff we disliked most. We can't do anything about our voice. Why post it at all? If you say, "Hey. I listened to a few of your videos, your style just not for me yet keep it up because it seems like there are others that do enjoy it!" We can let it go. But back then I used to freak out. I tried talking deeper, farther away, etc. Finally I just said fuck it and stayed with my normal voice because what the fuck is this high school again. If you don't like my voice fuck off. I'm not attacking you personally Ryuu but your type of comments that were an attack on us personally and not our work was just a really low blow that we couldn't begin to even try and fix. Like Rainman said, he got so much shit for his lisp that nobody would try to give good, honest feedback. Heck, I even had plenty of people who would go. "Psy. You're bad at commentating because you got X and Y wrong." and some casters would take that poorly but I would generally go "WHY?" I would PM people back. I would dig down and try to correct my poor analysis. I wanted to be better, I wanted to learn at WHICH point did I call or say the strat wrong. I want to be informative. I remember the EG guys just giving me tons of shit early on when I first started doing Yankee League that I got fed up and actually brought them on my stream to co-commentate. They actually started EXPLAINING things. It's great to have passion but I agree, you need to have the knowledge too. So yes they called me bad but they took the time to give honest feedback. You don't hear baseball commentators going. OH YEAH ITS A SLOW BALL when clearly it's a fast ball. Granted it's harder to point out poor analysis in StarCraft quite that easily but you get my point. If you're going to criticize, that's fine. Just give MORE than just "You suck" or "you're bad" because it's just frustrating. | ||
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hasuterrans
United States614 Posts
In hopes that some of them see this thread I just want to say thanks for all the casts. You guys are awesome. | ||
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supernovamaniac
United States3046 Posts
On June 03 2017 11:23 Psyonic_Reaver wrote: If you're going to criticize, that's fine. Just give MORE than just "You suck" or "you're bad" because it's just frustrating. Only thing I ask of people when they want to criticize something. | ||
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Diggity
United States806 Posts
Thought I would chime in on a couple of things. I will try to answer questions in a manner that makes cohesive sense. It is late for me and I am super fatigued so apologies for bad grammar or mispellings. Why did I start commentating broodwar? Klazart had stopped and no one else was stepping up to the plate in the community. I was watching games with friends during one of GGPlays run's and found that I was able to explain the game well enough for them to follow. For context I was never a professional at any level like say Day9, Artosis, Tasteless, or Incontrol. Prior to that era, the last time I had dedicated time to BW competitively spawning pools were 150. Among a small group I was considered the best but nothing that meant nothing in comparison to the competitive scene even at an amateur level. I figured I would still be able to get by. I studied up on the players and tried my best. I quickly found out I was in over my head. At that time people loudly criticized my lack of game knowledge which was warranted, but by the same token they generally did little to provide help. I realized later it was because most couldn't. What was going on in the threat moktira is talking about? [note] My memory of the events around that particular time are somewhat hazy. That being said, I trust moktira's accounts of the events. [/note] I don't remember posting a thread asking for feedback in particular. I do remember asking for feed back at large and getting mixed results. I DO remember a particularly heated thread that more or less contained e-peen threats. The general message from TL at the time to the entire youtube community was "quit". I ask that people try to empathize and imagine being a total social reject (it felt awful). I seriously considered quitting but I didn't think it would benefit the community at large. So instead I made a series of personal goals Keep going: 1) Until someone with a pedigree started posting regularly to the community at large 2) Until US/Foreign players were "competitive" with Korean players (not beating but respectable) 3) Until legitimate tournaments were running in the US. 1) Happened with Day9 (which I saw miles off after Socal lan II) 2) Happened with SC2 which is a half win but I will take it 3) Happened with NASL On "the hate" I always had a reputation of lacking knowledge. While I am still not a pro player, I definitely felt that after a year and 1/2 or so my knowledge was sufficient for casting. On my later casts I was given kudos by G5 for being in his head and generally being solid on my commentary at large. G5 was one of the few US pros that watched a few of my commentaries as I progressed. Overall G5 was probably the most helpful to me both in advice on games early on and in providing a voice that let me know I was on the right track. If nothing else I want to say that he is an upstanding dude. I quickly discovered that most people in the community don't know as much as they purport to know, and there is a touchy ego about it. I remember during one specific instance, I was watching louder play during the early days of streaming. I pointed out (via his fog of war view) that he had the game locked. Several people who had torn into me during previous threads claiming superior knowledge disagreed. Within 3 minutes the opponent gged and the replay confirmed all my claims. After that I realized there was no escaping the "lack of knowledge" label without getting A+ on ICCUP or taking down a US national championship, but at the same time the community hate didn't faze me after awhile. The real hate As much vitriol there was in the forums, there was an immense amount of back stabbing, lying, rage, hate and venom behind the scenes that surpassed it all. At a certain point whenever I think about coming back, I feel there is an overshadowing ill feeling in my stomach regarding the bad times. I can think of 4 moments in particular that really took the wind out of my sails: 1) SC2GG staff leaving to be TL admins (right as we were delivering content on a strong cycle) 2) NASL-TL-EG-Reddit divide as SC2 was picking up steam (this spun the community into the muck pretty fast) 3) The failure of ultimate barcraft, in particular the organizer lying to me about assurances of particular guests who agreed to be in attendance. There are several other aspects but I don't think I am prepared to talk about them. I will just say it takes the cake. 4) The poor treatment of a friend putting in a lot of effort in small arenas [note] I felt it was important to note the problems above as I always felt that the following problems were crippling to the community at large: 1) Low level/local contributors were often overlooked/abused and 2) Community divisions were rampant heated and vicious. [/note] Reflections At some point shortly after SC2 release I realized that I had accomplished all of my goals. After casting for NASL, I mostly spent my time in the background trying to create financial viability for the scene via barcraft and other efforts. Then #3/4 above happened and I had a hard time staying motivated. Considering all the work in the starcraft community was essentially a non/low-paying second job and I wasn't really contributing anything of value I decided to drop off quietly into the shadows. Even at my most optimistic, I believe the community at large really wanted/needed casters with a better pedigree than I could provide. For die hard fans, I played/casted league (to relax after work) and eventually due to increased work demands, I just stopped producing media altogether. I am fairly proud of the mark I made on the scene. I feel like I influenced a great number of people in very positive ways. I made a lot of great friends and met amazing people that I will never forget. I helped esports and twitch get up off the ground and enter a new era. I definitely feel like I helped pioneer things, and for a time I was the "bar" of commentators which is saying something. What am I up to now? I am currently a full stack engineer, working primarily on web based medical systems. Will I ever come back? I would need things to calm down at work. I do want to see another Socal Lan happen for the HD Broodwar release. If I did come back I am not sure I would do broodwar content again. I feel like there are a lot of guys that already have it covered, most notably, Artosis and Tasteless. Also sorry if this is pulling this thread out from the grave, I wasn't told about it until about 2 hours ago. | ||
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