EPTDay[9] talks Brood War hype, plans for new series - Page 3
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DickMcFanny
Ireland1076 Posts
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coolprogrammingstuff
906 Posts
On April 15 2017 20:44 Cele wrote: True. It is the same stunt Tasteless and Artosis pulled when they started casting Broodwar again. All of the 'celebrities' that were big in broodwar and switched to Sc2 and now switch back have this issue. Many of them said "Broodwar is the greatest game ever" and then "Sc2 is the greatest game ever". Which can be fine, you know? You like Broodwar best and then you switch to the sequel because you like it better. But then coming back to the old game and hyping it again as "best Esports in the history of mankind" or comparable bullshit has to give you the impression that there's some hypocrisy. I had that sentiment very early on with Tastosis after they started casting ASL and i imagine it should be pretty obvious at this point for everybody. At this point, it's not about grudge or anything for me anymore. I just like to have casters who are sincere in their enthusiasm about the game they cast. Who don't go hyperbole and who don't use the superlative when they don't mean it. I'd be fine with, let's say Tasteless saying" Broodwar is a great game, tho i personally like Game XY more." If that's an honest sentiment, it's more meaningful to me then what they cater to us. I think what fucked me off more is when SC2 first came out the fact that BW was still ongoing was masked to outsiders watching starcraft for the first time, and the fact that no, nobody really cared about fruitdealer and nestea at the time. I just wish it didn't feel like they were being as deceptive to try and market the game. I totally agree in general. I think Tasteless doesn't overtly say what you've said about BW being a great game/sc2 etc - but I think he's more so the reverse. For al lot of casters, I wouldn't be surprised if that's true. I think Artosis would be somewhere 50/50 and liking both for equal reasons. | ||
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Broodwar4lyf
304 Posts
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Liquid`Ret
Netherlands4511 Posts
Day9, tasteless, artosis, all these other people that get critiziced for the strangest things, had been playing BW, fueled by passion for over a decade by the time SC2 came out and all these oppurtunities to make a living came along. SC2 is a great game too, it's the most modern RTS out there and it's created a lot of epic moments/gameplay on really big platforms and since it came out Esports has only grown each year.... But for people who literally grew up with brood war, and loved it so much that they travelled the world to play tournaments, and grasp at straws just to be able to do anything for the game they loved, you should only be happy they are coming back at the first chance they get to experience this game again in modern times. For years, there was hardly a playerbase left, Brood War didn't run well on modern pc's and there were definitely not any tournaments. It was really difficult to come back to try and play that in a completly dead scene, compared to sc2 which had tournaments every month, and wasn't a bad game to begin with. SC:Remastered is ensuring that there might be a competitive environment for BW again, And I hope to see everyone come back and play because it's going to be fucking awesome. Those people we all grew up with while playing the game with and against each other, they are friends. Throughout the years everyone went their own way, a lot of people in sc2 or other esports related jobs, and a lot of people in academic carreers or other 'real world' carreers. A lot of us lost touch. I look forward to play with all my friends again in a game that all of us love...That's the most exciting part about all of this. Even though i've played SC2 for 6 years, for me personally, it was never the same as BW. I had a really good time travelling, competing, playing countless tournaments everywhere. Being part of such a highly competitive scene was really fun, no matter what the game was. In the first few years the entire WC3 scene and BW scene came together and everyone tried their best at this new game, it was exciting as hell. Competition is a huge part for anyone who gets into difficult RTS games to try and improve himself. So it didn't matter that the game was sometimes stale, lots of great games were happening too in SC2. But it could never compare to the pure love you felt when you were a child trying to play BW and create art.. | ||
Liquid`Jinro
Sweden33719 Posts
On April 15 2017 21:23 Shock710 wrote: Its like people arent allowed to like more than one game...day9 did what almost every single bw personality in the scene did, switch to sc2 (even the pros had to follow after blizzard killed competitive bw) hes not just some dude who works an average day job and comes home to play bw or w/e. The esports that he followed and made content for died for a while and in that time he had followed its predecessor hoping for a new and potentially exciting game with roots from his favourite game. Then i guess he lost interest in sc2 because of w/e reasons and stated that he just wanted to chill and play games on stream with his fanbase. How is that not completely fine? he even tweeted that he often watched asl and broodwar leagues like the sonic starleague and etc. What did you want him to do, parade around on all social media at the first sign of bw coming back saying thank god i left sc2 i fucken love bw please forgive me if i ever left...like wtf, some of you guys are completely unreasonable. Its fucken day9 he did more for bw than 99% of the people on TL and by a huge margin. You do not get to go "oh he enjoyed another game for a period of time, thus he can never come back to the game that i play" There shouldnt be any negativity about this. Couldn't have said it any better, this amount of negativity is a bit sad to see... | ||
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Cele
Germany4016 Posts
On April 15 2017 21:55 Liquid`Ret wrote: I dunno how people can fault anyone for moving to SC2 from BW.. Day9, tasteless, artosis, all these other people that get critiziced for the strangest things, had been playing BW, fueled by passion for over a decade by the time SC2 came out and all these oppurtunities to make a living came along. SC2 is a great game too, it's the most modern RTS out there and it's created a lot of epic moments/gameplay on really big platforms and since it came out Esports has only grown each year.... But for people who literally grew up with brood war, and loved it so much that they travelled the world to play tournaments, and grasp at straws just to be able to do anything for the game they loved, you should only be happy they are coming back at the first chance they get to experience this game again. For years, there was hardly a playerbase left, Brood War didn't run well on modern pc's and there were definitely not any tournaments. It was really difficult to come back to try and play that in a completly dead scene, compared to sc2 which had tournaments every month, and wasn't a bad game to begin with. SC:Remastered is ensuring that there might be a competitive environment for BW again, And I hope to see everyone come back and play because it's going to be fucking awesome. Those people we all grew up with throughout the game, they are friends. Throughout the years everyone went their own way and a lot of us lost touch. I look forward to play with all my friends again...That's really the most exciting part about all of this. i didn't fault them for coming back to Broodwar, i'd never would. I was a great fan of all those mentioned, i still am. I was a great fan of yours too by the way. I talked about hypocrisy. About statements that contradict each other, saying in one phrase "Broodwar is the greatest game ever" then Starcraft 2, then same back again. I understand that for a good deal. Being a professional caster brings along certain necessities, also the necessity to produce a lot of hype. Still it leaves me with a feeling of being unauthentic i cannot completely shake off. By comparison, you are right. Broodwar was dead. But it wasn't objectivly. We had major tournaments in the west with prize pools, glory and all the good things from the past. We tried to keep it going. I tried to keep it going. And tho my part might be very small, i knew how much time and effort i put in and and others who put in way more. I was here in the "dark times" between hybrid proleague up until the most recent amouncement of SC:R. I knew the people who ran Gambit Cups, Team Liquid Leagcy Starleague, ICCup Nation League, defiler tours, esports-betting.pro Nationleague and countless dozens other events. I know the people who casted all the SSL's in english when nobody was around to do it professional. I know the admins who ran ICCup with no ressources, who moderated Teamliquid with little help, who held together the russian, polish, german, american, latin american player base. I know the coders who made the plugins and updates so we could play. Yes it was nothing compared to Starcraft 2, we had no financial backing or sponsor interest. Yet we did it in our free time, after studying, after working, with our own money as pirze, with or self written scripts for software. These people made it possible that SC:R was met by a small, yet existing player base of fans. Not Artosis, not Day9. Don't misunderstand me. Nobody is more glad to see them back then me. I was the biggest fanboy the world ever saw, it makes me genuinly happy to reply to a post of yours in 2017. Seeing Artosis making a camcorder video of your run at Courage on Korea was the greatest for me. I was in grief when Tyler beat Dissy in TSL 2. Yet, i feel i am entitled to a opinion in these matters. | ||
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fabiano
Brazil4644 Posts
Day9 passion for BW sprouts from his eyes whenever he talks about it, I can see it very clearly. Besides, let's all forget about SC2, let's all enjoy BW as a whole. Forget SC2 ever existed, at least during the time we enjoy BW! I don`t mean it to diminish SC2, even though I throughly dislike SC2, from bottom up. All I mean is: let's enjoy BW. | ||
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Freezard
Sweden1012 Posts
I think Tastosis stopped saying "x is the best game ever" btw, they're basically saying both SCs are the best games ever and can coexist side-by-side nowadays. I think Artosis likes SC2 way more than Tasteless does though. | ||
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LRM)TechnicS
Bulgaria1565 Posts
What I am completely not okay with though is praising his tweets throughout the years as BW content. Sure, it might had spread the popularity of the old game a bit. But I think there's nothing that stopped him from providing an indepth analysis of a game or a series of games that he really really liked say once or twice a year. I mean there were amazing tournament and streamed games out there already to pick from already even before Bisu returned. This or anything BW related. My impression is that he mostly streamed playing anything but BW as well. Some games every 3 months wouldn't have hurt either. Someone more knowledgeable of his streams content might want to fill me in on whether I am correct here or not as I am not a frequent watcher of his streams. | ||
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raff100
498 Posts
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neptunusfisk
2286 Posts
On April 15 2017 21:24 DickMcFanny wrote: I'm assuming those people who shit on Day9 for switching to SC2 are boycotting Flash and Jaedong now? Exactly what I'm thinking. And Bisu, Effort, Stork, Best, Zero, Soulkey, Rain, Last, Jangbi and basically every pro in the scene | ||
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neptunusfisk
2286 Posts
On April 15 2017 23:24 LRM)TechnicS wrote: What I am completely not okay with though is praising his tweets throughout the years as BW content. Sure, it might had spread the popularity of the old game a bit. But I think there's nothing that stopped him from providing an indepth analysis of a game or a series of games that he really really liked say once or twice a year. I mean there were amazing tournament and streamed games out there already to pick from already even before Bisu returned. This or anything BW related. Except that he had a full-time job and felt he had said everything he had to say and felt burned out by starcraft to the point where he didn't even do any SC2 content? I think you have very sensible and nuanced opinions | ||
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GeckoXp
Germany2016 Posts
On April 15 2017 21:55 Liquid`Ret wrote: Day9, tasteless, artosis, all these other people that get critiziced for the strangest things, had been playing BW, fueled by passion for over a decade by the time SC2 came out and all these oppurtunities to make a living came along. My response would basically be what Cele tried to describe. I don't care if they went and made a living by casting/promoting Hello Kitty Island Adventure MOBA Superstars. I don't care about their games, I don't care if they earn money by that. Good for them, it doesn't hurt me. However, it still became a huge problem over time, especially with the rise of "eSports" in combination with the ridiculous attitude the start up scene comes along. I love Brood War and parts of the community because of their genuine love. Having played video games in the early 2000s meant to be a sort of outcast. This is the sole reason the offline events were so great (e.g. the one you attented in Düsseldorf), or any small clan meet up. You met with people thinking alike, with the driving factor being the game itself, nothing surrounding it. Nowadays everyone has to follow on twitter (btw follow @Liquidret, this LP meme has to be in), Facebook, Twitch (with its retarded smilies) and whatnot. And that's what Day9 and Artosis are to me now: Symbols of a trend I really do not identify with at all. It's about sitting and watching something hyped up with no real goal. It feels more like a series of advertisments with little to no content, the more screaming involved, the better. Compared to their really great moments, e.g. the cast of CombatEx, it's an empty shell of what used to be. Some of us who truely tried to keep the game going with no resources whatsoever can't really understand that. Moreover, everytime anything of the new "esports pyramide inc. concept" was tried to be copied, it went to shit and caused needless drama. So, forgive me, but: If they come back with their new professional attitude, they could as well stay off. Yet, if they/Day9 comes back and forgoes all that bullcrap, I'm more than happy to follow whatever shows he does. I remain highly sceptic that he'll be able to convince me though. | ||
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LRM)TechnicS
Bulgaria1565 Posts
On April 15 2017 21:55 Liquid`Ret wrote: ... For years, there was hardly a playerbase left, Brood War didn't run well on modern pc's and there were definitely not any tournaments. It was really difficult to come back to try and play that in a completly dead scene, compared to sc2 which had tournaments every month, and wasn't a bad game to begin with. ... I am sorry but the statement that "there were definitely not any tournaments" is half wrong. There were many online sponsored tournaments pre 2014 such as the weekly defiler tournaments, the ISLs, TLS, GGnet Cups and others. In terms of BW history, I think the amount of these online sponsored tournaments perhaps surpasses any period you choose from before the release of SC2. I admit that compared to SC2, the number of sponsored tournaments was lower and the prizepools was smaller. But compared to BW itself there were plenty. The statemement is half right because there were, unfortunately, indeed no major international LAN events outside Korea for BW. But still, if we are talking 2010-2014 I am sure that you could have labeled the scene in this sentence in a more respectful manner. On April 15 2017 21:55 Liquid`Ret wrote: ... SC:Remastered is ensuring that there might be a competitive environment for BW again, And I hope to see everyone come back and play because it's going to be fucking awesome. Those people we all grew up with while playing the game with and against each other, they are friends. Throughout the years everyone went their own way, a lot of people in sc2 or other esports related jobs, and a lot of people in academic carreers or other 'real world' carreers. A lot of us lost touch. I look forward to play with all my friends again in a game that all of us love...That's the most exciting part about all of this. ... If this possibility materializes it will be fun for a while, but I personally don't like the trend of "old names returning only". In and outside of Korea that is. It will be better long-term to have new chogosus emerging. Another problem will be that with the newly emerged interest, there might be people that want to circumvent the rules of the game and to develop tools that will be considered unfair for use for the competitive scene. There will always be that doubt in me - does this new guy really have it or does he maphack/have macro keys or whatever? | ||
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LRM)TechnicS
Bulgaria1565 Posts
On April 15 2017 23:37 neptunusfisk wrote: Except that he had a full-time job and felt he had said everything he had to say and felt burned out by starcraft to the point where he didn't even do any SC2 content? I think you have very sensible and nuanced opinions I really don't see anything that stopped him from playing a game or two of BW once or twice a year on stream, or making an analysis of a BW game he really really liked after watching throughout all these years. | ||
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palexhur
Colombia730 Posts
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-Kuya
Australia20 Posts
On April 16 2017 00:18 LRM)TechnicS wrote: I really don't see anything that stopped him from playing a game or two of BW once or twice a year on stream, or making an analysis of a BW game he really really liked after watching throughout all these years. As far as "anything BW related every now and then" he actually had a video 8 months ago explaining BW pathfinding to demonstrate the game's depth, and why SC2 felt lacking in that sense. Regardless, it seems petty (at least) to hold someone for not being involved with something and implying they don't care/are hypocrites because of it. Anyone's perception of "the best game ever" (and their time spent on it) will surely change overtime, so why does it really matter that it was SC2 at one point and now it's back to BW? | ||
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CobaltBlu
United States919 Posts
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DickMcFanny
Ireland1076 Posts
On April 16 2017 00:45 CobaltBlu wrote: Kind of sad to see the BW community putting old community members to the purity test. SC2 gave those guys careers No, that's unforgivable. No real BW fan would ever succumb to that. Now excuse me, I'm going to watch Flash and Jaedong and Julyzerg and Nada, you know, the loyalists. | ||
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N0
154 Posts
On April 15 2017 21:55 Liquid`Ret wrote: SC2 is a great game too, it's the most modern RTS out there and it's created a lot of epic moments/gameplay on really big platforms and since it came out Esports has only grown each year.... A handful of hideous decisions made it not so great. Those healthbars for units which aren't selected could've stayed hidden EASILY. But they had to make it so that if you disable them you handicap yourself, didn't they. Well that's hideous on so many levels, it's like a fractal of hideousness weaving its hideous self through our dimensions of spacetime, what's above and below it. It's like a fly carrying some disease in your soup, with a 1/4 chance to transmit it to you orally if you choose to eat the soup after you've removed the fly, or a 1/2 chance if you eat the fly as well. And it's not even like the fly accidentally wound up in the soup .. the fucking chef put it there! Unlimited unit and building selection? Dumb. Limit that shit ffs. 2, 3 buildings tops, in one selection, and 24 units. EASY! Almost minute, but makes a world of difference, but nOoo. -_- | ||
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