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On April 12 2017 22:58 RedW4rr10r wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2017 21:43 Cascade wrote:On April 12 2017 21:21 InfCereal wrote:
I wish I could show you all how hard updating legacy programs actually is.
Programming is largely creative work, so when you have to update, or understand something one guy wrote 20 years ago, who has since retired or moved on... It's not easy at all. Ever. Agreed. Also, they do the test realm to find and fix these issues, so that the actual release will be smoother. People need to realise that when you get onto a test realm, you have to expect issues like this. That's what "test" means. If you want to play as usual, stay on live and wait for release. And even at release you can expect issues at the start. Well, for me these kind of things like /f m etc seem to be basic and not as hard to manage compared to fixing connection issues or in game bugs or whatever. I really can't imagine this is something hard to do. I know this is a test but things like these should be working. (Again, I no nothing about programming). Edit: I highly doubt there are noob programmers working for Blizzard so I guess one can expect at least the interaction between players on the server should be working with first release or at least the first update after.
- you think it should be easy, but you also say that you don't know anything about programming.
- you are pretty convinced that they are not noob programmers at blizz.
Wouldn't the logical conclusion of those two be that this probably isn't as easy as you think? I know it's hard to conclude that your intuition is off, but if you don't know anything about programming, then there is no shame in revising your views on it.
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On April 13 2017 00:36 Cascade wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2017 22:58 RedW4rr10r wrote:On April 12 2017 21:43 Cascade wrote:On April 12 2017 21:21 InfCereal wrote:
I wish I could show you all how hard updating legacy programs actually is.
Programming is largely creative work, so when you have to update, or understand something one guy wrote 20 years ago, who has since retired or moved on... It's not easy at all. Ever. Agreed. Also, they do the test realm to find and fix these issues, so that the actual release will be smoother. People need to realise that when you get onto a test realm, you have to expect issues like this. That's what "test" means. If you want to play as usual, stay on live and wait for release. And even at release you can expect issues at the start. Well, for me these kind of things like /f m etc seem to be basic and not as hard to manage compared to fixing connection issues or in game bugs or whatever. I really can't imagine this is something hard to do. I know this is a test but things like these should be working. (Again, I no nothing about programming). Edit: I highly doubt there are noob programmers working for Blizzard so I guess one can expect at least the interaction between players on the server should be working with first release or at least the first update after. - you think it should be easy, but you also say that you don't know anything about programming. - you are pretty convinced that they are not noob programmers at blizz. Wouldn't the logical conclusion of those two be that this probably isn't as easy as you think? I know it's hard to conclude that your intuition is off, but if you don't know anything about programming, then there is no shame in revising your views on it.
The thing is that fixing connection issues or things/bugs that make the game crash or whatever is harder to fix than implementing a function that you can chat with other people via good old /f m etc.
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It's interesting that you make all these claims even though you "have no idea about programming" 
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On April 13 2017 01:35 The_Red_Viper wrote:It's interesting that you make all these claims even though you "have no idea about programming"
Well, then just tell me if it's hard or not. All people here who replied to me didn't say anything concrete on what exactly is so hard to fix /f commands or connection issues or whatever bugs have occurred so far and/or which of these issues are rather easy or rather hard to fix.
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The explanation why it is hard is on this very page, a few posts up.
As someone already mentioned, changing legacy code, and adding new things without breaking old features while keeping some of them is very very hard, intensive and often riddled with bugs at the start.
It seems easy to you, because you don't know how it works in the background and how it's all interconnected/inter-dependent.
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End of PTR.
https://us.battle.net/forums/en/starcraft/topic/20754155641
Greetings Pioneers,
Blizzard would like to thank our dedicated Commanders, Cerebrates, and Executors who have participated in the PTR.
For being vocal on these and other forums; for adding to the data we used to analyze and fix problems; for pioneering to discover if our myriad changes would change gameplay; we salute your efforts to ensure an epic product for the wider community.
Your input has introduced ideas that we will discuss and implement in the coming months, and helped resolve a few we were on the fence about.
One, in particular, was the rebinding of hotkeys. We released the work-in-progress version you used to gauge sentiment, and garner feedback on what should or should not be included in such a feature. We're reviewing all the input - and will come to a resolution in the future - but will not release hotkey rebinding with 1.18.
Though we're bringing down the PTR, the dialogue does not end. We look forward to our continued collaboration on this game that we all hold so dear.
Cheers,
Classic Games
So the F in the "PTR F" update was for Final, after all.
I'm not home, but I assume PTR is not working anymore? They could have at least given a day's notice.
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Hello i want to know how you dezipp because i dont succes to have a version executable .exe for the iccup launcher
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On April 13 2017 04:34 quirinus wrote:End of PTR. https://us.battle.net/forums/en/starcraft/topic/20754155641Show nested quote +Greetings Pioneers,
Blizzard would like to thank our dedicated Commanders, Cerebrates, and Executors who have participated in the PTR.
For being vocal on these and other forums; for adding to the data we used to analyze and fix problems; for pioneering to discover if our myriad changes would change gameplay; we salute your efforts to ensure an epic product for the wider community.
Your input has introduced ideas that we will discuss and implement in the coming months, and helped resolve a few we were on the fence about.
One, in particular, was the rebinding of hotkeys. We released the work-in-progress version you used to gauge sentiment, and garner feedback on what should or should not be included in such a feature. We're reviewing all the input - and will come to a resolution in the future - but will not release hotkey rebinding with 1.18.
Though we're bringing down the PTR, the dialogue does not end. We look forward to our continued collaboration on this game that we all hold so dear.
Cheers,
Classic Games So the F in the "PTR F" update was for Final, after all. I'm not home, but I assume PTR is not working anymore? They could have at least given a day's notice.
That's.... interesting. I wonder if this means that 1.18 comes out tomorrow? I feel like that's being wayyy too optimistic
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No hotkey rebinding? God damnit, that was the main selling point.
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I want to play on iccup but i succes to install the launcher and i dont found the fish server in multiplayer is it normal?
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My guess on the hotkey rebinding: The GUI for rebinding the hotkeys was, quite frankly, awful. There was no specific order for units/buildings, it couldn't be divided by races, there were no presets you could choose from (grid), there were units that aren't even in the game, and other issues. My guess is that they would rather work on it and have it look nice for when Remastered comes out as opposed to the version we have now.
As far as "garner feedback on what should or should not be included in such a feature", my guess is that they're referring to remapping location hotkeys / control groups and adding new location hotkeys, since these were heavy points of contention on here and on the Battle.net forums.
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On April 13 2017 03:42 RedW4rr10r wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2017 01:35 The_Red_Viper wrote:It's interesting that you make all these claims even though you "have no idea about programming" Well, then just tell me if it's hard or not. All people here who replied to me didn't say anything concrete on what exactly is so hard to fix /f commands or connection issues or whatever bugs have occurred so far and/or which of these issues are rather easy or rather hard to fix.
As someone with some programming knowledge (this is what you wanted right?)
We don't know the full scope of things around here. Nobody here has the source code or is working directly with Blizzard to fix things. Maybe the fix is just adding one line of code, or adding a whole new function to make things better. Maybe things weren't as optimized well in the code, or they just used a server that isn't powerful enough to accommodate everyone for PTR. And who knows what new bugs it would introduce? Adding one line of code can break the entire program if doesn't interact well with the old code (and given SC is 19 years old, I wouldn't be surprised if most of their time spent was working on making sure that everything was coded well and cleaning up unnecessary/hacky code).
We don't know which issues/bugs are easier/harder to fix. Stop assuming that just because things are simple on the surface, that it should be an easy fix on Blizzard's end.
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Hmm I just logged on and I can still play. Guess this just means that the patch will release soon.
As for the programming discussion:
Usually things get assigned different priorities with game breaking issues (lag, crashes) having high priority and quality of live stuff (chat commands) getting lower priority. The classic team only consist of about 20 people and not all of them are programmers. What few people they have are probably making sure that the game runs well before they implement some chat features. Especially given that we are talking about a ptr. This thing is primarily there to find bugs and get some general feedback on new features, I think they understand what people want from chat commands, but there is no big incentive to implement them now when they could spend their time tweaking netcode etc. and getting feedback on that.
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I'm surprised that they're reconsidering implementing custom hotkeys because I didn't think the outcry against it was strong enough.
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On April 13 2017 05:06 GoShox wrote:
My guess on the hotkey rebinding: The GUI for rebinding the hotkeys was, quite frankly, awful. There was no specific order for units/buildings, it couldn't be divided by races, there were no presets you could choose from (grid), there were units that aren't even in the game, and other issues. My guess is that they would rather work on it and have it look nice for when Remastered comes out as opposed to the version we have now.
As far as "garner feedback on what should or should not be included in such a feature", my guess is that they're referring to remapping location hotkeys / control groups and adding new location hotkeys, since these were heavy points of contention on here and on the Battle.net forums. How hard is it to make a more polished GUI for hotkeys? I guess they're on a very strict time table, thats...a bit disconcerting.
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On April 13 2017 05:09 Dazed_Spy wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2017 05:06 GoShox wrote:
My guess on the hotkey rebinding: The GUI for rebinding the hotkeys was, quite frankly, awful. There was no specific order for units/buildings, it couldn't be divided by races, there were no presets you could choose from (grid), there were units that aren't even in the game, and other issues. My guess is that they would rather work on it and have it look nice for when Remastered comes out as opposed to the version we have now.
As far as "garner feedback on what should or should not be included in such a feature", my guess is that they're referring to remapping location hotkeys / control groups and adding new location hotkeys, since these were heavy points of contention on here and on the Battle.net forums. How hard is it to make a more polished GUI for hotkeys? I guess they're on a very strict time table, thats...a bit disconcerting.
If I'm right (I may very well not be), they might think it's better to polish it for Remastered, when the bulk of new players will be coming, as opposed to holding up 1.18 just for it.
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On April 13 2017 05:09 Dazed_Spy wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2017 05:06 GoShox wrote:
My guess on the hotkey rebinding: The GUI for rebinding the hotkeys was, quite frankly, awful. There was no specific order for units/buildings, it couldn't be divided by races, there were no presets you could choose from (grid), there were units that aren't even in the game, and other issues. My guess is that they would rather work on it and have it look nice for when Remastered comes out as opposed to the version we have now.
As far as "garner feedback on what should or should not be included in such a feature", my guess is that they're referring to remapping location hotkeys / control groups and adding new location hotkeys, since these were heavy points of contention on here and on the Battle.net forums. How hard is it to make a more polished GUI for hotkeys? I guess they're on a very strict time table, thats...a bit disconcerting.
Someone datamined, and I would (kinda carefully) say that GUI isn't as complicated. I would imagine that most of the challenges come from actually implementing the hotkey rebinds for the game. However, GUI isn't the only thing that they are reviewing on (camera hotkeys for example), and since we don't know how its coded in original source code, it may take some time for these other things to be implemented. And from looks of things, they don't want to deliver the current hotkey rebind if they're planning to make a better version of it in the end.
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Hello i succes to found the version .exe in iccup launcher but it instanly crash can you give me tips to resolve this problem please?
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On April 13 2017 04:32 quirinus wrote:
The explanation why it is hard is on this very page, a few posts up.
As someone already mentioned, changing legacy code, and adding new things without breaking old features while keeping some of them is very very hard, intensive and often riddled with bugs at the start.
It seems easy to you, because you don't know how it works in the background and how it's all interconnected/inter-dependent.
On April 13 2017 05:06 supernovamaniac wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2017 03:42 RedW4rr10r wrote:On April 13 2017 01:35 The_Red_Viper wrote:It's interesting that you make all these claims even though you "have no idea about programming" Well, then just tell me if it's hard or not. All people here who replied to me didn't say anything concrete on what exactly is so hard to fix /f commands or connection issues or whatever bugs have occurred so far and/or which of these issues are rather easy or rather hard to fix. As someone with some programming knowledge (this is what you wanted right?) We don't know the full scope of things around here. Nobody here has the source code or is working directly with Blizzard to fix things. Maybe the fix is just adding one line of code, or adding a whole new function to make things better. Maybe things weren't as optimized well in the code, or they just used a server that isn't powerful enough to accommodate everyone for PTR. And who knows what new bugs it would introduce? Adding one line of code can break the entire program if doesn't interact well with the old code (and given SC is 19 years old, I wouldn't be surprised if most of their time spent was working on making sure that everything was coded well and cleaning up unnecessary/hacky code). We don't know which issues/bugs are easier/harder to fix. Stop assuming that just because things are simple on the surface, that it should be an easy fix on Blizzard's end.
Well, that wasn't really an explanation but I see that it might be deeper than I thought (although as someone else said this isn't Blizzard's first game with chat commands and such).
Fun thing is that a friend of mine (who has not too much expiereince with programming) made an example/illustration which makes it clear on why things aren't as easy as they seem to be and that adding a line of code that might fix an issue breaks other things ... within a few lines of text he sent me I understood more than from any other post here...
Well, let's just leave it this way.
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On April 13 2017 05:20 Slayer1234 wrote:
Hello i succes to found the version .exe in iccup launcher but it instanly crash can you give me tips to resolve this problem please?
Try mca launcher, you can download it from this thread: Mca Launcher
You can have access to fish server with it (iccup launcher is for iccup server only).
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EPT
