• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 06:48
CEST 12:48
KST 19:48
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Serral wins EWC 202538Tournament Spotlight: FEL Cracow 202510Power Rank - Esports World Cup 202580RSL Season 1 - Final Week9[ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall15
Community News
Weekly Cups (Jul 28-Aug 3): herO doubles up4LiuLi Cup - August 2025 Tournaments3[BSL 2025] H2 - Team Wars, Weeklies & SB Ladder10EWC 2025 - Replay Pack4Google Play ASL (Season 20) Announced55
StarCraft 2
General
Weekly Cups (Jul 28-Aug 3): herO doubles up How to leave Master league - bug fix? Serral wins EWC 2025 The GOAT ranking of GOAT rankings Interview with Chris "ChanmanV" Chan
Tourneys
Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament LiuLi Cup - August 2025 Tournaments Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond) TaeJa vs Creator Bo7 SC Evo Showmatch FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $10,000 live event
Strategy
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation # 485 Death from Below Mutation # 484 Magnetic Pull Mutation #239 Bad Weather Mutation # 483 Kill Bot Wars
Brood War
General
How do the new Battle.net ranks translate? Nobody gona talk about this year crazy qualifiers? [BSL 2025] H2 - Team Wars, Weeklies & SB Ladder BSL Team Wars - Bonyth, Dewalt, Hawk & Sziky teams BW General Discussion
Tourneys
[ASL20] Online Qualifiers Day 2 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues Cosmonarchy Pro Showmatches [ASL20] Online Qualifiers Day 1
Strategy
[G] Mineral Boosting Muta micro map competition Does 1 second matter in StarCraft? Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Total Annihilation Server - TAForever Nintendo Switch Thread Beyond All Reason [MMORPG] Tree of Savior (Successor of Ragnarok)
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine US Politics Mega-thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread 9/11 Anniversary Possible Al Qaeda Attack on 9/11
Fan Clubs
INnoVation Fan Club SKT1 Classic Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread [\m/] Heavy Metal Thread Movie Discussion! Korean Music Discussion
Sports
Formula 1 Discussion 2024 - 2025 Football Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Gtx660 graphics card replacement Installation of Windows 10 suck at "just a moment" Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
TeamLiquid Team Shirt On Sale The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Sharpening the Filtration…
frozenclaw
ASL S20 English Commentary…
namkraft
The Link Between Fitness and…
TrAiDoS
momentary artworks from des…
tankgirl
from making sc maps to makin…
Husyelt
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 596 users

ASL Power Rank

Forum Index > BW General
92 CommentsPost a Reply
Normal

ASL Power Rank

Text byBigFan
Graphics byv1
December 2nd, 2016 05:51 GMT
Gigamatch

One of the more popular features of Teamliquid in earlier times, the Power Rank ran through multiple OSL/MSL/PLs, going back to 2006 before it was metaphorically laid to rest back in 2012. With the second season of the Afreeca Starleague (ASL) starting in a couple of days, we thought this would be a great time to revive the Power Rank. Without further ado, please go ahead and read our own rankings, post your own in the comments below and feel free to discuss to your heart's desire!
 

#1: Flash [image loading]
[image loading]
Since being knocked out of the last ASL in the Ro8 by Last, Flash's play has become really solid. He's been topping the monthly ranking with a win rate of ~70-80% far above most of the other competitors and has beaten most players in this upcoming ASL quite convincingly. He's been slowly regaining his form and will be the player to fear the most if he prepares as well as he has done in the past. Is the ultimate weapon charging up to take first place?
 

#2: Last [image loading]
[image loading]
Nicknamed Alphago by Flash, Last has certainly made his mark on the scene. He's been constantly in the top 5 monthly rankings trailing mostly behind Flash and Bisu and has been made numerous final appearances. In SSL10, he lost against sSak in the finals and has been thirsty for a first place finish since then. He was knocked out in the Ro8 by Bisu in VANT, got knocked out of the semifinals by Shuttle in the last ASL after beating Flash 3-0 which was considered a remarkable feat and won silver in Thrill Starleague losing only to ZerO. Will he manage to finally win it all this time around?
 

#3: Bisu
[image loading]
Everyone who has seen Bisu play will tell you he is one of the best protoss players to play the game. His multitasking, decision-making and micro among other things are second to none (except Flash). Similar to Flash, he has held a Top 5 monthly spot with a win rate as high as 68.5% for several months. Bisu opted out of participating in the last ASL but he has made it to the finals in past tournaments such as SSL9, SSL11 and VANT despite facing stiff competition (took second in all except SSL9). He has also taken games off all the other players and recently beat Flash and Jaedong in the KT Giga Legends Match.
 

#4: EffOrt
[image loading]
Effort has been showing steady improvements in his gameplay since he made his debut on Afreeca. Though he was knocked out in the Ro16 in the previous ASL and has struggled a bit lately to put up some solid results (knocked out in Nal_ra starleague by Sky and Sharp), he managed to take silver in Terror's starleague and one can't forget his first place win over Bisu in VANT. He has also achieved a top 5 monthly ranking in Nov and is one of the only Zergs that is able to handle mech well enough in the late game. He should be a force to be reckoned with this ASL.
 

#5: Shuttle
[image loading]
You might be wondering why Shuttle has gotten this spot despite winning the last ASL? Though Shuttle manages to win smaller tournaments and won the last ASL convincingly, his performance is not awe-aspiring. When you watch other BW players, you feel this aura of dominance, yet you don't feel the same from Shuttle. His play is still really solid overall. He knows instinctively when to strike his opponent and has been gradually getting better. Still, winning the ASL once could've been partially luck despite him taking on tough opponents like Last.
 

#6: Sharp [image loading]
[image loading]
One of the more accomplished players on Sonic's now-defunct BBARAS team, Sharp has been making a lot of noise with his recent gameplay. He has been slowly improving as is evident by placing third in VANT followed by second place in the recent ASL. His TvT seems to be his strong suit and has helped his ascent. His TvZ is also solid but he needs to work on his TvP if he wishes to make it as far this time around.
 

#7: by.hero
[image loading]
Considered one of the best zergs before Effort made his debut on Afreeca, hero's ZvP is still his best matchup. This has allowed him to best strong opponents like Bisu many times since his SSL9 loss such as beating Bisu 3-0 in SSL11 finals over a year back. Since then, hero's skill level has fluctuated quite by bit. He was knocked out early in the Ro32 in VANT though he made it much further in the previous ASL, to the Ro8 before being eliminated by Sea in a close series. His ZvT needs more work considering his current opponents in this ASL, however, hero has been on the upswing lately. He has finally made the Top 5 monthly rankings, has a winning record against Bisu (7-3) and has also tied Flash (7-7). Everyone beware, hero is coming!
 

#8: Mind [image loading]
[image loading]
Compared to 1-2 years ago where Mind was considered one of the top player in the post-kespa era (only second to Bisu), his game has taken quite a nose dive. It's hard to point to a single reason, whether that's due to loss of motivation or external factors. However, recent rumours indicate that Mind has been practicing frantically so that he can place well in this ASL. He has also been winning more games against players such as Effort, Bisu, ZerO etc... Considering his past history, his performance in Nal_ra Starleague where he placed second, right behind Flash and his most recent performance against high-caliber opponents, we are confident that Mind will make quite the high placement this ASL.
 

#9: Soulkey
[image loading]
Like Rain, Soulkey is looking to transfer his success that he has achieved during his Starcraft II career into his new post-KeSPA Brood War career. Also like Rain, Soulkey is a no-nonsense, management style Zerg that was revered for giving the top Terran's trouble in the KeSPA era. Known for being a lazy player with immense talent, his success in the ASL will hinge on how much effort and preparation he will put into the tournament.
 

#10: Jaedong
[image loading]
One of the best zergs of all times, Jaedong has been playing under the guise of jiko/424 for several months on Afreeca before he started streaming recently. Both his ZvZ and ZvT need more work especially when you consider his recent losses to lower-caliber players, however, his ZvP is solid overall. He put on a good showing in his match against Bisu in the KT Giga Legends Match despite losing the series 1-2. The Tyrant still has a long way to go and we are confident in his abilities to achieve some of the same highs of the past. Will this tournament be his to lose? Only one way to find out.
 

#11: Rain
[image loading]
One of my favorite quotes from a certain user on Team Liquid has always amused me - "Whether By.Sun or By.Rain, he always delivers." More known among the Starcraft II community as 'no-fun Jeong' for innovating how to play defensive Protoss, Rain has re-entered the post-KeSPA system after taking a brief sabbatical to cast SC2 for SPOTV Games. Despite his successes in SC2, we have yet to see whether Rain will be able to replicate this in the post-KeSPA BW scene. Just like in SC2, expect solid, no-nonsense gameplay from him.
 

#12: Sea [image loading]
[image loading]
Oh, how far Sea has fallen. For years after the professional scene ended, Sea was always placing well in many tournaments, taking first place in the smaller ones. He had a solid TvT, TvZ and a work in progress TvP which was taking games off the likes of Bisu. He even placed well in the recent ASL after getting knocked out in the Ro16 in VANT. However, unlike Mind, seems like Sea has been slacking lately. His results against players such as Shuttle, hero, last etc... have been dismal (<50%). We'll have to wait and see if he can pull himself together for this ASL. Sea hwaiting!
 

#13: Light [image loading]
[image loading]
Known as one of the few Terran's not named Flash during the KeSPA era that could go toe-to-toe with Jaedong in the TvZ match-up, the Invisible Terran is unique in that he has participated in the post-KeSPA system of tournaments both before and after serving his mandatory stint in the Korean military. After a brief period of inactivity working for a start-up company, Light has come back onto the scene, and just like his career in the KeSPA era, look out for his TvZ because it's pleasure to watch - just don't hold your breath for his TvP and TvT.
 

#14: free
[image loading]
One of the original six dragons during the kespa era, free has had a hard time finding his stride. His last notable performance was during VANT where he was eliminated 1-3 by ZerO in Ro8. Afterwards, he has participated in various small tournaments with mixed results. In the previous ASL, he was eliminated in the group stages losing to sSak and Shuttle. As it stands, free has been losing quite a bit lately, even in his best matchup, PvZ. Whether free makes it past the group stages or falls there is anyone's guess.
 

#15: Stork
[image loading]
Stork was one of the most consistent protoss players during the Kespa era. During the qualifiers, it was rumoured that Stork practiced quite a bit, to the point that Sharp was confident that he will advance. His game against Flash in the KT Giga Legends Match seems to suggest that Stork's macro is pretty solid overall and it's mostly his decision making skills and positioning that need work. Still, with no recent BW results, Stork will have to best quite a bit of ex-pros who have years of extra practice under their belt after professional BW ended.
 

#16: Larva
[image loading]
Larva has been a madman as of late. His recent games seem to indicate that the Zerg player must have used stim to conquer his foes such as Flash and co on Afreeca especially when you consider his Top 5 ranking. He has not participated in many tournaments lately (knocked out right away in previous ASL, took first place in 41 Ranking tournament in April). We have seen some sparks of brilliance from Larva when he's streaming but whether those materialize on the upcoming ASL stage is a bit of an unknown at this point in time and nothing indicates otherwise.
 

#17: Movie
[image loading]
Despite being a force to be reckoned with over the past couple of years even when out of practice, 2016 has not been a kind year for Movie. The young protoss who is currently running a side business has been playing and streaming less BW these days and his skills have deteriorated as a result. His last significant standing was third place in the 41 Starleague Season 4, behind Mong and Last. With the current level of BW players rising ever so steadily, Movie is in the fight of his life if he wishes to make it far in this star-strutted ASL.
 

#18: Mong [image loading]
[image loading]
Known as pig terran, Mong has fallen far from his top form where he was referred to as the Afreecan flash due to his intense multitasking. He has had little success in both VANT and the previous ASL where he was eliminated in the group stages by Last, hero and free. He was eliminated just recently in Thrill Starleague by s2 and Rain and his November stats have shown a great decline in his once formidable matchup, TvZ with a combined record of 8-21 when going up against hero and Effort. It's hard to see Mong going far with his current skill level. Maybe he'll get a power-up with the help of his girlfriend much like during the SSL9 days?
 

#19: Iris [image loading]
[image loading]
Known as the berserker, Iris has not participated in any tournaments since the beginning of 2016. His last tournament was 41 Starleague season 4 where he was eliminated after losing against Sky, Guemchi and Shuttle. An old school player who came incredibly close to winning an OSL back in 2007, there may still be surprises left in store for us. Best not to count him out and tune in to cheer for his fighting spirit and victory!
 

#20: Best
[image loading]
Ah Best. Known for his macro-oriented style in PvT during the kespa era, it seems that Best is not as proficient at this style as he once were. His PvZ has also not shown much improvement. He was knocked out in the group stages early on in the last ASL and has a terrible record against both terrans and zergs on Afreeca this past month. While PvP is his current best matchup, he can't rely solely on it to get to the top considering this ASL's race distribution. Based on these results, things don't look too good for our dragon. BeSt not to call it quits yet though!
 

#21: GuemChi
[image loading]
Guemchi has been streaming less BW these days but has been gaining followers due to his antics (see this article). He has been knocked out in the earlier stages in the majority of tournaments he has participated in recently. His last good result was in VANT where he lost 1-3 to Effort in the Ro8. Whether he puts more effort into his gameplay is an unknown but G-shizzle will certainly give us a good show.
 

#22: Rush [image loading]
[image loading]
Rush has taken games off PianO, Movie and ZerO this past January in the 41 Starleague Season 4. However, his previous knockout in the Ro16 in VANT does not paint his skills in good light when it comes to offline tournaments. This is the most stacked BW tournament that we have had since professional BW ended and based on this, it is really doubtful that Rush will make it far.
 

#23: MisO
[image loading]
MisO has not played in many tournaments over the years. In the most recent Thrill Starleague, he only managed to best Tyson and was knocked out by ZerO and Last. He has went up against several players in this league, most notably Mind, Sea and GuemChi and has lost to them all as well. Much like some of the lesser known players, it remains to be seen whether he makes it further than his usual.
 

#24: Terror
[image loading]
Terror managed to make it through the qualifiers on the back of beating Sexy 2-1. He is your atypical BW player. Since becoming a huge hit on Afreeca for his antics, he barely plays BW on his stream, eliciting to do other stuff. With his lack of practice, there's not much to be said about his potentially early exit. Expect one of the largest turnouts when he plays his matches in Group D.
 

#25: Ample [image loading]
[image loading]
Ample has not participated in many tournaments lately. His last tournament was the 41 Starleague Season 4 where he was eliminated early on by Rush and by.hero. His records overall indicate that his best matchup is TvZ with his last win over Bale. Ample used to be quite a notable terran player years ago when the amateur scene first formed, however, he has been surpassed by many of the returning players.
 

#26: force[Name]
[image loading]
Much like Ample, Force[name] has been around the scene since the early SRT days where he has beaten plenty of amateurs. His most recent results include early exits from both SSL10 and 11 with a sole win over ZerO. With this large pool of extremely skilled players, only time will tell if force[name] makes a splash of his own this time around.
 

#27: Hint
[image loading]
Another amateur player, Hint's last tournament was the 41 Starleague Season 4 where he won several games off July and Last but was eliminated regardless. He has no notable achievements to his name even during the earlier SSL/SRT days where he was a frequent participant and not much expectations on his shoulders either.
 

#28: By.Maru
[image loading]
By.Maru is an unknown compared to everyone else on this list. It's commendable that he's made it past the qualifiers but all we can do now is watch his games to find out where he ranks among the rest.

 

Writers: BigFan, GTR
Graphics: v1
Editors: BigFan
Photo Credits: DailyEsports
 
Facebook Twitter Reddit
Former BW EiC"Watch Bakemonogatari or I will kill you." -Toad, April 18th, 2017
BLinD-RawR
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
ALLEYCAT BLUES50121 Posts
December 02 2016 06:00 GMT
#2
not controversial enough
Brood War EICWoo Jung Ho, never forget.| Twitter: @BLinDRawR
TL+ Member
TheNewEra
Profile Joined March 2011
Germany3128 Posts
December 02 2016 06:02 GMT
#3
Just earlier today I thought it would be awesome to have the Power Rank back and here you are. Thanks for the great work
Midas <3 Casy <3 BeSt <3 | Pray to Doh-men, heathens! | Zwischen Harz und Heideland
Wolf
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Korea (South)3290 Posts
December 02 2016 06:13 GMT
#4
Pretty on point. I might rank BeSt a little higher and Rain a little lower.
Commentatorhttp://twitter.com/proxywolf
TL+ Member
BLinD-RawR
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
ALLEYCAT BLUES50121 Posts
December 02 2016 06:21 GMT
#5
BeSt had great PvZ when he came back, then he went full BeSt again.
Brood War EICWoo Jung Ho, never forget.| Twitter: @BLinDRawR
TL+ Member
FlaShFTW
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States10158 Posts
December 02 2016 06:41 GMT
#6
On December 02 2016 15:13 Wolf wrote:
Pretty on point. I might rank BeSt a little higher and Rain a little lower.

Rain's PvT is still on fire.
Writer#1 KT and FlaSh Fanboy || Woo Jung Ho Never Forget || Teamliquid Political Decision Desk
TL+ Member
Sabu113
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States11048 Posts
December 02 2016 06:44 GMT
#7
Holy crap. Didn't realize so many greats were still playing. Oh man this is exciting.
Biomine is a drunken chick who is on industrial strength amphetamines and would just grab your dick and jerk it as hard and violently as she could while screaming 'OMG FUCK ME', because she saw it in a Sasha Grey video ...-Wombat_Ni
Ziggy
Profile Blog Joined June 2013
South Korea2105 Posts
December 02 2016 07:07 GMT
#8
Rain is really quite far up there. Wonder what hes going to bring to the table during his groupplay
WriterDefeating a sandwich only makes it tastier. @imjustziggy
byj
Profile Joined November 2015
494 Posts
December 02 2016 07:14 GMT
#9
Ahh love reading these! Thanks alot!
Me_ToKa
Profile Joined September 2009
Bulgaria309 Posts
December 02 2016 07:15 GMT
#10
Shuttle is beast these days. He is doing really outstanding games!
Jealous
Profile Blog Joined December 2011
10152 Posts
December 02 2016 07:21 GMT
#11
Can you feel the hype??

BROOOOOOD~

WAAAAAAAR~

BABY <3
"The right to vote is only the oar of the slaveship, I wanna be free." -- бум бум сучка!
BronzeKnee
Profile Joined March 2011
United States5217 Posts
December 02 2016 07:34 GMT
#12
On December 02 2016 15:44 Sabu113 wrote:
Holy crap. Didn't realize so many greats were still playing. Oh man this is exciting.


Neither did I. I thought these guys retired but apparently they went back to BW? Are they doing this for fun or as their job?
BLinD-RawR
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
ALLEYCAT BLUES50121 Posts
December 02 2016 07:48 GMT
#13
why not both?

as full time streamers
Brood War EICWoo Jung Ho, never forget.| Twitter: @BLinDRawR
TL+ Member
BronzeKnee
Profile Joined March 2011
United States5217 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-12-02 08:05:32
December 02 2016 08:04 GMT
#14
Ok well then it is the latter. Though you can have fun as your job, it is still your job.

Everyone have to do something to bring home the bacon.
BossPurple
Profile Joined May 2011
Sweden65 Posts
December 02 2016 08:20 GMT
#15
So excited for this!

Although there has been some fairly big BW tournaments this past year, this one should be a better indicator to see how BW can do as an eSport going forward.
EsportsJohn
Profile Blog Joined June 2012
United States4883 Posts
December 02 2016 08:48 GMT
#16
On December 02 2016 17:04 BronzeKnee wrote:
Ok well then it is the latter. Though you can have fun as your job, it is still your job.

Everyone have to do something to bring home the bacon.


You'd be amazed how much bacon Flash brings home....
StrategyAllyssa Grey <3<3
seom
Profile Joined January 2013
South Africa491 Posts
December 02 2016 08:48 GMT
#17
Super hyped for this!

I would put Stork a bit lower though.
Tuth
Profile Joined December 2009
Poland29 Posts
December 02 2016 09:13 GMT
#18
Yay, Power Rank is back! Can't wait for the upcoming ASL matches.
Release, Revolve, Renew.
Probemicro
Profile Joined February 2014
3708 Posts
December 02 2016 09:26 GMT
#19
Sea and light too high, free too low, soulkey a bit too high too
classicyellow83
Profile Joined June 2016
United States2393 Posts
December 02 2016 10:12 GMT
#20
Sea was the one who nicknamed Last Alphago, not Flash.
Reach!!! Come back to BW!!
sickkungen
Profile Joined July 2012
Sweden179 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-12-02 10:16:57
December 02 2016 10:13 GMT
#21
If Larva can keep his game up in offline-environments he and Sharp should switch places. One thing going for him is that he recently switched to fullscreen starcraft while practicing. The tournaments use fullscreen too which could only have a positive effect.

Soulkey at #9???
SCC-Faust
Profile Blog Joined November 2007
United States3736 Posts
December 02 2016 10:27 GMT
#22
Rooting for Zergs. Mostly hero though... cause he is MY hero
I want to fuck Soulkey with a Zelderan.
letian
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Germany4221 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-12-02 12:14:39
December 02 2016 12:09 GMT
#23
Hey, where is (Z)ZerO?
EsportsJohn
Profile Blog Joined June 2012
United States4883 Posts
December 02 2016 12:14 GMT
#24
On December 02 2016 21:09 letian wrote:
Hey, where is Zero lol?


...He won't be playing in ASL . Lives too far away from the studio and can't afford to take the time or money to travel; also said he feels really bad when he's struggling with travel, plays badly, and then Afreeca chat insults him. It's a sucky situation to be in :/.

StrategyAllyssa Grey <3<3
Ej_
Profile Blog Joined January 2013
47656 Posts
December 02 2016 12:16 GMT
#25
wow BeSt@20

!!! controversial !!!
"Technically the dictionary has zero authority on the meaning or words" - Rodya
The_Red_Viper
Profile Blog Joined August 2013
19533 Posts
December 02 2016 12:54 GMT
#26
I am so hyped for this ASL, great list!
Now we only need liquibets
IU | Sohyang || There is no God and we are his prophets | For if ‘Thou mayest’—it is also true that ‘Thou mayest not.” | Ignorance is the parent of fear |
BisuDagger
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Bisutopia19239 Posts
December 02 2016 12:54 GMT
#27
I actually disagree with a lot on this list to the point I think this is just a list after the first 6 and not a ranking.

* by,hero has had terrible results for almost two years, but is put above Mind who has performed better.
*Soulkey, Jaedong, and Rain at 9, 10, & 11 is a HUGE insult to players that have actually earned results over the past several years. They need to all move down at least 4 spots. And how can we rank Soulkey so high without anything solid to back this up. Rain at least did well in the Thrill Starleague and Jaedong in GIGA.
* Sea has dominated for 5 years now and had great tournament results (see online tournaments) yet is behind players who have no results
* Free has had some of the best results as protoss second to only Bisu and Eyewater and owns some of the best PvT still. The fact that he is behind Rain is just wrong.
* Stork is above Movie and BeSt even though Movie still randomly takes great results out of nowhere and BeSt had proven over the past year he's a pretty strong protoss too. Stork's giga matches prove nothing
* Mong was at his best in 2014-2015 with decent results in 2016 yet we just tossed him down the stairs lol

Here's my power rank. I'd say the top 3 are interchangeable, but this captures their ranks more closely.
+ Show Spoiler +
1. Last
2. Bisu
3. Flash
4. eyewater
5. effort
6. Mind
7. free
8. Sharp
9. Sea
10. Best
11. hero
12. Jaedong
13. Rain
14. Mong
15. Movie
16. larva
17. Soulkey
18. Light
19. Guemchi
20. Rush
21. Stork
22. Iris
23. Miso
24. Terror
25. Ample
26. Hint
27. force
28. By.maru

ModeratorFormer Afreeca Starleague Caster: http://afreeca.tv/ASL2ENG2
Cele
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Germany4016 Posts
December 02 2016 13:42 GMT
#28
i disagree with Flash being #1. Yeah he most likely will earn a top 3 spot soon enough, but he hasn't done so yet. He isn't a SOSPA/Afreeca Starleague Winner yet and past glory isn't enough in my book.
Broodwar for life!
HaN-
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
France1920 Posts
December 02 2016 13:43 GMT
#29
What exactly are the selection criteria for the making of this ranking?
Calendaraka Foxhan
classicyellow83
Profile Joined June 2016
United States2393 Posts
December 02 2016 13:49 GMT
#30
On December 02 2016 22:42 Cele wrote:
i disagree with Flash being #1. Yeah he most likely will earn a top 3 spot soon enough, but he hasn't done so yet. He isn't a SOSPA/Afreeca Starleague Winner yet and past glory isn't enough in my book.

How about having the highest win rate since he came to afreeca and having winning record vs all of the players?
Reach!!! Come back to BW!!
Cele
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Germany4016 Posts
December 02 2016 13:49 GMT
#31
On December 02 2016 22:42 Cele wrote:
i disagree with Flash being #1. Yeah he most likely will earn a top 3 spot soon enough, but he hasn't done so yet. He isn't a SOSPA/Afreeca Starleague Winner yet and past glory isn't enough in my book.


Also rating shuttle, the current champion, on #5 ist just wrong, no matter what fancy words you use to explain it. There's no recent data of (big) tournaments to back that up and in my mind you need solid reasons to do so.

Rating Jaedong above accomplished SOSPA Veterans like Sea, Larva, Mong seems wrong too. Yes he is the tyrant, but again you give him this spot for his prestige only, he has no achievements so far (not counting a third place in the TLBS Showmatch..)

But reiterating my first statement, Flash on spot #1 isn't justifiable at all. Rating the player who was defeated 0-3 by Last in last ASL on the first place seems just off. Especially when you rate Last worse ^^



Overall, my first impression is this powerrank is based to much on hype and prestige of players and less on actual results.


Broodwar for life!
Cele
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Germany4016 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-12-02 13:52:32
December 02 2016 13:52 GMT
#32
On December 02 2016 22:49 classicyellow83 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 02 2016 22:42 Cele wrote:
i disagree with Flash being #1. Yeah he most likely will earn a top 3 spot soon enough, but he hasn't done so yet. He isn't a SOSPA/Afreeca Starleague Winner yet and past glory isn't enough in my book.

How about having the highest win rate since he came to afreeca and having winning record vs all of the players?


sorry but i was thinking the power rank would be created under the same criteria as the iterations back in the ol' days: tournament success. Since when do we make his practice games prime consideration? Yeah things have changed since we see first person streams every day, im open to the idea of taking that into account. But i think, tournament successes should be weighed more, for a couple of reasons. Not gonna go into detail,since i think it's obvious for us where the difference is.
Broodwar for life!
quirinus
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
Croatia2489 Posts
December 02 2016 13:54 GMT
#33
There we go, it seems that there's no lack of controversy after all.

Thanks for the power rank!
All candles lit within him, and there was purity. | First auto-promoted BW LP editor.
The_Red_Viper
Profile Blog Joined August 2013
19533 Posts
December 02 2016 13:58 GMT
#34
On December 02 2016 22:49 Cele wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 02 2016 22:42 Cele wrote:
i disagree with Flash being #1. Yeah he most likely will earn a top 3 spot soon enough, but he hasn't done so yet. He isn't a SOSPA/Afreeca Starleague Winner yet and past glory isn't enough in my book.


Also rating shuttle, the current champion, on #5 ist just wrong, no matter what fancy words you use to explain it. There's no recent data of (big) tournaments to back that up and in my mind you need solid reasons to do so.

Rating Jaedong above accomplished SOSPA Veterans like Sea, Larva, Mong seems wrong too. Yes he is the tyrant, but again you give him this spot for his prestige only, he has no achievements so far (not counting a third place in the TLBS Showmatch..)

But reiterating my first statement, Flash on spot #1 isn't justifiable at all. Rating the player who was defeated 0-3 by Last in last ASL on the first place seems just off. Especially when you rate Last worse ^^



Overall, my first impression is this powerrank is based to much on hype and prestige of players and less on actual results.



The problem simply is that there aren't enough tournaments to make a power rank only using official results. You have to include other results as well. I don't see why results which area extremely old (talking about sospa events from >6 months ago) would be more relevant than recent baloon matches, etc
As long as there aren't a lot of offline tournaments going on it's simply the best solution. You can still argue about the weighing of the results ofc


IU | Sohyang || There is no God and we are his prophets | For if ‘Thou mayest’—it is also true that ‘Thou mayest not.” | Ignorance is the parent of fear |
Cele
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Germany4016 Posts
December 02 2016 14:06 GMT
#35
On December 02 2016 22:58 The_Red_Viper wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 02 2016 22:49 Cele wrote:
On December 02 2016 22:42 Cele wrote:
i disagree with Flash being #1. Yeah he most likely will earn a top 3 spot soon enough, but he hasn't done so yet. He isn't a SOSPA/Afreeca Starleague Winner yet and past glory isn't enough in my book.


Also rating shuttle, the current champion, on #5 ist just wrong, no matter what fancy words you use to explain it. There's no recent data of (big) tournaments to back that up and in my mind you need solid reasons to do so.

Rating Jaedong above accomplished SOSPA Veterans like Sea, Larva, Mong seems wrong too. Yes he is the tyrant, but again you give him this spot for his prestige only, he has no achievements so far (not counting a third place in the TLBS Showmatch..)

But reiterating my first statement, Flash on spot #1 isn't justifiable at all. Rating the player who was defeated 0-3 by Last in last ASL on the first place seems just off. Especially when you rate Last worse ^^



Overall, my first impression is this powerrank is based to much on hype and prestige of players and less on actual results.



The problem simply is that there aren't enough tournaments to make a power rank only using official results. You have to include other results as well. I don't see why results which area extremely old (talking about sospa events from >6 months ago) would be more relevant than recent baloon matches, etc
As long as there aren't a lot of offline tournaments going on it's simply the best solution. You can still argue about the weighing of the results ofc



agree with you on the point, but i think the weighing is the question here.
Broodwar for life!
c3rberUs
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Japan11286 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-12-02 14:28:08
December 02 2016 14:25 GMT
#36
On December 02 2016 19:12 classicyellow83 wrote:
Sea was the one who nicknamed Last Alphago, not Flash.

Thanks for confirming. There was a post earlier this year about when FlaSh watched Last's FPV, he went like "this guy truly like AlphaGo". So pretty much everyone thought he coined the nickname.

I call bull on this PR. Stork should have been number 1.

@BD
* Sea has dominated for 5 years now and had great tournament results (see online tournaments) yet is behind players who have no results

I highlighted the keyword which is the sole reason why he placed that low. xP
WriterMovie, 진영화 : "StarCraft will never die".
imre
Profile Blog Joined November 2011
France9263 Posts
December 02 2016 14:38 GMT
#37
So hyped for this. Nice to see some BW Power rank on the spotlight too.
Zest fanboy.
BisuDagger
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Bisutopia19239 Posts
December 02 2016 14:52 GMT
#38
On December 02 2016 23:25 c3rberUs wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 02 2016 19:12 classicyellow83 wrote:
Sea was the one who nicknamed Last Alphago, not Flash.

Thanks for confirming. There was a post earlier this year about when FlaSh watched Last's FPV, he went like "this guy truly like AlphaGo". So pretty much everyone thought he coined the nickname.

I call bull on this PR. Stork should have been number 1.

@BD
Show nested quote +
* Sea has dominated for 5 years now and had great tournament results (see online tournaments) yet is behind players who have no results

I highlighted the keyword which is the sole reason why he placed that low. xP

Behind players with zero results. And he was in the final four of the last ASL so he even did well offline. Behind jd, soulkey, and rain is completely wrong.
ModeratorFormer Afreeca Starleague Caster: http://afreeca.tv/ASL2ENG2
BLinD-RawR
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
ALLEYCAT BLUES50121 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-12-02 16:38:39
December 02 2016 16:36 GMT
#39
Tournament success is no longer the end all be all guys, I'd rate sponmatches a lot more than most online tournaments.

And sea isn't playing with the fire that he used to have anymore
Brood War EICWoo Jung Ho, never forget.| Twitter: @BLinDRawR
TL+ Member
LaStScan
Profile Joined May 2011
Korea (South)1289 Posts
December 02 2016 16:43 GMT
#40
On December 02 2016 21:14 SC2John wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 02 2016 21:09 letian wrote:
Hey, where is Zero lol?


...He won't be playing in ASL . Lives too far away from the studio and can't afford to take the time or money to travel; also said he feels really bad when he's struggling with travel, plays badly, and then Afreeca chat insults him. It's a sucky situation to be in :/.



That's also my situation. I wanted to achieve something at least before i serve the military service.
Trying my best for ASL, ASTL
Ghardo
Profile Blog Joined September 2004
Germany1685 Posts
December 02 2016 17:12 GMT
#41
I loved Power Ranks back in the day and I love them now.
ortseam
Profile Joined April 2015
996 Posts
December 02 2016 17:39 GMT
#42
On December 03 2016 01:36 BLinD-RawR wrote:
Tournament success is no longer the end all be all guys, I'd rate sponmatches a lot more than most online tournaments.

And sea isn't playing with the fire that he used to have anymore

I think we still see more strategic play in online tournaments compared to the usual "another macro fest on FS" non-tournament play. And Sea still placed 3rd-4th in ASL without having an easy road, despite his recent online mediocre play.
------
Other than that I would expect Zero for #4/3 had he participated
Shinokuki
Profile Joined July 2013
United States859 Posts
December 02 2016 18:04 GMT
#43
On December 02 2016 21:54 BisuDagger wrote:
I actually disagree with a lot on this list to the point I think this is just a list after the first 6 and not a ranking.

* by,hero has had terrible results for almost two years, but is put above Mind who has performed better.
*Soulkey, Jaedong, and Rain at 9, 10, & 11 is a HUGE insult to players that have actually earned results over the past several years. They need to all move down at least 4 spots. And how can we rank Soulkey so high without anything solid to back this up. Rain at least did well in the Thrill Starleague and Jaedong in GIGA.
* Sea has dominated for 5 years now and had great tournament results (see online tournaments) yet is behind players who have no results
* Free has had some of the best results as protoss second to only Bisu and Eyewater and owns some of the best PvT still. The fact that he is behind Rain is just wrong.
* Stork is above Movie and BeSt even though Movie still randomly takes great results out of nowhere and BeSt had proven over the past year he's a pretty strong protoss too. Stork's giga matches prove nothing
* Mong was at his best in 2014-2015 with decent results in 2016 yet we just tossed him down the stairs lol

Here's my power rank. I'd say the top 3 are interchangeable, but this captures their ranks more closely.
+ Show Spoiler +
1. Last
2. Bisu
3. Flash
4. eyewater
5. effort
6. Mind
7. free
8. Sharp
9. Sea
10. Best
11. hero
12. Jaedong
13. Rain
14. Mong
15. Movie
16. larva
17. Soulkey
18. Light
19. Guemchi
20. Rush
21. Stork
22. Iris
23. Miso
24. Terror
25. Ample
26. Hint
27. force
28. By.maru



This is way off. Last recently went into shadows to improve his game after getting shat by 3 top zergs. Bisu has been sucking and has a losing record vs zergs. His winrate recently dipped below 50%. Effort has 63% win rate but that's VS players like bisu flash last included(70-80 games). I'd say top three are Flash, Effort, and By.Hero
Life is just life
FyRe_DragOn
Profile Blog Joined November 2006
Canada2056 Posts
December 02 2016 18:33 GMT
#44
power rank!! :D will it be updated under TLPD on the right sidebar?
aka DragOn[NaS]
usopsama
Profile Joined April 2008
6502 Posts
December 02 2016 18:46 GMT
#45
Of course God is number 1.
lastride
Profile Joined April 2014
2390 Posts
December 02 2016 20:26 GMT
#46
BW is a killer nowadays! Holy Shit
L1ghtning
Profile Joined July 2013
Sweden353 Posts
December 02 2016 20:35 GMT
#47
Bisu is nr 1 in my book. I have seen too many lackluster games from Flash.
outscar
Profile Joined September 2014
2832 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-12-02 22:08:29
December 02 2016 21:57 GMT
#48
Enjoyed so much but disagree with 9th and 10th spots: JD and Soulkey are really freash to scene. I wanted to see Sea on those spots due to online king got really far last season and lost his ticket into finals on really close TvT. Also 11th place for Rain who never played on real post KeSPa stage but 14th for Free who always passes ro32, mostly gets to ro8? I will put him just below Mind - 9th spot. In other hand of course it's a good idea to put fresh players bit above to hype them up.
EDIT: Look above what BisuDagger said, 100% agree with him.

We need a carrier map for Stork to get him into finals. Wanna really see Movie going far this tournament. Mong needs to focus more on his game instead of running other jobs from what I heard to gain his form. Iris qualified for SSL11 but knocked out by Olympus, like his id says "30yearsold" he's bit old to compete with current pro's but I don't wanna count him out. Ah, poor Terror, got into group with God after so much effort to pass pleminiaries. I'm expecting so much from G-shizzle and BeSt. Larva fighting too! By.Maru looks like copy of SC2 expro Squirtle.
sunbeams are never made like me...
endy
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Switzerland8970 Posts
December 02 2016 22:31 GMT
#49
yay Power Rank!
hero should have been higher imo.
ॐ
Epoxide
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Magic Woods9326 Posts
December 02 2016 23:22 GMT
#50
Force[name] has been around the scene since the early SRT days where he has beaten plenty of amateurs


yah boi force[Name] is an SSL champion
LiquipediaSouma: EU MM is just Russian Roulette. Literally.
Epoxide
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Magic Woods9326 Posts
December 02 2016 23:23 GMT
#51
On December 03 2016 03:33 FyRe_DragOn wrote:
power rank!! :D will it be updated under TLPD on the right sidebar?

ELO =/= Power Rank
LiquipediaSouma: EU MM is just Russian Roulette. Literally.
c3rberUs
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Japan11286 Posts
December 02 2016 23:54 GMT
#52
Damn I forgot Sea placed quite well in the last ASL and only lost to the eventual runner-up. My bad.

Still, sponmatches matter a great deal more these days imho.
WriterMovie, 진영화 : "StarCraft will never die".
Khai
Profile Joined August 2010
Australia551 Posts
December 03 2016 02:33 GMT
#53
Very nice, looking forward to the tournament.
blade55555
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States17423 Posts
December 03 2016 03:49 GMT
#54
Just from seeing Flash's tournament games, I definitely don't think he should be #1. Can't wait for ASL though, I hope Jaedong does good, but we'll see!
When I think of something else, something will go here
Harem
Profile Joined November 2007
United States11390 Posts
December 03 2016 05:23 GMT
#55
sky not being #1 let alone even on this list shows that this power rank is a farce

this is an outrage
Moderator。◕‿◕。
iopq
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States924 Posts
December 03 2016 08:25 GMT
#56
How can Stork beat out Larva who crushes nerds on his stream and has a high Fish win rate?
prech
Profile Joined March 2014
United States2948 Posts
December 03 2016 08:54 GMT
#57
Great work team, glad folks have something to refer to as a player preview as the tournament begins !
Liquipedia
art_of_turtle
Profile Blog Joined September 2012
United States1184 Posts
December 03 2016 08:55 GMT
#58
Liquibet has Peruvian Terror picture instead our crazy antic terror.
Flash should fear Sacsri
okum
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
France5778 Posts
December 03 2016 10:17 GMT
#59
New Power Rank makes me happy
Flash fan before it was cool | Coiner of "jangbang"
FlaShFTW
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States10158 Posts
December 03 2016 10:18 GMT
#60
People in this thread don't realize that because there isn't a proleague, there's a lot of off-time between larger tournaments which means we look at some on-line tournaments and use their sponmatches as a good base for where players are. A player like Hero who went 4-4 against the best TvZ in the world is why he's being ranked higher than expected.
Writer#1 KT and FlaSh Fanboy || Woo Jung Ho Never Forget || Teamliquid Political Decision Desk
TL+ Member
StarscreamG1
Profile Joined February 2011
Portugal1653 Posts
December 03 2016 10:55 GMT
#61
HYPE.
Cele
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Germany4016 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-12-03 11:56:07
December 03 2016 11:55 GMT
#62
[image loading]

да флэш просто суший макро терран я не понемаю зачем он вызвался за ничю приемушество было у него на стороне он мог бы просто полететь половиной зданий и поехать войсками в атаку под зданиями зделать сиеге и просто тупо убить тосса у которого был 1 чтормер и пачка кареров с пачкой гунов протев террановского лимита это смешно просто смешно в любом случае у него стояло столько турелей что даже если бы он не смог убить всех кареров то он мог бы просто порубить их интрецепторов
а если бы даже не добил то всё равно кареры бы их слили на его туретках которых там было чтук 20

User was warned for this post
Broodwar for life!
outscar
Profile Joined September 2014
2832 Posts
December 03 2016 22:09 GMT
#63
On December 03 2016 20:55 Cele wrote:
[image loading]

да флэш просто суший макро терран я не понемаю зачем он вызвался за ничю приемушество было у него на стороне он мог бы просто полететь половиной зданий и поехать войсками в атаку под зданиями зделать сиеге и просто тупо убить тосса у которого был 1 чтормер и пачка кареров с пачкой гунов протев террановского лимита это смешно просто смешно в любом случае у него стояло столько турелей что даже если бы он не смог убить всех кареров то он мог бы просто порубить их интрецепторов
а если бы даже не добил то всё равно кареры бы их слили на его туретках которых там было чтук 20

User was warned for this post


LOL I remember like yesterday this meme.
sunbeams are never made like me...
BigFan
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
TLADT24920 Posts
December 04 2016 07:09 GMT
#64
Something that is constantly getting overlooked is the fact that unlike the past, we don't have a lot of different offline tournaments or PL going on atm. Most of what we have is ASL (originally SSL too but that's folded). With only a single ongoing offline tournaments, we have to consider online tournaments, showmatches etc...

Weighing isn't an exact science here and never is. Sure, some players could potentially move a couple of slots up or down but based on everything on all the above info, I believe the PR captures the true essence of how well the players rank atm. I've seen people claim that I was being unfair to Sea, Best, Mong and several others, rather I was insulting them due to them being placed lower than the fresher faces in the scene.

Thing is, take a look at how those "newer" faces are doing atm. SK has quite a decent record against top players atm. Not the best but far above the rest mentioned above especially considering how long he's been back for. Jaedong has been taking games off more and more terrans and though he lost the legend match to Bisu, he's been improving a lot every day. Rain's PvT is on fire and he recently finished third in Thrill Starleague which had a rather competitive pool.

On the other hand, Sea has been actively going downhill since the first ASL. His record and Best's against any of the top players are outright disgusting. His performance is extremely disappointing to see, whether you are a fan of his or not. Personally, I cheered for him for a long time in the post-kespa era (SRT days, meeting Killer in finals a lot, lots of bizzare games, destroying sSak 4-0 etc... good times) but you can't deny that he doesn't play as well as he used to. Also, let's keep in mind that there were only so many challengers in those days. Nowadays, the player pool skill has increased by quite a bit especially with the return of TBLS.

I could go on and on but suffice to say, the level of the current players fluctuates on a monthly basis.
Former BW EiC"Watch Bakemonogatari or I will kill you." -Toad, April 18th, 2017
PVJ
Profile Blog Joined July 2012
Hungary5220 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-12-05 13:41:28
December 05 2016 13:08 GMT
#65
+ Show Spoiler [Group B spoilers] +
effort's already out.
The heart's eternal vow
iamho
Profile Joined June 2009
United States3347 Posts
December 06 2016 16:23 GMT
#66
Was watching hero's stream when..

[image loading]
Glioburd
Profile Joined April 2008
France1911 Posts
December 06 2016 16:37 GMT
#67
^ Haha nice, too bad he can't read english but I hope he enjoyed it :D
"You should hate loosing, but you should never fear defeat." NaDa.
Peeano
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
Netherlands4990 Posts
December 06 2016 17:16 GMT
#68
I imagine he was mad/laughing that Sharp was ranked above him ^^
FBH #1!
kochanfe
Profile Joined July 2011
Micronesia1338 Posts
December 08 2016 02:13 GMT
#69
In Terror's blurb: "eliciting to do other stuff"

...pretty sure you mean "electing" to do other stuff
"The flame that burns twice as bright burns half as long." - Lao Tzu
FlaShFTW
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States10158 Posts
December 08 2016 02:51 GMT
#70
On December 07 2016 02:16 Peeano wrote:
I imagine he was mad/laughing that Sharp was ranked above him ^^

well... he was knocked out in the round of 8 and sharp made it to the finals...
Writer#1 KT and FlaSh Fanboy || Woo Jung Ho Never Forget || Teamliquid Political Decision Desk
TL+ Member
BigFan
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
TLADT24920 Posts
December 08 2016 03:47 GMT
#71
On December 08 2016 11:13 kochanfe wrote:
In Terror's blurb: "eliciting to do other stuff"

...pretty sure you mean "electing" to do other stuff

thanks, fixed
Former BW EiC"Watch Bakemonogatari or I will kill you." -Toad, April 18th, 2017
DarkNetHunter
Profile Joined October 2012
1224 Posts
December 12 2016 14:05 GMT
#72
On December 07 2016 01:23 iamho wrote:
Was watching hero's stream when..

[image loading]



What exactly did he write?
Are comments in the chat related to that?

Learn from the mistakes of others. You can't live long enough to make them all yourself.
BigFan
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
TLADT24920 Posts
December 14 2016 17:47 GMT
#73
Not sure about the comments but it doesn't seem like he wrote anything. I think that's the default text there (the usual "write a comment here").
Former BW EiC"Watch Bakemonogatari or I will kill you." -Toad, April 18th, 2017
CheAse
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Canada919 Posts
December 25 2016 03:19 GMT
#74
Seeing the power rank makes me feel like I'm back home
SCV good to go sir
Biff The Understudy
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
France7890 Posts
January 06 2017 10:38 GMT
#75
How much i missed the old bw power rank. That deserves much much love.

Now, Jaedng please show those scrubs who is the boss here.
The fellow who is out to burn things up is the counterpart of the fool who thinks he can save the world. The world needs neither to be burned up nor to be saved. The world is, we are. Transients, if we buck it; here to stay if we accept it. ~H.Miller
The_Red_Viper
Profile Blog Joined August 2013
19533 Posts
January 06 2017 13:59 GMT
#76
Sea and Best probably read this ranking and got motivated
IU | Sohyang || There is no God and we are his prophets | For if ‘Thou mayest’—it is also true that ‘Thou mayest not.” | Ignorance is the parent of fear |
BisuDagger
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Bisutopia19239 Posts
January 06 2017 14:25 GMT
#77
On January 06 2017 22:59 The_Red_Viper wrote:
Sea and Best probably read this ranking and got motivated

I'm glad I at least put BeSt in the top 10 (10 ranks higher then TL). Stork, Jaedong, and Guemchi all surprised me though.
ModeratorFormer Afreeca Starleague Caster: http://afreeca.tv/ASL2ENG2
[[Starlight]]
Profile Joined December 2013
United States1578 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-01-18 13:41:30
January 18 2017 13:33 GMT
#78
On January 06 2017 22:59 The_Red_Viper wrote:
Sea and Best probably read this ranking and got motivated

Yup... putting 'em at #12 and #20 respectively was harsh/off, even before they made the semifinals.

Jaedong at only #10 also didn't make any sense, even with only 2 months practice time... but we all know that now, right?

GuemChi deserved higher than #21 too, though with him you can at least see how someone could've thought that was okay... GC is forever underrated. Though maybe that's starting to change now.


User was warned for being hilarious
danielias21
Profile Joined May 2015
39 Posts
January 18 2017 23:05 GMT
#79
those pictures of players are really outdated, like 10 years ago
Crisium
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States1618 Posts
January 19 2017 01:21 GMT
#80
That's not the picture of Terror we now associate with him!
Broodwar and Stork forever! List of BW players with most Ro16, Ro8: http://tinyurl.com/BWRo16-Ro8
iopq
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States924 Posts
January 23 2017 17:03 GMT
#81
On January 18 2017 22:33 [[Starlight]] wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 06 2017 22:59 The_Red_Viper wrote:
Sea and Best probably read this ranking and got motivated

Yup... putting 'em at #12 and #20 respectively was harsh/off, even before they made the semifinals.

Jaedong at only #10 also didn't make any sense, even with only 2 months practice time... but we all know that now, right?

GuemChi deserved higher than #21 too, though with him you can at least see how someone could've thought that was okay... GC is forever underrated. Though maybe that's starting to change now.



2 months practice time? You know he was actually 424/jiko, right?
SirKibbleX
Profile Blog Joined October 2006
United States479 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-01-23 21:27:14
January 23 2017 18:29 GMT
#82
I'm curious what people's speculative power rank top 10 would look like post-ASL. I think Jaedong and Flash as 1-2 is pretty clear.

This is controversial but I actually would still put Best over Sea. I think Best played more good Brood War than Sea did in their match, but that Sea got overwhelmingly lucky time and time again. Also controversially, I think Bisu looked incredibly weak against Sea, so much so that it wasn't primarily Sea's own skill but Bisu's surprisingly poor decisions that made for that loss.

For me it would probably be
1. Flash
2. Jaedong
3. Best
4. Sea
5. Guemchi/Iammong
6. Hero
7. Bisu
8. EffOrt
9. Stork
10. Light
11. Mind
12. Rush
13. Rain

EffOrt got matches in the Ro24 against two of the all-time best Zerg snipers, and so I feel he didn't get to show his true strength, even still generating the legendary EffOrt-Rain game on Circuit Breaker. Likewise Light, a renowned TvZ sniper and very good TvT player got put into a group with three Protoss in the Ro16, not getting to demonstrate his 'true strength'. Stork looked weak in all his wins and got shut down completely by Jaedong's solid play.

I believe a lot of players showed some spectacular games in the Ro24 and Ro16 but just because they didn't advance doesn't mean they aren't among the most powerful players. This is my personal power ranking of the "Lucky 13" of BW right now.


EDIT: Oh wow, I totally forgot about Last. I'd say he's definitely in the top 10 still, maybe above Stork? Definitely above Rush though.
Praemonitus, Praemunitus.
[[Starlight]]
Profile Joined December 2013
United States1578 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-01-23 19:53:38
January 23 2017 19:33 GMT
#83
On January 24 2017 02:03 iopq wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 18 2017 22:33 [[Starlight]] wrote:
On January 06 2017 22:59 The_Red_Viper wrote:
Sea and Best probably read this ranking and got motivated

Yup... putting 'em at #12 and #20 respectively was harsh/off, even before they made the semifinals.

Jaedong at only #10 also didn't make any sense, even with only 2 months practice time... but we all know that now, right?

GuemChi deserved higher than #21 too, though with him you can at least see how someone could've thought that was okay... GC is forever underrated. Though maybe that's starting to change now.



2 months practice time? You know he was actually 424/jiko, right?


All I know is he didn't officially retire from SC2 until November 2016.

If he was playing tons of high-level BW (aka enough high-level BW) for a long time while still officially doing professional SC2, then bully for him... he certainly saw the future, what with Evil Geniuses shutting down their SC2 team just weeks after he left.

Their loss is our gain.
User was warned for being hilarious
[[Starlight]]
Profile Joined December 2013
United States1578 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-01-23 19:42:28
January 23 2017 19:35 GMT
#84
On January 24 2017 03:29 SirKibbleX wrote:
I'm curious what people's speculative power rank top 10 would look like post-ASL. I think Jaedong and Flash as 1-2 is pretty clear.

This is controversial but I actually would still put Best over Sea. I think Best played more good Brood War than Sea did in their match, but that Sea got overwhelmingly lucky time and time again. Also controversially, I think Bisu looked incredibly weak against Sea, so much so that it wasn't primarily Sea's own skill but Bisu's surprisingly poor decisions that made for that loss.

For me it would probably be
1. Flash
2. Jaedong
3. Best
4. Sea
5. Guemchi/Iammong
6. Hero
7. Bisu
8. EffOrt
9. Stork
10. Light
11. Mind
12. Rush
13. Rain

EffOrt got matches in the Ro24 against two of the all-time best Zerg snipers, and so I feel he didn't get to show his true strength, even still generating the legendary EffOrt-Rain game on Circuit Breaker. Likewise Light, a renowned TvZ sniper and very good TvT player got put into a group with three Protoss in the Ro16, not getting to demonstrate his 'true strength'. Stork looked weak in all his wins and got shut down completely by Jaedong's solid play.

I believe a lot of players showed some spectacular games in the Ro24 and Ro16 but just because they didn't advance doesn't mean they aren't among the most powerful players. This is my personal power ranking of the "Lucky 13" of BW right now.


That list is certainly in the ballpark, though I'm sure some will argue over the relative placings of Best vs Sea.

Though, I wouldn't... I think a Best vs Flash final might've been a little bit closer than Sea vs Flash was. Sea played like he was scared of Flash, which while understandable, probably guarantees a loss.

Also, while I dig GuemChi and think he's terminally underrated, not sure if he's quite Top 5 yet. Top 10, sure.


User was warned for being hilarious
Ziggy
Profile Blog Joined June 2013
South Korea2105 Posts
January 23 2017 19:49 GMT
#85
Sea's psyche failed him after game 2, he was far too confident after holding that rush on Circuit Breaker and that poor mentality permeated throughout the rest of the game and then map 4 as well.
WriterDefeating a sandwich only makes it tastier. @imjustziggy
StylishVODs
Profile Joined December 2005
Sweden5331 Posts
January 23 2017 20:08 GMT
#86
I wouldn't put JaeDong as #2 yet though. He needs more time. Getting past some terrans BBS'ing into 9 pool and beating Stork isn't enough yet. He did put up a nice fight against FlaSh, especially in game 1, but it was clear that his play was still lacking. I'm sure he'll get there eventually but lets give him a couple of more months before that.
According to Reach, he is the fastest learner he has ever seen. He start bw only like 2/3 years ago. Infact, his bw history knowledge is so limited, he didn't even know what the map Guillotine was.
[[Starlight]]
Profile Joined December 2013
United States1578 Posts
January 23 2017 20:46 GMT
#87
On January 24 2017 05:08 StylishVODs wrote:
I wouldn't put JaeDong as #2 yet though. He needs more time. Getting past some terrans BBS'ing into 9 pool and beating Stork isn't enough yet. He did put up a nice fight against FlaSh, especially in game 1, but it was clear that his play was still lacking. I'm sure he'll get there eventually but lets give him a couple of more months before that.

Best did beat him twice, true.

User was warned for being hilarious
SirKibbleX
Profile Blog Joined October 2006
United States479 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-01-23 21:22:39
January 23 2017 21:21 GMT
#88
I'm also not sure if this is a 'real' thing or not, but I feel like regardless of everything else, this was a really bad league for ZvP. In the whole ASL there were 18 PvZ - of those Zerg only won 5. If you take out Jaedong's 3-0 of Stork, where Stork was obviously totally outclassed, it's only 2/15 or a 13% winrate for Z.

Honestly I think in the current meta, and given the large Protoss presence in the league, the map pool really did not work out well for Z. Maybe the pool of Z players is just too shallow with EffOrt having been eliminated early, but it really seems like ZvP is in a pretty tough place, at least on these maps. Do you guys think this is a Meta issue or just the maps, or is the current pool of Zergs really just under-powered compared to protoss?
Praemonitus, Praemunitus.
classicyellow83
Profile Joined June 2016
United States2393 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-01-23 21:41:01
January 23 2017 21:37 GMT
#89
On January 24 2017 06:21 SirKibbleX wrote:
I'm also not sure if this is a 'real' thing or not, but I feel like regardless of everything else, this was a really bad league for ZvP. In the whole ASL there were 18 PvZ - of those Zerg only won 5. If you take out Jaedong's 3-0 of Stork, where Stork was obviously totally outclassed, it's only 2/15 or a 13% winrate for Z.

Honestly I think in the current meta, and given the large Protoss presence in the league, the map pool really did not work out well for Z. Maybe the pool of Z players is just too shallow with EffOrt having been eliminated early, but it really seems like ZvP is in a pretty tough place, at least on these maps. Do you guys think this is a Meta issue or just the maps, or is the current pool of Zergs really just under-powered compared to protoss?

No. Only Bisu has winning record against Zerg. 6 Zergs have over 60% win rate against Protoss.
Reach!!! Come back to BW!!
neobowman
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Canada3324 Posts
January 23 2017 21:37 GMT
#90
Small sample size. Don't worry about 1 tournament. And when analyzing stuff like this, you can't just take out something like the Stork vs. Jaedong series for a reason like that.
HyralGambit
Profile Joined February 2014
2439 Posts
January 23 2017 22:07 GMT
#91
Post ASL Rankings:

1. Flash
2. Jaedong
3. BeSt
4. Sea
5. Bisu

Not sure about 6-10 though, the Ro8 matches were one sided and some of the Ro16 knock outs could be top 10... hm...
Passion overcomes corporate stupidity: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jX9hbbA-WP4#t=4h2m
[[Starlight]]
Profile Joined December 2013
United States1578 Posts
January 23 2017 22:25 GMT
#92
On January 24 2017 07:07 HyralGambit wrote:
Post ASL Rankings:

1. Flash
2. Jaedong
3. BeSt
4. Sea
5. Bisu

Not sure about 6-10 though, the Ro8 matches were one sided and some of the Ro16 knock outs could be top 10... hm...

Does Bisu deserve #5 after being completely outclassed by Sea, though.

As in, 'not even close'.


User was warned for being hilarious
TheNewEra
Profile Joined March 2011
Germany3128 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-01-24 04:32:38
January 24 2017 04:29 GMT
#93
On January 24 2017 07:07 HyralGambit wrote:
Post ASL Rankings:

1. Flash
2. Jaedong
3. BeSt
4. Sea
5. Bisu

Not sure about 6-10 though, the Ro8 matches were one sided and some of the Ro16 knock outs could be top 10... hm...

How does everyone get to the conclusion that Jaedong should be 2nd already?

1. Flash is obvious

But why not Sea or BeSt over Jaedong? Atleast BeSt needs to be placed higher than JD after this ASL.

BeSt for example has shown us probably the best macro after Flash this season and the best games with only two big mistakes against Sea.

Sea reached the ASL finals for a reason and had the mental fortitude to defeat BeSt capitalizing on every mistake of BeSt due to his killer instinct.

You can argue that Sea managed to only advance in 2nd, defeated a horrible Bisu and then again won over a player who made terrible mistakes but JD's run also wasn't the most stellar one.
May I remind you that JD advanced 2x times in 2nd place, in both cases behind BeSt, after losing to him? He also beat a Stork who was playing even worse than Bisu did against Sea. And as said before BeSt finished the groups 2x times in 1st place and afterwards defeated hero who atleast wasn't as much of a mess as Stork and Bisu were.

I think the more appropriate Power Rank would look like this:
1. Flash
2. BeSt
3./4. Sea/Jaedong <--- and even here I would probably give it to Sea.

Now if Jaedong keeps practising as hard as he does currently he probably is gonna be 2nd, maybe even 1st, at some point again but I don't think he's quite there yet. Just because he has the potential doesn't mean he's currently stronger than some of the other players.
Midas <3 Casy <3 BeSt <3 | Pray to Doh-men, heathens! | Zwischen Harz und Heideland
Normal
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 12m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Harstem 174
Rex 32
ProTech30
StarCraft: Brood War
Calm 18569
Sea 3122
Hyuk 1462
GuemChi 955
ggaemo 820
Barracks 786
Flash 644
EffOrt 410
actioN 404
Zeus 365
[ Show more ]
Soulkey 245
Pusan 193
Mind 192
TY 178
Mong 176
Nal_rA 168
ZerO 153
Killer 147
Soma 135
Rush 76
Backho 42
sSak 39
sorry 34
Sharp 23
JulyZerg 12
Bale 10
scan(afreeca) 5
Dota 2
XcaliburYe345
BananaSlamJamma307
Fuzer 185
Counter-Strike
olofmeister2497
ScreaM2357
shoxiejesuss904
x6flipin460
allub305
Other Games
singsing1374
Happy299
Pyrionflax253
crisheroes248
XaKoH 242
SortOf174
B2W.Neo72
JuggernautJason42
Lowko39
ArmadaUGS24
ZerO(Twitch)16
Organizations
StarCraft 2
WardiTV26
StarCraft: Brood War
lovetv 16
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 14 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• StrangeGG 73
• davetesta32
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• iopq 5
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Jankos1089
Upcoming Events
Wardi Open
12m
RotterdaM Event
5h 12m
OSC
13h 12m
WardiTV Summer Champion…
1d
WardiTV Summer Champion…
1d 4h
PiGosaur Monday
1d 13h
WardiTV Summer Champion…
2 days
Stormgate Nexus
2 days
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
2 days
The PondCast
2 days
[ Show More ]
WardiTV Summer Champion…
3 days
Replay Cast
3 days
LiuLi Cup
4 days
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
4 days
RSL Revival
4 days
RSL Revival
4 days
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
5 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
5 days
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

ASL Season 20: Qualifier #2
FEL Cracow 2025
CC Div. A S7

Ongoing

Copa Latinoamericana 4
Jiahua Invitational
BSL 20 Team Wars
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 3
BSL 21 Qualifiers
HCC Europe
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025

Upcoming

ASL Season 20
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
BSL Season 21
BSL 21 Team A
RSL Revival: Season 2
Maestros of the Game
SEL Season 2 Championship
WardiTV Summer 2025
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
Thunderpick World Champ.
MESA Nomadic Masters Fall
CS Asia Championships 2025
Roobet Cup 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.