On January 21 2016 08:24 Cele wrote: you can say about savior a lot of things, but not that he wasn't talented. So no Effort definitely not #2 Zerg. But Tastosis had some other inaccuracies in their cast, like saying Queens are not used in competitive play, when we see them actually quite often vs Tvz Mech.
As much as i hate to say it as a Bisu fan, naming him the #1 Protoss is also most likely not right. Stork was a more consistent Protoss in my mind, while Bisu had greater "peaks of glory" so to speak, plus revolutionizing PvZ
It's hard to think of Stork as the better player when I remember their epic 5 game finals where Bisu came out ahead at the end. Even though it was so close. Ultimately Bisu captures glory because he, like Jaedong and Flash, are especially strong in the match up which is supposed to be hardest for their race. Stork belongs with the 4 kings because he was competitive with all three of them, but he himself had mental blocks and was a silver surfer, winning only a WCG and an OSL vs Fantasy (who is in his own right a silver surfer of immense talent that won vs Stork later). Bisu's handsome collection of MSL victories and several victories vs Stork in the finals of tournaments of less caliber earns him a lot of respect, not just for his PvZ vs Savior but for victory after victory over multiple years, even if he did sometimes have months where he struggled.
I think it's merely contrarian to call Stork stronger, when Stork's record is Bisu's but replace gold medals with silver. Consistent except in the most important games called OSL and MSL finals which hold all the weight when calling a player strongest.
On January 21 2016 08:24 Cele wrote: you can say about savior a lot of things, but not that he wasn't talented. So no Effort definitely not #2 Zerg. But Tastosis had some other inaccuracies in their cast, like saying Queens are not used in competitive play, when we see them actually quite often vs Tvz Mech.
As much as i hate to say it as a Bisu fan, naming him the #1 Protoss is also most likely not right. Stork was a more consistent Protoss in my mind, while Bisu had greater "peaks of glory" so to speak, plus revolutionizing PvZ
Bisu had the most wins in prologue almost every year and had most wins as protoss consistently every year. Stork had more consistent individual league results, but really Bisu is GOAT. We can get stat specific if we need too :D
On January 21 2016 02:00 amazingxkcd wrote: we'll be casting
Looking forward for it. My only issue with your casting is the background sound is silent, we can't hear in game music and sounds
If you can't hear the game volume, by all means yell it in chat. Our production can only be as good as viewers tell us. Every cast our feed projects at a different volume and we rely on viewers to help us. Between games there is no volume on the feed which was the alternative to talking over korean voices. Unfortunately there is no better solution there.
On January 21 2016 08:24 Cele wrote: you can say about savior a lot of things, but not that he wasn't talented. So no Effort definitely not #2 Zerg. But Tastosis had some other inaccuracies in their cast, like saying Queens are not used in competitive play, when we see them actually quite often vs Tvz Mech.
As much as i hate to say it as a Bisu fan, naming him the #1 Protoss is also most likely not right. Stork was a more consistent Protoss in my mind, while Bisu had greater "peaks of glory" so to speak, plus revolutionizing PvZ
EffOrt, in absolutely terms, is far far better than Savior ever was. Savior, in his era, was admittedly vastly superior to EffOrt in his.
All depends on what you're referring to. If you mean absolute skill and/or the last 3 years of BW, then EffOrt is undisputed #2. I wouldn't quite put him up there with Jaedong, but honestly I really think EffOrt was on the cusp of deserving a spot in TBLS.
As much as i hate to say it as a Bisu fan, naming him the #1 Protoss is also most likely not right. Stork was a more consistent Protoss in my mind, while Bisu had greater "peaks of glory" so to speak, plus revolutionizing PvZ
Eh, don't really feel that argument:
Bisu, in absolute skill, was much better than Stork.
Bisu totally redefined PvZ, winning a finals against the best zerg during a history of zerg domination. That alone does not a #1 make, but it certainly is a HUGE point in favor of Bisu.
Bisu won 3 majors (5 decent titles adding in a WCG and GOM), one the aforementioned unique victory, Stork just one.
Bisu held a better record than Stork in all 3 matchups, as well as a 6% overall better winning percentage (66 vs 60).
Bisu took his team to more PL titles.
Consistency might be the only thing you could argue in favor of Stork, but that's a meaningless shadow against the rest. Equally as important, I'm not even sure that's born out in reality. Bisu's overall win rate rather stands against that point, and if you go back and look you can't really find a point in Bisu's career where he did especially worst than than 60-70% range.
Was a bit surprised that they weren't expecting any Hive tech ZvZ from Zero. Made him seem like a bit of an underdog even though he's beaten Jaedong in Bo5s (wasn't that in the ABC Mart MSL?) as well.
Glad to see that they are passionate about BW still, bit disappointed that there was no mention of a gaggle of Score-ge :D
On January 19 2016 13:32 duke91 wrote: Blizz actively tried to kill BW for the last years. For so many years they couldnt even fix the official b.net server, so people cannot host or join without waiting minutes, or create games without port forwarding. Also the licensing fees on OGN
Will they care now LoTV is out? Their income from SC2 will be way lower with no expansions coming out anymore
I think they will drop support for SC2 soon (though they will here and there try to appear as if they care still) and so they won't harass the BW scene as much anymore.
wat? Why would they drop support for SC2? Their esports division is getting bigger and bigger, and they are selling map packs so they're financially invested in the game.
On January 21 2016 08:24 Cele wrote: you can say about savior a lot of things, but not that he wasn't talented. So no Effort definitely not #2 Zerg. But Tastosis had some other inaccuracies in their cast, like saying Queens are not used in competitive play, when we see them actually quite often vs Tvz Mech.
As much as i hate to say it as a Bisu fan, naming him the #1 Protoss is also most likely not right. Stork was a more consistent Protoss in my mind, while Bisu had greater "peaks of glory" so to speak, plus revolutionizing PvZ
EffOrt, in absolutely terms, is far far better than Savior ever was. Savior, in his era, was admittedly vastly superior to EffOrt in his.
All depends on what you're referring to. If you mean absolute skill and/or the last 3 years of BW, then EffOrt is undisputed #2. I wouldn't quite put him up there with Jaedong, but honestly I really think EffOrt was on the cusp of deserving a spot in TBLS.
As much as i hate to say it as a Bisu fan, naming him the #1 Protoss is also most likely not right. Stork was a more consistent Protoss in my mind, while Bisu had greater "peaks of glory" so to speak, plus revolutionizing PvZ
Eh, don't really feel that argument:
Bisu, in absolute skill, was much better than Stork.
Bisu totally redefined PvZ, winning a finals against the best zerg during a history of zerg domination. That alone does not a #1 make, but it certainly is a HUGE point in favor of Bisu.
Bisu won 3 majors (5 decent titles adding in a WCG and GOM), one the aforementioned unique victory, Stork just one.
Bisu held a better record than Stork in all 3 matchups, as well as a 6% overall better winning percentage (66 vs 60).
Bisu took his team to more PL titles.
Consistency might be the only thing you could argue in favor of Stork, but that's a meaningless shadow against the rest. Equally as important, I'm not even sure that's born out in reality. Bisu's overall win rate rather stands against that point, and if you go back and look you can't really find a point in Bisu's career where he did especially worst than than 60-70% range.
Just want to make one quick correction: there is no history of Zerg domination. There was only Savior domination.
Unless you mean ZvP domination, in which case your statement holds some water. Protoss strategies were stale and solved by Savior at that point. Bisu brought la revolucion.
On January 21 2016 08:24 Cele wrote: you can say about savior a lot of things, but not that he wasn't talented. So no Effort definitely not #2 Zerg. But Tastosis had some other inaccuracies in their cast, like saying Queens are not used in competitive play, when we see them actually quite often vs Tvz Mech.
As much as i hate to say it as a Bisu fan, naming him the #1 Protoss is also most likely not right. Stork was a more consistent Protoss in my mind, while Bisu had greater "peaks of glory" so to speak, plus revolutionizing PvZ
Their comment about queens kinda makes sense given how they switched over to sc2 in 2010, and as far as I know mass queen use against mech in TvZ didn't really blossom until 2011. I think their casts will only get better the more that they are able to do them hopefully.
I don't know if I would call it bloom and I don't know the years when what happened but...
1. Jaedong used Queens sometimes against terran, even bio. There is a really cool game of him against Hwasin on Sin Chupung where he used ensnare against bio.
2. Zero and Soulkey regularly began using Queens against mech far before everyone else did. Dunno if that was in 2011 or 2010 though. They were the only ones who did it regularly in the days of professional broodwar though.
On January 13 2016 19:52 Endymion wrote: didnt artosis say that sc2 was more strategically deep than scbw? lmfao, i hope tasteless comes back but tbh artosis just jumps where the money is... afreeca should get little 작은 수지 instead, if she wants to come back...
Yes, but you misunderstood him. By more strategically deep he means strategy has more weight than skill. In bw a skilled player can overcome any strategical disadvantage.
Also he means that sc2 is strategically more diverse than bw. In bw you play often the same strategy over and over again. Sometimes you make a timing attack but thats really rare.
On the other side bw is tactically rich and early-, mid- and lategame have often distinct compositions.
To all: I dont understand the need to talk sc2 bad because sc2 is just as good as bw, maybe even better in some points. The majority of sc2 plays 1vs1 (at least in ladder) while the majority of bw plays casual mods. Thats because sc2 1vs1 is more fun than bw 1vs1 (or do you play things which you dont enjoy). In bw teamgames were more fun.
Also gaming environment has changed, the competition and technology is different. You cant really say which game is better. But people who act like bw is the greatest game on earth and bash on sc2, should ask them-self why the majority in korea plays lol over bw. Lol got even bigger than bw ever was. The popularity of bw is nothing compared to its past or to lol.
I dont bash games here, i just talk about facts. Sc2 is the best rts we have and bw was a great game for its time which set new standards and helped to create e-sport in korea but in todays gaming environment its not a competition anymore. If bw wasnt famous i am not sure how much recognition it would get.
I remember the days when I described either Bisu or Stork as "one half of the greatest Protoss to have played the game [in the modern era.]" These days when I describe Bisu as the greatest Protoss to my friends, it's only because Stork hasn't come back yet.
On January 13 2016 19:52 Endymion wrote: didnt artosis say that sc2 was more strategically deep than scbw? lmfao, i hope tasteless comes back but tbh artosis just jumps where the money is... afreeca should get little 작은 수지 instead, if she wants to come back...
Yes, but you misunderstood him. By more strategically deep he means strategy has more weight than skill. In bw a skilled player can overcome any strategical disadvantage.
Also he means that sc2 is strategically more diverse than bw. In bw you play often the same strategy over and over again. Sometimes you make a timing attack but thats really rare.
On the other side bw is tactically rich and early-, mid- and lategame have often distinct compositions.
To all: I dont understand the need to talk sc2 bad because sc2 is just as good as bw, maybe even better in some points. The majority of sc2 plays 1vs1 (at least in ladder) while the majority of bw plays casual mods. Thats because sc2 1vs1 is more fun than bw 1vs1 (or do you play things which you dont enjoy). In bw teamgames were more fun.
Also gaming environment has changed, the competition and technology is different. You cant really say which game is better. But people who act like bw is the greatest game on earth and bash on sc2, should ask them-self why the majority in korea plays lol over bw. Lol got even bigger than bw ever was. The popularity of bw is nothing compared to its past or to lol.
I dont bash games here, i just talk about facts. Sc2 is the best rts we have and bw was a great game for its time which set new standards and helped to create e-sport in korea but in todays gaming environment its not a competition anymore. If bw wasnt famous i am not sure how much recognition it would get.
You realise that the reason for LoL being so popular is a combination of very easy entry (easy to learn, no upfront cost, low on pc demand etc.) and the fact that Riot is pumping tons of money into the pro scene?
Sorry don't really have time to go through the entire thread, so what's happening to BisuDagger now? I know he won't say much due to NDA, but can someone plz gimme a breakdown of the situation? Thanks in advance.
On January 21 2016 19:07 jimminy_kriket wrote: Are they casting tonights games Zero vs Sharp?
Nope. Finals should still have Tastosis though.
If you enter the thread, you will find the english cast from Bisudagger and xkcd if you are interested.
It is really cool, I just wish they had more control, using the Korean cast, they are forced to keep it semi-mute so they can cast, but that also means no music or in game sounds....
On January 21 2016 19:53 EngrishTeacher wrote: Sorry don't really have time to go through the entire thread, so what's happening to BisuDagger now? I know he won't say much due to NDA, but can someone plz gimme a breakdown of the situation? Thanks in advance.
didnt artosis say that sc2 was more strategically deep than scbw? lmfao, i hope tasteless comes back but tbh artosis just jumps where the money is... afreeca should get little 작은 수지 instead, if she wants to come back...
Yes, but you misunderstood him. By more strategically deep he means strategy has more weight than skill. In bw a skilled player can overcome any strategical disadvantage.
Also he means that sc2 is strategically more diverse than bw. In bw you play often the same strategy over and over again. Sometimes you make a timing attack but thats really rare.
On the other side bw is tactically rich and early-, mid- and lategame have often distinct compositions.
To all: I dont understand the need to talk sc2 bad because sc2 is just as good as bw, maybe even better in some points. The majority of sc2 plays 1vs1 (at least in ladder) while the majority of bw plays casual mods. Thats because sc2 1vs1 is more fun than bw 1vs1 (or do you play things which you dont enjoy). In bw teamgames were more fun.
Also gaming environment has changed, the competition and technology is different. You cant really say which game is better. But people who act like bw is the greatest game on earth and bash on sc2, should ask them-self why the majority in korea plays lol over bw. Lol got even bigger than bw ever was. The popularity of bw is nothing compared to its past or to lol.
I dont bash games here, i just talk about facts. Sc2 is the best rts we have and bw was a great game for its time which set new standards and helped to create e-sport in korea but in todays gaming environment its not a competition anymore. If bw wasnt famous i am not sure how much recognition it would get.
EPT
