Bisu showed his assigned date and was saying "how do I postpone this............." over and over
From snipealot: If he applies to get it postponed it's pretty much down to how lucky he gets He has no 'true' grounds for postponement There are ways to get around the draft though but I think it's too late when that letter comes You can be proactive -- I think Pusan was active getting it postponed over and over Maybe Sonic can work his magic - he has made a lot of powerful friends
We shall see if a deferral is a possibility, but Bisu leaving now for 1.5-2 years would definitely be a game changer to the post-KeSPA scene...
Lots of implications for the future, but just for the time being, SSL 11 Ro16 won't begin until July 8, and certainly won't complete by July 21
On June 09 2015 07:35 2Pacalypse- wrote: Didn't someone say that Koreans can pretty much postpone enlistment until their 30s. Is that only the case if they have a valid reason to postpone it?
yup thats sorta how it works. if you go to their site theres a huge list of things you can apply for postponement. some of them are a couple weeks, some are a couple months to a year. Pusan got his letter around oct/nov 2012 and he delayed it for quite a bit
I'm sure he can postpone at least until the end of the OSL. He is also still a couple years away from age max. I've known this was coming and honestly just want him to get it over with.
On June 09 2015 12:20 BisuDagger wrote: I'm sure he can postpone at least until the end of the OSL. He is also still a couple years away from age max. I've known this was coming and honestly just want him to get it over with.
Alternatively: someone shoot him in the foot.
I second this! SOMEONE FIND HIM AND AMPUTATE THAT FOOT
On June 09 2015 12:20 BisuDagger wrote: I'm sure he can postpone at least until the end of the OSL. He is also still a couple years away from age max. I've known this was coming and honestly just want him to get it over with.
Alternatively: someone shoot him in the foot.
I second this! SOMEONE FIND HIM AND AMPUTATE THAT FOOT
I'll do it! I have a sword and can keep his foot frozen to gaze at longingly from my bed.
On June 09 2015 07:35 2Pacalypse- wrote: Didn't someone say that Koreans can pretty much postpone enlistment until their 30s. Is that only the case if they have a valid reason to postpone it?
yup thats sorta how it works. if you go to their site theres a huge list of things you can apply for postponement. some of them are a couple weeks, some are a couple months to a year. Pusan got his letter around oct/nov 2012 and he delayed it for quite a bit
Good to know! Hopefully that means at least deferring until after SSL! If not also the HungryApp SL
Is it probable they'll delay it because of overcrowding? I'm familiar of people like Taeja in SC2, who planned to enter the service, but they were crowded so he was able to keep on playing.
On June 09 2015 12:20 BisuDagger wrote: I'm sure he can postpone at least until the end of the OSL. He is also still a couple years away from age max. I've known this was coming and honestly just want him to get it over with.
On June 09 2015 18:14 [[Starlight]] wrote: If only we could convince Kim Jong Un to quit being an asshole, there'd be no need for any of this.
I wrote a Starcraft 1 fanfic where Luxury and Yarnc were actually North Koreans sent across country lines to bring down South Korea by destroying Brood War.. I should post it on TL sometime.
On June 09 2015 18:14 [[Starlight]] wrote: If only we could convince Kim Jong Un to quit being an asshole, there'd be no need for any of this.
I wrote a Starcraft 1 fanfic where Luxury and Yarnc were actually North Koreans sent across country lines to bring down South Korea by destroying Brood War...
Nooooooooooooooooooooo. Screw Military service ;_;
It doesn't make any sense even with NK on the border, because modern armies simply don't work with conscripts anymore and despite NKs huge military they wouldn't stand a chance in conventional modern warfare. Training people to fight a war is so stupid.
On June 09 2015 21:49 Qikz wrote: Nooooooooooooooooooooo. Screw Military service ;_;
It doesn't make any sense even with NK on the border, because modern armies simply don't work with conscripts anymore and despite NKs huge military they wouldn't stand a chance in conventional modern warfare. Training people to fight a war is so stupid.
Imagine the images we can post in the Nada's body thread!
im kinda of semi sure that kespa made ACE so that Boxer could go on playing broodwar. Times have changed but maybe we could see something like that again with Bisu ?
On June 09 2015 22:43 heynes wrote: im kinda of semi sure that kespa made ACE so that Boxer could go on playing broodwar. Times have changed but maybe we could see something like that again with Bisu ?
You are correct in saying that ACE was made so that BoxeR didn't have to retire, but I don't think that StarCraft exists as a vocation to the point where there could be support for Bisu to keep playing competitive StarCraft with the current amateur scene.
On June 09 2015 18:14 [[Starlight]] wrote: If only we could convince Kim Jong Un to quit being an asshole, there'd be no need for any of this.
I wrote a Starcraft 1 fanfic where Luxury and Yarnc were actually North Koreans sent across country lines to bring down South Korea by destroying Brood War.. I should post it on TL sometime.
On June 09 2015 21:49 Qikz wrote: Nooooooooooooooooooooo. Screw Military service ;_;
It doesn't make any sense even with NK on the border, because modern armies simply don't work with conscripts anymore and despite NKs huge military they wouldn't stand a chance in conventional modern warfare. Training people to fight a war is so stupid.
This is more than just "North Korea will not win the war", including Korean society (and how military is just part of it now so all men 'grow up' or something)
On June 09 2015 22:43 heynes wrote: im kinda of semi sure that kespa made ACE so that Boxer could go on playing broodwar. Times have changed but maybe we could see something like that again with Bisu ?
On June 09 2015 22:06 Shock710 wrote: i have to say i am curious to how fast bisu will bounce back after years of not playing at all
Nada seems to be doing just fine and seeing how quickly he came back to form after SC2 I wouldn't be to worried. Him be gone will heavy impact on the overall scene. He's the only true S-Class god active on the scene. Unless someone like Nada returns to Nada level form, media attention will take a slight hit.
On June 09 2015 22:06 Shock710 wrote: i have to say i am curious to how fast bisu will bounce back after years of not playing at all
actually you can still play BW during army period(if your duty is light enough), just that you cannot stream without explicit permission
mini is still seen playing in fish server occasionally despite being in the army now
On June 09 2015 23:00 BisuDagger wrote: Nada seems to be doing just fine and seeing how quickly he came back to form after SC2 I wouldn't be to worried. Him be gone will heavy impact on the overall scene. He's the only true S-Class god active on the scene. Unless someone like Nada returns to Nada level form, media attention will take a slight hit.
i think nada did practice for a bit during his army period, his mechanics seem a bit too sharp to have not supposedly played for ~2 years
How does serving in the Korean Armed Forces work? Is it a full-time 24/7 you're-in-the-barracks sort of gig except on certain days, or is it more of a 9-5 type of job for the guys who are only in the army because they have to be?
The regular Korean military is 21 months with a full 24/7 gig in the barracks with occasional vacations along the way. You have a 30~days of breaks that is for certain, but can get more by getting awards along the way.
There are other programs that are 9-5, but those are for the people who have physical/mental disabilities.
In my opinion Korea has the military service (these days) because most Koreans before then are stuck in the Korean educational system 24/7 and have no room to actually explore other avenues of life, so may tend to be immature. So it's a nice way to grow up and also get used to the corporate structure that you WILL face when you get a job in Korea.
Source : I finished my compulsory service about 4 months ago. HUE
On June 09 2015 23:06 IntoTheheart wrote: How does serving in the Korean Armed Forces work? Is it a full-time 24/7 you're-in-the-barracks sort of gig except on certain days, or is it more of a 9-5 type of job for the guys who are only in the army because they have to be?
it depends on your fitness condition,
if you are fully fit then you will do some outfield vocation that requires long periods of in camp stay
if you have some preexisting debilitating medical condition/chronic illness then you would do something clerical/office work which is usually a 9-5 job without having to stay in camp. you would have more time to do other things, like taking enrichment classes or playing BW for a bit, just with restrictions like not taking another job or earn money somewhere else (afreeca streaming) currently people like BeSt belong in this category
source: not korea but did conscription in another country...
On June 09 2015 23:12 UTL_Unlimited wrote: The regular Korean military is 21 months with a full 24/7 gig in the barracks with occasional vacations along the way. You have a 30~days of breaks that is for certain, but can get more by getting awards along the way.
There are other programs that are 9-5, but those are for the people who have physical/mental disabilities.
In my opinion Korea has the military service (these days) because most Koreans before then are stuck in the Korean educational system 24/7 and have no room to actually explore other avenues of life, so may tend to be immature. So it's a nice way to grow up and also get used to the corporate structure that you WILL face when you get a job in Korea.
Source : I finished my compulsory service about 4 months ago. HUE
Thanks for the insight, and congrats on finishing the service! :D A hyung/classmate of mine also did it, and he seemed to be unshakable at university.
On June 09 2015 23:06 IntoTheheart wrote: How does serving in the Korean Armed Forces work? Is it a full-time 24/7 you're-in-the-barracks sort of gig except on certain days, or is it more of a 9-5 type of job for the guys who are only in the army because they have to be?
it depends on your fitness condition,
if you are fully fit then you will do some outfield vocation that requires long periods of in camp stay
if you have some preexisting debilitating medical condition/chronic illness then you would do something clerical/office work which is usually a 9-5 job without having to stay in camp. you would have more time to do other things, like taking enrichment classes or playing BW for a bit, just with restrictions like not taking another job or earn money somewhere else (afreeca streaming) currently people like BeSt belong in this category
source: not korea but did conscription in another country...
Ah okay, thanks! I'm sure that iloveoov fell into this camp. Does anyone know whether or not Bisu had any significant physical problems?
What I could find regarding methods to postpone military service in Korea:
Method / Period
Mental or physical illness - up to 60 days Family crisis / death - up to 30 days Natural disaster - up to 60 days National service exam - until results are in Planned and approved stay abroad - varies University entrance exam - varies Sibling currently in service - up to 1 year Various exams (doctors, governmental, etc) - until results are in (up to 1 year) GED Exams - until results are in (either may or august of this year) Juducial trainee - until 28 years of age (1 year at a time) Vocational trainee - until graduation Vocational college student - until graduation (if graduating within one year and under the age of 29) University student - until graduation Irreplaceable public worker / official figure - 1 year at a time pending reevaluation Fostering children - until the child turns 6 years old (1 year at a time) Other unavoidable circumstances - 3 months at a time pending reevaluation
Edit: Perhaps one of the Koreans in the thread can shed some light on this. It looks surprisingly difficult to postpone considering all the afreeca streamers postponing their service.
Kingdom had a bust shoulder due to kendo. iloveoov had slipped in the shower and had a long rehabilitation from memory. Nal_rA had bad eyesight (but he's fine now)
On June 09 2015 23:31 GTR wrote: Kingdom had a bust shoulder due to kendo. iloveoov had slipped in the shower and had a long rehabilitation from memory. Nal_rA had bad eyesight (but he's fine now)
On June 09 2015 23:31 GTR wrote: Kingdom had a bust shoulder due to kendo. iloveoov had slipped in the shower and had a long rehabilitation from memory. Nal_rA had bad eyesight (but he's fine now)
On June 09 2015 18:14 [[Starlight]] wrote: If only we could convince Kim Jong Un to quit being an asshole, there'd be no need for any of this.
I wrote a Starcraft 1 fanfic where Luxury and Yarnc were actually North Koreans sent across country lines to bring down South Korea by destroying Brood War...
That comment about bisu's fabulousness is so hilarious yet so true hahaha
But this is sad news... i hope he can still defer it and win ssl first before going to military. I know this day will come but didn't realize that it's happening this soon.
Maybe he can move away form Korea to USA or another country and postpone the military for ever? I hate obligatory military, fucking nonsense waste of money and humans.
On June 10 2015 01:18 No_eL wrote: Maybe he can move away form Korea to USA or another country and postpone the military for ever? I hate obligatory military, fucking nonsense waste of money and humans.
And then he wouldn't be allowed back into Korea for draft dodging. SK doesn't take lightly to people purposely avoiding enlistment. Steve Yoo (ex-KPop star) got US Citizenship in 2002 right before he was due to enlist, the SK government saw that as desertion and banned him from entering the country. He was recently begging for forgiveness and wanted to be able to go back to Korea but the government have been pretty set on denying him entry.
On June 09 2015 23:06 IntoTheheart wrote: How does serving in the Korean Armed Forces work? Is it a full-time 24/7 you're-in-the-barracks sort of gig except on certain days, or is it more of a 9-5 type of job for the guys who are only in the army because they have to be?
it depends on your fitness condition,
if you are fully fit then you will do some outfield vocation that requires long periods of in camp stay
if you have some preexisting debilitating medical condition/chronic illness then you would do something clerical/office work which is usually a 9-5 job without having to stay in camp. you would have more time to do other things, like taking enrichment classes or playing BW for a bit, just with restrictions like not taking another job or earn money somewhere else (afreeca streaming) currently people like BeSt belong in this category
source: not korea but did conscription in another country...
but... best is a freaking monster. pretty sure he belongs in the camp stay if not lifting the entirety of NK and throwing it into the ocean. im pretty sure the combination of Nada's Body, BeSt, and Reach would be able to do it.
cheesing out Icarus and Larva during SSL group C Pretty sure some recurter was watching those games and was like "fuck this cheesy toss, Im calling his number up!"
There are tons of ways that is listed in order to dodge, that's for certain. But the most certain one for postponement that works the best is usually in regards to education/college. If there's exams and stuff, then the government is pretty lenient. But other than that, it's pretty hard to dodge. One of my friends graduated from Yonsei University this year but couldn't attend his FUCKING GRADUATION because his draft was early April and his graduation was late April. He tried to postpone it but because it wasn't 'anything important', they didn't allow it.
If you go to another country with the appearance of trying to avoid the military, the Korean news goes ape-shit crazy. There's a few celebrities who were basically publicly killed off from their careers because they tried to dodge the service. It's seen as a very bad thing to do.
On June 09 2015 23:06 IntoTheheart wrote: How does serving in the Korean Armed Forces work? Is it a full-time 24/7 you're-in-the-barracks sort of gig except on certain days, or is it more of a 9-5 type of job for the guys who are only in the army because they have to be?
it depends on your fitness condition,
if you are fully fit then you will do some outfield vocation that requires long periods of in camp stay
if you have some preexisting debilitating medical condition/chronic illness then you would do something clerical/office work which is usually a 9-5 job without having to stay in camp. you would have more time to do other things, like taking enrichment classes or playing BW for a bit, just with restrictions like not taking another job or earn money somewhere else (afreeca streaming) currently people like BeSt belong in this category
source: not korea but did conscription in another country...
but... best is a freaking monster. pretty sure he belongs in the camp stay if not lifting the entirety of NK and throwing it into the ocean. im pretty sure the combination of Nada's Body, BeSt, and Reach would be able to do it.
On June 09 2015 23:12 UTL_Unlimited wrote: The regular Korean military is 21 months with a full 24/7 gig in the barracks with occasional vacations along the way. You have a 30~days of breaks that is for certain, but can get more by getting awards along the way.
There are other programs that are 9-5, but those are for the people who have physical/mental disabilities.
In my opinion Korea has the military service (these days) because most Koreans before then are stuck in the Korean educational system 24/7 and have no room to actually explore other avenues of life, so may tend to be immature. So it's a nice way to grow up and also get used to the corporate structure that you WILL face when you get a job in Korea.
Source : I finished my compulsory service about 4 months ago. HUE
Thanks for the insight, and congrats on finishing the service! :D A hyung/classmate of mine also did it, and he seemed to be unshakable at university.
On June 09 2015 23:06 IntoTheheart wrote: How does serving in the Korean Armed Forces work? Is it a full-time 24/7 you're-in-the-barracks sort of gig except on certain days, or is it more of a 9-5 type of job for the guys who are only in the army because they have to be?
it depends on your fitness condition,
if you are fully fit then you will do some outfield vocation that requires long periods of in camp stay
if you have some preexisting debilitating medical condition/chronic illness then you would do something clerical/office work which is usually a 9-5 job without having to stay in camp. you would have more time to do other things, like taking enrichment classes or playing BW for a bit, just with restrictions like not taking another job or earn money somewhere else (afreeca streaming) currently people like BeSt belong in this category
source: not korea but did conscription in another country...
Ah okay, thanks! I'm sure that iloveoov fell into this camp. Does anyone know whether or not Bisu had any significant physical problems?
Just go and freaking get it done, all these postponing is so dumb. Unless your disrupting ur studies or any other serious matters, streaming on afreeca isn't one, there's no reason to keep postponing it. I enlisted when I was 20, less than 10 years later I can't do half the shit I was able to do when I was 20. It gets harder as you age. Mandatory service in Korea and Taiwan is weird, when its your turn to do it, you do it. Contrary to TL beliefs, all these actors and in this case, streamers postponing with whatever bs reason is often frown upon by their countryman.
Postponing the date of enlistment is indeed difficult, is not sure if "tournament participation" is going to be sufficient reason. Also to avoid full-time enlistment, you really need to be debilitated in some way - the criteria is naturally harsh because government wants to avoid people dodging.
On June 10 2015 11:10 Shortizz wrote: Just go and freaking get it done, all these postponing is so dumb. Unless your disrupting ur studies or any other serious matters, streaming on afreeca isn't one, there's no reason to keep postponing it. I enlisted when I was 20, less than 10 years later I can't do half the shit I was able to do when I was 20. It gets harder as you age. Mandatory service in Korea and Taiwan is weird, when its your turn to do it, you do it. Contrary to TL beliefs, all these actors and in this case, streamers postponing with whatever bs reason is often frown upon by their countryman.
What can you not do at 30 that you could when you were 20? Most people are physically better at 30 than they are at 20. Peak age in almost every athletic event is in a persons late 20s. There is a generally minimal (though significant at top sporting levels) but consistent decline through ones 30s, and after that is where physical decline starts to become pretty noticeable.
I don't entirely agree with your first couple sentences. It may be dumb to you, but to assume it is dumb for Bisu is not right. Bisu is arguably the best afreeca streamer and BW player at the moment, and has a very large fanbase in a game he has devoted his life to. Another major BW competition is coming up, and offers continuing opportunity to define his legacy in something he has trained his entire life for. He also stands to make a TON of money from his afreeca streaming. If he enters now, he basically kisses his top BW playing days goodbye. We don't even know if the game will be around in two years, and more importantly two years off is a very long break to take. It's unlikely he could return and be as competitive as he is now, even after practice. That's a very long break, and not many athletes or gamers can quit the sport for two years and come back to anywhere near as good as they were. Same goes for Afreeca. He can make some excellent money right now, in two years who knows to what extent BW will be around and popular.
Military could workout well for Bisu, but I think he stands to gain much more if he is able to postpone the military as long as he can. From a personal standpoint, I think entering the military would actually be the more riskier decision. Postponing is anything but dumb.
On June 10 2015 11:10 Shortizz wrote: Just go and freaking get it done, all these postponing is so dumb. Unless your disrupting ur studies or any other serious matters, streaming on afreeca isn't one, there's no reason to keep postponing it. I enlisted when I was 20, less than 10 years later I can't do half the shit I was able to do when I was 20. It gets harder as you age. Mandatory service in Korea and Taiwan is weird, when its your turn to do it, you do it. Contrary to TL beliefs, all these actors and in this case, streamers postponing with whatever bs reason is often frown upon by their countryman.
What can you not do at 30 that you could when you were 20? Most people are physically better at 30 than they are at 20. Peak age in almost every athletic event is in a persons late 20s. There is a generally minimal (though significant at top sporting levels) but consistent decline through ones 30s, and after that is where physical decline starts to become pretty noticeable.
I don't entirely agree with your first couple sentences. It may be dumb to you, but to assume it is dumb for Bisu is not right. Bisu is arguably the best afreeca streamer and BW player at the moment, and has a very large fanbase in a game he has devoted his life to. Another major BW competition is coming up, and offers continuing opportunity to define his legacy in something he has trained his entire life for. He also stands to make a TON of money from his afreeca streaming. If he enters now, he basically kisses his top BW playing days goodbye. We don't even know if the game will be around in two years, and more importantly two years off is a very long break to take. It's unlikely he could return and be as competitive as he is now, even after practice. That's a very long break, and not many athletes or gamers can quit the sport for two years and come back to anywhere near as good as they were. Same goes for Afreeca. He can make some excellent money right now, in two years who knows to what extent BW will be around and popular.
Military could workout well for Bisu, but I think he stands to gain much more if he is able to postpone the military as long as he can. From a personal standpoint, I think entering the military would actually be the more riskier decision. Postponing is anything but dumb.
Bisu is a computer game player who holes in his room streaming to viewers. Many people enlisted despite being in the peak of their careers too, sportsman, top scholars etc. If you are going to talk about money, many young entrepreneurs and bankers earning way more than BW streamers do it too. Im replying to you as someone who lives in a country with mandatory military service. Everyone does it, even your favourite computer game streamer. How can you even call it mandatory if someone is able to postpone it just so he can continue his career of playing computer games? Even doctors with a much credible career and possible a huge disruption to their studies does it.
I dont have statistics or anything like that, but its way easier to learn new things and train your fitness when your 20. The standard physical test are adjusted according to your age with 18-24 being the hardest, i think that speaks for itself. Theres also a ton of reasons why they conscript at 20 instead of 30, some of it, surprisingly, is for the sake of the enlistee.
lol I would say conscription is partly to blame why there are few stellar local born male athletes in singapore (most are foreign talent stolen from elsewhere). 19-20 is a good age to train physically for conscription but it is also the peak period of athletic development for any aspiring athlete. messi would not have been as good as he is now if he is forced to conscript so early on for example.
at least Korea have much lax postponement that allow potential athletes to flourish for longer, and it shows in their results. olyimpic success even gives them exemption from service altogether
On June 10 2015 18:02 Probemicro wrote: lol I would say conscription is partly to blame why there are few stellar local born male athletes in singapore (most are foreign talent stolen from elsewhere). 19-20 is a good age to train physically for conscription but it is also the peak period of athletic development for any aspiring athlete. messi would not have been as good as he is now if he is forced to conscript so early on for example.
at least Korea have much lax postponement that allow potential athletes to flourish for longer, and it shows in their results. olyimpic success even gives them exemption from service altogether
Agreed. Though they do give boys with huge potential a few years off here and then. For video games though, not in our life time.
On June 10 2015 11:10 Shortizz wrote: Just go and freaking get it done, all these postponing is so dumb. Unless your disrupting ur studies or any other serious matters, streaming on afreeca isn't one, there's no reason to keep postponing it. I enlisted when I was 20, less than 10 years later I can't do half the shit I was able to do when I was 20. It gets harder as you age. Mandatory service in Korea and Taiwan is weird, when its your turn to do it, you do it. Contrary to TL beliefs, all these actors and in this case, streamers postponing with whatever bs reason is often frown upon by their countryman.
What can you not do at 30 that you could when you were 20? Most people are physically better at 30 than they are at 20. Peak age in almost every athletic event is in a persons late 20s. There is a generally minimal (though significant at top sporting levels) but consistent decline through ones 30s, and after that is where physical decline starts to become pretty noticeable.
I don't entirely agree with your first couple sentences. It may be dumb to you, but to assume it is dumb for Bisu is not right. Bisu is arguably the best afreeca streamer and BW player at the moment, and has a very large fanbase in a game he has devoted his life to. Another major BW competition is coming up, and offers continuing opportunity to define his legacy in something he has trained his entire life for. He also stands to make a TON of money from his afreeca streaming. If he enters now, he basically kisses his top BW playing days goodbye. We don't even know if the game will be around in two years, and more importantly two years off is a very long break to take. It's unlikely he could return and be as competitive as he is now, even after practice. That's a very long break, and not many athletes or gamers can quit the sport for two years and come back to anywhere near as good as they were. Same goes for Afreeca. He can make some excellent money right now, in two years who knows to what extent BW will be around and popular.
Military could workout well for Bisu, but I think he stands to gain much more if he is able to postpone the military as long as he can. From a personal standpoint, I think entering the military would actually be the more riskier decision. Postponing is anything but dumb.
Bisu is a computer game player who holes in his room streaming to viewers. Many people enlisted despite being in the peak of their careers too, sportsman, top scholars etc. If you are going to talk about money, many young entrepreneurs and bankers earning way more than BW streamers do it too. Im replying to you as someone who lives in a country with mandatory military service. Everyone does it, even your favourite computer game streamer. How can you even call it mandatory if someone is able to postpone it just so he can continue his career of playing computer games? Even doctors with a much credible career and possible a huge disruption to their studies does it.
I dont have statistics or anything like that, but its way easier to learn new things and train your fitness when your 20. The standard physical test are adjusted according to your age with 18-24 being the hardest, i think that speaks for itself. Theres also a ton of reasons why they conscript at 20 instead of 30, some of it, surprisingly, is for the sake of the enlistee.
Bisu makes more money streaming than most bankers or professional athletes (obviously there are athletes making thousands of times more but I'm talking about average athletes and average banker). I don't know how long is the service supposed to be but bisu might not be able to make money from bw anymore after it's done. I am also replying from a country with mandatory military service. and by the way, postponing military service is nothing new in South Korea among progamers. You just sound like you want him out of the scene, which propably is the case.
Isn't humanity spending enough on army already? It beats me when I see people trying to defend the army enlistment. How can you possibly support that a good doctor, teacher or scientist should disappear for 1.5 years from what he's doing, disrupting all his work, just to.. become like a bunch of other people?
I could understand an argument that it's discipline and it's important - right. Perhaps we should spend the same amount of resources on education, as that's also important. And even if you would decide, that discipline is a good thing for the population - there have to be exceptions. A lot of exceptions. Every single man that adds lots of good things to society, with or without discipline - should be an exception. Bisu is an exception.
On June 09 2015 23:00 BisuDagger wrote: Nada seems to be doing just fine and seeing how quickly he came back to form after SC2 I wouldn't be to worried. Him be gone will heavy impact on the overall scene. He's the only true S-Class god active on the scene. Unless someone like Nada returns to Nada level form, media attention will take a slight hit.
i think nada did practice for a bit during his army period, his mechanics seem a bit too sharp to have not supposedly played for ~2 years
I dunno if you play a game for almost 10.years and you're a God at it, it's not that hard to bounce back.
On June 11 2015 00:05 thezanursic wrote: I dunno if you play a game for almost 10.years and you're a God at it, it's not that hard to bounce back.
yeah tell that to JD with his awful display in that exhibit match against stork last year.
going from undisputed no.1 zerg that make any opponents piss their pants to laughable random fish player calibre, all because he wants to play swarmhostcraft instead
rust sets in as long as you don't practice in a long time.
On June 11 2015 00:05 thezanursic wrote: I dunno if you play a game for almost 10.years and you're a God at it, it's not that hard to bounce back.
yeah tell that to JD with his awful display in that exhibit match against stork last year.
going from undisputed no.1 zerg that make any opponents piss their pants to laughable random fish player calibre, all because he wants to play swarmhostcraft instead
rust sets in as long as you don't practice in a long time.
TBH tho you don't think Jaedong would whoop everyone in the current BW scene after a month of practice?
On June 10 2015 11:10 Shortizz wrote: Just go and freaking get it done, all these postponing is so dumb. Unless your disrupting ur studies or any other serious matters, streaming on afreeca isn't one, there's no reason to keep postponing it. I enlisted when I was 20, less than 10 years later I can't do half the shit I was able to do when I was 20. It gets harder as you age. Mandatory service in Korea and Taiwan is weird, when its your turn to do it, you do it. Contrary to TL beliefs, all these actors and in this case, streamers postponing with whatever bs reason is often frown upon by their countryman.
What can you not do at 30 that you could when you were 20? Most people are physically better at 30 than they are at 20. Peak age in almost every athletic event is in a persons late 20s. There is a generally minimal (though significant at top sporting levels) but consistent decline through ones 30s, and after that is where physical decline starts to become pretty noticeable.
I don't entirely agree with your first couple sentences. It may be dumb to you, but to assume it is dumb for Bisu is not right. Bisu is arguably the best afreeca streamer and BW player at the moment, and has a very large fanbase in a game he has devoted his life to. Another major BW competition is coming up, and offers continuing opportunity to define his legacy in something he has trained his entire life for. He also stands to make a TON of money from his afreeca streaming. If he enters now, he basically kisses his top BW playing days goodbye. We don't even know if the game will be around in two years, and more importantly two years off is a very long break to take. It's unlikely he could return and be as competitive as he is now, even after practice. That's a very long break, and not many athletes or gamers can quit the sport for two years and come back to anywhere near as good as they were. Same goes for Afreeca. He can make some excellent money right now, in two years who knows to what extent BW will be around and popular.
Military could workout well for Bisu, but I think he stands to gain much more if he is able to postpone the military as long as he can. From a personal standpoint, I think entering the military would actually be the more riskier decision. Postponing is anything but dumb.
Bisu is a computer game player who holes in his room streaming to viewers. Many people enlisted despite being in the peak of their careers too, sportsman, top scholars etc. If you are going to talk about money, many young entrepreneurs and bankers earning way more than BW streamers do it too. Im replying to you as someone who lives in a country with mandatory military service. Everyone does it, even your favourite computer game streamer. How can you even call it mandatory if someone is able to postpone it just so he can continue his career of playing computer games? Even doctors with a much credible career and possible a huge disruption to their studies does it.
I dont have statistics or anything like that, but its way easier to learn new things and train your fitness when your 20. The standard physical test are adjusted according to your age with 18-24 being the hardest, i think that speaks for itself. Theres also a ton of reasons why they conscript at 20 instead of 30, some of it, surprisingly, is for the sake of the enlistee.
Agree with L_Master and Piste on this.
You shouldn't compare the doctors or the bankers or other non-esports professionals with e-sports progamers (or amateurs in bw). Non-esports professionals and athletes can still pursue the same career after the military service. It actually makes more sense if they do it at an earlier age to get it over with. Many professionals who work in medical or financial industries will only have a career peak in their 30s. Besides, their fields will always stay around even for centuries from now.
As you know, e-sports is totally different, the peak of their career is teens/early 20s. And since e-sports, especiallly bw is not as stable as the other sports and profession, delaying bisu's military service would be more beneficial for him and probably the entire bw community, since i think he's the best right now in bw.
aww man. i think we honestly knew this was coming. but yeah honestly i think the best thing is just to get it over with. maybe postpone it till the end of the next major tournament or something.
On June 11 2015 00:05 thezanursic wrote: I dunno if you play a game for almost 10.years and you're a God at it, it's not that hard to bounce back.
yeah tell that to JD with his awful display in that exhibit match against stork last year.
going from undisputed no.1 zerg that make any opponents piss their pants to laughable random fish player calibre, all because he wants to play swarmhostcraft instead
rust sets in as long as you don't practice in a long time.
TBH tho you don't think Jaedong would whoop everyone in the current BW scene after a month of practice?
the guy I replied to was implying Nada did not even touched the game once for years prior to his return to afreeca, which is hugely doubtful since his mechanics already look decent on his first day of afreeca. contrast that to another fellow 30+ year old iris, who look REAL rusty and slow in his stream on his return early this year and has rapidly improved since then
and if JD returns he would need more than a month to return to form, fellow s class zerg effort is still struggling against top players despite being around for half a year. lategame zerg is tough at the highest level
At the very end of the professional broodwar scene, there was an incredible amount of change in the middle and late game for both T and P, meanwhile zerg has not evolved strategically.
Effort isn't just playing against great players, he is playing against strategic evolution that has yet to be countered.
The situation is the same as it was in the reign of bisu, there are problems with 'standard' approaches that are being exploited and there hasn't been a zerg able to show how to adapt fluidly. (just my opinion)
If you don't serve, you lose your citizenship. One of my friends here came back to Korea just to serve and then wait out his reserve period to maintain his citizenship.
On June 11 2015 06:40 jinorazi wrote: teamliquid acquires bisu. bisu gets visa. bisu marries a tl staff be it male or female. gets naturalized.
DO IT.
Even american(or other nation) koreans have to serve.
no they dont. as said above, all they have to do is forfeit their citizenship. but if you have a foreign citizenship as a korean then you will already have accepted that your korean citizenship must be forfeit, so no big deal there OR you can get permanent residency in another country and just sit there till youre too old to go military. basically do what yoo seung jun did, except you wont get banned from entering the country because youre a nobody and the korean government cant possibly keep track of everyone whos doing this.
On June 11 2015 06:40 jinorazi wrote: teamliquid acquires bisu. bisu gets visa. bisu marries a tl staff be it male or female. gets naturalized.
DO IT.
Even american(or other nation) koreans have to serve.
no they dont. as said above, all they have to do is forfeit their citizenship. but if you have a foreign citizenship as a korean then you will already have accepted that your korean citizenship must be forfeit, so no big deal there OR you can get permanent residency in another country and just sit there till youre too old to go military. basically do what yoo seung jun did, except you wont get banned from entering the country because youre a nobody and the korean government cant possibly keep track of everyone whos doing this.
You mean I'm exactly right? As in anyone who wants to remain a korean MUST serve whether they live there or not. And we are being a realistic here about our discussion of Bisu's choice. Not discussing ways to get around it. And you really come of ignorant saying
korean citizenship must be forfeit, so no big deal there
That's a really big fucking deal. First off people are actually proud to be citizens of their country. Second, if Bisu isn't a citizen how can he compete in offline Korean leagues? Not serving without cause would ruin his career.
the korean government cant possibly keep track of everyone whos doing this.
Go ahead and take your chances with that one lol. I'm sure you'll just slip on by.
On June 11 2015 00:05 thezanursic wrote: I dunno if you play a game for almost 10.years and you're a God at it, it's not that hard to bounce back.
yeah tell that to JD with his awful display in that exhibit match against stork last year.
going from undisputed no.1 zerg that make any opponents piss their pants to laughable random fish player calibre, all because he wants to play swarmhostcraft instead
rust sets in as long as you don't practice in a long time.
TBH tho you don't think Jaedong would whoop everyone in the current BW scene after a month of practice?
the guy I replied to was implying Nada did not even touched the game once for years prior to his return to afreeca, which is hugely doubtful since his mechanics already look decent on his first day of afreeca. contrast that to another fellow 30+ year old iris, who look REAL rusty and slow in his stream on his return early this year and has rapidly improved since then
and if JD returns he would need more than a month to return to form, fellow s class zerg effort is still struggling against top players despite being around for half a year. lategame zerg is tough at the highest level
I dunno how much EffOrt is struggling. He's largely dismantling everybody on stream. Watched him 2-0 and 3-0 both SSak and Mong numerous times. Obviously his vP is completely dominant. Hasn't lost in a match yet according to TLPD and I can probably count on one hand the number of ZvPs he has lost on stream.
ZvZ seems to maybe be a sticking point, his record there doesn't look good, and he rarely plays it on stream so hard to know where he is at.
The sooner he does military, the sooner he can be finished with military, the sooner he can come back and get back into form and start streaming and wrecking scrubs at tournaments, right?
I dunno how much EffOrt is struggling. He's largely dismantling everybody on stream. Watched him 2-0 and 3-0 both SSak and Mong numerous times. Obviously his vP is completely dominant. Hasn't lost in a match yet according to TLPD and I can probably count on one hand the number of ZvPs he has lost on stream.
ZvZ seems to maybe be a sticking point, his record there doesn't look good, and he rarely plays it on stream so hard to know where he is at.
ssak is overrated in non tvt and mong is busy with his online food business to practice much. in the recent weeks effort still cannot consistently handle mind and piano, 2 players with the most beastly tvz. (frustrating even to still see him die to piano's unique style of play, which zero has already demonstrated how to counter recently in draemong league).
zvp hes better than free but still loses dramatically to bisu, i remember an afternoon last week where he got 1-6 lol
On June 11 2015 00:05 thezanursic wrote: I dunno if you play a game for almost 10.years and you're a God at it, it's not that hard to bounce back.
yeah tell that to JD with his awful display in that exhibit match against stork last year.
going from undisputed no.1 zerg that make any opponents piss their pants to laughable random fish player calibre, all because he wants to play swarmhostcraft instead
rust sets in as long as you don't practice in a long time.
TBH tho you don't think Jaedong would whoop everyone in the current BW scene after a month of practice?
the guy I replied to was implying Nada did not even touched the game once for years prior to his return to afreeca, which is hugely doubtful since his mechanics already look decent on his first day of afreeca. contrast that to another fellow 30+ year old iris, who look REAL rusty and slow in his stream on his return early this year and has rapidly improved since then
and if JD returns he would need more than a month to return to form, fellow s class zerg effort is still struggling against top players despite being around for half a year. lategame zerg is tough at the highest level
I dunno how much EffOrt is struggling. He's largely dismantling everybody on stream. Watched him 2-0 and 3-0 both SSak and Mong numerous times. Obviously his vP is completely dominant. Hasn't lost in a match yet according to TLPD and I can probably count on one hand the number of ZvPs he has lost on stream.
ZvZ seems to maybe be a sticking point, his record there doesn't look good, and he rarely plays it on stream so hard to know where he is at.
Agreed about that assessments of EffOrt's ZvT (very strong) and ZvZ (mediocre), but his ZvP is not quite at the level of hero, Tasiki/miSa (Calm?), or Killer (in his prime) -- but closer to Larva and ZerO's.
Over the last few months, I've watched EffOrt play Bisu some 50 times (mostly FS, but also plenty of SSL maps for practice), and can probably count 5, maybe 8 wins for EffOrt during that period -- all of which were early ling run-bys or mid-game hydra/lurker bust timings. The only Zerg who seems to be able to counter Bisu's late game PvZ of late is Tasiki, and we don't really know who he is! Similarly, EffOrt's lost plenty of ladder games against second tier PvZers like Shuttle or GuemChi.
No knock on the guy, he's only been in the scene for a few months and his ZvT is terrific, but let's not throne him the ZvP crown here...
On June 11 2015 06:40 jinorazi wrote: teamliquid acquires bisu. bisu gets visa. bisu marries a tl staff be it male or female. gets naturalized.
DO IT.
Even american(or other nation) koreans have to serve.
no they dont. as said above, all they have to do is forfeit their citizenship. but if you have a foreign citizenship as a korean then you will already have accepted that your korean citizenship must be forfeit, so no big deal there OR you can get permanent residency in another country and just sit there till youre too old to go military. basically do what yoo seung jun did, except you wont get banned from entering the country because youre a nobody and the korean government cant possibly keep track of everyone whos doing this.
You mean I'm exactly right? As in anyone who wants to remain a korean MUST serve whether they live there or not. And we are being a realistic here about our discussion of Bisu's choice. Not discussing ways to get around it. And you really come of ignorant saying
korean citizenship must be forfeit, so no big deal there
That's a really big fucking deal. First off people are actually proud to be citizens of their country. Second, if Bisu isn't a citizen how can he compete in offline Korean leagues? Not serving without cause would ruin his career.
the korean government cant possibly keep track of everyone whos doing this.
Go ahead and take your chances with that one lol. I'm sure you'll just slip on by.
how are u right? wtf? american(or other nation) koreans implies their nationality ISNT korean. they are of american(or other nation) nationality with korean background. thats what your sentence says, in which case no, these people are not required to serve. also, i never said this way of dodging service was applicable to bisu. i was explaining how it works to normal people who have foreign citizenship elsewhere. how the fk did that totally go over your head? no shit bisu cant forfeit korean citizenship; hed be a man of no country then. also, korea has NO dual citizenship. picking up citizenship at another country already means that particular person has the intent of forfeiting korean citizenship. so yes it is no big deal because everyone sees it coming also i know tens of people who are doing exactly what i just said in australia so i dont need to take my chances lol. besides im already an australian citizen so i dont go military anyway
On June 11 2015 06:40 jinorazi wrote: teamliquid acquires bisu. bisu gets visa. bisu marries a tl staff be it male or female. gets naturalized.
DO IT.
Even american(or other nation) koreans have to serve.
no they dont. as said above, all they have to do is forfeit their citizenship. but if you have a foreign citizenship as a korean then you will already have accepted that your korean citizenship must be forfeit, so no big deal there OR you can get permanent residency in another country and just sit there till youre too old to go military. basically do what yoo seung jun did, except you wont get banned from entering the country because youre a nobody and the korean government cant possibly keep track of everyone whos doing this.
You mean I'm exactly right? As in anyone who wants to remain a korean MUST serve whether they live there or not. And we are being a realistic here about our discussion of Bisu's choice. Not discussing ways to get around it. And you really come of ignorant saying
korean citizenship must be forfeit, so no big deal there
That's a really big fucking deal. First off people are actually proud to be citizens of their country. Second, if Bisu isn't a citizen how can he compete in offline Korean leagues? Not serving without cause would ruin his career.
the korean government cant possibly keep track of everyone whos doing this.
Go ahead and take your chances with that one lol. I'm sure you'll just slip on by.
how are u right? wtf? american(or other nation) koreans implies their nationality ISNT korean. they are of american(or other nation) nationality with korean background. thats what your sentence says, in which case no, these people are not required to serve. also, i never said this way of dodging service was applicable to bisu. i was explaining how it works to normal people who have foreign citizenship elsewhere. how the fk did that totally go over your head? no shit bisu cant forfeit korean citizenship; hed be a man of no country then. also, korea has NO dual citizenship. picking up citizenship at another country already means that particular person has the intent of forfeiting korean citizenship. so yes it is no big deal because everyone sees it coming also i know tens of people who are doing exactly what i just said in australia so i dont need to take my chances lol. besides im already an australian citizen so i dont go military anyway
Koreans do have dual citizenship. Iirc if your mother is korean and you are born in America you can maintain your korean status if you serve. I have several korean friends who did this. One even served with boxer.
Edit: we are clearly on two different pages so I'll just say I'm sorry for my angry post and am moving on.
On June 09 2015 12:20 BisuDagger wrote: I'm sure he can postpone at least until the end of the OSL. He is also still a couple years away from age max. I've known this was coming and honestly just want him to get it over with.
Alternatively: someone shoot him in the foot.
I second this! SOMEONE FIND HIM AND AMPUTATE THAT FOOT
I'll do it! I have a sword and can keep his foot frozen to gaze at longingly from my bed.
Holy shit, I have a sharpened katana aswell, hell let's take one foot each!
I was a Korean citizen, became naturalized in 2013 to become a US citizen and I had to forfeit my Korean citizenship (not that I wanted it anyway lol).
Also I came to the US at the age of 3 years old, was a permanent resident for the most part. At a certain point, the Korean government exempted me from enlisting in the military because I lived here for so long. I think this was an exception for my case, but I'm fortunate I did not have to go.
Just wanted to note, I haven't read about any recent developments... I read through the popular forums/Afreeca boards daily, including Bisu's, but the enlistment date/postponement topic hasn't come up.
Maybe he's referenced it on his stream live, no idea
From what I understand, in the past you were not allowed to have a dual citizenship if you were a Korean citizen. The law changed in 2010 when Koreans who have lived in a few select countries (U.S. included) under the age of ~5 wished to apply for dual citizenship. However, the catch is that for males, they must finish their duties while females did not. [I am a U.S. Resident and have finished my service, have contacted the U.S. and Korean governments and embassies to make sure I can keep both citizenships before going to do my military duty]
Trying to postpone your military service is not uncommon at all. It is a very active discussion. It's just that it's very unwise as when companies hire people, they do look at when and where they finished their military services. So it's wiser to do it at the 'right' age which is right when you turn 21.
I might be saying this because I already did mine, but it REALLY is important that people just go and do it. Yes it IS two years of your life, but at the same time, in Korea the culture value of it is so strong that while you may not notice it when you are young, but when you become an adult, it is somewhat embarrassing to mention when you purposefully try to dodge out or go late because you just don't want to go.
On June 24 2015 12:46 UTL_Unlimited wrote: From what I understand, in the past you were not allowed to have a dual citizenship if you were a Korean citizen. The law changed in 2010 when Koreans who have lived in a few select countries (U.S. included) under the age of ~5 wished to apply for dual citizenship. However, the catch is that for males, they must finish their duties while females did not. [I am a U.S. Resident and have finished my service, have contacted the U.S. and Korean governments and embassies to make sure I can keep both citizenships before going to do my military duty]
Trying to postpone your military service is not uncommon at all. It is a very active discussion. It's just that it's very unwise as when companies hire people, they do look at when and where they finished their military services. So it's wiser to do it at the 'right' age which is right when you turn 21.
I might be saying this because I already did mine, but it REALLY is important that people just go and do it. Yes it IS two years of your life, but at the same time, in Korea the culture value of it is so strong that while you may not notice it when you are young, but when you become an adult, it is somewhat embarrassing to mention when you purposefully try to dodge out or go late because you just don't want to go.
if you plan on living in korea after studies, then yes you should go. the amount of shit you would get from your peers, colleagues, potential gf+family etc is not worth not going. but if youre gonna live overseas, no one really gives a shit if you try to dodge military, because foreigners never have to go through it anyway. and lets be honest, koreans overseas are much less critical of military dodging because they would all do the same if they could
On June 24 2015 12:46 UTL_Unlimited wrote: From what I understand, in the past you were not allowed to have a dual citizenship if you were a Korean citizen. The law changed in 2010 when Koreans who have lived in a few select countries (U.S. included) under the age of ~5 wished to apply for dual citizenship. However, the catch is that for males, they must finish their duties while females did not. [I am a U.S. Resident and have finished my service, have contacted the U.S. and Korean governments and embassies to make sure I can keep both citizenships before going to do my military duty]
Trying to postpone your military service is not uncommon at all. It is a very active discussion. It's just that it's very unwise as when companies hire people, they do look at when and where they finished their military services. So it's wiser to do it at the 'right' age which is right when you turn 21.
I might be saying this because I already did mine, but it REALLY is important that people just go and do it. Yes it IS two years of your life, but at the same time, in Korea the culture value of it is so strong that while you may not notice it when you are young, but when you become an adult, it is somewhat embarrassing to mention when you purposefully try to dodge out or go late because you just don't want to go.
if you plan on living in korea after studies, then yes you should go. the amount of shit you would get from your peers, colleagues, potential gf+family etc is not worth not going. but if youre gonna live overseas, no one really gives a shit if you try to dodge military, because foreigners never have to go through it anyway. and lets be honest, koreans overseas are much less critical of military dodging because they would all do the same if they could
There are a few problems that you could run into with that in terms of employment however. If you were to ever apply for companies that are Korean orientated companies (Samsung LG) they do take those issues into account. Similarly, if you were ever to apply for say, a law firm, that has international branches to Korea, the firm would be much more inclined to hire the Korean applicant who went to the military rather than did not simply because of less tenuous issues involved. International law firms tend to hire Koreans/Asians in general to deal with that targeted client base, thus having that experience is critical.
But you are completely correct. If you have no attachments in Korea, simply keeping the U.S. citizenship is a much more safe and reliable option. I am certainly planning on living in the United States in the future, but due to my parents and my ancestry being set in Korea, having a dual citizenship is very important so that I can manage both assets in both countries with less hassle.
He should marry a pregnant fangirl about to give birth! That would postpone the problem for years, but then he has to be a father which is probably more time consuming than serving the military
On June 24 2015 16:03 shin ken wrote: He should marry a pregnant fangirl about to give birth! That would postpone the problem for years, but then he has to be a father which is probably more time consuming than serving the military
At least it will give Bisu more motivation like PuSan. Milk Powder Toss hwaiting!
I haven't read the whole topic, but these days effort > bisu, and this judgement is based on current results and quite a depth knowledge of zvp/pvz. ;-
On June 24 2015 20:39 kogeT wrote: I haven't read the whole topic, but these days effort > bisu, and this judgement is based on current results and quite a depth knowledge of zvp/pvz. ;-
On June 12 2015 09:14 prech wrote: Agreed about that assessments of EffOrt's ZvT (very strong) and ZvZ (mediocre), but his ZvP is not quite at the level of hero, Tasiki/miSa (Calm?), or Killer (in his prime) -- but closer to Larva and ZerO's.
Over the last few months, I've watched EffOrt play Bisu some 50 times (mostly FS, but also plenty of SSL maps for practice), and can probably count 5, maybe 8 wins for EffOrt during that period -- all of which were early ling run-bys or mid-game hydra/lurker bust timings. The only Zerg who seems to be able to counter Bisu's late game PvZ of late is Tasiki, and we don't really know who he is! Similarly, EffOrt's lost plenty of ladder games against second tier PvZers like Shuttle or GuemChi.
No knock on the guy, he's only been in the scene for a few months and his ZvT is terrific, but let's not throne him the ZvP crown here...
vs.
On June 24 2015 20:39 kogeT wrote: I haven't read the whole topic, but these days effort > bisu, and this judgement is based on current results and quite a depth knowledge of zvp/pvz. ;-
theres no one in the current bw scene who can say they are 'king' of zvp that title can only be attained by consistently beating top protosses and no one can consistently beat bisu, regardless of race i still dream of a time when tbls is reunited in the new bw era
Well, I've been actively watching bisus and efforts games and this is true that he is constantly beating bisu. Just to give you the flavour of last results:
Total result of above games is Bisu 7-9 Effort, where Bisu is mostly winning less than 10 minutes games when going for front/mid 2 gateway rush. Worth mentioning these are the games from last month.
*Sitcking my fingers in my ears and shaking my head* ^
Actually, Sea had Bisu's number on ladder for quite a bit too, but still struggled against him in tournaments. I see this as similar until they meet in a big game scenario.
What I mean is when Effort started after coming back, he was like 1-10 vs Bisu. Effort has been killing all the current S class players, even coming from behind. You're right about tournament results, but you can't just judge ones skill based on a one bo3 in a tournament. I would say the above stated consistency is a much more reliable conclusion on a skill level.
Also I have a little bit different look at those games, really trying to verify the strategic/tactical depth of both players, and I would say that Bisu doesn't have good answers to Efforts style these days. Bisu has just recently started to mix up a lot of cheese and risky moves, as his previous approach was to outmicro/outmacro his opponents, and this just doesn't work vs Effort. I would bet my money on Effort to win 60% of games vs Bisu these days.
not all of his matches are put on his YT channel anyway, so don't draw conclusions just from games on his channel. you must have missed a fine afternoon last month where bisu 7-1 effort.
this month bisu has been quite busy, going to china for a random exhibition match worrying and settling his enlistment letter currently staying over at the kongdoo office/studio to do *something*(see afreeca feed) so he probably hasnt practice much lately.
and even during his practice time he doesnt really give a lot of effort in his practice, unless theres balloons involved. thats gonna have an effect no matter what, he still trashes amateurs but you can feel him slipping up a lot against other pros. he will probably start stepping up in training when ssl ro16 comes around, he has an obligation and pride to do so.
in contrast effort has always been a hard worker and even has a short break staying at a hospital after his traffic accident to recharge himself. hes been mostly playing hunters these days (to avoid burnout and/or revealing 1v1 strats probably). effort seem to be actually playing better after his discharge from hospital
On June 26 2015 18:32 Probemicro wrote: not all of his matches are put on his YT channel anyway, so don't draw conclusions just from games on his channel. you must have missed a fine afternoon last month where bisu 7-1 effort.
this month bisu has been quite busy, going to china for a random exhibition match worrying and settling his enlistment letter currently staying over at the kongdoo office/studio to do *something*(see afreeca feed) so he probably hasnt practice much lately.
and even during his practice time he doesnt really give a lot of effort in his practice, unless theres balloons involved. thats gonna have an effect no matter what, he still trashes amateurs but you can feel him slipping up a lot against other pros. he will probably start stepping up in training when ssl ro16 comes around, he has an obligation and pride to do so.
in contrast effort has always been a hard worker and even has a short break staying at a hospital after his traffic accident to recharge himself. hes been mostly playing hunters these days (to avoid burnout and/or revealing 1v1 strats probably). effort seem to be actually playing better after his discharge from hospital
I support the point of not only looking at YT, but I also watch live streams when have time to. This was just to prove a point, obviously I don't have a real record between these two. My overall opinion is based more on the game analysis than results. When knowing the match up very well and watching games you can say which player is under pressure and tries to find solutions and which players puts pressure and leads the game - for a last month this has been in Efforts favor. And this doesn't change from day to day, it's more a matter of game style and current shape. There will be days where Bisu or Effort dominates, but by principle you'd still be able to see if the players adventage is based on all ins / micro or macro blunders or "current skill" (as explained above).
On June 26 2015 23:16 Assault_1 wrote: I don't get how a nerd who plays bw all day can suddenly join the military, it would take months/years for him to get into shape
thats the point of the 2 years. get people into shape in case actual war comes around. of course when everyone is discharged they all go back to not knowing anything about combat and losing their physicality, but thats precisely why people think compulsory military service is absolutely stupid. thats korea for you though....
On June 26 2015 23:16 Assault_1 wrote: I don't get how a nerd who plays bw all day can suddenly join the military, it would take months/years for him to get into shape
All Bisu has to do is stand. I can't believe it took South Koreans this long to realize if they sent him to the Demilitarized Zone to be one of those guards that stands there all day and faces North Korea that North Korea would surrender to his handsomeness.
On June 26 2015 23:16 Assault_1 wrote: I don't get how a nerd who plays bw all day can suddenly join the military, it would take months/years for him to get into shape
thats the point of the 2 years. get people into shape in case actual war comes around. of course when everyone is discharged they all go back to not knowing anything about combat and losing their physicality, but thats precisely why people think compulsory military service is absolutely stupid. thats korea for you though....
I'm so glad Sweden decided to shut down its compulsory military service system (the worlds oldest) a few years ago.
On June 26 2015 23:16 Assault_1 wrote: I don't get how a nerd who plays bw all day can suddenly join the military, it would take months/years for him to get into shape
You don't have to be in any kind of shape to join any kind of military that I'm familiar with. As long as your not obese, your're pretty much set.
On June 26 2015 23:16 Assault_1 wrote: I don't get how a nerd who plays bw all day can suddenly join the military, it would take months/years for him to get into shape
You don't have to be in any kind of shape to join any kind of military that I'm familiar with. As long as your not obese, your're pretty much set.
its possible its changed a bit but everyone gets some sort of check up and they weed out the too tall too fat too skinny too short too old etc and anyone with health problems, ie. eyesight (BeSt) get sorted into clerical/public service duties. for some odd reason though if you become exempt from the stay in base military service and land it the public service one society really looks down on you lol so glad I dont have to put up with that mandatory conscription bullshit, korea is so stupid
On June 26 2015 23:16 Assault_1 wrote: I don't get how a nerd who plays bw all day can suddenly join the military, it would take months/years for him to get into shape
If your country has conscription they will force you get into shape. There is a tier system they use based on your health so they can assign you to non-physical jobs if required.
Hey guys! Im also a guy trying to get a empty slot in enlistment dates, so I think I can explain what Bisu can do. In Bisu's case, the only probable way for him to be able to participate in SSL is to quit his slot. Basically, he has to do what Jangbi did, forfeit the enlistment date. Bisu doesn't have any real reason that he can state to delay his enlistment date, so if he wants to continue playing in SSL, he'll have to forfeit the enlistment date he's received. Its problematic for Bisu because the military slots right now are fairly difficult to enter, so if he forfeits the date he's received there's no guarantee he'll get a enlistment date that he wants, for example after this season of Sonic Starleague. I probably think, since he said on stream he wanted to delay, he'll probably forfeit this enlistment date and re-apply after the tournament is over.
On June 28 2015 23:47 Orlok wrote: Hey guys! Im also a guy trying to get a empty slot in enlistment dates, so I think I can explain what Bisu can do. In Bisu's case, the only probable way for him to be able to participate in SSL is to quit his slot. Basically, he has to do what Jangbi did, forfeit the enlistment date. Bisu doesn't have any real reason that he can state to delay his enlistment date, so if he wants to continue playing in SSL, he'll have to forfeit the enlistment date he's received. Its problematic for Bisu because the military slots right now are fairly difficult to enter, so if he forfeits the date he's received there's no guarantee he'll get a enlistment date that he wants, for example after this season of Sonic Starleague. I probably think, since he said on stream he wanted to delay, he'll probably forfeit this enlistment date and re-apply after the tournament is over.
Wait - by forfeit, do you mean just saying you're not going? Like...
Bisu: "I want to delay my enlistment date please." Korean Army: "You have no valid reason. No." Bisu: "Damn. Then, I'm not going. Give me a new enlistment date." Korean Army: "Why didn't you say so in the first place?"
It's something like this? That's weird o_O I guess what you are saying is they can be like "Okay, instead of July 21st you can come on the 24th," right?
Well, it is kind of like that, but its not quite that either. Basically, when you forfeit your enlistment date, that doesn't mean you NOT going to the military period. It just means you give up entering the army on that date. Forfeiting a given enlistment date basically entails the person who forfeited that date to re-apply for another date. Its problematic because due to the amount of people (men, in this case) who also are trying to apply for a enlistment date, his second try to enlist will be more difficult to get. It might come sooner then he wants it to, or extremely later than he wants it to; its all up to luck really, if he doesn't apply for a special branch of the military like KATUSA or something like that.
so the conversation you posted? it goes like this Bisu: "I would like to forfeit my enlistment date." Army: "Alright. the spot you received will be given to someone else. Re-apply before you're 35(the max age of a man to apply for military service; if you're over 35, you can't enlist)" Bisu: "Alright."
Hope this helps!
TLDR; he basically quits the spot given to him, the spot goes to someone else, he has to reapply for a new spot. The new enlistment date isn't given, he has to apply AGAIN.
On June 29 2015 00:05 Orlok wrote: Well, it is kind of like that, but its not quite that either. Basically, when you forfeit your enlistment date, that doesn't mean you NOT going to the military period. It just means you give up entering the army on that date. Forfeiting a given enlistment date basically entails the person who forfeited that date to re-apply for another date. Its problematic because due to the amount of people (men, in this case) who also are trying to apply for a enlistment date, his second try to enlist will be more difficult to get. It might come sooner then he wants it to, or extremely later than he wants it to; its all up to luck really, if he doesn't apply for a special branch of the military like KATUSA or something like that.
so the conversation you posted? it goes like this Bisu: "I would like to forfeit my enlistment date." Army: "Alright. the spot you received will be given to someone else. Re-apply before you're 35(the max age of a man to apply for military service; if you're over 35, you can't enlist)" Bisu: "Alright."
Hope this helps!
TLDR; he basically quits the spot given to him, the spot goes to someone else, he has to reapply for a new spot. The new enlistment date isn't given, he has to apply AGAIN.
Oh... So it's really not that big of a deal then! Thank you for elaborating. Is this something that people in Korea look down upon as well?
On June 29 2015 00:05 Orlok wrote: Well, it is kind of like that, but its not quite that either. Basically, when you forfeit your enlistment date, that doesn't mean you NOT going to the military period. It just means you give up entering the army on that date. Forfeiting a given enlistment date basically entails the person who forfeited that date to re-apply for another date. Its problematic because due to the amount of people (men, in this case) who also are trying to apply for a enlistment date, his second try to enlist will be more difficult to get. It might come sooner then he wants it to, or extremely later than he wants it to; its all up to luck really, if he doesn't apply for a special branch of the military like KATUSA or something like that.
so the conversation you posted? it goes like this Bisu: "I would like to forfeit my enlistment date." Army: "Alright. the spot you received will be given to someone else. Re-apply before you're 35(the max age of a man to apply for military service; if you're over 35, you can't enlist)" Bisu: "Alright."
Hope this helps!
TLDR; he basically quits the spot given to him, the spot goes to someone else, he has to reapply for a new spot. The new enlistment date isn't given, he has to apply AGAIN.
Oh... So it's really not that big of a deal then! Thank you for elaborating. Is this something that people in Korea look down upon as well?
well like he said, the date is random. korean men usually want to get their military done around the first or 2nd year of uni. it gives them time to finish uni after with possibilities to complete internships, further studies etc. once thats all done you want to be applying for jobs by the time youre 27 otherwise you start to run into unemployment issues. its competitive enough just trying to get a good job with credentials and experience, so you dont want to disadvantage yourself further by applying 2 years later than people. also, employers dont hire you if they know you have to leave for military a couple years into your job. so it is a pretty huge deal for normal people who are looking to get a day job. doing military later effectively kills any hope of them finding a decent paying job and working up the corporate ladder
On June 29 2015 00:05 Orlok wrote: Well, it is kind of like that, but its not quite that either. Basically, when you forfeit your enlistment date, that doesn't mean you NOT going to the military period. It just means you give up entering the army on that date. Forfeiting a given enlistment date basically entails the person who forfeited that date to re-apply for another date. Its problematic because due to the amount of people (men, in this case) who also are trying to apply for a enlistment date, his second try to enlist will be more difficult to get. It might come sooner then he wants it to, or extremely later than he wants it to; its all up to luck really, if he doesn't apply for a special branch of the military like KATUSA or something like that.
so the conversation you posted? it goes like this Bisu: "I would like to forfeit my enlistment date." Army: "Alright. the spot you received will be given to someone else. Re-apply before you're 35(the max age of a man to apply for military service; if you're over 35, you can't enlist)" Bisu: "Alright."
Hope this helps!
TLDR; he basically quits the spot given to him, the spot goes to someone else, he has to reapply for a new spot. The new enlistment date isn't given, he has to apply AGAIN.
Oh... So it's really not that big of a deal then! Thank you for elaborating. Is this something that people in Korea look down upon as well?
well like he said, the date is random. korean men usually want to get their military done around the first or 2nd year of uni. it gives them time to finish uni after with possibilities to complete internships, further studies etc. once thats all done you want to be applying for jobs by the time youre 27 otherwise you start to run into unemployment issues. its competitive enough just trying to get a good job with credentials and experience, so you dont want to disadvantage yourself further by applying 2 years later than people. also, employers dont hire you if they know you have to leave for military a couple years into your job. so it is a pretty huge deal for normal people who are looking to get a day job. doing military later effectively kills any hope of them finding a decent paying job and working up the corporate ladder
I see, thank you for explaining further. As far as I know Bisu hasn't been making any moves towards education or standard jobs yet, right? It would suck if this got in the way of either of those, because then I'd say he has to choose to go and skip on SSL rather than impact his financial stability...
well i emphasised normal people because i dont think this applies to bisu he seems to be content on making money through afreeca and being a personality around korean esports. in these cases the military service has less of an impact because bisu will be making money off his legacy and name. to be brutally honest if bisu attempted to transition into a normal desk job life, he wouldnt stand a chance. no one would hire him unless he applied for specialised positions within game related companies/departments and even then there arent any guarantees. to my knowledge he hasnt graduated out of a university and he probably doesnt have any skills in particular (aside from his ridiculous multitask?). companies like blizzard, ncsoft, nexon etc look for people who have MASSIVE knowledge and experience in gaming + decent understanding of business (unless youre applying as a developer). bisu, despite all his brilliance in starcraft, probably hasnt played enough games to be of use to these companies, and these types of companies are the only ones which bisu could realistically look forward to.
On June 29 2015 09:12 evilfatsh1t wrote: once thats all done you want to be applying for jobs by the time youre 27 otherwise you start to run into unemployment issues. its competitive enough just trying to get a good job with credentials and experience, so you dont want to disadvantage yourself further by applying 2 years later than people. also, employers dont hire you if they know you have to leave for military a couple years into your job. so it is a pretty huge deal for normal people who are looking to get a day job. doing military later effectively kills any hope of them finding a decent paying job and working up the corporate ladder
that only applies if you are ambitious and want to go work in a high paying job in one of the big companies/chaebol (ie. many uni graduates).
otherwise i dont think it matters when you have done the military as long as you did it before applying for a decent normal job. bisu with his looks alone he could be a professional model or something.
On June 29 2015 09:12 evilfatsh1t wrote: once thats all done you want to be applying for jobs by the time youre 27 otherwise you start to run into unemployment issues. its competitive enough just trying to get a good job with credentials and experience, so you dont want to disadvantage yourself further by applying 2 years later than people. also, employers dont hire you if they know you have to leave for military a couple years into your job. so it is a pretty huge deal for normal people who are looking to get a day job. doing military later effectively kills any hope of them finding a decent paying job and working up the corporate ladder
that only applies if you are ambitious and want to go work in a high paying job in one of the big companies/chaebol (ie. many uni graduates).
otherwise i dont think it matters when you have done the military as long as you did it before applying for a decent normal job. bisu with his looks alone he could be a professional model or something.
He also has a ridiculous fan club. A lot of those people probably have jobs by now (fans that have been with him since 2007) and can help him get a job I'm guessing. That's worst-case scenario, of course, but it's still something to consider as an asset.
On June 09 2015 12:20 BisuDagger wrote: I'm sure he can postpone at least until the end of the OSL. He is also still a couple years away from age max. I've known this was coming and honestly just want him to get it over with.
Alternatively: someone shoot him in the foot.
Hmmm or maybe someone should I don't know dagger Bisu's foot? Hmm Bisu, foot, dagger... Bisu, Dagger... BisuDagger... I just can't find the solution to this problem!
On June 09 2015 12:20 BisuDagger wrote: I'm sure he can postpone at least until the end of the OSL. He is also still a couple years away from age max. I've known this was coming and honestly just want him to get it over with.
Alternatively: someone shoot him in the foot.
Hmmm or maybe someone should I don't know dagger Bisu's foot? Hmm Bisu, foot, dagger... Bisu, Dagger... BisuDagger... I just can't find the solution to this problem!
That was close. If you say my name three times you summon bisujuice.
On July 02 2015 11:38 prech wrote: After Bisu's SSL Ro16 match yesterday, he was interviewed by Esports Daily
For his closing statement, Bisu said "For me, the last Starleague I have to win is the OGN. I will be sure to win this tournament."
( snipealot for translation)
Not quite explicitly mentioning the enlistment, but perhaps alluding to it? As in the "last" title besides the MSL, or last of his career...
Such a handsome guy
Definitely is, but I don't feel that haircut compliments his face too well. It just puffs up and looks messy. I liked the mid-length straight hair he wore when he was younger.
Also, it's a relief to see him still playing! Starcraft without Bisu would be such a sad thing.
Anyone think about Jaedong, Flash, Fantasy, and Stork who all are getting up in age too and haven't served yet? They should all go at once and we can have another elephant in the room article.
On July 08 2015 07:23 N.geNuity wrote: I actually wonder if flash's arm surgery would make him do a desk job like iloveoov did
Might get some more free time
i dont know the severity of flash's arm injury but the injury has to be pretty bad for you to qualify for civil service (or whatever its called) iloveoov only got the desk job because his wife was about to give birth or just gave birth when he joined the military
(Given his stature in BW and Korean esports, I'd go for the "stall until you can" technique and milk as much money out of the fans as possible, like having subscriber-only live shows [not THAT kind, but like, FPOV playing minesweeper or something]. By the time he gets out of the army, say at 33 or so, he can have an Oldboy kinda show and he wouldn't suck as badly as NalRa!)
On July 09 2015 06:37 SlayerS_BunkiE wrote: Thanks to Orlok for clarifying the issue on how to delay enlistment.
So what happens if you don't get enlisted by age 35, does the government fine you? What are the sanctions? Or maybe I should google this some time.
From my understanding, you will forfeit your citizenship in the worst case scenario. I have Korean friends who lived abroad and then returned to Korea for their service and the following Reserve period (for 10 years after your service they will recall you twice a year for some orientation stuff). But beyond whatever the government does, the Korean people are very harsh on those found to have dodged the service.
On July 09 2015 06:37 SlayerS_BunkiE wrote: Thanks to Orlok for clarifying the issue on how to delay enlistment.
So what happens if you don't get enlisted by age 35, does the government fine you? What are the sanctions? Or maybe I should google this some time.
From my understanding, you will forfeit your citizenship in the worst case scenario. I have Korean friends who lived abroad and then returned to Korea for their service and the following Reserve period (for 10 years after your service they will recall you twice a year for some orientation stuff). But beyond whatever the government does, the Korean people are very harsh on those found to have dodged the service.
That's exactly it. From the Koreans I talked to, it's social suicide. You would just get ostracized. The only person they think it's okay if they don't go is their own sons lol.
It's a social responsibility. If everyone else has to go and you don't, people will really despise you. Like if you have a younger sibling who doesn't do chores but you have to
btw for anyone wondering bisu has confirmed on his stream back on 9th july that he has already successfully applied for a delay (till when he didnt say or show)
On July 08 2015 12:51 Caladbolg wrote: Bisu is such a fucking handsome guy. Goddamnit.
Oh and Protoss. YEAAAAH.
(Given his stature in BW and Korean esports, I'd go for the "stall until you can" technique and milk as much money out of the fans as possible, like having subscriber-only live shows [not THAT kind, but like, FPOV playing minesweeper or something]. By the time he gets out of the army, say at 33 or so, he can have an Oldboy kinda show and he wouldn't suck as badly as NalRa!)
I wasn't thinking of anything until I read the line in brackets HAHA
On July 16 2015 21:42 Probemicro wrote: btw for anyone wondering bisu has confirmed on his stream back on 9th july that he has already successfully applied for a delay (till when he didnt say or show)
Thanks for the update, i was checking this thread just to see if there was any news.
On July 08 2015 04:11 BisuDagger wrote: Anyone think about Jaedong, Flash, Fantasy, and Stork who all are getting up in age too and haven't served yet? They should all go at once and we can have another elephant in the room article.
I heard from somewhere that Flash might be able to dodge it, because there's an exemption for people who win a gold medal in the Asian Games, and Flash won the 2009 Asian Indoor Games. I'm not sure if that actually qualifies, though.
On July 08 2015 04:11 BisuDagger wrote: Anyone think about Jaedong, Flash, Fantasy, and Stork who all are getting up in age too and haven't served yet? They should all go at once and we can have another elephant in the room article.
I heard from somewhere that Flash might be able to dodge it, because there's an exemption for people who win a gold medal in the Asian Games, and Flash won the 2009 Asian Indoor Games. I'm not sure if that actually qualifies, though.
If that's true that's actually a pretty epic way to dodge it.
On July 08 2015 04:11 BisuDagger wrote: Anyone think about Jaedong, Flash, Fantasy, and Stork who all are getting up in age too and haven't served yet? They should all go at once and we can have another elephant in the room article.
I heard from somewhere that Flash might be able to dodge it, because there's an exemption for people who win a gold medal in the Asian Games, and Flash won the 2009 Asian Indoor Games. I'm not sure if that actually qualifies, though.
In the 2012 Olympics, the celebrations from the South Korean soccer (football) squad was pretty nuts. For winning the Bronze Medal.
The entire squad didn't have to serve in the military because of the Bronze. (It's also mostly an under-23 squad) That's kind of why the South Koreans compete really hard at the Olympics.
On July 08 2015 04:11 BisuDagger wrote: Anyone think about Jaedong, Flash, Fantasy, and Stork who all are getting up in age too and haven't served yet? They should all go at once and we can have another elephant in the room article.
I heard from somewhere that Flash might be able to dodge it, because there's an exemption for people who win a gold medal in the Asian Games, and Flash won the 2009 Asian Indoor Games. I'm not sure if that actually qualifies, though.
If that's true that's actually a pretty epic way to dodge it.
While that's a great scenario, its unlikely to ever be considered something equivalent to winning a olympic medal. Not only that, there's been some debate over the fairness for professional sports players about having their military service replaced with only a few months of training in Korea these past few years, so yeah....while it would be nice to have Flash in the scene longer, its almost impossible.
On July 08 2015 07:23 N.geNuity wrote: I actually wonder if flash's arm surgery would make him do a desk job like iloveoov did
Might get some more free time
i dont know the severity of flash's arm injury but the injury has to be pretty bad for you to qualify for civil service (or whatever its called) iloveoov only got the desk job because his wife was about to give birth or just gave birth when he joined the military
On July 09 2015 06:37 SlayerS_BunkiE wrote: Thanks to Orlok for clarifying the issue on how to delay enlistment.
So what happens if you don't get enlisted by age 35, does the government fine you? What are the sanctions? Or maybe I should google this some time.
From my understanding, you will forfeit your citizenship in the worst case scenario. I have Korean friends who lived abroad and then returned to Korea for their service and the following Reserve period (for 10 years after your service they will recall you twice a year for some orientation stuff). But beyond whatever the government does, the Korean people are very harsh on those found to have dodged the service.
That's exactly it. From the Koreans I talked to, it's social suicide. You would just get ostracized. The only person they think it's okay if they don't go is their own sons lol.
It's a social responsibility. If everyone else has to go and you don't, people will really despise you. Like if you have a younger sibling who doesn't do chores but you have to
Even for Bisu, it would be damaging.
Losing citizenship is going to be a big deal and of course people despising you might be even worse. Well, I hope bisu can still sort this even if he is able to delay his enlistment.
atm im pretty sure no indoor/mind game genres count towards exemption only the normal sporting events from the olympics and the asian games count world cup also
What is the official update on his enlistment?I remember seeing in the preview thread to hero vs bisu he got his mandatory papers.So is he going to the military for 2 years inevitably or is he going to find a way to stall it somehow?
On July 24 2015 05:13 Trozz wrote: If that dude can't stall, Bisu and his hair are hosed. Service strikes again.
I mean the whole point of the sports stars exemption is to honor those who "raised the Korean flag high", and I truly believe boxer fit the description and even he had to go, so no hopes for esports nerds now
On July 24 2015 05:13 Trozz wrote: If that dude can't stall, Bisu and his hair are hosed. Service strikes again.
I mean the whole point of the sports stars exemption is to honor those who "raised the Korean flag high", and I truly believe boxer fit the description and even he had to go, so no hopes for esports nerds now
Boxer and Elvis, was so important for their images and as idols to behave like society wants each of their admirers to behave. I mean they even build airforce ace for Boxer.
On July 08 2015 07:23 N.geNuity wrote: I actually wonder if flash's arm surgery would make him do a desk job like iloveoov did
Might get some more free time
i dont know the severity of flash's arm injury but the injury has to be pretty bad for you to qualify for civil service (or whatever its called) iloveoov only got the desk job because his wife was about to give birth or just gave birth when he joined the military
EPT
Bisu's stream and Sea's Afreeca BBS:![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/LEy7ry8l.png)
Pretty sure some recurter was watching those games and was like "fuck this cheesy toss, Im calling his number up!"
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/EYO7snD.jpg)
Bisu's, but the enlistment date/postponement topic hasn't come up.![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/4etkWEb.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/CGoKvfT.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/pltPa.jpg)
