EPTZero and Piano join SOSPA - Page 8
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operwolf
United States324 Posts
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kjwcj
Australia1064 Posts
!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! .... he's still going to lose to Sea, isn't he  | ||
Epoxide
Magic Woods9326 Posts
On October 29 2013 14:03 kjwcj wrote: A new (good) Zerg!!! !!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! .... he's still going to lose to Sea, isn't he YES :D | ||
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LuMiX
China5758 Posts
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NeuroticPsychosis
United States322 Posts
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miercat
394 Posts
ZerO's TLPD record against Sea is: 4 wins - 2 losses (66.67%) . So, no, I wouldn't make that a definite statement. Anyways, when Soulkey comes back, he can pretty much destroy all Terrans. | ||
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Fuchsteufelswild
Australia2028 Posts
On October 30 2013 03:42 miercat wrote: ZerO's TLPD record against Sea is: 4 wins - 2 losses (66.67%) . So, no, I wouldn't make that a definite statement. Anyways, when Soulkey comes back, he can pretty much destroy all Terrans. I wouldn't bet on Soulkey coming back in a hurry. Maybe after another Proleague season, or if Woongjin as a team falls through (if they don't join with Prime/other in Proleague this season) and he somehow can't get on another team for a satisfactory wage, then maybe, but he's done too well and is arguably still the best zerg around right now, so he's got plenty more realistic opportunities that players who weren't performing quite as well (ZerO) may not have had (supposing tey would roughly continue their form). | ||
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lolfail9001
Russian Federation40190 Posts
On October 30 2013 03:42 miercat wrote: Anyways, when Soulkey comes back, he can pretty much destroy all Terrans. I would not hope for that to happen any time soon though. | ||
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Taekwon
United States8155 Posts
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Miragee
8716 Posts
On October 29 2013 13:31 ChoDing wrote: welcome to hell zero <3 That game was so sad. Shows how important and difficult drone management can be. | ||
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Epoxide
Magic Woods9326 Posts
On October 30 2013 03:42 miercat wrote: ZerO's TLPD record against Sea is: 4 wins - 2 losses (66.67%) . So, no, I wouldn't make that a definite statement. Anyways, when Soulkey comes back, he can pretty much destroy all Terrans. Old records are pretty invalid. Things have changed way too much. | ||
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Miragee
8716 Posts
On October 31 2013 00:05 Epoxide wrote: Old records are pretty invalid. Things have changed way too much. Yeah, that's like the bw head-on-head statistics that where posted in the sc2 proleague... | ||
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kerpal
United Kingdom2695 Posts
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flashimba
225 Posts
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kerpal
United Kingdom2695 Posts
On November 01 2013 18:57 flashimba wrote: Didn't Flash say he was afraid of Zero's late game? that would surprise me, but I guess it's possible. Zero is the king of sexy queen usage. I don't know if zero will be able to beat sea, but I think he'll be alot closer to it than hero or larva are. | ||
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Epoxide
Magic Woods9326 Posts
On November 01 2013 18:54 kerpal wrote: on the other hand I think zero was one of the zergs who was actually capable of playing zvt, which isn't something you can say about any of the other sospa zergs. He definitely has the best background for it, he still needs to prove himself before we can say anything  | ||
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Shock710
Australia6097 Posts
On November 01 2013 18:54 kerpal wrote: on the other hand I think zero was one of the zergs who was actually capable of playing zvt, which isn't something you can say about any of the other sospa zergs. If your counting when they were progamers, i guess but atm Killers zvt is just amazing, even though hes has a losing record vs sea, alot of the games that he loses are quick werid loses (like dying to the first mm push, or some early rine push) Hes had some crazy good games in the late game. | ||
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pylonsalad
Canada649 Posts
On November 01 2013 18:57 flashimba wrote: Didn't Flash say he was afraid of Zero's late game? It's because Zero had the best late game large army control in the game. His maneouvering, flanking, and storm-dodging is second to none. | ||
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kerpal
United Kingdom2695 Posts
On November 01 2013 19:43 Shock710 wrote: If your counting when they were progamers, i guess but atm Killers zvt is just amazing, even though hes has a losing record vs sea, alot of the games that he loses are quick werid loses (like dying to the first mm push, or some early rine push) Hes had some crazy good games in the late game. Yeah, I think it's a product of how killer plays zvt (possibly how zerg needs to play in order to beat a player like sea?) you get games where killer holds off 3 pushes, each by the narrowest possible margin, but you also get games where he doesn't hold one of those pushes. I get the impression that killer plays zvt on a knife edge, which is why it looks so dumb when he loses. Sometimes he gets back with his mutas at the exact moment that the last sunken dies and kills all the marines for almost nothing, sometimes he gets there 10 seconds late and loses everything he has. In the first scenario he goes into the late game in a strong position and wins an amazing macro game, in the second scenario he looks like a noob. | ||
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miercat
394 Posts
On October 31 2013 00:05 Epoxide wrote: Old records are pretty invalid. Things have changed way too much. That response makes no sense at all. Records from that time period (whether you want to label them old or not is irrelevant - the statistics retain their specific qualities regardless), for the purpose in question (predicting current/future performance) are not invalid. "Things" have indeed changed, (as they often do over time) just, not in a sufficiently significant, or relevant, way to impact this discussion: A demonstrative example: Sea has a 4-0 record against Hyuk (similarly insert any zerg, larger/smaller sample size, from similar sample size, with any record against Sea), from a similar (or even earlier time period - than the Zero's 4-2 record against Sea). I haven't seen Hyuk play in a while, and I don't know anything about his recent form, but I can be reasonably sure what the result would be if he played a match against Sea (now, or anytime in the foreseeable future) JUST based on those "old" statistics. You haven't seen Zero play recently. You don't know anything about Zero right now. The only thing you know, is that Zero had a very good record against Sea in the timeframe in question, in relatively optimal conditions (e.g. practice and preparation). Consider that Sea had a much better record against many other Zergs from that time period, and Zero had a much worse record against many other Terrans from that time period. The obvious (I thought) and logical implication for these data, is that Zero has a play style that allows him a significant advantage over Sea (especially notable considering that TvZ is a favored matchup for Terrans, considering one of Sea's best matchups is TvZ (59%), considering that ZvT is Zero's worst matchup, and even taking into account the sample size: results from similar sample sizes of Sea vs. Zergs from that time period reveals the opposite trend - in short, disregard the relevance of the record, and associated data, at risk of compromising your own integrity). This is not an uncommon phenomenon, in Starcraft, and is typically stable over time - certainly Sea and Zero have had an overall consistent style of play, and certain features of their play has remained consistent - to the extent, that discussion of "change" may not be sufficiently relevant - i.e. indications are, that even if Sea has changed, the nature of Zero's advantageous was apparently not superficial/transitory (due to observed timeframe of record, and other contextual factors), but rather, more or less systematic) (certainly within the timeframes in question). So yes, I repeat, it is true, that in taking into account Zero's 4-2 record against Sea (and perhaps (but very nearly not necessarily), all of the associated statistics, and contextual information, from the time period in question, which you may or may not even be aware of, or inclined/able to effectively consider) you cannot definitively assume that Sea will beat Zero (whether it's now, or when Zero has practiced up to his potential). There is a lot more that I could provide, but I would prefer not to. It shouldn't be necessary - more a matter of common sense. (Besides, look up any amount of current relevant case examples(player vs. player: past record-current performance) - and you should find evidence of the general expected co-relation - of course, in this case, sufficient sample size will be required for sufficiently meaningful result) | ||
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