On September 30 2017 15:53 digitalctrash wrote: Can mods remove Sea from the stream list. It's really annoying to wait 30 seconds for afreeca to load when he's never actually playing brood war, or I don't know, move him somewhere from the broodwar streams list. thanks
alternative is to just watch other streams from the get go. I highly doubt Sea will be removed at this point in time.
disconnect gives lose, was changed a few days ago. Like 3. It will still say Draw, but according to blizzard thats the way it is right now. Opponent will get a lose and disconnect in the end(not immedaitely) and you wil get a win after a while aswell.
According to dev, it wil show up in the "ladder" button. So memorise your wins and then check later after your game
Thought I should cross-post this for Protoss players who aren't sure about what to upgrade first when getting Arbiters:
On October 03 2017 02:05 Jealous wrote: Here is the answer:
TL;DW: 1. If you get Energy first, then Stasis immediately after, Stasis will finish immediately upon you having 100 energy, give or take a couple due to human error. .: There is 0 benefit to getting Stasis first unless you are going to forget to get Stasis after Energy upgrade.
2. It may be beneficial for you to wait for your Energy upgrade to finish before you start your second Arbiter, because if you start your second Arbiter before the Energy upgrade finishes, both your first and second Arbiter will pop out with 50 energy. If you wait those 4 in-game seconds (roughly 3.7 seconds) your second Arbiter will have 62 energy; 12 energy takes longer to build up than those 4 in-game seconds. I wasn't sure of this on the spot, but upon rewatching I'm positive.
Something i never see in pvt is hallucinated shuttles moving into a turret+spiderman defence, dropping some units. Either 1 or 2 real shuttles, clearing the mines and then shortly afterwards having an arbiter recall at that place.
Hallucination in general seems like a guessing game for terran as well. I think its underused. If terran uses emp on an hallucinated arbiter for example, that can be huge.
The other thing in pvt that i think has potential but still not sure at all, is recall. When recalling on top of units(tanks,vults), instead of having the units clumped up, spread them up so it gets to a formation like this: * * P(no units here) * *
The star=units P=no units
You recall at the "P".
In tvz, when zerg goes queen what i never see is emp being used. So beware of that in the future, if you clump your queens.
Hallucination does get used, as does EMP vs. Queens. Using Shuttles might work like that, but there are two problems with that: 1. Hallucinations take double damage, so the Shuttles may have a hard time reaching the interior of the base. 2. Once you do that... Terran knows where you're going to recall? So they just send their whole army and lay mines all over again, or clean up the Hallucinations which take double damage extremely fast and simply set up? I mean, there are mind games you can do using this I guess, but wouldn't it be better to use these tactics for guaranteed Storm drops on mineral lines? I imagine Storm is generally preferred; Irradiate vs. Queens more guaranteed.
Terran might know or assume you are gonna recall, but vultures might be a fair bit off that location. So its still a good move making terran use extra spidermines and dedication on that area. Atleast thats my thought.
Also possible doing the shuttldrop to clear mines on two bases to just in general open up the defence of terran.
The other thing i would like to see, potentially atleast is the same shuttle drop with hallu but instead of doing it to just clear mine, have like 4 real ones with units. These units die fast vs vult/tank but they make terran dedicate resources to that location. So a good tool to split up some of terrans units while its also possible to recall those units back. Ideal would be if terrans armee is out on the map, then if terran send 12 vults or something to kill those units, you recall them right back into the big armee vs armee fight.
I just think speedshuttles and hallucination have a real place in the pvt matchup.
To bad there isnt a unittester, i would really like to test my recall thing. Have never seen it, but it must have been used a bit atleast.
On October 04 2017 06:20 Foxxan wrote: Terran might know or assume you are gonna recall, but vultures might be a fair bit off that location. So its still a good move making terran use extra spidermines and dedication on that area. Atleast thats my thought.
Also possible doing the shuttldrop to clear mines on two bases to just in general open up the defence of terran.
The other thing i would like to see, potentially atleast is the same shuttle drop with hallu but instead of doing it to just clear mine, have like 4 real ones with units. These units die fast vs vult/tank but they make terran dedicate resources to that location. So a good tool to split up some of terrans units while its also possible to recall those units back. Ideal would be if terrans armee is out on the map, then if terran send 12 vults or something to kill those units, you recall them right back into the big armee vs armee fight.
I just think speedshuttles and hallucination have a real place in the pvt matchup.
To bad there isnt a unittester, i would really like to test my recall thing. Have never seen it, but it must have been used a bit atleast.
Honestly, I think if it was something that was viable, we'd have at least one progame example from post-2001 that has it in there (and not just for bm/funsies). I have seen hundreds of games if not thousands and I don't recall anything similar. If Korean players + coaching staff haven't found this possibility to be worthwhile, we just might be missing something about it because we are too noob. For example - how late you end up getting speed upgrade due to gas constraints in PvT, the energy and gas cost of Hallucination vs. alternatives that are more guaranteed, the fact that having that many Templar extra (and the 4 Shuttles idea you brought up... that's a lot of extra supply for a very low drop capacity), etc.
On October 04 2017 06:20 Foxxan wrote: Terran might know or assume you are gonna recall, but vultures might be a fair bit off that location. So its still a good move making terran use extra spidermines and dedication on that area. Atleast thats my thought.
Also possible doing the shuttldrop to clear mines on two bases to just in general open up the defence of terran.
The other thing i would like to see, potentially atleast is the same shuttle drop with hallu but instead of doing it to just clear mine, have like 4 real ones with units. These units die fast vs vult/tank but they make terran dedicate resources to that location. So a good tool to split up some of terrans units while its also possible to recall those units back. Ideal would be if terrans armee is out on the map, then if terran send 12 vults or something to kill those units, you recall them right back into the big armee vs armee fight.
I just think speedshuttles and hallucination have a real place in the pvt matchup.
To bad there isnt a unittester, i would really like to test my recall thing. Have never seen it, but it must have been used a bit atleast.
Have you never recalled anything before? It doesn't matter what formation you have them in, they get placed under the arbiter from the center outwards.
Is there any solution to terrible lag? Something like port forwarded or something for SCR? I've been getting pretty laggy games with people from same city when we play team games (extra high latency+split second delay between commands and fastest game mode pretty much playing at fast or normal speed), and just now I played someone in east coast as a west coaster, and I got 1-1.5 sec input delay between commands...
On October 04 2017 16:16 jinjin5000 wrote: Is there any solution to terrible lag? Something like port forwarded or something for SCR? I've been getting pretty laggy games with people from same city when we play team games (extra high latency+split second delay between commands and fastest game mode pretty much playing at fast or normal speed), and just now I played someone in east coast as a west coaster, and I got 1-1.5 sec input delay between commands...
On October 04 2017 06:20 Foxxan wrote: Terran might know or assume you are gonna recall, but vultures might be a fair bit off that location. So its still a good move making terran use extra spidermines and dedication on that area. Atleast thats my thought.
Also possible doing the shuttldrop to clear mines on two bases to just in general open up the defence of terran.
The other thing i would like to see, potentially atleast is the same shuttle drop with hallu but instead of doing it to just clear mine, have like 4 real ones with units. These units die fast vs vult/tank but they make terran dedicate resources to that location. So a good tool to split up some of terrans units while its also possible to recall those units back. Ideal would be if terrans armee is out on the map, then if terran send 12 vults or something to kill those units, you recall them right back into the big armee vs armee fight.
I just think speedshuttles and hallucination have a real place in the pvt matchup.
To bad there isnt a unittester, i would really like to test my recall thing. Have never seen it, but it must have been used a bit atleast.
Have you never recalled anything before? It doesn't matter what formation you have them in, they get placed under the arbiter from the center outwards.
On October 04 2017 06:20 Foxxan wrote: Terran might know or assume you are gonna recall, but vultures might be a fair bit off that location. So its still a good move making terran use extra spidermines and dedication on that area. Atleast thats my thought.
Also possible doing the shuttldrop to clear mines on two bases to just in general open up the defence of terran.
The other thing i would like to see, potentially atleast is the same shuttle drop with hallu but instead of doing it to just clear mine, have like 4 real ones with units. These units die fast vs vult/tank but they make terran dedicate resources to that location. So a good tool to split up some of terrans units while its also possible to recall those units back. Ideal would be if terrans armee is out on the map, then if terran send 12 vults or something to kill those units, you recall them right back into the big armee vs armee fight.
I just think speedshuttles and hallucination have a real place in the pvt matchup.
To bad there isnt a unittester, i would really like to test my recall thing. Have never seen it, but it must have been used a bit atleast.
Honestly, I think if it was something that was viable, we'd have at least one progame example from post-2001 that has it in there (and not just for bm/funsies). I have seen hundreds of games if not thousands and I don't recall anything similar. If Korean players + coaching staff haven't found this possibility to be worthwhile, we just might be missing something about it because we are too noob. For example - how late you end up getting speed upgrade due to gas constraints in PvT, the energy and gas cost of Hallucination vs. alternatives that are more guaranteed, the fact that having that many Templar extra (and the 4 Shuttles idea you brought up... that's a lot of extra supply for a very low drop capacity), etc.
I disagree here since protoss in 2001 was so different. No arbiters, low gas income, hightemplars usually not needed. Terran didnt prioritise upgrades either.
It wasnt until 2007/2008 flash started doing double armory builds. And protoss needed to adapt to it. And in 2012(?) bw got shut down. And flash came back in 2015(?) So we had a bit of a gap here with much less broodwar. Protoss has never needed to do stuff like this, and protoss has potential in the arbiter. I think we will see better use of recalls in the future.
For example, not needed to recall to a terran base. Use it to make two armees for flanking in the middle of the map for example.
And with better use of the arbiter, we might see more moves such as my example.
2hightemplars+4shuttles=10supply. What this supply do is kinda big. First, it clears the mines for a potential devastating recall. Second, it might kill 1 or 2 tanks for terran. Not to uncommon for terran to defend with 1 or 2tanks? Third, it makes terran move some units there to defend. Fourth, protoss can recall those units back to aid against the big mech armee if its out on the map.
I say its potentially totally worth it. Its around 800gas total btw, with 2hightemplars. Its alot, yes. But its also worth mentioning that speed shuttle is good in general, especially if you have 4templars in there for storm. Also hallucination can be used against the mech armee as well. Hallucinate the shuttle, and use it in combat. What shuttle is real?
Goliaths are usually not in the front, so terran wont know immediately. Makes it harder to target fire for the tanks. Something else i would like to see is speedshuttle with 1dark archon inside to feedback sciense vessels. No idea how fast feedback is when dropped from shuttle though.
On October 04 2017 16:16 jinjin5000 wrote: Is there any solution to terrible lag? Something like port forwarded or something for SCR? I've been getting pretty laggy games with people from same city when we play team games (extra high latency+split second delay between commands and fastest game mode pretty much playing at fast or normal speed), and just now I played someone in east coast as a west coaster, and I got 1-1.5 sec input delay between commands...
Port forwarding is still a thing.
haha so port forwarding is now a hidden requirement for fixing lag I see... I have my port forwarded, that's why I'm getting less lag than a lot of others I guess.. so very easy to use the game at least if you didn't port forward before you didn't get any extra lag did you? only cant make game
On September 30 2017 23:46 Foxxan wrote: disconnect gives lose, was changed a few days ago. Like 3. It will still say Draw, but according to blizzard thats the way it is right now. Opponent will get a lose and disconnect in the end(not immedaitely) and you wil get a win after a while aswell.
According to dev, it wil show up in the "ladder" button. So memorise your wins and then check later after your game
Quitting very early on gives a loss, right? Sometimes the lag is too much
PS. does anyone know if the ladder matchmaking works across servers? Do you get matched with someone in Korea if you're playing ranked on West?
On the arbiter post: That sounds pretty efficient, cool. I wonder how often pros do that, I mean surely they know these timings but I rarely saw vods of them getting the energy upgrade first (or maybe I'm not paying attention well enough.)
On October 05 2017 00:09 c3rberUs wrote: On the arbiter post: That sounds pretty efficient, cool. I wonder how often pros do that, I mean surely they know these timings but I rarely saw vods of them getting the energy upgrade first (or maybe I'm not paying attention well enough.)
Thanks jealous
I have actually seen it quite frequently! I can't point to any specific examples, but I thought this was a well-known thing. The "Stasis first if in trouble," thing seems to be a widespread fabricated rumor and probably based on anecdotal situations where chobos didn't get Stasis immediately after Energy.
EPT
