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On November 14 2012 19:34 Falling wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2012 18:56 Shockk wrote:On November 14 2012 18:20 L_Master wrote:What in the motherfucking hell is this bullshit!? Fucking kidding me? Seriously blizzard FUCK YOU and go die in a fucking hole or something. While this may not totally kill SSL, it certainly fucks up everyone that had invested in preparing a pretty awesome finals and what was a nicely run tournament. All there is at the moment is one side of the story and so far there are four pages of massive anti-SC2, anti-Blizzard circlejerk, filled to the brim with hate and hyperbole. Sure, the current state of BW is nothing to be too happy about. But if this is TeamLiquid's reaction to the issue (or at least TL's BW crowd), then please, don't act surprised if TL and the "Broodwar elitists" are met with disdain everywhere else.
This may be one of the last great bastions of BW fandom on the web, this may be your little club to hang out and socialize, but you're doing an abysmal job of representing the oh-so "mature" StarCraft community. Now do me a favor, and kindly get out of here with your clueless talk and ignorance. Oh, I'll gladly leave. I appreciate your response; despite the overwhelming arrogance, yours is still one of the more level-headed replies. While you're all busy circlejerking, remember that this thread and these posts are TL's response to the situation. You could have taken the high road, waited for the other side to make a statement and either stayed silent in the meantime or at least have taken a more civil approach. Instead, it's gone right to the ugly part - SC2 is killing BW, FUCK BLIZZARD, "we don't want SC2 fanboys in here", FUCK BLIZZARD, FUCK BLIZZARD. So mature. So manner. Understand that I'm not taking any issues with you guys blowing off steam. I agree that it's very questionable what Blizzard did there. I understand passion, and hot-headed reactions regarding threats to one's hobby. But this thread is pathetic. Ok. This is actually irritating me more than it ought to. Talk about arrogance. You pop in here all high and mighty saying what the BW forum is like these days. Actually, the BW subforum has been pretty upbeat and cheerful these days. You'd see more SC2 bashing in LR threads and the HotS subforum than you did in the BW subforum. The SC2 vs BW thing had kinda faded even. It was reasonably peaceable and forward looking. There was hope. Things were picking up. We had new tournaments and old players coming back. And then this comes crashing down. A stake into these new found dreams. At the risk of sounding melodramatic, you show up at a gathering where news has just arrived of someone dear who might not make it. And then you have the audacity to come in here and tell us we should take the high road. That this is the reason you don't like the BW subforum? Rain at a funeral man. Rain at a funeral. This thread is not representative of the current state of BW subforums, nor will it be representative of it in the future. We're not even steamed about SC2 or SC2 fans. It's all about Blizzard. I probably shouldn't have replied to that and I don't want to rabble. But there it is.
When you phrase it that way of course it will sound melodramatic. The situation is that someone didn't handle the licensing correctly and that's mostly it. Just because it fits in the preconceived ideas of the posters who hate Blizzard doesn't excuse half of the posts being "!@#$ blizzard" and the other half being "SC2 is !@#$ing awful". It's not a good idea to post on a forum when you're highly emotional, I mean, people get banned for posting drunk.
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On November 14 2012 21:41 SnowFantasy wrote:
Good.
If not even Blizzard defends their Intellectual Property, who will?
If not even the audience stands up to the retarded legislation and companies that enforce it, who will?
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GRAND OLD AMERICA16375 Posts
I, what? Does it really matter to have the licenses? I was looking forward to watching the finals...
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Did Blizz actually shut down the SSL because they don't want BW tournaments at all, or is it because they wanted a licensing fee for a BW tournament the same way they do for an SC2 tournament?
I know BW vs SC2 is a popular thread to have, but Blizz has fucked over SC2 tournaments as well (Totalbiscuit).
What did Blizzard actually want, to resolve the licensing issues?
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On November 14 2012 22:26 Ribbon wrote:
Did Blizz actually shut down the SSL because they don't want BW tournaments at all, or is it because they wanted a licensing fee for a BW tournament the same way they do for an SC2 tournament?
I know BW vs SC2 is a popular thread to have, but Blizz has fucked over SC2 tournaments as well (Totalbiscuit).
What did Blizzard actually want, to resolve the licensing issues?
They have separate licensing terms for BW and SC2.
On November 14 2012 19:54 ArvickHero wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2012 19:47 JohnChoi wrote:On November 14 2012 19:38 Asha` wrote:Does anyone know more details about the exact nature of the licensing stuff? There has been a long standing stipulation that tournaments with a bigger than $5k prize pool (that SSL does have this season) have to negotiate licensing terms with Blizzard and I wonder if this is what has come up See TB's blog regarding his SCI tournaments for SC2You are probably aware that the standard tournament license has a $5000 limit on it. Go any higher than that and you have to arrange things with Blizzard, which as I've explained before, usually involves them taking a share of your ad revenue, which for this tournament would hurt us more than it would help. Different games of course but I wouldn't be surprised if Blizzard's licensing is the same across both. I believe this is the first season of the SSL to clear the $5k prize pool mark and perhaps this is what he's run into issues with? Not sure if it is plausible but maybe he could just lower the prize pool to the $5k limit in the short term if this might be the case. I'm sure the players would understand and be sympathetic. I read a post on sonics page saying hte limit is $500 prize pool and he surpassed that amount on multiple tourneys.. sourcelast (event, not official .. like 6.5) SSL had a sponsor and 3k prize pool which is well over 500 .. along w/ many of his other SSLs and BJ Ranking tourneys So Blizz has separate rules for SC2 and BW for prize pool limits.
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Blizzard's greed have no limit
and that's pretty sad
also anyone that cares about this should boycott HotS; the only way to show you don't support this company's actions is with your wallet.
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It is hard to see how once beloved game company has been entagled with greed and hate to own child.
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On November 14 2012 22:31 jpak wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2012 22:26 Ribbon wrote:
Did Blizz actually shut down the SSL because they don't want BW tournaments at all, or is it because they wanted a licensing fee for a BW tournament the same way they do for an SC2 tournament?
I know BW vs SC2 is a popular thread to have, but Blizz has fucked over SC2 tournaments as well (Totalbiscuit).
What did Blizzard actually want, to resolve the licensing issues? They have separate licensing terms for BW and SC2. Show nested quote +On November 14 2012 19:54 ArvickHero wrote:On November 14 2012 19:47 JohnChoi wrote:On November 14 2012 19:38 Asha` wrote:Does anyone know more details about the exact nature of the licensing stuff? There has been a long standing stipulation that tournaments with a bigger than $5k prize pool (that SSL does have this season) have to negotiate licensing terms with Blizzard and I wonder if this is what has come up See TB's blog regarding his SCI tournaments for SC2You are probably aware that the standard tournament license has a $5000 limit on it. Go any higher than that and you have to arrange things with Blizzard, which as I've explained before, usually involves them taking a share of your ad revenue, which for this tournament would hurt us more than it would help. Different games of course but I wouldn't be surprised if Blizzard's licensing is the same across both. I believe this is the first season of the SSL to clear the $5k prize pool mark and perhaps this is what he's run into issues with? Not sure if it is plausible but maybe he could just lower the prize pool to the $5k limit in the short term if this might be the case. I'm sure the players would understand and be sympathetic. I read a post on sonics page saying hte limit is $500 prize pool and he surpassed that amount on multiple tourneys.. sourcelast (event, not official .. like 6.5) SSL had a sponsor and 3k prize pool which is well over 500 .. along w/ many of his other SSLs and BJ Ranking tourneys So Blizz has separate rules for SC2 and BW for prize pool limits.
That seems weird. Blizz is aware of Team Liquid, and therefore the BW forum, and yet the ISL wasn't shut down.
I'm not saying Blizzard aren't being dicks here, but I'd like to know the whole story before I get on the bandwagon. What did Blizzard want?
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On November 14 2012 22:33 SagaZ wrote:
Blizzard's greed have no limit
and that's pretty sad
also anyone that cares about this should boycott HotS; the only way to show you don't support this company's actions is with your wallet.
sure, sc2 isnt good no matter what add on it is going to have.
that's some fundamental problems, it cant be solved unless the whole game is to be remade.
if bw cant broadcast in KOR then i will watch cosl..
china seems to be the last heaven of bw?
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On November 14 2012 16:46 BLinD-RawR wrote:
Ladies and Gentlemen would you please join me in the attempt to make the Biggest fuck you to Blizzard in Internet History?
FUCK OFF BLIZZARD!
Might as well join in the rallying cry. This is an incredibly cruel and retarded move from Blizzard.
FUCK OFF BLIZZARD!
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On November 14 2012 22:40 Ribbon wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2012 22:31 jpak wrote:On November 14 2012 22:26 Ribbon wrote:
Did Blizz actually shut down the SSL because they don't want BW tournaments at all, or is it because they wanted a licensing fee for a BW tournament the same way they do for an SC2 tournament?
I know BW vs SC2 is a popular thread to have, but Blizz has fucked over SC2 tournaments as well (Totalbiscuit).
What did Blizzard actually want, to resolve the licensing issues? They have separate licensing terms for BW and SC2. On November 14 2012 19:54 ArvickHero wrote:On November 14 2012 19:47 JohnChoi wrote:On November 14 2012 19:38 Asha` wrote:Does anyone know more details about the exact nature of the licensing stuff? There has been a long standing stipulation that tournaments with a bigger than $5k prize pool (that SSL does have this season) have to negotiate licensing terms with Blizzard and I wonder if this is what has come up See TB's blog regarding his SCI tournaments for SC2You are probably aware that the standard tournament license has a $5000 limit on it. Go any higher than that and you have to arrange things with Blizzard, which as I've explained before, usually involves them taking a share of your ad revenue, which for this tournament would hurt us more than it would help. Different games of course but I wouldn't be surprised if Blizzard's licensing is the same across both. I believe this is the first season of the SSL to clear the $5k prize pool mark and perhaps this is what he's run into issues with? Not sure if it is plausible but maybe he could just lower the prize pool to the $5k limit in the short term if this might be the case. I'm sure the players would understand and be sympathetic. I read a post on sonics page saying hte limit is $500 prize pool and he surpassed that amount on multiple tourneys.. sourcelast (event, not official .. like 6.5) SSL had a sponsor and 3k prize pool which is well over 500 .. along w/ many of his other SSLs and BJ Ranking tourneys So Blizz has separate rules for SC2 and BW for prize pool limits. That seems weird. Blizz is aware of Team Liquid, and therefore the BW forum, and yet the ISL wasn't shut down. I'm not saying Blizzard aren't being dicks here, but I'd like to know the whole story before I get on the bandwagon. What did Blizzard want?
I see the word WHOLE STORY and I think yeah probably I could get the whole story if I was sonic best friend .
Definitely not the whole story here .. especially when the terms could(sonic didn't even release the letter or email he received) be really picky,meticulous or what should I call it overzealous ? This are my assumptions but what the hell, for the record we are talking about blizzard here.
Hi, Its BJ Sonic
First off, I apologize for having to deliver sad news. The feeling of having reached my limit.. makes me very discouraged.
As I was preparing this finals, I was just as if not more so uneasy and in anticipation.
Currently, streaming starcraft in restricted. The finals and the starleague to come are put in a diffcult situation.
I spoke with Blizzard Korea, In order to broadcast I need buy a license to host the finals and one to broadcast. The conditions are also very meticulous/picky. Only two the until the final and I get this call..
I am currently in the process of negotiating.
I most likely won't get an approval by this weekend.. The starleague has to be canceled for now.. I want to host the finals as just an individual broadcasting jockey (I think he means not tied to Afreeca/Nowcom) but no real message is getting through.
There are already contracts that are in place, and big losses in funds and to top it off this.. My heart aches.
I am in the process of tirelessly looking for some kind of solution.
Having found a location for the finals, everything was set up and managed so well but this situation happened.. I am really in a state of shock.
It's going to take an even bigger amount of funds to buy licenses for Brood War. It's become incredibly difficult to even broadcast Brood War on my Afreeca stream.
As a broadcasting jockey, I'm not sure how to even handle this situation.. Just..sigh..
First, I will continue to give it my all.. I will continue to keep you all updated.
Nowcom (Afreeca's parent company) has also received a copyright lawsuit from Blizzard. If I just go ahead and host the finals, the stream will be forced to shutdown..
In order to obtain a Blizzard License it'll take approximately 2 weeks.. it would be impossible to obtain a license within this week (for the finals).
To begin with, there's the issue of obtaining 2 licenses.. I will continue to update you all.
Until I obtain a license for the finals I am not able to do anything.
Whether its the SinbalFarm Offline or the Online Broadcast..
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On November 14 2012 18:37 Falling wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2012 17:58 Shockk wrote:
It's been a while since I've been to the Broodwar forums, but this thread is outright depressing. Not because of the sad news for SSL, but because of the reactions of the vast majority of posters in this thread.
All there is at the moment is one side of the story and so far there are four pages of massive anti-SC2, anti-Blizzard circlejerk, filled to the brim with hate and hyperbole. Sure, the current state of BW is nothing to be too happy about. But if this is TeamLiquid's reaction to the issue (or at least TL's BW crowd), then please, don't act surprised if TL and the "Broodwar elitists" are met with disdain everywhere else.
This may be one of the last great bastions of BW fandom on the web, this may be your little club to hang out and socialize, but you're doing an abysmal job of representing the oh-so "mature" StarCraft community. What is the mature and reasonable reaction you are expecting? If after 12 years, all the SC2 tourneys got shut down or tranitioned into MOBA games. All the pros and casters retire or switch to MOBA games. And then one guy started up a SC2 tourney because he's passionate about it. And then a bunch of the old SC2 pro's started showing up. And then Tastosis said they'd like to cast the finals. So you're super psyched. And then Blizzard drops a cease and desist two days before the tourney? What other reaction is there?
More information, hearing all sides? Maybe Blizzard Korea was somewhat mischaracterized or misunderstood? Maybe Blizzard Korea acted without consent or without even informing Blizzard HQ? Maybe the real issue lies deeper and the license trouble is only a surface issue? Maybe the SSL was organized very slopplily without getting Blizzard's confirmation to run this large tournament at all and now the tournament blames Blizzard for their own faults?
Or maybe Blizzard does consist of acclowns who think that with OSL transistioned to SC2, it's time to shut down any effort to run a good BW tourey? We don't know unless we get more information.
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I still don't understand how people can be so blind against this shit (I don't mean TL people, but people in general). Once something is "on the computer" it miraculously becomes "intelectual" property, not just property.
I am using this paralel everytime in the discussion with IP fanatics and all the time their arguments are just blabbering - how comes that rallye organizators don't have to pay to the car manufacturers licence fees for using their product in broadcasting? It's only because it is "physical", whereas things like SC2 are "intelectual". But this difference makes no sense in today's world, when almost everything that matters is online.
Laws that would end this mess need to be expediently enacted across the worlds. It needs to be clearly said that you have the right to BUY software and other "intelectual" property as much as you have the right to buy physical objects - and that you can to what you please with them afterwards. Otherwise we are just going to be slaves of big comapnies forever.
I am not advocating software piracy. Selling unauthorized copies of software should be punishable. But using the software in however matter I please should NOT.
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Well by the looks of this Blizzard's only fuckup was the timing, Sonic on the other hand should have known about the licensing requirement before he began. Either he made a major blunder or tried to slip the tournament without paying, hoping blizzard wouldn't notice/care. Not as simple as fuck blizzard imo.
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United States33027 Posts
The timing by Blizzard was absolutely terrible.
But there is no doubt that Sonic is at fault as the tournament organizer for not taking care of such an important issue beforehand.
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On November 14 2012 22:48 Sawamura wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2012 22:40 Ribbon wrote:On November 14 2012 22:31 jpak wrote:On November 14 2012 22:26 Ribbon wrote:
Did Blizz actually shut down the SSL because they don't want BW tournaments at all, or is it because they wanted a licensing fee for a BW tournament the same way they do for an SC2 tournament?
I know BW vs SC2 is a popular thread to have, but Blizz has fucked over SC2 tournaments as well (Totalbiscuit).
What did Blizzard actually want, to resolve the licensing issues? They have separate licensing terms for BW and SC2. On November 14 2012 19:54 ArvickHero wrote:On November 14 2012 19:47 JohnChoi wrote:On November 14 2012 19:38 Asha` wrote:Does anyone know more details about the exact nature of the licensing stuff? There has been a long standing stipulation that tournaments with a bigger than $5k prize pool (that SSL does have this season) have to negotiate licensing terms with Blizzard and I wonder if this is what has come up See TB's blog regarding his SCI tournaments for SC2You are probably aware that the standard tournament license has a $5000 limit on it. Go any higher than that and you have to arrange things with Blizzard, which as I've explained before, usually involves them taking a share of your ad revenue, which for this tournament would hurt us more than it would help. Different games of course but I wouldn't be surprised if Blizzard's licensing is the same across both. I believe this is the first season of the SSL to clear the $5k prize pool mark and perhaps this is what he's run into issues with? Not sure if it is plausible but maybe he could just lower the prize pool to the $5k limit in the short term if this might be the case. I'm sure the players would understand and be sympathetic. I read a post on sonics page saying hte limit is $500 prize pool and he surpassed that amount on multiple tourneys.. sourcelast (event, not official .. like 6.5) SSL had a sponsor and 3k prize pool which is well over 500 .. along w/ many of his other SSLs and BJ Ranking tourneys So Blizz has separate rules for SC2 and BW for prize pool limits. That seems weird. Blizz is aware of Team Liquid, and therefore the BW forum, and yet the ISL wasn't shut down. I'm not saying Blizzard aren't being dicks here, but I'd like to know the whole story before I get on the bandwagon. What did Blizzard want? I see the word WHOLE STORY and I think yeah probably I could get the whole story if I was sonic best friend . Definitely not the whole story here .. especially when the terms could(sonic didn't even release the letter or email he received) be really picky,meticulous or what should I call it overzealous ? This are my assumptions but what the hell, for the record we are talking about blizzard here.
My assumption is that it's closer to Blizzard's rules for SC2 tournaments. Totalbiscuit had to shut down an SC2 tournament because Blizz wanted half the ad revenue. Maybe Blizzard wanted a licensing fee, or their logo all over everything, or just want BW tournaments to be cleared by them in advance to protect the IP.
Maybe Blizz Korea are a bunch of douchebags, and everyone on the anger train is right. But I doubt Blizz shut the tournament down solely because they didn't want it going on.
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Licensing is an absolute sham. It continues to blow my mind that courts have been hoodwinked into buying this nonsense about "intellectual property" hook, line and sinker.
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Croatia9462 Posts
On November 14 2012 22:59 Waxangel wrote:
The timing by Blizzard was absolutely terrible.
But there is no doubt that Sonic is at fault as the tournament organizer for not taking care of such an important issue beforehand.
There's also a problem of BW license fee beeing way too expensive, for someone like Sonic who's funding most of the things from his own pocket.
I agree with the guy who mentioned that maybe we could get in contact with Sonic and offer to gather money to pay for his license fee.
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On November 14 2012 20:04 Plexa wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2012 19:58 iLoveKT wrote:On November 14 2012 19:55 Gamegene wrote:On November 14 2012 19:52 Pro7ecT wrote:
There is the "Blizzard Entertainment Online Tournament Agreement", it's a little bit an older version, but anyways..
...
* (e) You may hold the Tournament in any country other than the Republic of Korea; ~_~ It says the license is specifically for SC2:WoL though. It would be nice if we could do something like make a donation to Sonic for license fee. This isn't a bad idea.
I'm just posting to say that I really agree with this idea. I think it would be great to set up a donation to help Sonic pay the license fee. While I'm not entirely sure how much the license would cost, it would still be nice if we saw something like this so we could help him even if it was in the very slightest.
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EPT
