EPTBasically, Flash became untouchable, it gives me the chills how much higher his numbers go above the other bonjwas.
Flash definitely isn't a bonjwa. He deserves something more prestigious, something that is made for him exclusively.
Statistical Bonjwa Theory: the History of BW - Page 3
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Thorn Raven
United States126 Posts
Basically, Flash became untouchable, it gives me the chills how much higher his numbers go above the other bonjwas. Flash definitely isn't a bonjwa. He deserves something more prestigious, something that is made for him exclusively. | ||
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TommyP
United States6231 Posts
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johanes
Czech Republic2229 Posts
On August 01 2012 03:58 TommyP wrote: I dont have the greatest knowledge of Brood War, but isnt Bonjwa given when everybody knows he is the best player at that point in time? So how do stats prove that? And if Flash is the greatest player of all-time, how is he not a bonjwa? thanks for answering these questions guys. Plus I thought Flash was already considered a bonjwa? IIRC Flash was officially proclaimed to be beyond bonjwa, he is in his own class. Its like S-class<bonjwa<God<Flash. But this discussion is redundant, it has been discussed to death already. | ||
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muta_micro
United States183 Posts
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pieisamazing
United States1234 Posts
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dRaW
Canada5744 Posts
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Xiphos
Canada7507 Posts
On August 01 2012 04:29 muta_micro wrote: Some things cannot be calculated, like the artistry of the play. Flash is the best ever, but no one can seriously argue that his play is as beautiful as Savior's. The way Savior controlled space with almost nothing was extraordinary. It seems to me that Flash discovered some kind of "attrition priniciple", where he understood that Terran is most cost effective and therefore he can defend and trade armies in late game behind a line of tanks, at least in TvZ. Well without that EVER OSL 2009, he would have never went into his rampage. And he faced against ALL Zs in that tourny before meeting Movie. | ||
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ymir233
United States8275 Posts
Flash is better than JD though...sigh that pains me as a JD fanboy | ||
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Malinor
Germany4731 Posts
I never thought the bonjwa discussions serve any purpose, there is such weird circumstances to obtain that title. Excluding JD from the list of the other 5 players feels incredibly weird, because he clearly was as good as them, if not better than most. What I really love about Flash vs JD is that their head-to-head is 24-24 in TLPD (you have to substract the all-star game win from Flash, that was the definition of a fun-game). While most of their games were pretty one-sided, some of them were unbelievable good. If the Tau Cross game during the WCG Grand Final would have been played during an OSL Final, it would probably be remembered as the best ZvT game of all time (besides Savior vs Iris game 5 of course). | ||
]343[
United States10328 Posts
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Plexa
Aotearoa39261 Posts
On August 01 2012 02:03 Fionn wrote: I thought Flash was proclaimed a bonjwa by the Korean press after he won the MSL/OSL in a span of a week? Pretty sure he's the 5th. Mmm while I don't speak Korean the impression I got was that they didn't call him a Bonjwa, but rather called him 'God' as a way of saying he was better than them. So technically, not the 5th bonjwa! | ||
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{ToT}ColmA
Japan3260 Posts
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d_ijk_stra
United States36 Posts
On August 01 2012 07:17 Plexa wrote: Mmm while I don't speak Korean the impression I got was that they didn't call him a Bonjwa, but rather called him 'God' as a way of saying he was better than them. So technically, not the 5th bonjwa! I second that opinion. I am Korean, and I think Koreans just called him 'God' but not a 'bonjwa'. | ||
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AcrossFiveJulys
United States3612 Posts
On July 31 2012 23:13 mathemagician1986 wrote: that graph doesn't tell me anything to be honest. too many lines. What you're supposed to see is that, despite the lines of every player being present (correct me if I'm wrong) you can see the bonjwas lines individually during the times they were dominant. | ||
Waxangel
United States33492 Posts
On August 01 2012 07:17 Plexa wrote: Mmm while I don't speak Korean the impression I got was that they didn't call him a Bonjwa, but rather called him 'God' as a way of saying he was better than them. So technically, not the 5th bonjwa! http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=154423#three REQUIRED READING FOR EVERYONE "I once compared the concept of Bonjwa to the Seven Wonders of the Ancient World. It was an honorary title with no rhyme or reason to it, only created to fit a specific need at a certain period in time. People have and will continue to try and invoke it in the future, but it will never have its original meaning and or be recognized in the same way again." | ||
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nadafanboy42
Netherlands209 Posts
On August 01 2012 07:31 Waxangel wrote: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=154423#three REQUIRED READING FOR EVERYONE "I once compared the concept of Bonjwa to the Seven Wonders of the Ancient World. It was an honorary title with no rhyme or reason to it, only created to fit a specific need at a certain period in time. People have and will continue to try and invoke it in the future, but it will never have its original meaning and or be recognized in the same way again." You should make it a test. For one week noone can enter teamliquid.net unless they succesfully answer a three-page multiple choice questionaire on ESPORTS history and terminology. Would be awesome!Or just make it a Beta-key contest whenever HotS beta comes around... | ||
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Jealous
10232 Posts
On August 01 2012 07:31 Waxangel wrote: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=154423#three REQUIRED READING FOR EVERYONE "I once compared the concept of Bonjwa to the Seven Wonders of the Ancient World. It was an honorary title with no rhyme or reason to it, only created to fit a specific need at a certain period in time. People have and will continue to try and invoke it in the future, but it will never have its original meaning and or be recognized in the same way again." Agreed. It's sad how the amount of "____ is bonjwa" has not declined over the years. So sick of people saying "lol there is no way Flash can't be bonjwa" when they don't know anything about anything really -_- | ||
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Zaedyn
1 Post
On July 31 2012 21:48 rift wrote: This uses Glicko-2, which Trueskill is based on, and is the best rating system. Source is every game in TLPD. GLICKO-2 also improves on Elo with the introduction of a reliability rating, which assesses the accuracy of a player's score depending how recently they've played games. The TTT model is also posed in a Bayesian framework, like Glicko-2. It also measures uncertainty (which just isn't included in in these graphs) and volatility. Unlike Glicko-2, TTT is fit using a state-of-the-art inference method (Expectation Propagation). Glicko-2 is a single-pass method over the set, probably chunked 5 games at a time (if you don't, the Newton-Raphson iterative step won't be effective). TTT is multi-pass, simultaneously considering all of the data, AND accounting for skill changes over time. I personally prefer the inference method used for this analysis over Glicko-2, and I know the authors of both. I would trust these > Glicko-2. | ||
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The_Masked_Shrimp
425 Posts
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Zariel
Australia1285 Posts
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![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/images/8/84/Bonjwa2.png)
