EPT[Interview] KTF Coach Jung Soo Yeong - Page 9
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Whatson
United States5357 Posts
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Falling
Canada11413 Posts
But this I 100% agree with You cannot artificially create an E-sports scene. Even with the FPS leagues, if KeSPA had carefully considered and incorporated the public's reception into the equation, embracing the fans' voice, they would not be in the predicament that they find themselves in right now. I believe a bottom-up approach with a governing body that merely organizes and facilitates the fans' natural penchants is the only way to expand E-sports further. KESPA really is trying a top down approach and that makes no sense to me. The popularity isn't there in Korea, but we're going to educate people to enjoy something. Whereas the inclusion of LoL in the OGN makes much more sense to me. Leave aside he SC2 vs LoL argument for a bit because the player base is there to support a league rather than telling LoL fans to wait, that eventually the game will become awesome sometime down the road. They don't need to give the game time, they're already playing it. | ||
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OptimusYale
Korea (South)1005 Posts
I don't know but this just sits wrong with me....It's the embodiment of why bw is phasing out. SK kept BW closed to them, they made it increasingly difficult to get a foreign players which would have helped make BW much more successful in the west, ultimately meaning that foreigners would have ditched sc2 and stuck with bw. Weren't there VERY few foreign entities running BW tournaments? | ||
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blubbdavid
Switzerland2412 Posts
Courage Tourny? Almost every guy, korean or not, would have needed to gone throught that one. Invites? Idra. | ||
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Ribbon
United States5278 Posts
On May 30 2012 08:59 Falling wrote: I think I'm going to leave aside whether or not the games are fun to watch. But this I 100% agree with KESPA really is trying a top down approach and that makes no sense to me. The popularity isn't there in Korea, but we're going to educate people to enjoy something. Whereas the inclusion of LoL in the OGN makes much more sense to me. Leave aside he SC2 vs LoL argument for a bit because the player base is there to support a league rather than telling LoL fans to wait, that eventually the game will become awesome sometime down the road. They don't need to give the game time, they're already playing it. Well, if the BW teams switched to LoL, I imagine there'd be a lot of waiting for them to get good at LoL. Even SC2, a game much more similar to BW than LoL, has had a lot of.....bad....games in Proleague (even as a fan of SC2, I thought they've mainly ranged from boring to outright comical). | ||
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vOdToasT
Sweden2870 Posts
On May 29 2012 04:48 nadafanboy42 wrote: I have all respect for his expertise, but when anybody says "SC2 just isn't fun to watch" I just can't take them serious. Top SC2 events regularly draw in over 100,000+ concurrent viewers. Are these people implying that those viewers all just sadomasochists? It's fine to argue that Broodwar is more fun to watch than SC2, I'd even agree. But the constant argument of Broodwar elitist that "SC2 just isn't fun to watch" is just stuck up bullshit in the light of the hundreds of thousands of fans who do think SC2 is fun enough to not only watch, but pay money for the privilige of watching. SC2 is fun to watch if you are not used to SC1. If you are used to SC1, it is boring, because SC1 is more fun to watch. (and play). I only reached B rank in BW, but it was enough to make me realize how much more there is to BW than SC2 and how much more beautiful it is, even though I became much better at SC2 than I ever was at SC1 (GM, reached rank 2 on EU, and won some small online cash prized cups over pro gamers, foreigner and korean) | ||
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SgtCoDFish
United Kingdom1520 Posts
But I couldn't disagree more with this: For BW, you could know jack about the game but still enjoy it because there was a ubiquitous element of fun throughout the game. In the case of SC2, people who aren't familiar with the game can't follow the games. and I feel that this is actually quite an ill-thought out remark to make, and that he's flat out wrong. He's in a terrible position to make a call like that. He's known BW deeply for years and been intricately involved with it for that same time frame; he doesn't know what the average guy feels or knows when he first tunes into either game now, because he was there while the very first games of pro-starcraft were being broadcast. He "grew up" with esports, and it's different now that it's established. He basically says BW has a magical fun to it, and SC2 doesn't. No, what BW has to it (for him) is nostalgia. That's what BW has been to him, and is still - nostalgic, and something he loves and has loved. (I feel nostalgia describes a lot of negativity in the gaming scene in general:"The new Pokémon SUCK!" - "Why?" - "Because they're new!") I grew up not really knowing anything about esports or pro gaming (which is a shame, I'd have loved to). I'd heard of StarCraft before I got into SC2, but never played, watched, or known anything much about it. I watched quite a bit of SC2 during SC2's beta phase when a friend introduced me. Do you know what I felt when I watched BW for the first time, bearing in mind I had a pretty good knowledge of a very similar game (SC2) to get me started? "I have no fucking clue what's going on." Do you know what I continued to feel? The exact same. Until I put in the time to research what the units were and did, I had no idea what was going on. RTS is kinda like that. On some level I had comprehension of it (aided by my SC2 knowledge) - "OK, he has a lot of Zerg units, the other guy has a scary looking but smaller Protoss army; will the numbers prevail or will the smaller army with more strength prevail?" - and I think on a basic level, anyone watching can understand this, but you can't enjoy either game without knowledge beyond this basic thing, and even then it doesn't make much sense - i.e. "ok, he got a lot of units and won. Why didn't the other guy get a lot of units too?" isn't easy to understand if you don't understand the mechanics. People go on about "appreciating esports without knowing anything about it" but I think that's horseshit for all of them. I don't think you can really enjoy a pro game of BW or SC2 without knowing something about it. It's the same for LoL/DotA (ok, they have 2 teams, dunno what they can do or why they're doing what they're doing), FPS games (why isn't that Quake guy just running up and blasting the other guy? And why's he not going to pick up the big gun?) All of these games can be watched on a basic level (on different levels), but the kind of enjoyment fans who watch regularly get can only be appreciated with an understanding. This is true in "real" sports. I understand that hitting the puck into the net in Hockey is a good thing, but I know nothing much more than that. In football/soccer, however, I understand the basics and more, and thus can derive fun from watching the strategic maneuvers and personal displays of skill. In BW without knowledge, I can appreciate "a goal". In BW with knowledge, I can appreciate the build up to the goal, involving passing play and technical skill to make it happe. Same for SC2, same for all esports. So yeah, that comment annoyed me a bit. This was kinda longer than I intended... As for the rest of the article, it's always interesting to read stuff like this  | ||
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wassbix
Canada499 Posts
On May 30 2012 09:04 OptimusYale wrote: o those who criticize BW for being closed off to South Korea: did we get to where we are through entering foreign tournaments? No, it was the other way around: we inspired foreign entities to hold tournaments through displaying our passion. I don't know but this just sits wrong with me....It's the embodiment of why bw is phasing out. SK kept BW closed to them, they made it increasingly difficult to get a foreign players which would have helped make BW much more successful in the west, ultimately meaning that foreigners would have ditched sc2 and stuck with bw. Weren't there VERY few foreign entities running BW tournaments? SK didnt keep foreigners out of BW, they flew in foreigners when they were competitive and at the start most of them were better than the best of Korea. Don't blame Korean BW or Kespa that foreigners sucked. No one wants to watch some foreigner roll over and die in the most boring manner (Go watch some WCG vods if you want to see some example). | ||
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Xiphos
Canada7507 Posts
On May 30 2012 10:31 wassbix wrote: SK didnt keep foreigners out of BW, they flew in foreigners when they were competitive and at the start most of them were better than the best of Korea. Don't blame Korean BW or Kespa that foreigners sucked. No one wants to watch some foreigner roll over and die in the most boring manner (Go watch some WCG vods if you want to see some example). Foreigner just couldn't keep up with the Korean counterpart. And only recently in SC2, a few players have set role models of being assiduous, like Naniwa. I heard rumors that Stephano doesn't actually practice that much? | ||
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atenthirtyone
United States88 Posts
On May 30 2012 09:25 Ribbon wrote: Well, if the BW teams switched to LoL, I imagine there'd be a lot of waiting for them to get good at LoL. Even SC2, a game much more similar to BW than LoL, has had a lot of.....bad....games in Proleague (even as a fan of SC2, I thought they've mainly ranged from boring to outright comical). If the BW teams switched to League, then most of the players on each team would exist. League is a team game, and you won't need more than 2 teams (If not just keeping one). Team work within a game hasn't existed in Brood War since 2v2 was removed. | ||
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Sawamura
Malaysia7602 Posts
On May 30 2012 09:59 SgtCoDFish wrote: I can totally appreciate that he doesn't like watching SC2, that's his opinion. I differ in opinion to the furthest possible degree (I watch fucktonnes of SC2 and enjoy it). But I couldn't disagree more with this: and I feel that this is actually quite an ill-thought out remark to make, and that he's flat out wrong. He's in a terrible position to make a call like that. He's known BW deeply for years and been intricately involved with it for that same time frame; he doesn't know what the average guy feels or knows when he first tunes into either game now, because he was there while the very first games of pro-starcraft were being broadcast. He "grew up" with esports, and it's different now that it's established. He basically says BW has a magical fun to it, and SC2 doesn't. No, what BW has to it (for him) is nostalgia. That's what BW has been to him, and is still - nostalgic, and something he loves and has loved. (I feel nostalgia describes a lot of negativity in the gaming scene in general:"The new Pokémon SUCK!" - "Why?" - "Because they're new!") I grew up not really knowing anything about esports or pro gaming (which is a shame, I'd have loved to). I'd heard of StarCraft before I got into SC2, but never played, watched, or known anything much about it. I watched quite a bit of SC2 during SC2's beta phase when a friend introduced me. Do you know what I felt when I watched BW for the first time, bearing in mind I had a pretty good knowledge of a very similar game (SC2) to get me started? "I have no fucking clue what's going on." Do you know what I continued to feel? The exact same. Until I put in the time to research what the units were and did, I had no idea what was going on. RTS is kinda like that. On some level I had comprehension of it (aided by my SC2 knowledge) - "OK, he has a lot of Zerg units, the other guy has a scary looking but smaller Protoss army; will the numbers prevail or will the smaller army with more strength prevail?" - and I think on a basic level, anyone watching can understand this, but you can't enjoy either game without knowledge beyond this basic thing, and even then it doesn't make much sense - i.e. "ok, he got a lot of units and won. Why didn't the other guy get a lot of units too?" isn't easy to understand if you don't understand the mechanics. People go on about "appreciating esports without knowing anything about it" but I think that's horseshit for all of them. I don't think you can really enjoy a pro game of BW or SC2 without knowing something about it. It's the same for LoL/DotA (ok, they have 2 teams, dunno what they can do or why they're doing what they're doing), FPS games (why isn't that Quake guy just running up and blasting the other guy? And why's he not going to pick up the big gun?) All of these games can be watched on a basic level (on different levels), but the kind of enjoyment fans who watch regularly get can only be appreciated with an understanding. This is true in "real" sports. I understand that hitting the puck into the net in Hockey is a good thing, but I know nothing much more than that. In football/soccer, however, I understand the basics and more, and thus can derive fun from watching the strategic maneuvers and personal displays of skill. In BW without knowledge, I can appreciate "a goal". In BW with knowledge, I can appreciate the build up to the goal, involving passing play and technical skill to make it happe. Same for SC2, same for all esports. So yeah, that comment annoyed me a bit. This was kinda longer than I intended... As for the rest of the article, it's always interesting to read stuff like this People go on about "appreciating esports without knowing anything about it" but I think that's horseshit for all of them. I don't think you can really enjoy a pro game of BW or SC2 without knowing something about it. It's the same for LoL/DotA (ok, they have 2 teams, dunno what they can do or why they're doing what they're doing), FPS games (why isn't that Quake guy just running up and blasting the other guy? And why's he not going to pick up the big gun?) Ahhh quake most people think it's just a run and gun game without any skill management and most people who thought that are wrong you have to have mental count down for all the items spawning in the arena . The items you control from your opponent will make or break you . Why would you go for a big gun in quake ? Rocket launcher and rail guns are your best combo and heck even plasma can be used to demolish your opponent . In my opinion it really depends on the caster skills especially the one who did cast IEM 2011 for quake the guy was really good .I don't know jack shit about quake however until I listen to him casting what the players are doing than I realized that I had the wrong perception of quake and the game actually takes much more skill than just how fast your reflexes . I watch most e-sport games excluding sc2 because the game isn't interesting and most of the battle are really boring and I feel that this is actually quite an ill-thought out remark to make, and that he's flat out wrong. He's in a terrible position to make a call like that. He's known BW deeply for years and been intricately involved with it for that same time frame; he doesn't know what the average guy feels or knows when he first tunes into either game now, because he was there while the very first games of pro-starcraft were being broadcast. He "grew up" with esports, and it's different now that it's established. He basically says BW has a magical fun to it, and SC2 doesn't. No, what BW has to it (for him) is nostalgia. That's what BW has been to him, and is still - nostalgic, and something he loves and has loved. (I feel nostalgia describes a lot of negativity in the gaming scene in general:"The new Pokémon SUCK!" - "Why?" - "Because they're new!") No bro, bringing up the nostalgic card does not make your argument any better. He stated the truth here because of the simple basis of action of screen and not just because he "grew up with bw . He is a freaking coach and you think he just grew up with bw ? He spend most of his time watching bw for fun and most of the time managing the players . I would have agree with you if he was one of those pro gamers who grew up with bw but he isn't . The lack of unit micro in sc2 such as muta and whole lots of other units doesn't make the game any more interesting . Half of the time I will be watching sc2 I will be in dream land thinking of sexy korean girls and than wake up in the middle of game to find out the game is over . I mean what the hell what's wrong with the game . I open and broodwar games even if it's a bad one I could get excited over it . Also I didn't know about broodwar until I watch klazart who educated me the ways of the broodwar and his high WPM for every action on the screen was just so amazing . It doesn't take whole lot of introduction to understand an esport game if the commentator is willing to explain what's happening on screen what the players are doing than everything is set to go smoothly and lots of newcomer to the game will enjoy the game . | ||
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ShadeR
Australia7535 Posts
On May 30 2012 09:59 SgtCoDFish wrote: + Show Spoiler + I can totally appreciate that he doesn't like watching SC2, that's his opinion. I differ in opinion to the furthest possible degree (I watch fucktonnes of SC2 and enjoy it). But I couldn't disagree more with this: For BW, you could know jack about the game but still enjoy it because there was a ubiquitous element of fun throughout the game. In the case of SC2, people who aren't familiar with the game can't follow the games. and I feel that this is actually quite an ill-thought out remark to make, and that he's flat out wrong. He's in a terrible position to make a call like that. He's known BW deeply for years and been intricately involved with it for that same time frame; he doesn't know what the average guy feels or knows when he first tunes into either game now, because he was there while the very first games of pro-starcraft were being broadcast. He "grew up" with esports, and it's different now that it's established. He basically says BW has a magical fun to it, and SC2 doesn't. No, what BW has to it (for him) is nostalgia. That's what BW has been to him, and is still - nostalgic, and something he loves and has loved. (I feel nostalgia describes a lot of negativity in the gaming scene in general:"The new Pokémon SUCK!" - "Why?" - "Because they're new!") I grew up not really knowing anything about esports or pro gaming (which is a shame, I'd have loved to). I'd heard of StarCraft before I got into SC2, but never played, watched, or known anything much about it. I watched quite a bit of SC2 during SC2's beta phase when a friend introduced me. Do you know what I felt when I watched BW for the first time, bearing in mind I had a pretty good knowledge of a very similar game (SC2) to get me started? "I have no fucking clue what's going on." Do you know what I continued to feel? The exact same. Until I put in the time to research what the units were and did, I had no idea what was going on. RTS is kinda like that. On some level I had comprehension of it (aided by my SC2 knowledge) - "OK, he has a lot of Zerg units, the other guy has a scary looking but smaller Protoss army; will the numbers prevail or will the smaller army with more strength prevail?" - and I think on a basic level, anyone watching can understand this, but you can't enjoy either game without knowledge beyond this basic thing, and even then it doesn't make much sense - i.e. "ok, he got a lot of units and won. Why didn't the other guy get a lot of units too?" isn't easy to understand if you don't understand the mechanics. People go on about "appreciating esports without knowing anything about it" but I think that's horseshit for all of them. I don't think you can really enjoy a pro game of BW or SC2 without knowing something about it. It's the same for LoL/DotA (ok, they have 2 teams, dunno what they can do or why they're doing what they're doing), FPS games (why isn't that Quake guy just running up and blasting the other guy? And why's he not going to pick up the big gun?) All of these games can be watched on a basic level (on different levels), but the kind of enjoyment fans who watch regularly get can only be appreciated with an understanding. This is true in "real" sports. I understand that hitting the puck into the net in Hockey is a good thing, but I know nothing much more than that. In football/soccer, however, I understand the basics and more, and thus can derive fun from watching the strategic maneuvers and personal displays of skill. In BW without knowledge, I can appreciate "a goal". In BW with knowledge, I can appreciate the build up to the goal, involving passing play and technical skill to make it happe. Same for SC2, same for all esports. So yeah, that comment annoyed me a bit. This was kinda longer than I intended... As for the rest of the article, it's always interesting to read stuff like this On May 29 2012 23:54 ShadeR wrote: Disagree. When i first watched proBW in 2009 i had no idea what dragoons reavers and ultralisks were but it didn't matter because it is clear what is going on. Later on when i slowly learn't a bit more i began to appreciate other aspects like mechanics. This isn't the case with SC2. I know starcraft and SC2 makes me go "what the shit?" too often. Your points about UI and such make SC2 easier to play as opposed to easier to spectate. The viewer demographic for BW is incredibly wide 3y olds - 70y olds. For SC2? 14y olds to <30's gamer nerds. BW is more casual friendly. Anecdotes are good and all but you need some empirical evidence to back up your claims. | ||
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jpak
United States5045 Posts
I think a lot of arguments arise because BW fans and SC2 fans have very different visions for "E-sports" and friction occurs. I, personally, wanted a game to rise up and truly transcend the boundaries of a "game" and have it be a sport. What do you want to see out of all this? | ||
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OopsOopsBaby
Singapore3425 Posts
On May 30 2012 09:04 OptimusYale wrote: o those who criticize BW for being closed off to South Korea: did we get to where we are through entering foreign tournaments? No, it was the other way around: we inspired foreign entities to hold tournaments through displaying our passion. I don't know but this just sits wrong with me....It's the embodiment of why bw is phasing out. SK kept BW closed to them, they made it increasingly difficult to get a foreign players which would have helped make BW much more successful in the west, ultimately meaning that foreigners would have ditched sc2 and stuck with bw. Weren't there VERY few foreign entities running BW tournaments? korea did not keep bw closed to them. even if they did, it has nothing to do with foreign organisations not running more bw tournaments. | ||
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wassbix
Canada499 Posts
On May 30 2012 11:15 jpak wrote: I think the coach shares what I feel about E-sports. He wanted it to become an actual "sport" enjoyed by people of all ages, not just gamers. I think he is sad that such a sport like BW is being replaced by just a competitive game in SCToo. I think a lot of arguments arise because BW fans and SC2 fans have very different visions for "E-sports" and friction occurs. I, personally, wanted a game to rise up and truly transcend the boundaries of a "game" and have it be a sport. What do you want to see out of all this? With BW being replaced I'm pretty disillusioned about such things being possible anymore | ||
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Veldril
Thailand1817 Posts
On May 30 2012 11:34 wassbix wrote: With BW being replaced I'm pretty disillusioned about such things being possible anymore Maybe, maybe not. Let's see how foreign scene will be in the future before we can really judge that. But the foreign seems very healthy. We have televised match of SC2 in Taiwan. Barcraft seems to grow steadily with and there's even a bar for gamer opened in Paris. Maybe it's time that the Starcraft Scene shift from Korea to other part and Korea becomes where players are grown like other sports. | ||
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SgtCoDFish
United Kingdom1520 Posts
On May 30 2012 10:47 Sawamura wrote: Ahhh quake most people think it's just a run and gun game without any skill management and most people who thought that are wrong you have to have mental count down for all the items spawning in the arena . The items you control from your opponent will make or break you . Why would you go for a big gun in quake ? Rocket launcher and rail guns are your best combo and heck even plasma can be used to demolish your opponent . In my opinion it really depends on the caster skills especially the one who did cast IEM 2011 for quake the guy was really good .I don't know jack shit about quake however until I listen to him casting what the players are doing than I realized that I had the wrong perception of quake and the game actually takes much more skill than just how fast your reflexes . Are you trying to educate me? I know all that :S I was saying that those questions are the kind people might have upon first viewing. I agree Quake is awesome, I like Quake and enjoyed it a year or so ago when it'd be on at IEMs while I was waiting to watch the SC2. I watch most e-sport games excluding sc2 because the game isn't interesting and most of the battle are really boring So much opinion. That's fine - I don't care if people don't have the same opinion as me - but it's not really relevant to anything I said, and smacks of you just taking any shot you can at SC2. No bro, bringing up the nostalgic card does not make your argument any better. He stated the truth here because of the simple basis of action of screen and not just because he "grew up with bw . He is a freaking coach and you think he just grew up with bw ? He spend most of his time watching bw for fun and most of the time managing the players . I would have agree with you if he was one of those pro gamers who grew up with bw but he isn't . He actually is nostalgic though, "bro", and you making out like I don't appreciate how much he's done with BW in his life doesn't make your argument any better either. He put a huge amount of his life into the game, of course he's nostalgic as it (sadly) starts to fade. I'm not trying to belittle him or what he did or say he's entirely motivated by nostalgia; I'm saying he's not the best judge of what it's like as a new player/viewer tuning in for the first time, partially because of how different BW is now to how it was, partially because he got into it in a scene that no longer exists. He got into a good game that had a scene start to develop around it. Now people are getting into a game that is well established. He got into it in what is essentially a completely different era. But hell, if you don't like that point, OK; the rest of my points stand. You're going on about all this "action on screen" stuff. You got excited your first few times watching, as you said, by Klazart talking quick and making it exciting for you. He did a great job. You didn't appreciate BW like you do now. I can watch a game of American Football and the commentators can go fucking wild and make me get into it and want to learn more, but I still don't have the first clue what all the stopping and starting is all about or what's going on in general. Even with prior SC2 knowledge to prepare me, what was happening wasn't obvious at all short of "big army vs. big army, sweet, who's gonna win?" or "lots of small armies fighting other small armies, I wonder which ones will win?". If I showed my mum a game of BW she'd have absolutely no clue what was going on at all. I'd argue BW and SC2 are pretty similar in "first viewing understanding". My main point throughout the entire post was essentially that I disagree with what he said: that BW has some magical aura that makes games magically exciting, which is pretty much what he was suggesting. You might get drawn in by a good commentator (great, they're doing their job) and learn more and appreciate more. I didn't get drawn in by a good commentator ('cause they were speaking Korean when I first watched and I know like 3 words), but I put in the time and can now appreciate good play in BW like I can in SC2. The lack of unit micro in sc2 such as muta and whole lots of other units doesn't make the game any more interesting . Half of the time I will be watching sc2 I will be in dream land thinking of sexy korean girls and than wake up in the middle of game to find out the game is over . I mean what the hell what's wrong with the game . I open and broodwar games even if it's a bad one I could get excited over it . So you don't like the game and prefer BW. Great. Just because you can't concentrate on it, doesn't mean the game's awful. Clearly the thousands of people who watch SC2 regularly are all too busy having wet dreams to actually be watching :S Again, not massively relevant to what I was saying about first times watching. Having browsed the BW forums a reasonable amount, I know you're one of the BW people that actively expresses intense dislike for SC2, and I honestly couldn't care less if I tried: I wasn't trying to compare the games or start a flame war, because any discussion about the games boils down to a circle of idiocy and falsehoods from both sides where no-one wins. | ||
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empty.bottle
685 Posts
In my experience it is not the only game that has that appeal to me, I've never played 1.6 but I watched a lot of it. | ||
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Sawamura
Malaysia7602 Posts
On May 30 2012 11:43 SgtCoDFish wrote: Are you trying to educate me? I know all that :S I was saying that those questions are the kind people might have upon first viewing. I agree Quake is awesome, I like Quake and enjoyed it a year or so ago when it'd be on at IEMs while I was waiting to watch the SC2. So much opinion. That's fine - I don't care if people don't have the same opinion as me - but it's not really relevant to anything I said, and smacks of you just taking any shot you can at SC2. He actually is nostalgic though, "bro", and you making out like I don't appreciate how much he's done with BW in his life doesn't make your argument any better either. He put a huge amount of his life into the game, of course he's nostalgic as it (sadly) starts to fade. I'm not trying to belittle him or what he did or say he's entirely motivated by nostalgia; I'm saying he's not the best judge of what it's like as a new player/viewer tuning in for the first time, partially because of how different BW is now to how it was, partially because he got into it in a scene that no longer exists. He got into a good game that had a scene start to develop around it. Now people are getting into a game that is well established. He got into it in what is essentially a completely different era. But hell, if you don't like that point, OK; the rest of my points stand. You're going on about all this "action on screen" stuff. You got excited your first few times watching, as you said, by Klazart talking quick and making it exciting for you. He did a great job. You didn't appreciate BW like you do now. I can watch a game of American Football and the commentators can go fucking wild and make me get into it and want to learn more, but I still don't have the first clue what all the stopping and starting is all about or what's going on in general. Even with prior SC2 knowledge to prepare me, what was happening wasn't obvious at all short of "big army vs. big army, sweet, who's gonna win?" or "lots of small armies fighting other small armies, I wonder which ones will win?". If I showed my mum a game of BW she'd have absolutely no clue what was going on at all. I'd argue BW and SC2 are pretty similar in "first viewing understanding". My main point throughout the entire post was essentially that I disagree with what he said: that BW has some magical aura that makes games magically exciting, which is pretty much what he was suggesting. You might get drawn in by a good commentator (great, they're doing their job) and learn more and appreciate more. I didn't get drawn in by a good commentator ('cause they were speaking Korean when I first watched and I know like 3 words), but I put in the time and can now appreciate good play in BW like I can in SC2. So you don't like the game and prefer BW. Great. Just because you can't concentrate on it, doesn't mean the game's awful. Clearly the thousands of people who watch SC2 regularly are all too busy having wet dreams to actually be watching :S Again, not massively relevant to what I was saying about first times watching. Having browsed the BW forums a reasonable amount, I know you're one of the BW people that actively expresses intense dislike for SC2, and I honestly couldn't care less if I tried: I wasn't trying to compare the games or start a flame war, because any discussion about the games boils down to a circle of idiocy and falsehoods from both sides where no-one wins. Yeah just because he is a coach who lead a professional gaming team in bw he has to be nostalgic about it huh ? Anyway you type a lot but in the end the point is you tried to talk shit about him just because he seems to have a point of view that your "favourite sc2" isn't that interesting from his perspective . Bringing in examples like how people don't like the new pokemon and such that doesn't apply to the person of this calibre . Let's put it this way I started playing broodwar at the year 2008 although I did play the campaign as a kid at 14 years old .Am I being nostalgic about the game or am I just taking the game as it is right now ? There is no nostalgia at work here broodwar units are much more interesting even right now compared to sc2 and if you can't accept that that's your problem . Nope your point doesn't stand just because a person who manage a team of players of broodwar pro gamers has to be nostalgic about it . Unless you are able to talk to the coach and tell him straight to the face that he is being all "nostalgic and wearing tinted glasses" and he says yeah I fucking agree with you .Until than you can keep spewing about all this talk about him being nostalgic but in the end he just simply doesn't agree that sc2 is a better spectator game . My main point throughout the entire post was essentially that I disagree with what he said: that BW has some magical aura that makes games magically exciting, which is pretty much what he was suggesting. You might get drawn in by a good commentator (great, they're doing their job) and learn more and appreciate more. I didn't get drawn in by a good commentator ('cause they were speaking Korean when I first watched and I know like 3 words), but I put in the time and can now appreciate good play in BW like I can in SC2. This is why you fail I was talking about commentators giving brief introduction about the games even players who don't know much about the game will get educated about the game if the commentators are good themselves. You're going on about all this "action on screen" stuff. You got excited your first few times watching, as you said, by Klazart talking quick and making it exciting for you. He did a great job. You didn't appreciate BW like you do now. I can watch a game of American Football and the commentators can go fucking wild and make me get into it and want to learn more, but I still don't have the first clue what all the stopping and starting is all about or what's going on in general. Even with prior SC2 knowledge to prepare me, what was happening wasn't obvious at all short of "big army vs. big army, sweet, who's gonna win?" or "lots of small armies fighting other small armies, I wonder which ones will win?". If I showed my mum a game of BW she'd have absolutely no clue what was going on at all. I didn't get excited at first because this was my first time watching pro broodwar . The level the pro gamer brought to the game which I thought was a dead game really open my eye . No way in 10 years or now I can ever reach their level of play which than only made more interested in to broodwar. Also broodwar was popular enough in korea for house wives to know who is boxer and is sc2 even that big in foreign country that old grandma and grandpa are watching the game ? Are you trying to educate me? I know all that :S I was saying that those questions are the kind people might have upon first viewing. I agree Quake is awesome, I like Quake and enjoyed it a year or so ago when it'd be on at IEMs while I was waiting to watch the SC2. The question most people will be watching quake the first time are what the hell are they doing ? Thanks to commentators like the casters who commented at iem 2011 for quake I actually enjoyed the game more because I realized what the players are doing more instead of just running to each spawn and camp to take out the players . Also I am starting to sound like a Diablo 2 elitist who hates Diablo 3 when I talk about the game being not interesting and probably I am the minority and therefore there can be 1000 of kids watching sc2 and I don't really care about that because the game just doesn't interest in me. | ||
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wassbix
Canada499 Posts
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