EPTInteresting that he'd take Canata over other terrans, even now.
I'd also probably take someone other than Hoejja, but he has his merits.
[Interview] KTF Coach Jung Soo Yeong - Page 11
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Zona
40426 Posts
Interesting that he'd take Canata over other terrans, even now. I'd also probably take someone other than Hoejja, but he has his merits. | ||
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Marou
Germany1371 Posts
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Vul
United States685 Posts
On May 30 2012 20:16 Wertheron wrote: It makes two years that i come here on TL. It's my first post and i'm not really good in english. But i really think that... ...This thread should be closed.... I always liked SCBW, but after reading all the BW fans post who insult SC2 all the time... I begin to hate BW: it's not good for the SC community to start hating each other. If BW fans don't want to play/watch SC2: okay, but it's not a reason to offend our passion by troll SC2 fans all the time (here or in the SPL threads). Please stop it. I agree, I respect coach Jung's contribution to the BW scene, but clearly his opinion about SC2 is biased. The tone of this interview is bitter, and so is the discussion in this thread. The same people who said that Flash and Jaedong would never play SC2 are here to tell us that the game is inferior, that it's a bubble market, etc. I'll buy one of those arguments once those dudes are right about something and not just talking out of frustration. | ||
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FATJESUSONABIKE
184 Posts
On May 30 2012 23:30 Vul wrote: I agree, I respect coach Jung's contribution to the BW scene, but clearly his opinion about SC2 is biased. The tone of this interview is bitter, and so is the discussion in this thread. The same people who said that Flash and Jaedong would never play SC2 are here to tell us that the game is inferior, that it's a bubble market, etc. I'll buy one of those arguments once those dudes are right about something and not just talking out of frustration. I somehow, regarding my previous post, feel targetted by this comment. Just to disprove some of what of you guys might think: People saying BW is a harder and better game are not necessarily pure BW fans. I actually started playing RTS'es with War2 and 3 and, even though I played Brood War a long time ago, it was nothing serious, I just knew the scene a little bit but never followed it too much. I actually came back to playing BW in all neutrality because... SC2 made me want to try it again. And I couldn't help but realize how right all of the 'BW groupies' usually are when they argue that the game is miles more interesting. Now I couldn't be less biased, really. And I'd argue that SC2 fans who defend their own scene (which I understand) should try BW out before they're entitled to a valid opinion, cause let's face it, most of them don't know anything about Starcraft 1, and it's a fact of which the opposite is mostly untrue (I indeed know very few BW players who talk about SC2 w/o having played it). Now all of this remains my opinion, I just felt like saying that, having played all of these games equally (BW less than the others, actually) and with no bias involved, I still would choose BW over SC2 ^_^ | ||
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0neder
United States3733 Posts
Just because what he thinks is unpleasant and we don't want it to be true, doesn't necessarily mean that it isn't true and just the bitterness of an old man. For the record, most BW die hards want SC2 to be amazing. It's good, but not amazing...yet. So comments explaining that are rarely hateful or stubborn, but rather constructive criticism from those that want to see the game improve. Do you think Jung Soo Yeong wants SC2 to fail because it's not as good? Don't be silly. He's clearly passionate about e-sports succeeding. He is just describing how he sees the situation. | ||
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captainshards
39 Posts
On the subject of SC2 being less fun to watch than BW, its ridiculous to argue, because no one will ever change their mind. There are hundreds of easy ways to convince yourself one or the other is true before youd have to actually do any thinking instead of purely feeling your preference. But, a minor rant here, ive noticed so much use of the whole "objective/subjective" argument to validate ANYTHING and ANY opinion online. It seems as if people learn the definitions of those words and run rampant trying to teach the world a lesson in logic. But what never gets said is that sometimes when you use a theory or a concept, its totally great until you realize that life and reality isnt always summed up by theory and concept. There are realities. You can say al day long that there is no right and wrong its all opinion but we are trying to live in a society that functions. A "tool". And a tool can be judged at how good of a tool it is and objectivity/subjectivity loses some of its shine in these types of discussions. You and i both can argue which hammer is better but in the end there is a chance one hammer will break while the other does not. Therefore that is a better hammer. A better tool. Why? Because it does a better job of putting nails in. It doesnt matter opinion, either the nail goes in or does not. One could argue that the elements of BW just happen to have more tendency to create the types of situations that lead to surprise or tension in the average human beings mind. Therefore it is a better tool for that job. If you have two calculators and one gives you back a wrong answer every random 20 calculations that is a worse tool and it doesnt matter what your opinion is because that particular tool is designed to calculate accurately. This is not a point im making to argue for or against BW vs SC2 because i personally dont care anymore which one is better. Nor do i know in the end which game will be "better". Im not even remotely qualified to predict the future of this game. I hoe for it to be better because i like RTS games and i like high level play. I just get tired of "objective/subjective" arguments that are treated as the end all of logic because they arent. A tool can be judged. Arguing which game is better and feeling satisfied that there is no answer is worse for the game than questioning what actually might be better in either one and trying to reach for that goal to make SC2 the best tool it can possibly be to entertain human beings. If you cite subjectivity etc and call it a day you never move beyond that and you never really solve any problems that may exist. The only thing you do that way is feel better about your own opinion. | ||
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RaiKageRyu
Canada4773 Posts
Also, this ex-coach's statements reinforce some sentiments that Koreans view BW and E-Sports as synonymous with each other and are ignorant of the history and scene outside of Korea. Korea will lose its position as the mecca of E-Sports if they continue to fight with each other like the sick men of East Asia and continue with a too conservative approach to pick up games that aren't Korean made. (The season of Hybrid Proleague came as result of this reluctance and indecisiveness) Korea says it wants to be the beacon of E-Sports but it seems obvious people like this coach and Kespa want to stay stuck in the past and have no clear vision of the future of E-Sports itself. | ||
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Ruscour
5233 Posts
On May 31 2012 13:00 RaiKageRyu wrote: This interview once again shows that very few Koreans understand what an E-Sport actually is. He talks about the root of this and that but fails to realize E-Sports is inescapably tied to the technology it runs on. As technogly advances, the games need to keep up with current times to stay relevant. BW was always fated to fade away in time. League of Legends is looking to take its place and it too will face the same fate someday. SC2 did not kill BW, it gave Starcraft as a whole, a chance to pass down its legacy. Also, this ex-coach's statements reinforce some sentiments that Koreans view BW and E-Sports as synonymous with each other and are ignorant of the history and scene outside of Korea. Korea will lose its position as the mecca of E-Sports if they continue to fight with each other like the sick men of East Asia and continue with a too conservative approach to pick up games that aren't Korean made. (The season of Hybrid Proleague came as result of this reluctance and indecisiveness) Korea says it wants to be the beacon of E-Sports but it seems obvious people like this coach and Kespa want to stay stuck in the past and have no clear vision of the future of E-Sports itself. This is pretty much my opinion in a nutshell. I respect what he has to say, but the nostalgia goggles are set to maximum. | ||
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Scarecrow
Korea (South)9172 Posts
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ppdealer
Canada163 Posts
On May 30 2012 23:30 Vul wrote: I agree, I respect coach Jung's contribution to the BW scene, but clearly his opinion about SC2 is biased. The tone of this interview is bitter, and so is the discussion in this thread. God forbid people to actually have an opinion and be unhappy! And where did you get the part about him _hating_ SC2? SC2 _is_ inferior to BW in many ways, and better in others. BW fans focus on the negative aspects for good reasons, but none of them would actually bother if they didn't care about StarCraft in the first place. On May 30 2012 23:30 Vul wrote: ... The same people who said that Flash and Jaedong would never play SC2 are here to tell us that the game is inferior, that it's a bubble market, etc. I'll buy one of those arguments once those dudes are right about something and not just talking out of frustration. Get over yourself. No one's really arguing about anything. You're the one that's bitter in this thread. | ||
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Rodiel3
France1158 Posts
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empty.bottle
685 Posts
On May 31 2012 02:04 FATJESUSONABIKE wrote: I somehow, regarding my previous post, feel targetted by this comment. Just to disprove some of what of you guys might think: People saying BW is a harder and better game are not necessarily pure BW fans. I actually started playing RTS'es with War2 and 3 and, even though I played Brood War a long time ago, it was nothing serious, I just knew the scene a little bit but never followed it too much. I actually came back to playing BW in all neutrality because... SC2 made me want to try it again. And I couldn't help but realize how right all of the 'BW groupies' usually are when they argue that the game is miles more interesting. Now I couldn't be less biased, really. And I'd argue that SC2 fans who defend their own scene (which I understand) should try BW out before they're entitled to a valid opinion, cause let's face it, most of them don't know anything about Starcraft 1 , and it's a fact of which the opposite is mostly untrue (I indeed know very few BW players who talk about SC2 w/o having played it). Now all of this remains my opinion, I just felt like saying that, having played all of these games equally (BW less than the others, actually) and with no bias involved, I still would choose BW over SC2 ^_^ I used to think War3 was better/harder than BW back in 2004, and I would argue with my friend about this over and over again. I was wrong, I didn't like BW because I didn't have any idea of how the units worked, and because the unit of pathing/graphics. I watched BW for two years ( from time to time) before playing it, when I start to play it I understood a little better how deep and hard the game was. I think that BW was the game who taught me that graphics doesn't matter and that making a game easier is not good. | ||
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FATJESUSONABIKE
184 Posts
On May 31 2012 15:35 empty.bottle wrote: I used to think War3 was better/harder than BW back in 2004, and I would argue with my friend about this over and over again. I was wrong, I didn't like BW because I didn't have any idea of how the units worked, and because the unit of pathing/graphics. I watched BW for two years ( from time to time) before playing it, when I start to play it I understood a little better how deep and hard the game was. I think that BW was the game who taught me that graphics doesn't matter and that making a game easier is not good. :-) I believe the main thing that makes BW fans angry is that BW is in too many ways a 'one time thing' that we won't ever witness again. The game is so wrongly designed (if you look at it from a modern point of view) that it's actually ridiculous, the pathing is horrible, a lot of the units are absurdly bugged (dragoons, reavers... ), the obstacles to balancing the game seemed impossible to overcome... And that's precisely what makes BW's perfect balance so miraculous, it doesn't rely on Blizzard's job but on the bugs themselves (larvaes spawn pos, muta stack etc... ), they were exploited, almost 'created' in a way by the community. What's to note is that this in my opinion boils down to Koreans' frenzy to always try to play the game in a new way as much as to sheer and simple luck... And I'm afraid this gigantic stroke luck won't happen again. The fact that no other RTS game can currently pretend having reached a comparable level of balance and expertise stands as evidence... The most worrying and fitting example would be TFT, which Blizzard has been trying to balance out with their own methods (that they're currently using for SC2) for seven years... They failed, they failed miserably. All of this added to the fact that BW is, without a doubt, the hardest competitive game that's ever existed (again, try it out ;-), and you get millions of very bitter elitist fans whose point of view I can't help but respect and agree with. No matter how much I like SC2 and want SC2 to succeed. | ||
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tbrown47
United States1235 Posts
On May 31 2012 13:00 RaiKageRyu wrote: This interview once again shows that very few Koreans understand what an E-Sport actually is. He talks about the root of this and that but fails to realize E-Sports is inescapably tied to the technology it runs on. As technogly advances, the games need to keep up with current times to stay relevant. BW was always fated to fade away in time. League of Legends is looking to take its place and it too will face the same fate someday. SC2 did not kill BW, it gave Starcraft as a whole, a chance to pass down its legacy. Also, this ex-coach's statements reinforce some sentiments that Koreans view BW and E-Sports as synonymous with each other and are ignorant of the history and scene outside of Korea. Korea will lose its position as the mecca of E-Sports if they continue to fight with each other like the sick men of East Asia and continue with a too conservative approach to pick up games that aren't Korean made. (The season of Hybrid Proleague came as result of this reluctance and indecisiveness) Korea says it wants to be the beacon of E-Sports but it seems obvious people like this coach and Kespa want to stay stuck in the past and have no clear vision of the future of E-Sports itself. Why again are games tied to technology again? In my, and many others, games are getting worse not better. | ||
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ShadeR
Australia7535 Posts
On May 31 2012 21:15 tbrown47 wrote: Why again are games tied to technology again? In my, and many others, games are getting worse not better. Games are tied to technology but sports are not. They should stop calling it eSports if they think that way, it's just misguided. | ||
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jpak
United States5045 Posts
On May 31 2012 22:39 ShadeR wrote: Games are tied to technology but sports are not. They should stop calling it eSports if they think that way, it's just misguided. Competitive gaming, for those who want to be PC. | ||
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tbrown47
United States1235 Posts
On May 31 2012 22:39 ShadeR wrote: Games are tied to technology but sports are not. They should stop calling it eSports if they think that way, it's just misguided. I mean why do games have to get more graphics as the technology gets better? Obviously video-games are tied to technology. Technology is so insane nowadays we've entered the shittiest time in gaming graphics... the 'realism' era. It is truly a horrible thing. Keep game graphics simple and creative. Things in games no longer 'pop out' because everyone cares about things being realistic. It makes things a mess, honestly. | ||
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Faveokatro
80 Posts
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Sawamura
Malaysia7602 Posts
On May 31 2012 23:54 Faveokatro wrote: It matters if you want to expand past a niche audience and make eSports big in the West. The sense I get from most BW fans is that they don't care. That's fine, but realize that many of us DO care. And that fundamental difference in perspective is why there'll never be peace on these boards. I don't know I don't remember sc2 being an exclusively word as e-sports I thought in general any competitive game is e-sports in definition . Well basing on your point that bw fan's don't give a damn about sc2 you are maybe right . From my own perspective I was one of those guys getting hyped of "Hell it's about time " waited and beg my friends for a beta key to play sc2 . Thought the game was interesting until I realized that everything is shiny and my tanks sucks in sc2 . Played a few more games and most of my friends who played bw was like " okay game is 3d, terran units looks like a toy, this is bad I can't micro my units like I can do in sc2 for example mutas . I totally agree with them and went back to bw and yeah there you have your answer . I actually cared about sc2 since I was a fan of starcraft of bw and I thought I would be able to enjoy this new game as much as sc bw however I am disappointed with it . Any way sc2 has two more expansions to improve the game and until than many of you would have just slap that reasoning of "Give it more time " to my face even though .I have already not like the game and I will concede and move on because there is nothing much to say about and discuss any more. | ||
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palexhur
Colombia730 Posts
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