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On May 30 2012 09:04 OptimusYale wrote:
I don't know but this just sits wrong with me....It's the embodiment of why bw is phasing out. SK kept BW closed to them, they made it increasingly difficult to get a foreign players which would have helped make BW much more successful in the west, ultimately meaning that foreigners would have ditched sc2 and stuck with bw. Weren't there VERY few foreign entities running BW tournaments?
Ever consider the foreigners closing themselves by not playing BW simply because they feel that they could never catch up to the South Koreans?
KeSPA was always open to foreigners playing; they just need to earn the progamer license. It's up to the foreigners whether they could put in as much effort as a draftee practicing BW.
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Wow that was a great interview :D
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On May 30 2012 12:53 sinistral wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2012 09:04 OptimusYale wrote:
I don't know but this just sits wrong with me....It's the embodiment of why bw is phasing out. SK kept BW closed to them, they made it increasingly difficult to get a foreign players which would have helped make BW much more successful in the west, ultimately meaning that foreigners would have ditched sc2 and stuck with bw. Weren't there VERY few foreign entities running BW tournaments? Ever consider the foreigners closing themselves by not playing BW simply because they feel that they could never catch up to the South Koreans? KeSPA was always open to foreigners playing; they just need to earn the progamer license. It's up to the foreigners whether they could put in as much effort as a draftee practicing BW.
Me think the difference it would have made if Draco managed to win that courage tournament.
Or Ret.
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The answer to the last question made me cry. Thanks you so much Jung Soo Yeong.
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I think that his analysis of esports not being able to establish an empire again was a little harsh. Esports is only growing, and I kind of find it shameful that he's so negative.
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On May 30 2012 12:55 Xiphos wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2012 12:53 sinistral wrote:On May 30 2012 09:04 OptimusYale wrote:
I don't know but this just sits wrong with me....It's the embodiment of why bw is phasing out. SK kept BW closed to them, they made it increasingly difficult to get a foreign players which would have helped make BW much more successful in the west, ultimately meaning that foreigners would have ditched sc2 and stuck with bw. Weren't there VERY few foreign entities running BW tournaments? Ever consider the foreigners closing themselves by not playing BW simply because they feel that they could never catch up to the South Koreans? KeSPA was always open to foreigners playing; they just need to earn the progamer license. It's up to the foreigners whether they could put in as much effort as a draftee practicing BW. Me think the difference it would have made if Draco managed to win that courage tournament. Or Ret.
Or Nony who was the closest afaik
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great interview indeed, I do agree with him on some points though, it seemed like a really deep interview coming from him. People really did seem horrible to him around that time, although I wasn't there to witness it. Lastly even as a starcraft 2 player, I agree with him that sometimes starcraft 2 just isn't as fun to watch as brood war, but there's still time to develop. Although I dont think its from the lack of knowledge rather that the game can be just a bit fast, or seems that way.
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On May 30 2012 14:53 Nuclease wrote:
I think that his analysis of esports not being able to establish an empire again was a little harsh. Esports is only growing, and I kind of find it shameful that he's so negative.
ESPORTS will always be a bubble that explodes. over and over again.
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I don't really think it's fair to entirely blame kespa for not trying to gain an international audience. Before SC2 even came out you had people streaming beta gameplay and talking about it on twitter and social sites. A lot of that technology didn't even exist when BW was growing. You can put just as much blame on the international community members themselves. The people who were most involved with the community, the ones with the biggest voices, pretty much all threw BW under the bus once SC2 came out. You might as well accuse the NHL of not trying to get Brazilians to watch hockey.
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Of course he's going to find BW more interesting. He's invested a lot of his life into it and there is already an interest there.
Much like most BW junkies have. Sorry. SC2 is every bit as interesting and as fascinating to watch and I've watched both games as well as WC3.
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On May 30 2012 16:34 Evangelist wrote:
Of course he's going to find BW more interesting. He's invested a lot of his life into it and there is already an interest there.
Much like most BW junkies have. Sorry. SC2 is every bit as interesting and as fascinating to watch and I've watched both games as well as WC3.
Sc bw to sc2 - 2d to 3d
WC3 to Sc2 - 3d to 3d
I can understand why you like it though .
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Yeah he is pretty fond of BW and his memories with it, who can blame him?
But i do not think i would enjoy watching BW without knowing anything, same with WC3 (which i actually watched on tv from time to time) it is just that BW became so popular that it even sparked interest in the absolutely nongamers, who in turn would start playing, or watch it as long friends and familymember do, and i agree with him that this most likely will not happen again in south korea...
SC2 has built his own playerbase, fanbase and tournaments, of course with players and fans coming over from BW as well, but not exclusively, many other RTS players, blizzard fans (from wc3 and wow) etc joined as well, so it is unfair to say this is a forcefully made scene, and as fast as the switch of the BWteams may seem, i doubt they would do it without good reason, i hope it will play out in their best interest, viewer-, money- and playwise.
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On May 30 2012 15:47 rasers wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2012 14:53 Nuclease wrote:
I think that his analysis of esports not being able to establish an empire again was a little harsh. Esports is only growing, and I kind of find it shameful that he's so negative. ESPORTS will always be a bubble that explodes. over and over again.
You said that very beautifully and it certaintly seems to be true at this moment in time. Although i really hope that at one point in the future there will be a bubble that lasts (forever). Probably we will have to wait until the evolution of computers and games slows down drastically for this to happen, who knows?
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On May 30 2012 04:17 Niska wrote:
Great interview, always nice to hear what a old time coach has to say.
I have to say it is interesting to hear what people are saying about the comparison of sc and sc2. Most of it being subjective, including what I am saying. However as time has been going on and more SC pros are trying out SC2 they are saying the opposite what most of you are saying. The macro is easier to control but that does not mean that it is easier. If you have two pros playing each other they both have the same macro advantage vs regular sc. This is a competitive game vs people so your are looking at people's skills as well as mechanics. That being said the micro is harder than SC. And before all you say that it is not lets look at the latest interviews from Jaedong, Bisu, and Flash. They all agree that the micro is harder in SC2. Unless you guys think you have more insight than them I suggest you let your walls down a little and give it a chance.
Its like trying to write a program from scratch. Or building something using only primitive tools. Of course some aspects are going to be harder but your end goal is not going to be as beautiful. Do not be so naive to think that it is easier becaues the tools are more primitive. In SC2 you can be doing things constantly and as the game goes on you can expand and macro much faster than SC so it goes out of control way faster. The pros also say how the game is smoother. This does not mean it is easier either. Both players with have the smoothness advantage. This just means that you can be more accurate,precise, and faster. You can argue that these things can make it harder because we are optimizing peoples reaction time. Perhaps battles seem clumped and ball'd up armies are often seen because it is hard to be efficent.
The games are simliar in some ways but are different in many. In the end it comes down to the strategic mind of the player and the time they sacrifice. I think SC2 has catered to the faster paced decision making that will ultimately lead to a more advanced game.
*Oh the pros stated it ! ! ! ! ! Not like it would be a possibility that KeSPA told them to find something positive to say in order for SC2 to seem interesting to reluctant BW fans.
Truth is your scouting worker alone is harder to micro in BW than a whole late-game Protoss army in SC2. And i'm not exagerating.
*'macro much faster than SC', HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHWHAHWAHHWHAHHWHAWHHAWHAHWHAWHAHHAWHHAWHAW, i'm laughing.
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An excellent article and set of opinions. Enjoyed the insight into looking at players, especially from a historical point of view and with respect to leaving flash and jaedong as obstacles to overcome, as well as talking about what the future holds and how he just doesn't see SC2 having the same spectator magnestism. Jung was a significant coach and member of the esports/kespa community, this made it all the more interesting to read. It is however, a shame that he was credited with such negativity given the lack of a title win.
The actual baseball bat incident still blows my mind, though.
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On May 30 2012 12:50 wassbix wrote:
BW nostalgia argument is the most tiring shit ever, its not nostalgia when the last BW match was less than 24 hours go and the next one in few hours (Fantasy gon win)
Starcraft 2 has potential if Blizzard is willing to listen. HotS will be the make or break point of the game. It has a good following world wide and if they can turn it more into BW it can be the next great RTS. As it is today, the star leagues are there, the teamleagues, Kespa etc is all there. But if it isn't nurtured a lot of people will jump ship. The multiplayer aspect should've been finalized a long time ago. Tweaking and patching just turns more people away because you're manipulating the game instead of leaving it to the players. Fix it and gtfo. You've done your part, Blizzard. BW might be more fun to watch and play, but it's dead as far as I can see. Last Pro League and Starleague are on the horizon. Online play between amateurs is 1/3 of WC3. BW is not an option to SC2s faults.
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On May 30 2012 14:59 Iplaythings wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2012 12:55 Xiphos wrote:On May 30 2012 12:53 sinistral wrote:On May 30 2012 09:04 OptimusYale wrote:
I don't know but this just sits wrong with me....It's the embodiment of why bw is phasing out. SK kept BW closed to them, they made it increasingly difficult to get a foreign players which would have helped make BW much more successful in the west, ultimately meaning that foreigners would have ditched sc2 and stuck with bw. Weren't there VERY few foreign entities running BW tournaments? Ever consider the foreigners closing themselves by not playing BW simply because they feel that they could never catch up to the South Koreans? KeSPA was always open to foreigners playing; they just need to earn the progamer license. It's up to the foreigners whether they could put in as much effort as a draftee practicing BW. Me think the difference it would have made if Draco managed to win that courage tournament. Or Ret. Or Nony who was the closest afaik
Both Assem and Legionarie actually won it, im quite sure. And at least leg had a quite successful stint with several televised PL matches - he even held a reaver kill record for a while.
This interview maks me sad, I was really, really hoping bw would be forever and when it survived the first year of sc2 I even thought it might have a chance. And I cant agree enough with what the coach says about a top down approach to this thing, trying to convince people to like a game enough to watch it just doesnt make sense.
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On May 30 2012 12:55 Xiphos wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2012 12:53 sinistral wrote:On May 30 2012 09:04 OptimusYale wrote:
I don't know but this just sits wrong with me....It's the embodiment of why bw is phasing out. SK kept BW closed to them, they made it increasingly difficult to get a foreign players which would have helped make BW much more successful in the west, ultimately meaning that foreigners would have ditched sc2 and stuck with bw. Weren't there VERY few foreign entities running BW tournaments? Ever consider the foreigners closing themselves by not playing BW simply because they feel that they could never catch up to the South Koreans? KeSPA was always open to foreigners playing; they just need to earn the progamer license. It's up to the foreigners whether they could put in as much effort as a draftee practicing BW. Me think the difference it would have made if Draco managed to win that courage tournament. Or Ret.
Didn't Draco get a license from his team? I heard somewhere that he was gonna be on the Proleague roster for Sparkyz for the next season, but he decided to go back to Poland.
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It makes two years that i come here on TL. It's my first post and i'm not really good in english. But i really think that...
...This thread should be closed.... I always liked SCBW, but after reading all the BW fans post who insult SC2 all the time... I begin to hate BW: it's not good for the SC community to start hating each other. If BW fans don't want to play/watch SC2: okay, but it's not a reason to offend our passion by troll SC2 fans all the time (here or in the SPL threads).
Please stop it.
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On May 30 2012 20:16 Wertheron wrote:
It makes two years that i come here on TL. It's my first post and i'm not really good in english. But i really think that...
...This thread should be closed.... I always liked SCBW, but after reading all the BW fans post who insult SC2 all the time... I begin to hate BW: it's not good for the SC community to start hating each other. If BW fans don't want to play/watch SC2: okay, but it's not a reason to offend our passion by troll SC2 fans all the time (here or in the SPL threads).
Please stop it.
It's not trolling if the feeling is genuine.
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EPT
