EPTAnother reason would be a lot of people internally suppress anger. These people go on to express this anger because otherwise they would become depressed. The reason why these people feel anger is because they look at what they can see, hear, smell, taste, and/or touch and let that dictate the way they think, feel, and act. In other words, these people let their environment dictate their thinking, feelings, and actions. These people tend to live their lives reacting to various situation and they become hostile in times of change away from their paradigm. The Teamliquid community used to be virtually exclusive to Brood War, and when that changed how some individuals conditionally interacted with their environment was breached. I believe some of the Starcraft 2 users are also in a state of reaction, reacting to some of the things the applicable Brood War players are doing.
What's with all the hostility? - Page 25
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tryummm
774 Posts
Another reason would be a lot of people internally suppress anger. These people go on to express this anger because otherwise they would become depressed. The reason why these people feel anger is because they look at what they can see, hear, smell, taste, and/or touch and let that dictate the way they think, feel, and act. In other words, these people let their environment dictate their thinking, feelings, and actions. These people tend to live their lives reacting to various situation and they become hostile in times of change away from their paradigm. The Teamliquid community used to be virtually exclusive to Brood War, and when that changed how some individuals conditionally interacted with their environment was breached. I believe some of the Starcraft 2 users are also in a state of reaction, reacting to some of the things the applicable Brood War players are doing. | ||
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Blasterion
China10272 Posts
It was a nice stay BW folks, Met some pretty cool folks. Much Love Blasterion | ||
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ShadeR
Australia7535 Posts
On July 30 2011 12:18 tryummm wrote: The reason why people in Brood War, in my opinion, feud over Starcraft 2 is because they have a poverty consciousness. They see people playing Starcraft 2 as a decreased availability of players or potential in the advancement of Brood War. Another reason would be a lot of people internally suppress anger. These people go on to express this anger because otherwise they would become depressed. The reason why these people feel anger is because they look at what they can see, hear, smell, taste, and/or touch and let that dictate the way they think, feel, and act. In other words, these people let their environment dictate their thinking, feelings, and actions. These people tend to live their lives reacting to various situation and they become hostile in times of change away from their paradigm. The Teamliquid community used to be virtually exclusive to Brood War, and when that changed how some individuals conditionally interacted with their environment was breached. I believe some of the Starcraft 2 users are also in a state of reaction, reacting to some of the things the applicable Brood War players are doing. Alright then... time for me to have a crack at psychoanalysing the entire SC2 community. Many SC2 fans continue to troll the BW forums because they don't feel validated, This usually stems from a history of paternal neglect during their childhoods and the continual annoyance of the BW forums and desperate need to validate your existence to us is an extension of these daddy issues. You hate that we, the 'old guard' don't hate your new toy but rather are uninterested. After all bad attention is better than no attention at all. It enrages and depresses you at the same time that BW fans don't give s damn about SC2. SC2 fans! I understand your pain! They are a natural result of circumstances! Daddy might not but I'll still love you! | ||
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ffreakk
Singapore2155 Posts
On July 30 2011 04:57 nanaoei wrote: XD........... doesn't PSX refer to playstation one ? that's what i always thought anyway i always called it PSX instead of PS1 to be a hipster that way Yes PSX refers to PS1 usually. What i meant is that those people would be unfamiliar with the SNES generation, aka Final Fantasy 1 to 6. Those people would be less likely to enjoy Final Fantasy 9, compared to older folks like me. Since 9 is pretty much another shot at "traditional" gameplay for Final Fantasy series. Story is important of course, but i do value interesting gameplay  @Blasterion I do read some Visual Novels, though not many. Fate/Stay Night (didnt read Heavenly Feel story due to translation problem) and Tsukihime. | ||
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Blasterion
China10272 Posts
On July 30 2011 13:05 ffreakk wrote: Yes PSX refers to PS1 usually. What i meant is that those people would be unfamiliar with the SNES generation, aka Final Fantasy 1 to 6. Those people would be less likely to enjoy Final Fantasy 9, compared to older folks like me. Since 9 is pretty much another shot at "traditional" gameplay for Final Fantasy series. Story is important of course, but i do value interesting gameplay @Blasterion I do read some Visual Novels, though not many. Fate/Stay Night (didnt read Heavenly Feel story due to translation problem) and Tsukihime. + Show Spoiler + Type-Moon fan huh? they write a lot of good novels. Visual Novels are like... I read a lot of them but only few are memorable. People would probably kill me. for this comparison but, Think of Key Visual Arts as Blizzard. Clannad, Kannon, Air, Little Busters are the pillars of Visual Novel reading pratically, similar how Brood War holds its place in RTS and then Key writes the Starcraft 2 of Visual Novels, namely Rewrite. Kinda make the old Key fans go kinda wtf. The novels are good in its own rights but definitely didn't give the Key feel that the readers wanted to get from it. OMG Derail.... | ||
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pyrogenetix
United Arab Emirates5090 Posts
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tripper688
United States569 Posts
On July 30 2011 12:18 tryummm wrote: The reason why people in Brood War, in my opinion, feud over Starcraft 2 is because they have a poverty consciousness. They see people playing Starcraft 2 as a decreased availability of players or potential in the advancement of Brood War. Another reason would be a lot of people internally suppress anger. These people go on to express this anger because otherwise they would become depressed. The reason why these people feel anger is because they look at what they can see, hear, smell, taste, and/or touch and let that dictate the way they think, feel, and act. In other words, these people let their environment dictate their thinking, feelings, and actions. These people tend to live their lives reacting to various situation and they become hostile in times of change away from their paradigm. The Teamliquid community used to be virtually exclusive to Brood War, and when that changed how some individuals conditionally interacted with their environment was breached. I believe some of the Starcraft 2 users are also in a state of reaction, reacting to some of the things the applicable Brood War players are doing. This is stupid and wrong on so many levels...but here's the biggest one. People for the most part in BW don't feud over SC2. They just flat out ignore it. The antipathy isn't towards SC2, it's towards trolls and idiots that the game has bought in which is encroaching on their BW. Your entire, rather inflammatory, argument revolves around a straw man which basically makes it without merit. On July 30 2011 12:54 ShadeR wrote: Alright then... time for me to have a crack at psychoanalysing the entire SC2 community. Many SC2 fans continue to troll the BW forums because they don't feel validated, This usually stems from a history of paternal neglect during their childhoods and the continual annoyance of the BW forums and desperate need to validate your existence to us is an extension of these daddy issues. You hate that we, the 'old guard' don't hate your new toy but rather are uninterested. After all bad attention is better than no attention at all. It enrages and depresses you at the same time that BW fans don't give s damn about SC2. SC2 fans! I understand your pain! They are a natural result of circumstances! Daddy might not but I'll still love you! Common...you're above this...don't feed the troll please. On July 30 2011 13:37 Blasterion wrote: + Show Spoiler + Type-Moon fan huh? they write a lot of good novels. Visual Novels are like... I read a lot of them but only few are memorable. People would probably kill me. for this comparison but, Think of Key Visual Arts as Blizzard. Clannad, Kannon, Air, Little Busters are the pillars of Visual Novel reading pratically, similar how Brood War holds its place in RTS and then Key writes the Starcraft 2 of Visual Novels, namely Rewrite. Kinda make the old Key fans go kinda wtf. The novels are good in its own rights but definitely didn't give the Key feel that the readers wanted to get from it. OMG Derail.... type moon ftw | ||
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Ribbon
United States5278 Posts
On July 30 2011 12:17 DoctorHelvetica wrote: It's upsetting to see a hobby/sport you cared about die away in favor of something new, especially when SC2 just doesn't interest you. It's only natural that there is resentment. I don't really get this "BW is dying" meme. Yeah, it's not as popular as it was during it's peak, but Flash is still making 6 figures not even counting tournament winnings. It's shrinking, maybe, but that doesn't even slightly mean it's dying. And the only direct negative effect SC2 has had on BW was that BW B-teamers no one cared about thought they could make it in another game if allowed to do their own thing. Some (Zergbong, Iron, kind of Nada) did well, and some (Boxer, SangHo) not so much. Despite intrigue's prediction, there's not going to be an influx of A-teams moving to SC2 next month, the people switching are either no-names or has-beens looking for a fresh start. So SC2 isn't taking BW's talent, and it sure as hell isn't taking the korean viewership. It's been fairly inconsequential. If BW is dying, it's not dying "in favor of" SC2. | ||
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WarSame
Canada1950 Posts
On July 30 2011 14:34 Ribbon wrote: I don't really get this "BW is dying" meme. Yeah, it's not as popular as it was during it's peak, but Flash is still making 6 figures not even counting tournament winnings. It's shrinking, maybe, but that doesn't even slightly mean it's dying. And the only direct negative effect SC2 has had on BW was that BW B-teamers no one cared about thought they could make it in another game if allowed to do their own thing. Some (Zergbong, Iron, kind of Nada) did well, and some (Boxer, SangHo) not so much. Despite intrigue's prediction, there's not going to be an influx of A-teams moving to SC2 next month, the people switching are either no-names or has-beens looking for a fresh start. So SC2 isn't taking BW's talent, and it sure as hell isn't taking the korean viewership. It's been fairly inconsequential. If BW is dying, it's not dying "in favor of" SC2. You can't deny BW is dying. Look at the foreign scene. most of the big name foreigners have shifted over to SCII(Two I can think of being GosiTerran and Idra). There are literally almost 0 $$$ tourneys in the foreign scene any more. Even inside SK BW is dying. SCII cannibalized a lot of the BW market. Most BW payers tried it. Some switched back because BW is a better game in most ways. Some enjoy what SCII has to offer and stuck with that. But this decimated the BW community. | ||
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wassbix
Canada499 Posts
On July 30 2011 14:53 Peterblue wrote: You can't deny BW is dying. Look at the foreign scene. most of the big name foreigners have shifted over to SCII(Two I can think of being GosiTerran and Idra). There are literally almost 0 $$$ tourneys in the foreign scene any more. Even inside SK BW is dying. SCII cannibalized a lot of the BW market. Most BW payers tried it. Some switched back because BW is a better game in most ways. Some enjoy what SCII has to offer and stuck with that. But this decimated the BW community. Foreigner BW scene dying means nothing really. It was tiny and pretty much a non-factor compared to the korean scene. While BW is in downturn in korea it has nothing to do with SC2 (foreigners really dont understand just how tiny and insignificant SC2 is in korea atm). If anything what hurt BW the most is gamers turning away from RTS/FPS and moving heavily into MMOs. | ||
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tripper688
United States569 Posts
On July 30 2011 14:34 Ribbon wrote: I don't really get this "BW is dying" meme. Yeah, it's not as popular as it was during it's peak, but Flash is still making 6 figures not even counting tournament winnings. It's shrinking, maybe, but that doesn't even slightly mean it's dying. And the only direct negative effect SC2 has had on BW was that BW B-teamers no one cared about thought they could make it in another game if allowed to do their own thing. Some (Zergbong, Iron, kind of Nada) did well, and some (Boxer, SangHo) not so much. Despite intrigue's prediction, there's not going to be an influx of A-teams moving to SC2 next month, the people switching are either no-names or has-beens looking for a fresh start. So SC2 isn't taking BW's talent, and it sure as hell isn't taking the korean viewership. It's been fairly inconsequential. If BW is dying, it's not dying "in favor of" SC2. I'm not sure I'm following you...by shrinking you mean losing players, losing teams, losing sponsorships, and possibly losing MBC...I guess you can categorize it as shrinking but slowly fading away/dying would be just as accurate a description, however unfortunate that may be. Yes it will still be around for a while longer (thank God) and I will still get to see some awesome BvZ and cheer for proleague for a while longer...but in the end it will pass. As far as cannibalizing, I agree, it's only going to cannibalize cast offs and borderline players but the foreign scene is pretty much 100% BW now. Hopefully by the time SC2 starts actually eating into our Proleague lineups, it will be a more refined game "worthy" of TBLS and the attention of all of us BW fans. | ||
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tripper688
United States569 Posts
On July 30 2011 15:06 wassbix wrote: Foreigner BW scene dying means nothing really. It was tiny and pretty much a non-factor compared to the korean scene. While BW is in downturn in korea it has nothing to do with SC2 (foreigners really dont understand just how tiny and insignificant SC2 is in korea atm). If anything what hurt BW the most is gamers turning away from RTS/FPS and moving heavily into MMOs. Still...I really really really do not want to see the day where I can no longer cheer for Proleague or watch my favorite players work their magic in the best RTS to date :/ | ||
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wassbix
Canada499 Posts
On July 30 2011 15:14 tripper688 wrote: Still...I really really really do not want to see the day where I can no longer cheer for Proleague or watch my favorite players work their magic in the best RTS to date :/ Well being hopeful is fine, but the myth that if BW dies in Korea suddenly they are going to pick up SC2 need to be dispelled. Honestly, there is a good chance SC2 is going to die before BW. I really doubt OGN, which has always focused in the internal market, is going to pick up SC2 when there is almost zero interest. | ||
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Ribbon
United States5278 Posts
On July 30 2011 14:53 Peterblue wrote: You can't deny BW is dying. Look at the foreign scene. most of the big name foreigners have shifted over to SCII. (Two I can think of being GosiTerran and Idra). For all intents and purposes, the foreign scene died in 2001. I count Idra as a BW B-teamer. (And, increasingly, an SC2 B-level as well) There are literally almost 0 $$$ tourneys in the foreign scene any more. I'm hurt, but this is perhaps more relevant. Yeah, there was the TSL2, but foreign BW was never more than a novelty act. Even inside SK BW is dying. SCII cannibalized a lot of the BW market. By "a lot", do you mean "a bunch of players nobody cared about, and like three guys who were good a long time ago"? Name a single player whose switch to SC2 actually hurt BW in a meaningful way. I'm pretty sure you guys don't miss Zergbong. Most BW payers tried it. Some switched back because BW is a better game in most ways. Some enjoy what SCII has to offer and stuck with that. But this decimated the BW community. Every single player who switched was either B-list, years past their prime, or retired. The only BW pro who was notable even in the last two years who plays SC2 is Forgg, and he doesn't play it professionally (I guess he just finds it fun). The only argument you could make that BW lost players worth mentioning is if you say young kids like MMA or Losira could have gotten good at BW had they stuck with it. But clearly they didn't think so, because they switched to a smaller game (And Losira lost in the first round of GSL 1 to notorious white dude Liquid'TLO, and didn't qualify for GSL2 or 3, so it's not like he had a natural talent for it). And we certainly didn't steal that many viewers, even in Korea. The GSL doesn't even get enough money to sustain itself. The only reason Korean SC2 is still around is because of foreign sponsorships like FXO buying Fou, or the Complexity-MVP merger. In BW, SKT1 is sponsored by SK Telecom. CJ Entus is sponsored by the CJ Corporation. In SC2 Prime and oGs are sponsored by rival local chicken joints. I think it's pretty clear where the viewers are. | ||
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maybenexttime
Poland5420 Posts
 Anyway, if SC2 players consider BW dying in Korea, then SC2 must be already dead. T___T | ||
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Ryo
8787 Posts
On July 30 2011 14:53 Peterblue wrote: You can't deny BW is dying. Look at the foreign scene. most of the big name foreigners have shifted over to SCII(Two I can think of being GosiTerran and Idra). There are literally almost 0 $$$ tourneys in the foreign scene any more. Even inside SK BW is dying. SCII cannibalized a lot of the BW market. Most BW payers tried it. Some switched back because BW is a better game in most ways. Some enjoy what SCII has to offer and stuck with that. But this decimated the BW community. The foreign scene has been dead for many years. To fans who follow the professional BW scene, the Korean scene has always been what matters to us. Everything else you said beginning with the sentence "there are literally..." is false. Read the other threads in the BW section and you will realize that yourself. | ||
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Ribbon
United States5278 Posts
On July 30 2011 15:44 maybenexttime wrote: Is the last bit (chicken joints) true? Yep. oGs is sponsored by Mom's Touch Chicken and Burger. Prime is sponsored by Sabasaba chicken. The oGs vs Prime Team League game was thus nicknamed The Chicken Wars. On July 30 2011 15:44 maybenexttime wrote: Anyway, if SC2 player consider BW dying in Korea, then SC2 must be already dead. T___T Yep! That's why most "SC2 fans" who declare BW dead are just trolls. BW is WAAAAAAAY bigger than SC2 in Korea, and probably Korean BW is comparable to SC2 worldwide, except of course consolidated and thus more efficient. I would believe Korean BW is bigger than international SC2, but I think that'd be close. SC2 has been out a little bit over a year. MC has earned just shy of 200k. If Nestea wins tonight, he'll have won $200k in a year as well. Not bad, but Flash is paid $250k a year, let alone prize money. | ||
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doubleupgradeobbies!
Australia1187 Posts
On July 30 2011 14:34 Ribbon wrote: Every single player who switched was either B-list, years past their prime, or retired. The only BW pro who was notable even in the last two years who plays SC2 is Forgg, and he doesn't play it professionally (I guess he just finds it fun). The only argument you could make that BW lost players worth mentioning is if you say young kids like MMA or Losira could have gotten good at BW had they stuck with it. But clearly they didn't think so, because they switched to a smaller game (And Losira lost in the first round of GSL 1 to notorious white dude Liquid'TLO, and didn't qualify for GSL2 or 3, so it's not like he had a natural talent for it). I think he was actually just referring to members of the general community switching over rather than specifically the 'big players' in the BW community. And while I somewhat agree with him that the BW community is certainly smaller than it used to be as can be evidenced by how few people are on iccup these days I also agree with your point that SC2 had no meaningful impact on the BW scene. In that BW's ability to produce content as a spectator sport has basically not changed. I agree that the people who have switched were no longer relevant in the top tiers of BW, and as such, no longer relevant in BW's ability to produce content. The foreigner scene was indeed a cery minor sideshow at best. All in all, I agree that to take BW is dying from this is certainly false (although if MBCgame shuts down with no equivalent replacement, it may be the beginnings of BW actually dying). While the community is certainly smaller, but the measure of BW's survival has been for a long time solely measured by the quantity and quality of content produced by Kespa/MBCgame/OGN in Korea. | ||
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Ribbon
United States5278 Posts
On July 30 2011 16:08 doubleupgradeobbies! wrote: I think he was actually just referring to members of the general community switching over rather than specifically the 'big players' in the BW community. And while I somewhat agree with him that the BW community is certainly smaller than it used to be as can be evidenced by how few people are on iccup these days I also agree with your point that SC2 had no meaningful impact on the BW scene. In that BW's ability to produce content as a spectator sport has basically not changed. As a member of the BW community who actually did switch (I had a semi-popular blog on ICCUP :O), it's not much of a loss . I think most of the people who stayed with BW were the biggest contributors to the community, with Moletrap (and Diggity?) being probably the only big losses. All in all, I agree that to take BW is dying from this is certainly false (although if MBCgame shuts down with no equivalent replacement, it may be the beginnings of BW actually dying). While the community is certainly smaller, but the measure of BW's survival has been for a long time solely measured by the quantity and quality of content produced by Kespa/MBCgame/OGN in Korea. Someone will take up the MSL mantle. Anibox is becoming a gaming network, so maybe them. Edits: Perhaps relevantly, the GSL finals had a bunch of SC2 fans with "Save MBCGame" signs, and the announcement that Yellow was "coming" to GSL August 12th for "Project A", which sounds more like a show than him being a player, but I guess we'll see. | ||
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Legatus Lanius
2135 Posts
i dunno, id like it alot if some of the other chaebols stepped in to sponsor some teams, like maybe lg or hyundai. even a smaller corporation like hynix would be super duper awesome. i think hynix would be a mean enough team name on its own, but you could probably add + Show Spoiler + cervix | ||
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