On July 30 2011 01:50 ampson wrote: So it's like the situation with WoW and how other MMOs have difficulty taking hold in the market. BW has been evolving for 10 years, the strategies are refined, the balance is proven, the skill ceiling is high and the game has pretty much been figured out. SC2 is still young with 2 more expansions to go, so the play will naturally not be as refined as brood war for quite some time. This is why I think that the BW fans don't like starcraft 2....yet. As for the community, BW fans have been here forever and dislike the flood of people SC2 brought because it makes them a smaller fish in a bigger pond. And a lot of them act like elitists because of this. Can't say that it's pleasant, but I don't care what they think.
Have to agree with a lot of this. Its a shame that a once great game like BW is nearly dead, but its very unfair that so many BW fans feel the need to take their frustration out on SC2 and its fans who merely wish to enjoy SC2 without harassment.
How ironic.
Your condescending tone is not necessary. Just a little bit of respect from BW fans towards SC2 fans would go a long way.
But isn't it hard for someone to show respect when you kind of are telling their passion is going to die blatantly to their face?
There is a old saying, Messengers of Peace do not carry spears.
It's what I was saying before. One of those touchy subjects that you really need to find the right place and time to post about or else it just flames up into a shitstorm.
On July 30 2011 03:22 Turenne wrote: No, it is not unfair to say a game is dying when it is blatantly dying. The only problem here is the numerous people deep in denial - that is understandable, but there is no need to attack those of us who live in the real world.
User was temp banned for this post.
I don't even know what to say to something like this lol.
DISCLAIMER: The opinion of Turenne is that of his own and does not reflect the official views of the Starcraft 2 community and its members
Lol that is quite obvious, it's just a statement that leaves one scratching one's head going...wthisdisiduneven...
You know what game I can't get into? Warcraft 3. People call SC2 a dumbed-down BW, but Warcraft 3, man. Especially in the single player, my armies felt extraneous because of how much better my heroes were, given that I had enough supply for like 2 archers. I guess it's just not my kind of game, though. I can't even beat the computer in multiplayer
did you ever watch pro WC3?
wow that sounded super elitist...but legit question, haha.
A lot of the armies are more for killing off opponents heroes more than anything else. The game kind of revolves around hero play, with...extraneous armies around them. Which is why the game got kind of a crummy following and poor footing in ESPORTS - it's not a very...different game. It'd be like if each race in BW only had one build order and unit composition to play with...BW probably would have died off pretty quick.
If you ever feel like it - though understandable if not - look up some Grubby, Moon, Sky, Lyn, reps in WC3, you'll get a better feel. It's a very different style of gameplay than what most BW players are used to.
You know what game I can't get into? Warcraft 3. People call SC2 a dumbed-down BW, but Warcraft 3, man. Especially in the single player, my armies felt extraneous because of how much better my heroes were, given that I had enough supply for like 2 archers. I guess it's just not my kind of game, though. I can't even beat the computer in multiplayer
did you ever watch pro WC3?
wow that sounded super elitist...but legit question, haha.
A lot of the armies are more for killing off opponents heroes more than anything else. The game kind of revolves around hero play, with...extraneous armies around them. Which is why the game got kind of a crummy following and poor footing in ESPORTS - it's not a very...different game. It'd be like if each race in BW only had one build order and unit composition to play with...BW probably would have died off pretty quick.
If you ever feel like it - though understandable if not - look up some Grubby, Moon, Sky, Lyn, reps in WC3, you'll get a better feel. It's a very different style of gameplay than what most BW players are used to.
I can't remember any decent performing undeads, well Lucifer but that's pretty much it
You know what game I can't get into? Warcraft 3. People call SC2 a dumbed-down BW, but Warcraft 3, man. Especially in the single player, my armies felt extraneous because of how much better my heroes were, given that I had enough supply for like 2 archers. I guess it's just not my kind of game, though. I can't even beat the computer in multiplayer
did you ever watch pro WC3?
wow that sounded super elitist...but legit question, haha.
A lot of the armies are more for killing off opponents heroes more than anything else. The game kind of revolves around hero play, with...extraneous armies around them. Which is why the game got kind of a crummy following and poor footing in ESPORTS - it's not a very...different game. It'd be like if each race in BW only had one build order and unit composition to play with...BW probably would have died off pretty quick.
If you ever feel like it - though understandable if not - look up some Grubby, Moon, Sky, Lyn, reps in WC3, you'll get a better feel. It's a very different style of gameplay than what most BW players are used to.
I can't remember any decent performing undeads, well Lucifer but that's pretty much it
I was gonna say "TeD, duh..."
but I realized I forgot him in my list, lol.
TeD, Susiria. Lucifer for sure. Undead was really considered the worst race, especially vs Orcs, so not many people played UD. I think TeD and Lucifer were the only ones to ever really make it far into any tournaments.
You know what game I can't get into? Warcraft 3. People call SC2 a dumbed-down BW, but Warcraft 3, man. Especially in the single player, my armies felt extraneous because of how much better my heroes were, given that I had enough supply for like 2 archers. I guess it's just not my kind of game, though. I can't even beat the computer in multiplayer
did you ever watch pro WC3?
wow that sounded super elitist...but legit question, haha.
A lot of the armies are more for killing off opponents heroes more than anything else. The game kind of revolves around hero play, with...extraneous armies around them. Which is why the game got kind of a crummy following and poor footing in ESPORTS - it's not a very...different game. It'd be like if each race in BW only had one build order and unit composition to play with...BW probably would have died off pretty quick.
If you ever feel like it - though understandable if not - look up some Grubby, Moon, Sky, Lyn, reps in WC3, you'll get a better feel. It's a very different style of gameplay than what most BW players are used to.
I can't remember any decent performing undeads, well Lucifer but that's pretty much it
I was gonna say "TeD, duh..."
but I realized I forgot him in my list, lol.
TeD, Susiria. Lucifer for sure. Undead was really considered the worst race, especially vs Orcs, so not many people played UD. I think TeD and Lucifer were the only ones to ever really make it far into any tournaments.
oh, and don't forget HasuObs! ^^
I played Humans and *looks at my Nation tag* yeah Sky fan of course
Can someone tell me why it is that BW events aside from osl/msl/spl are never listed as "On Air" streams. The only way to keep track of minor BW tourneys is to keep up with their threads. The games aren't listed on the calendar and this makes the viewership of foreigner BW events suffer. This is TL not giving a shit about BW.
You know what game I can't get into? Warcraft 3. People call SC2 a dumbed-down BW, but Warcraft 3, man. Especially in the single player, my armies felt extraneous because of how much better my heroes were, given that I had enough supply for like 2 archers. I guess it's just not my kind of game, though. I can't even beat the computer in multiplayer
did you ever watch pro WC3?
No, actually. Just the "sword saint" thing Moon did that is considered a great moment, and I was like "it's a lucky roll....".
I'm honestly curious if there's anything WC3 does better than SC2 (let alone Brood War). Micro? I've seen Moon's Zeppelin micro, and I'm sure it was hard, but I see that all the time in BW and occasionally in SC2, so for a game that's all micro, it wasn't really that impressive to me. When Moon switched to SC2, he was comically inept.
(For those unfamiliar with SC2, Moon should've used a quarter as many banelings (2) to kill nearly all the marines)
i think the hostility comes from the fact that you're interacting with a general community. and there's always hostility in anything like that.
want to start a flame war? just go to any random RPG thread/board and say you like final fantasy 6 over final fantasy 7. it will happen, unless you're posting on a final fantasy 6 thread on a final fantasy 6 board.
you can also: mention the word OP in any SC2 forum. suggest they rebalance something in any game. suggest story changes for a movie.
however if you want to really know the meat of a community, you need to get involved and not start shit with anything. want to get into BW? play BW! watch BW! meet people who watch and play BW and play and watch with them! there's way too much debating on the internet and it's sad that the image of a community is based on that and not what's actually getting done in the game.
i remember the influx of new players to shoryuken.com after sf4 came out. tons of hate everywhere between 3s, mvc2, sf2 players and sf4 players on the boards. but in real life everyone was friendly. everyone tried other games and got along with everyone else unless people wanted to start shit by saying their game is the better game.
there will always be trolls and people wanting to start shit, whether it's laker fans suggesting one-sided trades to pick up dwight howard, sc2 fans wanting jaedong/flash/stork/bisu to switch to sc2, etc. etc. but they're never really the heart and soul of any community, and any of this hostility is usually instigated by like 3 or 4 people and debated endlessly on the internet instead of actually getting involved in the hobby itself.
But but but.. 6 is really awesome. I may be biased since i just replayed 6 not too long ago. But its about as good as 7 imho, especially the Characters' special skills (Rage, Trance, Blitz, Bushido, Sketch etc) are so unique, plus Relic system makes it interesting.. But so are Materias >.<.
Ah, i almost forgot this is the Hostility thread, guess i better post something on topic. No sense in explaining the hate imho, what can be said is already said. All in all, its not like explaining why they (especially the trespassers) receive the hates is going to make them feel better. Most people should be perfectly aware of the current circumstances by now, after this many pages.
@ Turenne Making excuses is useless. Read Ryo's post again, and then take another look at your own.
I really like 8 though... cuz it's just something I enjoy so much also I am a Rinoa fan
Rinoa fans are killing ESPORTS.
Seriously, all she does is whine and be useless, and make Squall spontaneously go from "Whatever" to "I wuv you Bella!" between discs 2 and 3.
I always thought 9 was under-rated, but that's probably because I played it before I played 6.
But X-2 was an awful game I felt dirty for even getting halfway through, and XIII made me want to go to Japan and start punching people randomly. I guess XII wasn't bad, but I keep forgetting about it, even when I'm playing it.
You know what game I can't get into? Warcraft 3. People call SC2 a dumbed-down BW, but Warcraft 3, man. Especially in the single player, my armies felt extraneous because of how much better my heroes were, given that I had enough supply for like 2 archers. I guess it's just not my kind of game, though. I can't even beat the computer in multiplayer
Dude ur crazy, Witch Rinoa is crazy strong @.@ ... Although i agree that the story tried to make her out to be too much of a "Damsel in Distress", after that short stint of being the Resistance Leader at the start. A strong image like Tifa or to a lesser extent Terra is better received imo.
Yeah, her stats were good, but she was just annoying, useless, clingy, and unappealing.
I was disappointed at 13 too at first, but after giving it another go (i completed it the first time), i felt it actually is a very well-designed game. They cut off too much of the game (~40-60GB?) to fit into a XBOX360 though, so its understandable the game turned out to be a linear one-way road. But it had a lot of potential before that. Im looking forward to part 2 this coming January.
It's because Square has a CGI fetish. The graphics were so expensive they didn't have any money for a game. Also, Hope was the whiniest, most annoying character in a video game since Rose from MGS2
But maybe I'm just being unfair because I couldn't find good English commentary. I'm open to having my mind changed on this point.
On July 30 2011 08:19 puppykiller wrote: Can someone tell me why it is that BW events aside from osl/msl/spl are never listed as "On Air" streams. The only way to keep track of minor BW tourneys is to keep up with their threads. The games aren't listed on the calendar and this makes the viewership of foreigner BW events suffer. This is TL not giving a shit about BW.
As someone involved in a minor tournament, I agree with the "put it on air!" sentiment, though not so much with the "TL hates BW".
On July 30 2011 08:19 puppykiller wrote: Can someone tell me why it is that BW events aside from osl/msl/spl are never listed as "On Air" streams. The only way to keep track of minor BW tourneys is to keep up with their threads. The games aren't listed on the calendar and this makes the viewership of foreigner BW events suffer. This is TL not giving a shit about BW.
This has nothing to do with Teamliquid, so please don't spread false propaganda. Organizers need to submit their own events to the calendar, using the Teamliquid's Calendar Event Submission form.
I also disagree that this makes viewership of foreigner BW events suffer, as it's more likely that people will tune in to Sayle's featured stream where they can see [BW] icon next to it, as opposed to having his stream a part of some event that will probably get overlooked by majority of BW fans since those events in 99% of cases are SC2 related (except for OSL/MSL/SPL stuff).
On July 30 2011 08:19 puppykiller wrote: Can someone tell me why it is that BW events aside from osl/msl/spl are never listed as "On Air" streams. The only way to keep track of minor BW tourneys is to keep up with their threads. The games aren't listed on the calendar and this makes the viewership of foreigner BW events suffer. This is TL not giving a shit about BW.
This has nothing to do with Teamliquid, so please don't spread false propaganda. Organizers need to submit their own events to the calendar, using the Teamliquid's Calendar Event Submission form.
I also disagree that this makes viewership of foreigner BW events suffer, as it's more likely that people will tune in to Sayle's featured stream where they can see [BW] icon next to it, as opposed to having his stream a part of some event that will probably get overlooked by majority of BW fans since those events in 99% of cases are SC2 related (except for OSL/MSL/SPL stuff).
Until they see that Sayle (or whichever BW enthusiast/commentator) is streaming it...
On July 30 2011 08:19 puppykiller wrote: Can someone tell me why it is that BW events aside from osl/msl/spl are never listed as "On Air" streams. The only way to keep track of minor BW tourneys is to keep up with their threads. The games aren't listed on the calendar and this makes the viewership of foreigner BW events suffer. This is TL not giving a shit about BW.
This has nothing to do with Teamliquid, so please don't spread false propaganda. Organizers need to submit their own events to the calendar, using the Teamliquid's Calendar Event Submission form.
I also disagree that this makes viewership of foreigner BW events suffer, as it's more likely that people will tune in to Sayle's featured stream where they can see [BW] icon next to it, as opposed to having his stream a part of some event that will probably get overlooked by majority of BW fans since those events in 99% of cases are SC2 related (except for OSL/MSL/SPL stuff).
Until they see that Sayle (or whichever BW enthusiast/commentator) is streaming it...
No, actually. Just the "sword saint" thing Moon did that is considered a great moment, and I was like "it's a lucky roll....".
I'm honestly curious if there's anything WC3 does better than SC2 (let alone Brood War). Micro? I've seen Moon's Zeppelin micro, and I'm sure it was hard, but I see that all the time in BW and occasionally in SC2, so for a game that's all micro, it wasn't really that impressive to me. When Moon switched to SC2, he was comically inept.
The "Sword Saint" video wasn't Moon, it was Lyn and it wasn't supposed to be a display of skill, more luck than anything but really just a dramatic moment.
Showing Moon making a mistake in SC2 isn't proof that he is or was "comically inept," nor can it be used as a reflection on WC3 or its players.
I haven't played enough BW to comment but WC3 is far more micro intensive than SC2. I'd imagine there's more micro going on in WC3 than BW, though, just because that is what the game is entirely focused on.
No, actually. Just the "sword saint" thing Moon did that is considered a great moment, and I was like "it's a lucky roll....".
I'm honestly curious if there's anything WC3 does better than SC2 (let alone Brood War). Micro? I've seen Moon's Zeppelin micro, and I'm sure it was hard, but I see that all the time in BW and occasionally in SC2, so for a game that's all micro, it wasn't really that impressive to me. When Moon switched to SC2, he was comically inept.
The "Sword Saint" video wasn't Moon, it was Lyn and it wasn't supposed to be a display of skill, more luck than anything but really just a dramatic moment.
Showing Moon making a mistake in SC2 isn't proof that he is or was "comically inept," nor can it be used as a reflection on WC3 or its players.
I haven't played enough BW to comment but WC3 is far more micro intensive than SC2. I'd imagine there's more micro going on in WC3 than BW, though, just because that is what the game is entirely focused on.
Idk, there is some sick multitasking and micro in high level BW. Bisu pimp smacking Flash's vulture+tank push with a handful of goons instantly comes to mind lol.
No, actually. Just the "sword saint" thing Moon did that is considered a great moment, and I was like "it's a lucky roll....".
I'm honestly curious if there's anything WC3 does better than SC2 (let alone Brood War). Micro? I've seen Moon's Zeppelin micro, and I'm sure it was hard, but I see that all the time in BW and occasionally in SC2, so for a game that's all micro, it wasn't really that impressive to me. When Moon switched to SC2, he was comically inept.
The "Sword Saint" video wasn't Moon, it was Lyn and it wasn't supposed to be a display of skill, more luck than anything but really just a dramatic moment.
Showing Moon making a mistake in SC2 isn't proof that he is or was "comically inept," nor can it be used as a reflection on WC3 or its players.
I haven't played enough BW to comment but WC3 is far more micro intensive than SC2. I'd imagine there's more micro going on in WC3 than BW, though, just because that is what the game is entirely focused on.
Idk, there is some sick multitasking and micro in high level BW. Bisu pimp smacking Flash's vulture+tank push with a handful of goons instantly comes to mind lol.
Dragoons are retarded, but not when Bisu is on the other side of the mouse
On July 30 2011 08:19 puppykiller wrote: Can someone tell me why it is that BW events aside from osl/msl/spl are never listed as "On Air" streams. The only way to keep track of minor BW tourneys is to keep up with their threads. The games aren't listed on the calendar and this makes the viewership of foreigner BW events suffer. This is TL not giving a shit about BW.
I just confirmed, the Ribbon Classic is on the Calender and will thus be "On Air". If I sponsor another BW tournament, I'll call it something like [BW] Ribbon Classic II to make it easier to find on the Calender.
On July 30 2011 08:19 puppykiller wrote: Can someone tell me why it is that BW events aside from osl/msl/spl are never listed as "On Air" streams. The only way to keep track of minor BW tourneys is to keep up with their threads. The games aren't listed on the calendar and this makes the viewership of foreigner BW events suffer. This is TL not giving a shit about BW.
I just confirmed, the Ribbon Classic is on the Calender and will thus be "On Air". If I sponsor another BW tournament, I'll call it something like [BW] Ribbon Classic II to make it easier to find on the Calender.
On July 30 2011 11:53 Ribbon wrote: I just confirmed, the Ribbon Classic is on the Calender and will thus be "On Air". If I sponsor another BW tournament, I'll call it something like [BW] Ribbon Classic II to make it easier to find on the Calender.
Thats great! ^^ I hope the tourney goes well!
Sooo Just to make this post not spam : I think the hostility comes from some SC2 fans going into BW stream chat and saying something like "Ugly graphics" "People still play this game" and etc. comments and also the fact that SC2 fans goes into BW thread and spamming it with "X player should just switch to SC2 since BW is already dying" comments.
OFC I also think that some BW players are not innocent in this. I've seen some stupid threads popping out on SC2 section with the subject like "Your game sucks our game is much better." kinda thread. How do you think SC2 players will respond to that? I think its time that both community just get together and throw the hate away.
It's upsetting to see a hobby/sport you cared about die away in favor of something new, especially when SC2 just doesn't interest you. It's only natural that there is resentment.
EPT
