What's with all the hostility?

On July 28 2011 06:36 Eternal Dalek wrote:

Does it include the singleplayer campaigns and UMS maps?

On July 28 2011 06:26 Eternal Dalek wrote:
Anyway, does anyone know where I can buy SC + BW cheap and legal? It's $19.99 on Battle.net.

On July 28 2011 06:42 hayata2.0 wrote:
There's not as much going the other way seeing as the diehard BW fans tend to have the SC2 forums minimized in the sidebar and don't even look at them.

On July 28 2011 06:46 Itachii wrote:
I don't hate SC2, i just ignore it.

On July 28 2011 06:42 hayata2.0 wrote:


There's not as much going the other way seeing as the diehard BW fans tend to have the SC2 forums minimized in the sidebar and don't even look at them.

On July 28 2011 06:42 hayata2.0 wrote:
I feel its because there are a few ignorant asshats among the SC2 fans who just show up in BW threads and start spouting stuff like how BW dying would be the best thing ever since all the players would switch to SC2 and other stupid stuff like that.

These people give the rest of the SC2 fans a bad name, seeing as they're pretty much walking up to someone else's party uninvited, and saying that everyone should leave and come to their party cause this party sucks and theirs newer and better. Of course the guys that like the original party being intruded upon is going to be hostile towards those guys.

Of course, they probably don't know better and don't know that they're stepping on people's toes, but that just speaks to their ignorance and insensitivity.

There's not as much going the other way seeing as the diehard BW fans tend to have the SC2 forums minimized in the sidebar and don't even look at them.

On July 28 2011 07:25 Kipsate wrote:
Because there is always someone who must click the OSL/MSL/PL stream on the sidebar and type

:

People still play this game?
Some shit about graphics.
Make vikings or infestors
Why haven't they switched to sc2 yet''

or something along that, while it doesn't picture the entire SC2 community at all, I tend to get 5 or more trolls each time BW is on, its annoying as hell. You don't see BW people enter a SC2 stream and start telling people that their X favorite player would be nothing then a scrub or a B teamer at best in BW. . Moreover, I have argued in multiple SC2 VS BW threads and really, for some reason people can not look beyond the LOL NO MBS AND AUTOMINING IS STUPID and find the real reasons why BW is such a good game.

Then again, I haven't been here a long while so I don't know what the old Bw forums were like(e.g 3 years ago) but that is my observation for now.

On July 28 2011 07:31 Snuggles wrote:


Well what can I say =P Sucks to be a SC2 player that still has great respect for the BW scene.

At least it is an acknowledged fact that it is only the minority of the SC2 community that causes tension between the two. It's quite sad to see so much tension, it feels like we're brothers at war with eachother. Quite bitter imo.

On July 28 2011 07:31 Snuggles wrote:


Well what can I say =P Sucks to be a SC2 player that still has great respect for the BW scene.

At least it is an acknowledged fact that it is only the minority of the SC2 community that causes tension between the two. It's quite sad to see so much tension, it feels like we're brothers at war with eachother. Quite bitter imo.

On July 28 2011 06:53 Lucumo wrote:


Exactly
+ Show Spoiler +

On July 28 2011 06:53 erin[go]bragh wrote:


+1!

Also, I don't see any bw > sc2 hate in the BW forums unless it's called for.

On July 28 2011 08:02 Eternal Dalek wrote:


Link?

On July 28 2011 06:26 Eternal Dalek wrote:
Anyway, does anyone know where I can buy SC + BW cheap and legal? It's $19.99 on Battle.net.

On July 28 2011 08:08 Blasterion wrote:
Because Brood War fans are fantatics that can't tolerate anything other than Brood War and attack SC2 with every chance they get.

On July 28 2011 08:11 Crisium wrote:


And here's an example of why the SC2 trolls get on our nerves.

On July 28 2011 08:11 Crisium wrote:


And here's an example of why the SC2 trolls get on our nerves.

On July 28 2011 08:18 Blasterion wrote:

here's an example of why the Brood War trolls get on our nerves.

On July 28 2011 08:18 Blasterion wrote:

here's an example of why the Brood War trolls get on our nerves.

On July 28 2011 08:20 Brad` wrote:

Because they call you out for stupid posting?

ok.

On July 28 2011 08:18 Blasterion wrote:

here's an example of why the Brood War trolls get on our nerves.

On July 28 2011 07:48 yeti wrote:


The biggest criticism I have toward web format is the TLPD search bar now defaults to SC2, and you cant change the default. Not anything against SC2 itself, but it is certainly annoying to remember when looking up stats and names, and that frustration is often directed toward the SC2 influx.

On July 28 2011 08:22 Crisium wrote:
So it annoys you when someone points out SC2 trolls on a Brood War forum? You are attempting to compare that to your baseless remarks that ignore several pages worth of examples?

On July 28 2011 08:22 ThePianoDentist wrote:
for anybody wanting to purchase brood war for single player i recently got it cheap off amazon but couldnt find any cd key anywhere, but if you have a problem with that just google brood war cd key generator.

On July 28 2011 08:23 Rinrun wrote:

How dare you? Talking about a key gen? Buy the game, support them.

On July 28 2011 08:23 Blasterion wrote:

Sorry just read some of the other comments I must say it was pretty bad I'll accept my loss here. But I honestly just get the feel alot of Brood War fans are elitist people that just look down on other people because we play SC2.

On July 28 2011 08:23 Rinrun wrote:

How dare you? Talking about a key gen? Buy the game, support them.

Besides the above, I accept both with open arms.

On July 27 2011 21:32 HEROwithNOlegacy wrote:
Cya later broodwar, Starcraft II will easily become king now with contracts up in august and MBCgame announcing their change to a music station. Gl to the players and MBC game.

User was warned for this post

On July 27 2011 17:36 SCSaampson wrote:
I can't wait for SC:BW to be gone. This is the first step. Old games are old.

User was banned for this post.

On July 27 2011 17:43 Abrafred wrote:
silly hipsters.. bw is old

User was temp banned for this post.

On July 28 2011 01:56 rasers wrote:

how is there some "esport" in the fuckign west? its NOTHING. u kids go berserk over 80k people WORLD WIDE FUCKING WORLD WIDE. this is like nothing? fucking west "esport" is a joke. u throw 500 tournaments at each other. top 10 can make a living out of it. rest can mb play it for 1 year fulltime and then do somethign else again. how can u srsly call that a sports?

and now that u have koreanas coming over getting the money.

4 5 years from now on. next big RTS or whatever "omg THE esports game" will come out. and everyone of you will say "cu SCII time for somethign new" how the fuck is that a sports?.

On July 28 2011 07:47 rasers wrote:
"passion. SC2." i loled :D 4 5 yearsa from now on Wc4 or SC3 or wahtever comes out and ur passion for this awful game is gone because u will jump on the new shit. nice passion you have there.

On July 28 2011 08:29 wassbix wrote:


No one looks down on other people for playing some other videogame.

On July 28 2011 08:29 wassbix wrote:


No one looks down on other people for playing some other videogame. People get annoyed when SC2 players come to the BW section to perform SC2 chest beating on a topic that has nothing to do with SC2. Yellow retire -> he coming to sc2!!! MBCgame in trouble -> Flash coming to sc2!!!

It has no merit and its annoying.

On July 28 2011 08:23 Blasterion wrote:

Sorry just read some of the other comments I must say it was pretty bad I'll accept my loss here. But I honestly just get the feel alot of Brood War fans are elitist people that just look down on other people because we play SC2.

On July 28 2011 06:18 Eternal Dalek wrote:
I'm a Starcraft 2 player, and I sometimes lurk in the other forums here on TL.net to check up on how things are going. One thing that I have noticed in the BW forums is the hostility towards Starcraft 2, and to a lesser extent, its players. I find this quite odd as most Starcraft 2 players and pros that I know of speak very fondly of BW, placing it high on a pedestal as one of the greatest creations of humanity.

On July 28 2011 08:43 puppykiller wrote:


I dont look down on pro sc2 players but I definitely look down on the rest. I feel no guilt in thinking that players that are afraid of single building select and the lack of a find match button are cowards

On July 28 2011 07:25 Kipsate wrote:
Because there is always someone who must click the OSL/MSL/PL stream on the sidebar and type

:

People still play this game?
Some shit about graphics.
Make vikings or infestors
Why haven't they switched to sc2 yet''

or something along that, while it doesn't picture the entire SC2 community at all, I tend to get 5 or more trolls each time BW is on, its annoying as hell. You don't see BW people enter a SC2 stream and start telling people that their X favorite player would be nothing then a scrub or a B teamer at best in BW. . Moreover, I have argued in multiple SC2 VS BW threads and really, for some reason people can not look beyond the LOL NO MBS AND AUTOMINING IS STUPID and find the real reasons why BW is such a good game.

Then again, I haven't been here a long while so I don't know what the old Bw forums were like(e.g 3 years ago) but that is my observation for now.

On July 28 2011 09:17 xarthaz wrote:
The bitterness is not from the outside, or the new sc2 player influx, it is from ourselves. Some of the bitterness is related to coming to accept the world around us changing, when we do not. You see, in the larger scale, the casualisation of the gaming culture is one of the hardest things to come to copes for diehards

On July 28 2011 06:23 G3CKO wrote:
With SC2 this website seemed to have attracted a bunch of immature kiddies that don't understand much about how this site works or how BW works. Those people seem to give a lot of SC2 players a bad name.

On July 28 2011 10:10 Telcontar wrote:
It's simple. There's residual bad blood from the whole Blizzard vs Kespa ordeal which naturally spawned BW vs SC2. While that chapter is closed now, some folk are still not wise enough to not provoke the other side which just sets off a chain reaction. Sadly, I don't see it going away anytime soon. I hope to be proven wrong though.

On July 28 2011 10:15 ballasdontcry wrote:
SC2 community is stereotyping BW community based on a few trolls. vice versa. nothing to see here.

Best not to take the internet too seriously. I support both games.

On July 28 2011 10:48 carebear91 wrote:
i'd say most of them are against sc2 trolls who generally come and troll the BW forums. As far as i know, i have yet to see a BW player go on an all out hate campaign against sc2.

On July 28 2011 10:36 ThePianoDentist wrote:
its not just brood war stream chats theres idiot comments in. watching sc2 matches it's just "blah blah blah was banned for 10 minutes" every half a second. just "terran is OP" "No protoss is OP" "Zerg is OP" "No Terran is OP"....something about live stream chats just makes people go mental.

and as the person above says just dont take the internet too seriously. a troll is only a troll if you feed him

On July 28 2011 10:21 Ribbon wrote:

It'd probably take an actual concerted effort to patch things up, which no one is in the mood for. I wanted to try doing some kind of tournament where SC2 players had to play BW and vice-versa, but that got shot down pretty hard. ;_;

The closest thing to a common ground is things like the SC2:BW KOTH I'm watching in another tab right now. It's actually pretty nifty to see low-level "BW" with commentary, something it's hard to get for real BW.

But, at this point, the hostility is probably self-sustaining. We hate because we hate, now.

As a result of this our default position seems to have become annoyance we just expect everyone to be trolling or wasting are time because the vast majority of people are.

On July 28 2011 12:05 Eternal Dalek wrote:
Weird how civil a thread about hostility and trolling is. There is hope for humanity yet.

I thought I'd go watch a BW stream to get away from the QQ firestorm ravaging the SC2 forums regarding the new ladder maps and how they make Terran OP. I go to the classic TL BW stream and watch a few games. Some observations:

1. Protoss is harassing Terran? I remember how people raged against reaver drops back then, much like people QQ about blue flame hellion drops today.

2. For a game over 10 years old, BW's graphics has aged really well. Blizzard games in general age really well. I miss how bright the colors were compared to SC2.

3. Mech against Protoss.

4. Spider mines!

5. Protoss units not being instantly teleported into.the battlefield.

6. The maps are so wide open.

On a nostalgia trip and having fun. Be back later.

On July 28 2011 10:09 goldfishs wrote:
Some deluded people got into their head that broadwarplayers are superior and more hardcore or whatever then starcraft 2 players. These people are mainly former starcraft 2 players who wants to be hardcore bw player and figures the brightest way to show everyone their resolve is to bash starcraft 2 as loud and often as possible.

You find this in any game, It's the cool club.

On July 28 2011 09:20 moopie wrote:
My biggest issue is that sc2 fans on tl (which outnumber bw these days by quite a bit) like to stroll into BW general any time there's a new thread or bw news update and inject offtopic sc2 shit, which they know full-well will just annoy the bw fans. Every time.

Flash's wrist? come to sc2!
STX roster trades? zomg come to sc2!
bnet attack? i want _____ to move to sc2 already!
YellOw reitiring? oh god slayers'yellow!1!eleven!
mbcgame changing format? this is great news for sc2!
LR threads? he needs to get broodlords!

And that isn't even counting the trolls who just come in to say "bw sucks" / "bw is going to die" / "these graphics are terrible" / "i cant believe these guys are still playing such an ancient game" / etc.

Believe me, it gets old quite fast. If sc2 fans wanted to, they could just make a circlejerk thread for these comments in sc2 general and it wouldn't bother us in the least.

On July 28 2011 12:12 Ciryandor wrote:


There are comparatively fewer trolls from BW players; and many of those trolls wouldn't even touch SC2 with a ten-foot pole in the first place. (at least as far as I've seen them)

On July 28 2011 12:09 Blasterion wrote:

Of course one of the main causes of the hostility is that the Brood War folks seems to all ways think they are playing a superior game. Which is up to debate of course. And will condemn in turn SC2 as an inferior game. Also up to debate. Now if you played SC2 you probably won't stand for other people shitting on your game. So you shit on their game. And so starts the century long war

Yes SC2 people troll BW threads alot

but if BW people would stop shitting on how SC2 is a terrible game, I think it'd improve the situation too

On July 28 2011 12:23 Ciryandor wrote:


Problem with that unfortunately is that more than a few of the people who want to play BOTH and see them thrive are being well-meaning in their criticism of SC2, but end up being seen as anti-SC2 and pro-BW because they've expressed that "x lesson from BW" could apply to SC2, and people take it that "Why should we adopt such an old game's mechanics?!"

It's best exemplified by "Why don't we have macro maps in SC2?" debate that happened during launch; only that EVERYONE agreed that it could only be a good thing.

On July 28 2011 08:43 puppykiller wrote:


I dont look down on pro sc2 players but I definitely look down on the rest. I feel no guilt in thinking that players that are afraid of single building select and the lack of a find match button are cowards

On July 28 2011 12:20 Blasterion wrote:

Well more like you guys bash SC2 with every chance you get and keep telling us it's a terrible game, which is up for debate, but then you guys start to call people trolling when they defend the game. You may not want to touch SC2 but you certainly don't hesitate to bash it as often as you can

On July 28 2011 12:33 Ciryandor wrote:


Dude, don't take it personally, I try to watch SC2 when I can, especially games that the majority of people recommend. As far as I've seen, it's quite unfortunate that given the number of blatant anti BW trolls that go into BW streams and threads that normally innocent queries from less-than-informed SC2 players get lumped in with trolling. However, as far as SC2 streams are concerned, it's incredibly rare to see a pro-BW troll droning around.

There's a difference between BW people talking in a BW stream about SC2's flaws and vice versa versus people jumping into the other game's stream then openly ticking people off.

Look, I don't have an issue with characterization, but don't try to make it a personal thing. (And damned if your SKT T1 icon makes you look like one of those obnoxious Bisu trolls that non SKT fans keep on ragging about )

On July 28 2011 12:29 Blasterion wrote:

Well said, but seriously how often do you see something like this

I think that is a good example of why SC2 players really dislike the elitist attitude that BW players seem to wear around them

On July 28 2011 12:35 Blasterion wrote:

Eh..... but I play Terran, I am more into you know Fantasy, kinda sad he's been not in the greatest shape lately

but I'll say Bisu is a sexy sexy man

PS I use a KT bag because mecca doesn't sell SKT stuff =(

romantic hobbies like yuri, shoujo manga, etc.

On July 28 2011 12:40 Ciryandor wrote:

WRT to the second quote: I agree that that should probably merit a warn; no sense in inflaming potential SC2 trollers more by dissing them, but it's quite unfortunate that even if BW players are being less-than-polite, that at least they have enough sense to keep it on this side of the community line, not go to SC2 general and spout something about MMA, MC, NesTea and MVP being B-Team scrubs in BW.

On July 28 2011 12:20 Blasterion wrote:

Well more like you guys bash SC2 with every chance you get and keep telling us it's a terrible game, which is up for debate, but then you guys start to call people trolling when they defend the game. You may not want to touch SC2 but you certainly don't hesitate to bash it as often as you can

On July 28 2011 12:20 Blasterion wrote:

Well more like you guys bash SC2 with every chance you get and keep telling us it's a terrible game

On July 28 2011 14:03 Slaynte wrote:
how do you hide the starcraft 2 sidebar? i need to do that ahah

On July 28 2011 14:06 LanTAs wrote:


Oh come on, this is exactly what the OP was talking about

I think there is hostility because of the "If BW dies then SC2 gets better" or the other way around, i have grown fond of both games, and quite frankly i can see them coexisting together, other than that i dont understand why there would always be that one troll from either sides and starts a flame war, its not cool.

On July 28 2011 06:27 puppykiller wrote:
No one I know is hostile to ppl who are switching from sc2 to BW. Most hostility i notice is directed towards ppl who know absolutely nothing about BW trying to talk about the game like they play it everyday.

On July 28 2011 14:23 writer22816 wrote:


This. BW fans have to put up with a lot of bullshit posts like "Flash/JD/Bisu/X should switch to SC2", "BW is outdated", etc by people who clearly have never even watched competitive BW. Just look at all the hate that intrigue got when he wrote this. Facts that were obvious to anyone who was familiar with both scenes get shouted down by a legion of people who have only ever watched SC2 and still think their opinion is worth just as much as people who have been following Starcraft for years.

On July 28 2011 14:03 Slaynte wrote:
how do you hide the starcraft 2 sidebar? i need to do that ahah

On July 28 2011 14:42 tyCe wrote:
However, there's a general trend of SC2-bashing and not specifically SC2 fan-bashing. I get the impression that some BW-exclusive fans are becoming defensive because of the international popularity and fame that SC2 has gotten in just one year, and not to mention the fantastic prize pools. I personally still find BW more enjoyable to watch, but I've found many comments in the BW section about SC2 to be unabashedly biased to the nth degree.

There's some edginess between SC2 and BW fans. Many SC2 fans cannot accept that BW has a higher skill ceiling and that BW pros have dominated the SC2 scene today (international, especially American BW doesn't count since the scene was practically dead and the talent pool had already moved over to WC3). Many BW fans cannot accept that BW as an esport is dying; sponsors are harder to come by, young amateurs are switching over, teams are being disbanded, even TV channels are possibly dropping BW. While I'm sure that as long as the current A and S-class players continue playing, there will be enough fans to sustain pro BW for a while, I really don't think BW will outlast this TBLS era

Flash is the last bonjwa. Stork won't ever make a come back T.T

On July 28 2011 14:53 Lebesgue wrote:
I don't care about SC2. Different game. But I agree with other people about the constant influx of trolls in the BW threads which are annoying as hell.

And I have to say that since SC2 was released I fell that the number of trolls has increased significantly. Also I'm under impression SC2 fans are younger than average BW fan (make sense since SC1 was released in 1998) and hence less mature which I find also annoying.

But to re-iterate: "I just don't care about SC2; at all, whatsoever."

On July 28 2011 14:54 wassbix wrote:


I don't think so, I mean everyone fully understands BW will die and that isn't the problem. What annoys people are either people coming purposefully to taunt people at any sign of BW's scene having problems. That and the never ending "y u no move on to sc2???"

I don't know about you guys but when BW dies I'll probably wash my hands of RTS and eSports. Tried SC2 (the BW people were the most hyped about sc2 back in the days ) didn't enjoy it. Felt nothing like BW and I don't see a game like BW coming back for a long time so adios~

On July 28 2011 15:14 Lokian wrote:
Okay, after reading several posts, I think the 'resentment' (not hostility) is because of BW elitism. Derr right? lol

BW elitism.

BW is the best game.
No other game is better than BW.
Everything about BW is interesting.
SC2 needs to have the same units as BW.
All missing units that are from BW needs to be in SC2 for sc2 to suceed.
Units in sc2 needs to have same movement as BW.
sc2 needs more restraint on macro to be more 'skillful.'
BW is easier to watch because ive only watched sc2 for couple of months whereas bw years.
sc2 folks shouldn't say nothin about sc1 cuz they know nothin
sc2 is not e-sports.
korea rules.

Basically, most of the complaints are not from SC2 folks, but from SC1 elitist. SO what are people talking about sc2 ppl complaining and crap? Almost everysingle sc2 balance thread had BW comparison and shit.

On July 28 2011 15:14 Lokian wrote:
Okay, after reading several posts, I think the 'resentment' (not hostility) is because of BW elitism. Derr right? lol

BW elitism.

BW is the best game.
No other game is better than BW.
Everything about BW is interesting.
SC2 needs to have the same units as BW.
All missing units that are from BW needs to be in SC2 for sc2 to suceed.
Units in sc2 needs to have same movement as BW.
sc2 needs more restraint on macro to be more 'skillful.'
BW is easier to watch because ive only watched sc2 for couple of months whereas bw years.
sc2 folks shouldn't say nothin about sc1 cuz they know nothin
sc2 is not e-sports.
korea rules.

Basically, most of the complaints are not from SC2 folks, but from SC1 elitist. SO what are people talking about sc2 ppl complaining and crap? Almost everysingle sc2 balance thread had BW comparison and shit.

On July 28 2011 15:18 Lokian wrote:
They say they don't care but want sc2 deleted from teamliquid. GG.

On July 28 2011 14:07 Lokian wrote:
Hate is from Blizzard vs Kespa. I think BW fanatics feel like someone is shoving food in their mouth with stopping bw starleagues and throwing money into sc2. Although it's just a matter of IP laws that was ongoing for years, opportunity of sc2 release went both ways for blizzard.

If that didn't happen, bw elitists won't hold much grudge. And the korean culture is very sensitive to foreign culture in regards to how business is ran.

Seeing as the blizz vs kespa has now been resolved, I think this hostility will soon fade in time.

On July 28 2011 15:22 Lokian wrote:
im not one to speak about evyerone that only likes bw but i was talking about bw elitists FYI. SO most of you guys are bw elitists or what?

On July 28 2011 15:14 Lokian wrote:
Okay, after reading several posts, I think the 'resentment' (not hostility) is because of BW elitism. Derr right? lol

BW elitism.

BW is the best game.
No other game is better than BW.
Everything about BW is interesting.
SC2 needs to have the same units as BW.
All missing units that are from BW needs to be in SC2 for sc2 to suceed.
Units in sc2 needs to have same movement as BW.
sc2 needs more restraint on macro to be more 'skillful.'
BW is easier to watch because ive only watched sc2 for couple of months whereas bw years.
sc2 folks shouldn't say nothin about sc1 cuz they know nothin
sc2 is not e-sports.
korea rules.

Basically, most of the complaints are not from SC2 folks, but from SC1 elitist. SO what are people talking about sc2 ppl complaining and crap? Almost everysingle sc2 balance thread had BW comparison and shit.

And because sc2 competitve gaming exploded around the world, this comparison is one of the main reason since their beloved fan-site is now covered in goo.

On July 28 2011 14:59 rabidch wrote:

im hoping on HoTS to at least add more interesting factors into the game like what medics, lurkers, dts etc. did for bw, but im kind of worried since they cant change too much of the original

On July 28 2011 15:14 Lokian wrote:
Okay, after reading several posts, I think the 'resentment' (not hostility) is because of BW elitism. Derr right? lol

BW elitism.

BW is the best game.
No other game is better than BW.
Everything about BW is interesting.
SC2 needs to have the same units as BW.
All missing units that are from BW needs to be in SC2 for sc2 to suceed.
Units in sc2 needs to have same movement as BW.
sc2 needs more restraint on macro to be more 'skillful.'
BW is easier to watch because ive only watched sc2 for couple of months whereas bw years.
sc2 folks shouldn't say nothin about sc1 cuz they know nothin
sc2 is not e-sports.
korea rules.

Basically, most of the complaints are not from SC2 folks, but from SC1 elitist. SO what are people talking about sc2 ppl complaining and crap? Almost everysingle sc2 balance thread had BW comparison and shit.

And because sc2 competitve gaming exploded around the world, this comparison is one of the main reason since their beloved fan-site is now covered in goo.

On July 28 2011 15:14 Lokian wrote:
Okay, after reading several posts, I think the 'resentment' (not hostility) is because of BW elitism. Derr right? lol

BW elitism.

BW is the best game.
No other game is better than BW.
Everything about BW is interesting.
SC2 needs to have the same units as BW.
All missing units that are from BW needs to be in SC2 for sc2 to suceed.
Units in sc2 needs to have same movement as BW.
sc2 needs more restraint on macro to be more 'skillful.'
BW is easier to watch because ive only watched sc2 for couple of months whereas bw years.
sc2 folks shouldn't say nothin about sc1 cuz they know nothin
sc2 is not e-sports.
korea rules.

Basically, most of the complaints are not from SC2 folks, but from SC1 elitist. SO what are people talking about sc2 ppl complaining and crap? Almost everysingle sc2 balance thread had BW comparison and shit.

And because sc2 competitve gaming exploded around the world, this comparison is one of the main reason since their beloved fan-site is now covered in goo.

On July 28 2011 15:56 infinitestory wrote:


posts like this are exactly the reason for "hostility"

On July 28 2011 15:36 Shatter wrote:
On your first points that "BW is the best game" and "there is no better game." I'm sure a lot of people's favorite game is BW and, being their favorite, there is no better game to them personally. I don't see what is wrong with having a favorite game.

On July 28 2011 15:54 InFdude wrote:
Also @ the guy speaking about the popularity and the prize pools and popularity of sc2.How much did all SC2 pro players win for 1 year and how much did Flash win?

On July 28 2011 15:22 Lokian wrote:
im not one to speak about evyerone that only likes bw but i was talking about bw elitists FYI. SO most of you guys are bw elitists or what?

On July 28 2011 15:14 Lokian wrote:
Okay, after reading several posts, I think the 'resentment' (not hostility) is because of BW elitism. Derr right? lol

BW elitism.

BW is the best game.
No other game is better than BW.
Everything about BW is interesting.
SC2 needs to have the same units as BW.
All missing units that are from BW needs to be in SC2 for sc2 to suceed.
Units in sc2 needs to have same movement as BW.
sc2 needs more restraint on macro to be more 'skillful.'
BW is easier to watch because ive only watched sc2 for couple of months whereas bw years.
sc2 folks shouldn't say nothin about sc1 cuz they know nothin
sc2 is not e-sports.
korea rules.

Basically, most of the complaints are not from SC2 folks, but from SC1 elitist. SO what are people talking about sc2 ppl complaining and crap? Almost everysingle sc2 balance thread had BW comparison and shit.

And because sc2 competitve gaming exploded around the world, this comparison is one of the main reason since their beloved fan-site is now covered in goo.

On July 28 2011 16:20 TheButtonmen wrote:


The total prize money for SC2 this year was over $2 million, Flash gets payed $200Kish? Not sure what that has to do with anything.

The MBC change over is terrible news even though I'm not a BW fan I'd always hoped that once the GomTV/Blizzard deal lapsed that we might see some SC2 on air; suck for everyone involved in either Starcraft scene.

-shrug- Don't see why the two sides need to get all up in each others faces though.

On July 28 2011 15:14 Lokian wrote:
Okay, after reading several posts, I think the 'resentment' (not hostility) is because of BW elitism. Derr right? lol

BW elitism.

BW is the best game.
No other game is better than BW.
Everything about BW is interesting.
SC2 needs to have the same units as BW.
All missing units that are from BW needs to be in SC2 for sc2 to suceed.
Units in sc2 needs to have same movement as BW.
sc2 needs more restraint on macro to be more 'skillful.'
BW is easier to watch because ive only watched sc2 for couple of months whereas bw years.
sc2 folks shouldn't say nothin about sc1 cuz they know nothin
sc2 is not e-sports.
korea rules.

Basically, most of the complaints are not from SC2 folks, but from SC1 elitist. SO what are people talking about sc2 ppl complaining and crap? Almost everysingle sc2 balance thread had BW comparison and shit.

And because sc2 competitve gaming exploded around the world, this comparison is one of the main reason since their beloved fan-site is now covered in goo.

On July 28 2011 17:03 doubleupgradeobbies! wrote:
I can't entirely agree with what alot of people are saying, that it is just a response to sc2 trolls on bw topics/threads.

I can't speak for everyone, but this is at least how I feel, and I suspect many of us BW 'elitists' are probably in the same boat, but that is all incidental, let me tell you my story:

Firstly like many BW players, I looked forward to SC2 when it was first announced, there were probably no single group of people in the world more excited about SC2 than we were. I gave it ago during beta, it looked promising but had many shortfalls, but hey it's beta.

As beta progressed my expectations dropped incrementally, maybe I was just expecting too much, maybe I should simply expect less, and so I did. I never wanted a direct port of BW with a graphics update, I no longer cared about about MBS or automine, high excitement units? I guess I can do without those too. Removal of any meaningful defenders advantage? ok sure. Heck graphical clarity didn't even matter anymore.

It still failed to meet my expectations.

I gave it a go, I wasn't my thing, whatever, that's the past.

Then the SC2 section appeared on TL, rather annoyingly placed between general forums and the the broodwars section, well it's not my forum, their house, they can do whatever they want with it, it's less convenient now, but I can live with that.

Then the foreigner scene switched over to SC2, well ok, the foreigner scene was significantly less interesting than the proscene, not a big deal.

Then the SC2 tlpd, fpl, and wiki popped, well thats a bit annoying, now I have to scroll further and click more everytime I want to get anywhere.

Then Blizzard sued Kespa, hey they may or may not have had the legal right of it, but they were knowingly trying to take away a great chunk of BW and offering us nothing in return.

And then the SC2 trolls started appearing. Not normally a problem, trolls will be trolls, we've had protoss 1a2a3a trolls for years. But they have the temerity to tell us to switch, because BW graphics are old, or because SC2 is the future, or for ESPORTS, and to accuse us of not giving SC2 a real go before dismissing it.

Well...WE ARE THE BW COMMUNITY. WE were excited about SC2 before beta was even released, and were looking at it to be the successor long before you jumped on this bandwagon, WE pioneered the market which you now claim to be advocating, and still have the most developed eSports market anywhere in the world, WE made this platform, on which you are so casually telling us that our game and community are dying, what it is today. How dare you come to our threads and our streams, and accuse us of ignorance towards your game. Of all the communities, we were the one most involved in SC2, and have given the 2 games the most thorough comparison. Trust me, we remain here only because we have made an informed choice to do so.

So you see, to say I have no hostility towards SC2 Would be wishful thinking. What I have, is the restraint to simply ignore SC2 rather than going to their side of the forums to derail their topics, because frankly I don't care enough about it, or maybe i'm just more of a passive aggressive type.

I accept that lots of people like SC2 better, thats a perfectly valid point of view, each to their own, but no amount of restraint stops me from being annoyed, and dare I say it hostile. You guys already have your side of the forum, if want to talk about SC2, stay on that side.

On July 28 2011 17:03 doubleupgradeobbies! wrote:
You guys already have your side of the forum, if want to talk about SC2, stay on that side.

On July 28 2011 17:31 zatic wrote:

Agreed with everything up to this point. I don't like this line of thinking at all, and it is exactly what people mean when they ask where all the hostility comes from.

We are still one site, one TL, one community. There are lots and lots of people who are passionate about both games. Sure there are sub communities within TL, the people following BW Korea only being one of them. But topics will continue to come up in those sub communities which are of interest to everyone within the TL community as a whole. The MSL shutting down thread being the most prominent example.

In that example, it was the BW Korea folks who met everyone else with nothing but hostility, and there is no excuse for it. The blame is entirely on them. I have read pretty much the entire MSL thread. Among those 1500 replies were less than handful you could rightfully characterize as "SC2 trolls". Yet everyone who even mentioned "SC2" in their posts what met with the unreasonable hostility this the OP is talking about.

And as you yourself know "trolls" in every community are a fraction, a tiny, vocal minority. Yet you take these few idiots as a convenient excuse to hate the entire SC2 part of our community.

You talk about disappointment. It was indeed really disappointing to see over that MSL thread what a stubborn angry and hateful bunch the SCBW community on this site has become.

On July 28 2011 17:31 zatic wrote:

You talk about disappointment. It was indeed really disappointing to see over that MSL thread what a stubborn angry and hateful bunch the SCBW community on this site has become.

On July 28 2011 17:31 zatic wrote:

Agreed with everything up to this point. I don't like this line of thinking at all, and it is exactly what people mean when they ask where all the hostility comes from.

We are still one site, one TL, one community. There are lots and lots of people who are passionate about both games. Sure there are sub communities within TL, the people following BW Korea only being one of them. But topics will continue to come up in those sub communities which are of interest to everyone within the TL community as a whole. The MSL shutting down thread being the most prominent example.

In that example, it was the BW Korea folks who met everyone else with nothing but hostility, and there is no excuse for it. The blame is entirely on them. I have read pretty much the entire MSL thread. Among those 1500 replies were less than handful you could rightfully characterize as "SC2 trolls". Yet everyone who even mentioned "SC2" in their posts what met with the unreasonable hostility this the OP is talking about.

And as you yourself know "trolls" in every community are a fraction, a tiny, vocal minority. Yet you take these few idiots as a convenient excuse to hate the entire SC2 part of our community.

You talk about disappointment. It was indeed really disappointing to see over that MSL thread what a stubborn angry and hateful bunch the SCBW community on this site has become.

On July 28 2011 17:56 zatic wrote:
One community. As I said there are lots of people passionate about both games, and there are topics that are of interest to both SC2 and SCBW followers, and these will be places where both will post, regardless of what forum the thread is in.

On July 28 2011 17:58 TwoToneTerran wrote:
It's like if GomTV said "Sorry, we're removing the GSL," and then dozens of BW posters came into the thread about it and said "Well, this is a good thing! Now all of these SC2 players can pick up BW, which is a far superior game anyhow! As long as it helps BW, I don't care." And no single damn SC2 supporter in this entire forum would look at that with anything but disdain.

On July 28 2011 17:31 zatic wrote:

Agreed with everything up to this point. I don't like this line of thinking at all, and it is exactly what people mean when they ask where all the hostility comes from.

On July 28 2011 17:12 Hinanawi wrote:
With SC2, TL's Brood War fans got drowned out. I think the site traffic went up something crazy like 10x.

Personally I do not give a rat's ass about SC2, and I really wish they would make a bw.teamliquid.net subdomain that just has Brood War news, forums and calendar. I can't even use the calendar here anymore, it's so flooded with every $50 prize pool SC2 tournament ever made.

On July 28 2011 17:31 zatic wrote:


You talk about disappointment. It was indeed really disappointing to see over that MSL thread what a stubborn angry and hateful bunch the SCBW community on this site has become.

On July 28 2011 18:11 doubleupgradeobbies! wrote:
That sounds like a great idea to me. It might well split the community, but I think that ship has already sailed. Perhaps to avert a full split there can just be another subsection of BW, that is like 'BW only'. Because frankly, some of us are just going to retreat further and further into subsections of the site to get away from sc2 talk, and the more restricted sections would allow those who are interested in both to interact easily with both sides of the community.

On July 28 2011 18:25 ShadeR wrote:
Ribbon is eternally butt-hurt by Intrigue's Final Edit.

On July 28 2011 18:11 doubleupgradeobbies! wrote:
And I think the only ways to stop it now, are either to let the split happen, eg so that there is somewhere for the 'hostile BW people' to retreat to where they don't have to deal with sc2, or to just simply hand out alot of bans until alot of the problem people like myself realise that our attitude is perhaps too divisive for us still to be on TL.

On July 28 2011 18:00 Sawamura wrote:

How can we get long when they have different believes and ideal zatic ? Sc2 is a completely different game and is not even close to Broodwar how are you sure they are going to be in a mindset of a one community . From the previous posts we had in MBC down they are really happy to see something that is cherish in our heart die so they can reap all the good bw players from us . So it's okay to make comments and such and not to forsee what's going to happen next .

Sure they are passionate enough if tl.net is actually bent on doing so to make such a community where we can get along it should have already have scrap the sc2 section and bw and make it a header that only shows STARCRAFT NO 2 and No BW and until than i don't think we can ever get along not .

On July 28 2011 18:41 zatic wrote:

Well too bad then. I know I have very little sympathy for the people with openly expressed hostility towards the majority of our community, and value the interests of people who love and follow both games, or the people who just follow one without hating the other much higher.

On July 28 2011 18:57 ffreakk wrote:


I sincerely hope that "the majority of the community" means something else rather than "the SC2 crowd". Since it is a well-known fact that they are the majority.

On July 28 2011 18:41 zatic wrote:

Well too bad then. I know I have very little sympathy for the people with openly expressed hostility towards the majority of our community, and value the interests of people who love and follow both games, or the people who just follow one without hating the other much higher.

On July 28 2011 19:05 Brad` wrote:

You described the entire bw community as angry and hateful so I guess openly expressing hostility towards the minority of the community is fine.

On July 28 2011 19:08 ShadeR wrote:

Tl has never been a democracy wth do you want to do? Stage a Coup d'état?

And as you yourself know "trolls" in every community are a fraction, a tiny, vocal minority. Yet you take these few idiots as a convenient excuse to hate the entire SC2 part of our community.

You talk about disappointment. It was indeed really disappointing to see over that MSL thread what a stubborn angry and hateful bunch the SCBW community on this site has become.

On July 28 2011 19:09 BarneyEX wrote:
I believe teamliquid should split up the BW and SC2 sections and at least give us an option to remove part of the forums. While I own SC2, I find the ridiculous amount of content extremely annoying as it disrupts my Broodwar viewing as mentioned as the previous pages not to mention the "occasional" SC2 troll that comes in and spoils a proper discussion. Since I'm using the greasemonkey plugin that removes SC2 streams and forum section, I would recommend it to forumers that find the SC2 content annoying.

Despite what people call SC2 is gigantic success, I play on the SEA servers and they are practically dead.

On July 28 2011 19:10 Brad` wrote:


No, I want the people that ask us to not generalize the sc2 community to not generalize the bw community in the very next line.

It was indeed really disappointing to see over that MSL thread what a stubborn angry and hateful bunch the SCBW community on this site has become.

Well too bad then. I know I have very little sympathy for the people with openly expressed hostility towards the majority of our community, and value the interests of people who love and follow both games, or the people who just follow one without hating the other much higher.

On July 28 2011 19:27 doubleupgradeobbies! wrote:

I think the general consensus is that the SC2 section is for SC2, and BW section is for BW. If it is TL's position that it's perfectly fine to take sc2 to bw forums, then so be it. [....] The hostility is a reality of the current situation, until you make it clear that either this hostility is unacceptable, or that the BW section should remain for BW, the current situation will continue.

On July 28 2011 19:43 Sawamura wrote:


i dont have the report button though...

On July 28 2011 17:49 ffreakk wrote:


Edit: Sawamura post similar content in his post, i didnt read it before hand. Apologies.. I ll leave my message since its still largely relevant.

I disagree with the Mods' reasoning on this one.

It seemed to me that people that came to the MSL threads with things like "Hopefully these guys will move on to SC2" are accepted as fine. In fact, you yourself said that theres nothing wrong with people wanting the best player to play their game. And i see where you are coming from.

But i disagree with it. Following the grandmother's funeral analogy, if your friend come to your grandmother's funeral, and speak publicly in front of everyone: "Wow man, lets party hard with all that inheritance u get ok?". This idiot is only concerned about his own well-being, and being concerned with oneself isnt wrong.

But there is a time and place for everything. Neither the funeral or in front of everybody that are mourning is the right place. You can easily raw relevance to the MSL thread case.

If they made a thread in the SC2 forums discussing people switching over, im certain the BW crowd wouldnt mind.

I dont understand the part about "one TL community". The BW section is for BW stuffs to be posted, and the SC2 section for SC2, thats my understanding. For what reason should we have people posting one game's stuffs on the other game's section is beyond me. It doesnt have anything to do with "one TL community" though.

On July 28 2011 08:45 Zato-1 wrote:

BW fans hate SC2, SC2 fans hate League of Legends. The SC2 community has no right to complain about intolerance from the BW community.

On July 28 2011 19:24 ffreakk wrote:


Hey brother, i totally agree w you about SEA server.

I occasionally (last time more than now, 2 games sessions last 2-3 months) played 3v3 w a few my friends to socialise w them (since we are busy and dont have much time to meet up irl).. But it takes upwards of 3 minutes, sometimes about 10 to find a 3v3 game, and very lop-sided games usually (games that go over 10 minutes is a rarity, unless the other guy trolls and float his CC to a corner).

I tried playing 1v1 a little, but it takes a fair amount of time to search for games as well. It wasnt like this last time i tried playing.

Also, i curious as to how much this marketing strategy (~1.5years/expansion) will help them improve from WC3's sucesses.

On July 28 2011 18:03 Ribbon wrote:
This actually happens. Whenever something bad happens in SC2, there are a lot of BW fans claiming vindication as to how this proves SC2 is a failure and they were right for supporting BW unlike the easily-distracted rubes. And every now and then there's one in an unrelated thread just kind of randomly declaring SC2 dead because Incontrol is fat or whatever.

On July 28 2011 19:38 zatic wrote:

Expressed hostility towards other individuals on this site is unacceptable and has always been. This is nothing that needs to be made clear.

On July 28 2011 19:41 Plexa wrote:
If you guys have issues with posts made by SC2 people just use your report buttons -.-; I'm sure most of you have it by now.