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On July 29 2011 06:40 Blasterion wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2011 06:35 xbankx wrote:
I think there most of the people on both sides don't care much about the other's game.
There are trolls on both sides tho. BW trolls like to say sc2 takes no skills and if somehow a pro switch to sc2 he is defiled and lose everything. SC2 trolls say stuff about bw dying and bad graphics. But seriously those are just a minority imo. Kinda like A trolls B, C attacks A for trolling, D defends A because they're from the same community, E wanting to defend B and C says something out of line and FGHJKI comes in at starts attacking BCE and causes LMNOP to attack ADFGHIJK and then all hell breaks lose
@_@
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On July 28 2011 06:28 a7choi wrote:
almost all sc2 players on TL don't speak fondly of bw...
Hey that's not true, im a sc2 player right now but i have watched bw since the beginning days with the pringles msl and the 14cc flash period.
SC2 is just newer and funner right now but BW will alwais hold a special place in my heart and i think it is like that for all the people who switched to sc2
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On July 28 2011 06:42 hayata2.0 wrote:I feel its because there are a few ignorant asshats among the SC2 fans who just show up in BW threads and start spouting stuff like how BW dying would be the best thing ever since all the players would switch to SC2 and other stupid stuff like that. These people give the rest of the SC2 fans a bad name, seeing as they're pretty much walking up to someone else's party uninvited, and saying that everyone should leave and come to their party cause this party sucks and theirs newer and better. Of course the guys that like the original party being intruded upon is going to be hostile towards those guys. Of course, they probably don't know better and don't know that they're stepping on people's toes, but that just speaks to their ignorance and insensitivity. There's not as much going the other way seeing as the diehard BW fans tend to have the SC2 forums minimized in the sidebar and don't even look at them. 
I tend to agree with this statement apart from the last part,
I feel that just like in anything, People will hate on the next starwars, the next stargate, you name it, i am a hardcore to die for broodwar fan still following the scene as strong as ever, going to bed falling asleep to BW vods and i follow sc2 very heavy too,
Starcraft current trivia :
A lot of broodwar players get angry that starcraft 2 players tend to not realise how much easier sc2 was then BW which in turn annoys the starcraft 2 players,
Then the sc2 players will argue that this is a diffrent game, to which the bw players will argue that how can it be so diffrent if its from orginal sc1,
starcraft 2 players will argue that flash wouldn't come over and dominate everything, how could he?? where starcraft 1 players will argue that all the best sc2 players were bad starcraft 1 players (and by bad i mean at the point in which they swapped over)
And the cycle of childish kiddys continue. Just dont get too into it, 
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On July 29 2011 07:15 Darkren wrote:Show nested quote +On July 28 2011 06:28 a7choi wrote:
almost all sc2 players on TL don't speak fondly of bw... Hey that's not true, im a sc2 player right now but i have watched bw since the beginning days with the pringles msl and the 14cc flash period. SC2 is just newer and funner right now but BW will alwais hold a special place in my heart and i think it is like that for all the people who switched to sc2
Not just former BW players, i never played BW except for the campaign and some custom games. I still have major respect for the game and don't mind watching it from time to time.
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On July 28 2011 06:26 Eternal Dalek wrote:
Anyway, does anyone know where I can buy SC + BW cheap and legal? It's $19.99 on Battle.net.
Why do you ask a question and then answer it yourself right after?
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On July 29 2011 05:12 yeti wrote:Show nested quote +On July 28 2011 08:23 humanimal wrote:On July 28 2011 07:48 yeti wrote:On July 28 2011 06:53 Lucumo wrote:On July 28 2011 06:42 hayata2.0 wrote:There's not as much going the other way seeing as the diehard BW fans tend to have the SC2 forums minimized in the sidebar and don't even look at them. Exactly + Show Spoiler + The biggest criticism I have toward web format is the TLPD search bar now defaults to SC2, and you cant change the default. Not anything against SC2 itself, but it is certainly annoying to remember when looking up stats and names, and that frustration is often directed toward the SC2 influx. A nice thing that I've found is if you use the search bar at the top, it'll list both SC2 and BW results and you can just click the right one. Essentially it'll be the same as the TLPD, but combined. Hopefully that'll save you some annoyance ;D As for the OP, I think it's mostly just when people try to impose SC2 onto BW in such a way that's offensive, annoying, or rude. But for the most part, BW players are kind enough to just ignore/avoid SC2 if they don't agree with it. There's a good number of players who do play both however (myself included) EDIT: What a frickin waste of my 100th post =_= Yes kinda, but the top search bar only works for players not maps or teams. Like I said it isnt a big deal, the problem is that I have to relearn the muscle memory, which is part of the reason I cant switch to SC2. I still want to build probes with P. Lord knows how ridiculously stupid it is to press the most obscure button on the keyboard 100+ times a game, but I've been doing it for 10 years now, and I don't want to change. + Show Spoiler [long ramble I don't want to delete] +
What BW worries about is becoming obsolete. Yes SC2 is really close to BW, but it just isnt. Especially when I look at the 'E-Sports' scene. BW has Kespa, tradition, long line of players–both veteran and rookie, and deep history. Because it didn't go through Kespa,SC2 'E-Sports' feels like a cheap start-up. Excluding players like Boxer, Nada, July, Zergbong, ect. SC2 didn't inherit any of BW's traditions or character. And when I watch the cross-over players, it doesn't feel like I am watching the real boxer (Even later Boxer who still nuked Killer in PL). It feels like I am watching an imitation, and every time I watch SC2 boxer, a little of old BW boxer is diminished. Don't get me wrong, SC2 needed boxer and nada to boast their ethos, but hardcore BW fans still see it as a threat to their traditions. For example, every time someone talks about Boxer on the SC2 forum, they seem to have the shallowest of understanding, most of which they picked up from Tasteless, or Day[9].
What is even worse, is the success of lesser BW players who have made the switch. The best SC2 players atm are MVP, Iron, and Zergbong. MVP, who holds the 2 GSL titles, but was a woongjin terran, who made it to the MSL Ro8 once, beat Flash once, and managed a 40% winrate. Iron was a MBC rookie who showed a little promise, but definitely wasn't at MC levels. And Zergbong, well he was a player alright... None of these guys were incredible in BW, but they all manage to dominate SC2. A lot of BW fans say "if Flash makes the switch to SC2, he would destroy everyone." But it wouldn't be overnight, and how would we feel if Flash (who is in god mode right now) lost to Zergbong or TheBestFou. Would Flash's Starcraft achievements be reduced because he could not make the switch to SC2? Would anyone even remember his BW career?
When SC2 was still in beta, I hoped that the transition to SC2 would be smooth. All of the sudden one day, OSL and MSL would become SC2, proleague would crossover, and everything would be conserved. But, after the whole Kespa fiasco, SC2 no long exists in a continuum with BW. Instead BW stands a chance to die and be forgotten. And if it can happen to BW, it will happen to SC2. All of its achievements made obsolete by an upgrade in technology.
***Note: Sorry started rambling as I am ought to do. I am sure everything above has been stated before.
Of course the real reason I can't stand SC2 is: MBC commentators speaking a language I cant understand > all english commentators.
Then don't... there's custom keybinds.
I had a very big issue at launch w/o my F2-Fx keys. (btw, i love F5-F8) and actually played several months without base hotkeys in protest of the absolutely terrible default camera keys.
* And I'm still having trouble adjusting to using q as my patrol.
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On July 29 2011 02:14 tripper688 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2011 02:09 Binabik wrote:lol Gann1, your edit really saved you  I don't think anything will change until Bisu/Jaedong/Flash change games and the "sc2 is a game for noobs"-arguments stop (whether they are right or wrong). It really reminds me of balance discussions on the sc2 forum xD I think there's a pretty big difference in saying "SC2 is a game for noobs" vs "There is a higher density of RTS skill in BW." People saying the former are basically trolling/venting. People saying the latter are making a fairly objective observation. The two should not be confused although some may take the latter as a slight and interpret it as the former. Just look at the Intrigue article.
I would say SC2 is ONLY about RTS skill. BW's RTS skill = SC2's RTS skill, but where the games differ is that mechanically, BW is a much harder game, which is why the different between me and Bisu in terms of skill is much much much higher than the difference between me and MC.
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Are you sure the link is right?
That's a thread tracking the player base of various regions between seasons?
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Hahaha, nice find.
Especially
On July 28 2011 11:11 R3demption wrote:This. No surrender, no mercy.
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I'm not sure why you're surprised by this? There's probably a million Call of Duty "hardcore gamers" making fun of people who play Pokemon or whatever. People like feeling superior even when it's a dumb thing to feel superior about.
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I love both games and I love players from each competitive scene. It saddens me when i see good games lose value because of some immature comments.
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this came to thought: difference between sc2 and bw is quite simple.
one is a car with basically the latest technology available like ABS, AYC, 4WD, dual clutch box, TCS, etc. and the other with none of these.
one enables one to drive around a track the fastest way possible without worrying about small stuff like locking your breaks and over speeding into a corner, throttle control and whatnot. without these technology, its all up to the driver on how to compensate for those.
some likes one over the other, some likes both and see it as just two different type of cars.
and in this world, people do give props to those who can drive fast in a car without said technology to assist the driver.
sc2 is like the new GTR while bw is like the old F40. both cars are awesome in their own right, they're two different kind of beasts however, there are factual differences to say one is better than the other but that all depends on what context.
love both goddammit!
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On July 29 2011 01:58 Blasterion wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2011 01:52 ffreakk wrote:On July 28 2011 23:34 supernovamaniac wrote:On July 28 2011 23:33 Achromic wrote:On July 28 2011 06:27 puppykiller wrote:
No one I know is hostile to ppl who are switching from sc2 to BW. Most hostility i notice is directed towards ppl who know absolutely nothing about BW trying to talk about the game like they play it everyday. Yeah this. New Starcraft 2 players who argue against long time BW players thinking they are on equal grounds pisses me off the most. Equally, there are those who bash at SC2 without actually trying out the game. I dont know man.. I was under the imperssion that most of the Starcraft (Brood War) fans would be curious, if not excited about SC2, so most of them should have tried already.. Even if there are people who havnt tried out Sc2, they should be few and far between. BW folks think they're better because supposedly their game has a bigger skill ceiling (up to debate) Because they think no autocasting, no multibuilding selection, no auto mine, no 255 unit selection limit makes them better players ( up to debate) and bash SC2 because they refer to it as a watered down game.(up to debate)
Are you serious? Please go watch a FPVOD of a professional BW player and try to tell me that "BW has a bigger skill ceiling = up to debate". SC2 is just much easier from a mechanical point of view. Now I agree that blanket statements like "SC2 takes no skill", "SC2 is a game for noobs" are extreme but please try to understand why many BW players are critical of SC2. Because of the lower skill ceiling many people do not see the professional SC2 players in the same caliber as today's professional BW players.
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I love both these games. Please don't become like Halo vs COD fans. We don't need this.
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I'm not a fan of SC2 and I have quite a bit of disdain for the SC2 scene for my own reasons, but I'd like to say that I want to let it go because it's not good to have such a split fanbase. For that to happen, the trolls would have to go away so there really wouldn't be any new reasons to dislike SC2.
If both scenes are still intact by then, I think it could happen in 1-2 years. Hopefully it will, this divisiveness isn't very good for the forum.
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Theres nothing wrong with keeping the scenes split. You come to post in the BW sections, show respect toward BW and don't be an ass and vice versa. For those that only care about 1 scene, we don't even check the other forum so it doesn't matter. Those that want to be a part of both just need to tread carefully.
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On July 29 2011 09:50 writer22816 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2011 01:58 Blasterion wrote:On July 29 2011 01:52 ffreakk wrote:On July 28 2011 23:34 supernovamaniac wrote:On July 28 2011 23:33 Achromic wrote:On July 28 2011 06:27 puppykiller wrote:
No one I know is hostile to ppl who are switching from sc2 to BW. Most hostility i notice is directed towards ppl who know absolutely nothing about BW trying to talk about the game like they play it everyday. Yeah this. New Starcraft 2 players who argue against long time BW players thinking they are on equal grounds pisses me off the most. Equally, there are those who bash at SC2 without actually trying out the game. I dont know man.. I was under the imperssion that most of the Starcraft (Brood War) fans would be curious, if not excited about SC2, so most of them should have tried already.. Even if there are people who havnt tried out Sc2, they should be few and far between. BW folks think they're better because supposedly their game has a bigger skill ceiling (up to debate) Because they think no autocasting, no multibuilding selection, no auto mine, no 255 unit selection limit makes them better players ( up to debate) and bash SC2 because they refer to it as a watered down game.(up to debate) Are you serious? Please go watch a FPVOD of a professional BW player and try to tell me that "BW has a bigger skill ceiling = up to debate". SC2 is just much easier from a mechanical point of view. Now I agree that blanket statements like "SC2 takes no skill", "SC2 is a game for noobs" are extreme but please try to understand why many BW players are critical of SC2. Because of the lower skill ceiling many people do not see the professional SC2 players in the same caliber as today's professional BW players.
There you have it. Tell me if you agree that "SC2 takes no skill" aren't you trolling the SC2 Community? Aren't you provoking flame wars? Aren't you trying to create hostility between the communities?
SC2 is a easier game mechanically, so you shift your mechanic apm to something else, like multitasking. You're basically telling me that Automatic Cars are for Noobs, and that I should go drive a stick shift
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On July 29 2011 10:19 Blasterion wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2011 09:50 writer22816 wrote:On July 29 2011 01:58 Blasterion wrote:On July 29 2011 01:52 ffreakk wrote:On July 28 2011 23:34 supernovamaniac wrote:On July 28 2011 23:33 Achromic wrote:On July 28 2011 06:27 puppykiller wrote:
No one I know is hostile to ppl who are switching from sc2 to BW. Most hostility i notice is directed towards ppl who know absolutely nothing about BW trying to talk about the game like they play it everyday. Yeah this. New Starcraft 2 players who argue against long time BW players thinking they are on equal grounds pisses me off the most. Equally, there are those who bash at SC2 without actually trying out the game. I dont know man.. I was under the imperssion that most of the Starcraft (Brood War) fans would be curious, if not excited about SC2, so most of them should have tried already.. Even if there are people who havnt tried out Sc2, they should be few and far between. BW folks think they're better because supposedly their game has a bigger skill ceiling (up to debate) Because they think no autocasting, no multibuilding selection, no auto mine, no 255 unit selection limit makes them better players ( up to debate) and bash SC2 because they refer to it as a watered down game.(up to debate) Are you serious? Please go watch a FPVOD of a professional BW player and try to tell me that "BW has a bigger skill ceiling = up to debate". SC2 is just much easier from a mechanical point of view. Now I agree that blanket statements like "SC2 takes no skill", "SC2 is a game for noobs" are extreme but please try to understand why many BW players are critical of SC2. Because of the lower skill ceiling many people do not see the professional SC2 players in the same caliber as today's professional BW players. There you have it. Tell me if you agree that "SC2 takes no skill" aren't you trolling the SC2 Community? Aren't you provoking flame wars? Aren't you trying to create hostility between the communities?
"Now I agree that blanket statements like "SC2 takes no skill", "SC2 is a game for noobs" are extreme"
i think you misread what he said.
if you're talking about bw vs sc2 pro, he did say bw is more mechanically challenging, which is correct. but i'd like to add, sc2 pros aren't credited much by bw people because they didn't do so well in bw.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/hDfOI.png)
