|
On October 25 2010 05:50 Stratos_speAr wrote:
Don't talk about what you don't know about. Blizzard cared once KeSPA tried to make money off of the Blizzard IP - they weren't trying to before then.
Making doesn't necessarily mean profit. The money to run this complex scene has to come from somewhere, Proleague could be any game and it still would require money to be run. I assume by 2007 the costs had increased to the point where this was a step to take the financial burden off the sponsors and keep BW alive, rather than the sponsors just giving up.
On October 25 2010 16:16 LaughingTulkas wrote:
Could someone explain to me (and use small words so I can understand) why Kespa can't just give Blizzard what they want? Maybe it's not 100% "fair" because they are the ones who built ESPORTS but Blizzard did build the game that made it possible. Would it be so hard to just give Blizzard what they wanted and then just get on with Proleague? (serious question, these threads get so long so fast with so many different opinions I don't think I really get it.)
Because Blizzard didn't accept licensing fee's they want more control than just fee's paid, and the want the shitty GSL broadcast ahead of Proleague despite not earning any right to, as well as may other terms they decided they wanted.
The fact that a game developer made a game so all money involved should go in some way towards them is just wrong if we want to develop a true eSports scene. KeSPA wanted money from broadcasters because they pay for the teams involved and they find the sponsors, seems reasonable. They are not charging money for Starcraft itself, and Blizzard has nothing to do with competitive play other than they made the game. A license fee is fair but the extent of their demands was ridiculous.
|
On October 25 2010 14:34 maybenexttime wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2010 05:44 leakingpear wrote:As for whether it's a far leap to go from broadcasting to distributing copies, the issue isn't the broadcasting, it's the charging for the broadcasting, thus why it all started in 2007. I'm not sure if KeSPA ever reneged on the charging fees thing, you'd think they would but again I don't think anyone knows (unless i've missed something).
I think Blizzard probably think that taking control of approving and disallowing events and leagues (including individual leagues) is more of an attempt to avoid this in the future, but there probably is a case for the lord of the rings-esque no one entity should have that much power argument. I think it's one of those things that people will tend to extrapolate to some grandiose idea of holding back eSports becoming mainstream though, people love slippery slope arguments. If that was the case, then why didn't blizzard interefere and start the "negotiations" when OGN tried to charge for watching OSL live or when MBC started charging for VODs (not sure if they still do)? That was way before 2007.
Well because one is charging for produced content and another is charging for a license to produce content on a product KeSPA doesn't own? If you don't get the gigantic difference between those two I don't really know how else to explain it.
On October 25 2010 16:25 ffreakk wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2010 07:37 leakingpear wrote:On October 25 2010 07:15 toadstool wrote:On October 25 2010 07:04 maybenexttime wrote:
Exactly, the reason why KeSPA broke the NDA was because the vast majority of people were giving blizzard a HUGE benefit of a doubt - including most of the current KeSPA/BW supporters. I know I did.
In blizzard's best inerest was keeping those demands secret because their fans trusted them while they were already fed up with KeSPA's shenanigans. Blizzard took advantage of our trust. You're just making up conclusions to support your arguments. Honestly it's not worth the effort, for every one person you convince not to reinforce their assumptions with more assumptions and opinions, there's 5 more posts that completely ignore you because they really don't want to have to think, they just want to express their adolescent rage. Apparently getting angry in BW lawsuit threads is the new nu-metal. Of course, replying to an argument with patronizing comment and not a shred of logic is mature, and convincing? If you want to make a point, provide others with a reason to do so, rather than "its not worth the effort" because if its that you think, PM the other guy instead of littering the thread with garbage useless comments. You guys who believe in Blizz are only trusting them.. I have yet to see any arguments in Blizz's defence as to why them being in control would be a Good thing for e-Sports.. Only form of pro-Blizz arguments so far: talking down on Kespa's mistakes to make Blizz look good. Just to reiterate some points from my side (there are way more) 1/ Blizz has no experience (horrendous maps) 2/ No intention of supporting competitive play (no LAN support.. and they claims on WoW tourneys lols) 3/ They already affect players negatively (teams disbanding T_T)
Thanks for conveniently ignoring the entire page of incredibly in depth posts on the previous page, only for another person to do the exact same thing of passing opinion off as fact that the entire page of indepth posts was about.
I'm really done with this thread as any time I try to counter this inane vitriol with a logical and unbiased approach I get a reply refuting me that not only makes little grammatical sense, it's just more creating facts out of thin air to support their opinions. Honestly I don't really get why everyone is being so close minded about an issue they have no control over and where both sides are nowhere close to heroes.
|
Nice politically correct interview..
However, pretending to care about SC1 and promising tournaments is really not cool when it's obvious they don't actually care
|
On October 25 2010 19:34 leakingpear wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2010 14:34 maybenexttime wrote:On October 25 2010 05:44 leakingpear wrote:As for whether it's a far leap to go from broadcasting to distributing copies, the issue isn't the broadcasting, it's the charging for the broadcasting, thus why it all started in 2007. I'm not sure if KeSPA ever reneged on the charging fees thing, you'd think they would but again I don't think anyone knows (unless i've missed something).
I think Blizzard probably think that taking control of approving and disallowing events and leagues (including individual leagues) is more of an attempt to avoid this in the future, but there probably is a case for the lord of the rings-esque no one entity should have that much power argument. I think it's one of those things that people will tend to extrapolate to some grandiose idea of holding back eSports becoming mainstream though, people love slippery slope arguments. If that was the case, then why didn't blizzard interefere and start the "negotiations" when OGN tried to charge for watching OSL live or when MBC started charging for VODs (not sure if they still do)? That was way before 2007. Well because one is charging for produced content and another is charging for a license to produce content on a product KeSPA doesn't own? If you don't get the gigantic difference between those two I don't really know how else to explain it.
They charged OGN/MBC for ProLeague, which is predominantly their product. It's you who does not get that. KeSPA never charged for broadcasting StarCraft, which is what you're implying...
There is no "gigantic difference" between charging for ProLeague (KeSPA product more or less) and charging for MSL/OSL (MBC/OGN product) - there is hardly any at all.
|
On October 25 2010 20:50 MidKnight wrote:
Nice politically correct interview..
However, pretending to care about SC1 and promising tournaments is really not cool when it's obvious they don't actually care
It really feels like that interview is an insult to one's intelligence.
|
|
|
On October 25 2010 10:41 leakingpear wrote:
lundril for god's sake at least attempt to read the whole thread, it's been stated about a thousand times that this started in 2007 when KeSPA started charging broadcasting rights for Proleague to MBC and OGN, it has nothing to do with SC2 in its origin.
Dude, what you have to realize is the general population is not very intelligent, and don't have the mental capacity to think about things in the logical manner to understand what they read or hear. Basically stupid people will always be stupid. As you said u convince one person who just didn't understand and then 5 more morons come out of the woodwork and ignore what you just said.
|
On October 25 2010 17:10 toadstool wrote:
But your points are shaky in themselves:
1/ The maps will get better, this a broad subject. I doubt KESPA released awesome maps straight off the bat.
2/ WoW is competitive play. They ARE supporting competitive play, look at their balancing team and the GSL.
3/ This could be seen two-fold; either Blizzards fault for not working with KESPA or KESPA's fault for not working with Blizzard.
Perhaps we're seeing it in different view points -__________________________-
regarding 1/ and 2/ if you're going to use WoW as an example of competitive play, look at the facts:
1/ WoW arena had not been balanced since around November 2009, none of the later patches did anything significant to the classes, (that awful Ring of Valor map where spellcasters just mow down everyone cause it's an open map is still used in competitive play) and
2/ Cataclysm/4.0 has broken arena (or the balance of it I assume) to the point where MLG has pulled it out of MLG Dallas -> it's in the post where MLG talks about keeping SC2 in their tournaments
/3 MLG is the only tournament supporting WoW outside of Blizzcon
^ That is Blizzard tournament running for you.
People are pissed off because:
1) They love their Proleague, KeSPA formed and organiszes the BW games, a structure that Blizzard had little part to play in after their last balance patch. You could say they made the game and deserve credit but
2) They made outrageous demands to KeSPA, demands that few would find acceptable in any way, while giving Gretech less demands -> clearly a shot at KeSPA (royalties have been turned down by Gretech/Blizzard)
3) Blizzard are stirring up trouble with KeSPA/OGN/MBC, if I were a player/involved in the BW scene I'd be concerned about its future -> possible jump ship
4) Voicing their concerns on IP rights since 2007 - could be because of KeSPA charging OGN/MBC - convenient for them to point that out. Or it could also be due to Blizzard merging with Activision and future plans of Starcraft II (announcement of development)
Easy enough to interpret their actions -> killing off BW to guide SC2's success, it's so sad that they're doing this to one of their games, and the most successful one at that.
|
Russian Federation4447 Posts
We just want to protect our IP rights.
Ultimately, we want to protect our IP rights
we need acknowledgment of the IP rights.
In the middle that is that IP rights must be protected
Also, Blizzard has no plan to get any monetary gains through the IP rights negotiation process. Didn't you see in Gretech's announcement, that all monetary gains will be donated to charities?
WTF Blizzard causing a big scene about.
They walk into the proscene, take a big giant shit over the sc1 scene, wipe their asses and flush it all down the toilet. Giant Cacks.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
