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Aru,
I think you are talking about Davit, he became famous for how bad his interview was. It was hilarious, and just goes to show that there is less control without kespa involved.
One key difference between GSL/Kespa interviews is that players are more willing to speak about their chances, and simply do not say the same old bs.
I will train really hard
I will do my best
Please cheer for me
etc etc etc
Those 3 phrases above cover 80 percent of what players say in interviews.
I do not know how to talk to you about this since you have not watched the GSL interviews, nor have you watched the Artosis broodwar interviews.
I tried to find the interview that Artosis did with Really from Estro, but scforall seems to be down. In it he is constantly shocked by how frank Really was. Actually answering his questions instead of repeating the same ole bs. This was so rare, so rare.
Check it out, it is all I can say.
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Also, Nada and Boxer were in all but name retired already. They get another kick at the can, how can that be anything but a good thing? You act as if a second chance, however short, is worse then no chance at all? I cannot understand how that makes sense.
That is a good thing, I'm agreeing with Matoo's post. Sorry if I wasn't clear.
Wom,
You have a point, but I disagree. When you look at the NHL, NFL, Premier League, etc, etc there are controversial statements made on a daily basis. So yes, I feel that Kespa is exceptionally strict, and I am very happy to see this change for the good.
I love Broodward, I just hope that it can continue under a compromise. It will take both Blizzard and Kespa to make that happen. However all I see these days is people bitching about Blizzard. It takes two my friend.
NHL, NFL, Premier League, etc aren't Korean. From my impression, its just how most of Asia works. Someone more experienced with these things can clarify but most Kpop singers, for example, are treated in similar ways, if not worse, than the current crop of Brood War players: they generally don't say anything extremely controversial and even some singers aren't allowed to own mobile phones.
Pretty certain when big money Korean companies start putting money into these teams, its going to end up being the same. It already is pretty sterile besides a small number of progamers bitching about zerg being the weak race or whatever.
The beginnings of Brood War, heck even two years ago, were fairly lively. The guys from the past tended to be fairly personable and even recently guys like Rock, FBH, Chalrenge, and Zeus have shown that they have real character. Nothing has changed, FBH can still dance and Rock can continue to embarrass himself if he really wants to.
Ignoring Kespa influencing the players, I think a lot of the current Brood War players are just naturally...normal and boring. Jaedong and Flash aren't angry nerds like Idra is, they're pretty modest, quiet guys from the impression most people give.
Also I imagine most don't say anything because of the community backlash you tend to get from these comments or actions. Stork said some pretty rough stuff about Kwanro in an interview and got quite a bit of backlash from the community for rolling with the punches.
The point is there are a lot of other factors besides Kespa being all controlling and evil. Kespa is shit but there are reasons for the sterile nature of the proscene besides Kespa; no one is stopping FBH from saying shit and dancing that Abracadabra hip dance but most don't because its embarrassing.
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if they get different questions they will give different answers...
i mean what do you expect them 2 say if they ask them "how far will you go" blablalb "how much did you prepare" and shit like that.
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I hope There will still be english broadcast if Ongame gets the rights to GSL2
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Rasers, that is true, they do get different questions in the GSL. I guess primarily due to the fact that the questions originate from western cultures (via the forums) and from Artosis as well.
However, GomTv allows them to be asked. Repeat that to yourself as guess what, GomTv is a Korean company. Why then does Kespa not do the same?
To me Kespa strikes me as a massive control freak, they always have. Remember the ppp incident?
I have to wonder, if Blizzard had made the deal with Kespa, and GomTv had never had the chance to get back in the game, would these questions ever be asked? If your answer is no, then you begin to see my point.
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On October 13 2010 14:11 Varbind wrote:
Nem, please point out where I talked about slavery, practise time or anything along that line. What misinformation are you referring to? Do you actually read my posts?
I will repeat it again, what I don't like is how controlled the players are. They have to give the answers to interviews that are expected of them. It makes them all seem the same, and it is hard for them to really differentiate themselves.
I really like in the GSL that players feel more free to speak their minds, and it is far more interesting to me.
Please, please refute my point, and not some preconception that you already have in your head.
Oops sorry, I was just so fed up with those kind of post that I was referring to. But your post is still misleading.
They players are not controlled in any way at all. They can answer any interviews however they want. Maybe, you should read some of the interviews. In general, the players are just more humble than foreigners. Source your claims please, before you start talking about stuff that you haven't been following.
You know what I'll give you a source for interviews that you can read up on:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=155755
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=140735
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=139467
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=129497
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=141244
AND FINALLY I HAVE A REASON TO WAKE UP EARLY AGAIN, I was beginning to have withdrawals checking the calendar every day 
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progamers have to watch what they say because they are likely to reappear on air. when there are gamers who have staying power in the SC2 tournaments, do you really believe they will not spout the same old bs?
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if the SCII players would be under a contract of a professional team no.
if the SCII players dont have a contract with a pro team yes.
but that is not about kespa its normal its everywhere like that when u have pro teams.
aftergame interviews are always boring will always be boring.
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KeSPA should have just negotiated with blizz to begin with.
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On October 13 2010 13:39 rasers wrote:
yeah yeah sad kids. not like they know what they chose?
if they want 2 have a family( with 16-20 :D) or go 2 college or whatsoever they can do it.
but if they under a contract yes they have to train its with every other professional sport. u have 2 train otherwise ur out end of the story.
and 8-10 hours is not even much... its a "normal" work day like some office job or whatsoever but instead u play starcraft
also after 5789349858934589435 interviews u will become a robot in this interviews because 99% u have 2 answer the same stuff over and over again.
but yeah. GSL is awesome . bring them back to the good old eat ramen only be scared to not get enough money 2 make a living WOHO.
It's a good point. I heard an interview with Dwight Howard (top NBA center for the Orlando Magic basketball team) recently. His daily schedule is basically wake up at 6 in the morning, go to the track and run, have a scientifically tailored breakfast, go to the weight room, have a scientifically tailored lunch, go to the basketball court and work on his post moves and shot, have a scientifically tailored dinner, study game film, go to sleep early. If you want to be the best at any competition, you have to totally immerse yourself in the game, because if anyone else does and has as much natural talent as you, and you don't, you're going to get beat.
The interviewer was shocked because we get this idea that NBA players are always fucking around at the casino or whatever, but they only do that during their two week (one month?) off-season unless they are Michael Jordan. But no, to be the best in the NBA it helps to slave away like a Korean Starcraft player.
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On October 13 2010 14:41 Varbind wrote:
Aru,
I think you are talking about Davit, he became famous for how bad his interview was. It was hilarious, and just goes to show that there is less control without kespa involved.
One key difference between GSL/Kespa interviews is that players are more willing to speak about their chances, and simply do not say the same old bs.
I will train really hard
I will do my best
Please cheer for me
etc etc etc
Those 3 phrases above cover 80 percent of what players say in interviews.
I do not know how to talk to you about this since you have not watched the GSL interviews, nor have you watched the Artosis broodwar interviews.
I tried to find the interview that Artosis did with Really from Estro, but scforall seems to be down. In it he is constantly shocked by how frank Really was. Actually answering his questions instead of repeating the same ole bs. This was so rare, so rare.
Check it out, it is all I can say.
I dunno that the Brood War interviews were really that bad. Stork, for instance, has given plenty of golden answers (although some of them have gotten him flack despite being innocuous by American standards... then again Stork seems to have a good perspective about things and not letting the whining public get him down unless people are bothering his girlfriend).
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On October 13 2010 15:00 rasers wrote:
if the SCII players would be under a contract of a professional team no.
if the SCII players dont have a contract with a pro team yes.
but that is not about kespa its normal its everywhere like that when u have pro teams.
aftergame interviews are always boring will always be boring.
Perhaps this is true in Germany?
In America people have gigantic egos so our professional sports players are always running their mouth and generating drama.
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Varbind, you can simply direct me to something that will show me one of these player interviews from the GSL that aren't bound by Kespa. Forgive me if I don't take your word for it. I don't really need to see any other type of interview (re: Really's video).
Also, it's pretty clear why Kespa does not broadcast their games in English: they have nothing to broadcast with--no TV stations nor internet streams. Maybe you should ask OGN and MBC why they don't. Oh, that's right, their primary market is advertising on television with Korean products. I'm sure us folks in the western hemisphere have easy access to these same products!
Gretech's primary source of revenue is from the GOM player and paid internet streams. It makes sense for them to reach out to the international market. They did it with BW for 3ish seasons too, when neither cable companies did.
Yes, Kespa has done a lot of dumb things. Yes, it would be nice if Kespa was less strict. But it is extremely insulting to the players and their fans when you call them "drones". You can hate on Kespa all you want, but don't start shitting on the players.
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On October 13 2010 13:48 aru wrote:Show nested quote +On October 13 2010 13:34 Varbind wrote:On October 13 2010 02:29 leakingpear wrote:
You say that like KeSPA haven't been abusing the eSports movement for years and years now in order to further the companies that constitute it in terms of advertising and even revenue through the PL broadcasting rights issue. The players have been systematically trained to downplay their own efforts and achievements so they don't at any point abuse their celebrity in a way that could upset the systems that KeSPA have created. This is probably the first time in 6 or 7 years that many of these progamers have thought about anything but progressing within the current rigid system, without ever questioning whether the system itself is a good idea in the first place.
The Korean eSports scene thrived because of the combination of celebrity and production values, of which sponsors were needed, but ever since the Boxer boom the balance of power has slowly and steadily swung into a system where players are meant to just be grateful to play for such a venerable and great team and give up everything in order to continue. I suspect the majority of progamers still love brood war, but that doesn't mean they should love the perverted system that just happens to be the only choice, especially when they can have better prospects in a game that's very similar and has the added option of being somewhat undiscovered in terms of strategy.
Also progamers are people, people with lives and not zealots for the great god brood war intent on dying for their cause, as much as you won't want to admit it, brood war is just a game and these kids probably have other ambitions down the road, like going to college, or having a family, or selling fruit.
Wow, this was a fantastic post, thank you! So often people do not consider what it must be like to be one of these drones/progammers underneath Kespa. It has always struck me how robotic they are especially in interviews. They simply have no character/uniqueness. The difference is so notable in the GSL, they have the ability to act normally and are far more animated and actually act like the incredibly young people they actually are. Honestly under Kespa the progammers always reminded me of the athletes from Russia at the olympics.....afraid to say the wrong thing. Yeah, damn Kespa and their robots: Show nested quote +On September 30 2010 03:43 Bwenjarin Raffrack wrote:Thanks for the thread, OP. The problem I have with the new SC2 crowd that make light of Brood War is that they have no idea what it has really accomplished, or what ESPORTS really is. I think what we need to do is clarify once and for all what BW fans mean by ESPORTS. ESPORTS isn't about having tournaments or whose (prize pool) is bigger. ESPORTS is playing video games competitively on television. ESPORTS is being government-sanctioned and culturally-approved. ESPORTS is filling stadiums with thousands of people. + Show Spoiler +ESPORTS is a three-year-old girl being your biggest fan. + Show Spoiler +ESPORTS is growing up to be just like your hero. + Show Spoiler +ESPORTS is a shitty TV drama being made about your lifestyle. + Show Spoiler +ESPORTS is fangirls praying for you in the audience. + Show Spoiler +ESPORTS is celebrating your victory after the big game. + Show Spoiler + ESPORTS is having major pimp cred when you win. + Show Spoiler +ESPORTS is being sexy for your fans. + Show Spoiler +ESPORTS is being a rock star. + Show Spoiler +ESPORTS is idolizing and arguing about your favorite players even when you don't understand a word they say. + Show Spoiler +Is SC2 a successful ESPORT already? Is it going to supplant BW as the ESPORT? Do you think we'll have ESPORTS in the West? Do you think ESPORTS in Korea is irrelevant? Be sure you know what you're talking about before you answer. Edit: Added more.
I had never seen that Hiya picture... I spontaneously yelled "WHAT THE FUCK?!" and my parents heard and got mad.
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Nem, you just assume I have not read those interviews already. To correct you, yes I have read them previous to our conversation. I am a huge BW fan, how could I have not read them? Simply because I do not love Kespa, do not assume I am not a fan of pro BW. It is quite frustrating actually that you keep assuming I am ill informed.
I just get the sense that people are so upset about the chance that pro bw might fail, that they emotionally repond without thinking to anything that does not completely back Kespa at this stage. This makes me very sad. Kespa deserves to be questioned, as does Blizzard.
I just want to repeat one more time that I blame both equally at this stage simply because I do not have enough information to tell who is truly at fault. I suspect both parties just suck myself.
Pry, Stork is my man, he is an exception to the rule. I love his interviews. He actually shows me just how bad most of them are, as he is so refreshing in what he says.
Ok, I am out for the night. Have a good one all
Aru, I can't respond in full, but I never meant to imply that they are drones, but that the Kespa rules they must obey make them appear to be drones. I was not attacking the players, but simply the rules Kespa creates. Hope that helps. Night again.
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On October 13 2010 11:49 Captain Peabody wrote:Show nested quote +Oh I don't know... maybe the fact that they straight out said they don't want team leagues? Okay, this is crap. Remember the interview with the GOM guy that TL did? Show nested quote +It's not just gold and tennis that we looked at. We took ideas from many different sports. Even though e-sports comprises of games where a lot of players participate, like FPS games, I think RTS games are individual games. Even though there are teams in proleague, each match is individual. It's not like baseball or soccer(football) where you get a specific position and work with your team. If you cheat on an individual game, you lose, but in a team game, you still have a chance, if your teammates play well. That's why we made GSL an individual league. Also, there are political reasons. We could make team leagues too if the gaming teams all participate, but we're still in negotiation with the association, and this may take a long time. Although it is an individual league right now, we have the intentions to change the format to incorporate the teams somehow. Edit: Source: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=142000Second Edit: Oh, look; http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=160122
I figured it was crap. Everybody kept citing some random article from way back when that they were too lazy to find about Blizzard not wanting teams. They probably just don't want to deal with a Kespa-like intermediary.
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On October 13 2010 14:55 Varbind wrote:
Rasers, that is true, they do get different questions in the GSL. I guess primarily due to the fact that the questions originate from western cultures (via the forums) and from Artosis as well.
However, GomTv allows them to be asked. Repeat that to yourself as guess what, GomTv is a Korean company. Why then does Kespa not do the same?
To me Kespa strikes me as a massive control freak, they always have. Remember the ppp incident?
I have to wonder, if Blizzard had made the deal with Kespa, and GomTv had never had the chance to get back in the game, would these questions ever be asked? If your answer is no, then you begin to see my point.
Flash got asked if he watched porn once, and of course he denied it. However, the questions asked of players aren't nearly as controlled as you think they are. See.
Another thing you need to understand is that it is pointless to ask challenging questions to progamers, who will almost always be polite and conservative in their interviews. Their answers are not guided by any KeSPA policy, but from what is expected of them by their fans and their teammates. Having a good reputation is very important to these players.
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On October 13 2010 15:24 Varbind wrote:
Nem, you just assume I have not read those interviews already. To correct you, yes I have read them previous to our conversation. I am a huge BW fan, how could I have not read them? Simply because I do not love Kespa, do not assume I am not a fan of pro BW. It is quite frustrating actually that you keep assuming I am ill informed.
I just get the sense that people are so upset about the chance that pro bw might fail, that they emotionally repond without thinking to anything that does not completely back Kespa at this stage. This makes me very sad. Kespa deserves to be questioned, as does Blizzard.
I just want to repeat one more time that I blame both equally at this stage simply because I do not have enough information to tell who is truly at fault. I suspect both parties just suck myself.
Pry, Stork is my man, he is an exception to the rule. I love his interviews. He actually shows me just how bad most of them are, as he is so refreshing in what he says.
Ok, I am out for the night. Have a good one all
No because you're wrong. No one is defending Kespa here, its just because literally that's how most Korean progamers are: they're normal, boring people who just so happen to like playing computer games (nerds that play computer games all day are boring people? what's new?). There are still people who give decent interviews and act out but most don't because guys like Best find doing ceremonies to be embarrassing and people like Stork have noticed that saying shit isn't worth the potential backlash from netizens.
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This is all such miserable news. If even half of those rumors are true BW really is dying and that is just heartbreaking. I'll never ever be as passionate and excited about SC2. I'll never go nuts with anger or exultation after watching a game. This feeling would never happen to fans in other realms. Sports don't just die. SC2 has been a tragedy.
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I'll admit I was wrong in thinking that BW wouldn't be phased quite this much by SC2. I sorta assumed the players would be a bit more loyal to BW but it looks like SC2 gutted all of the less accomplished pros, and the ones that were past their prime in BW.
Flash and Jaedong are godly players but they can't keep BW alive on their own.
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