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I dont have the time nor the motivation to read all topics and all BW related articles. Is there someone who could summarize for me why BW should die? Is it the same kespa vs blizzard thing or is it due to that teams and player seem to move over?
I love BW and dont really like sc2 that much. But it still would be fun to see all those huge players and persoanl favourits play sc2.
I think about that roumor of the big player that got a offer from a company. If its Jaedong he could take it. I think JD feels he have won alot in BW and atm he cant seem to touch Flash. If he gets alot of cash to move to SC2 he might see his chance to find motivation to do be great at something new.
I hope its Stork though. Man I want to see how good Stork could get at SC2.
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I understand the sc 1 sadness that these leagues may disappear. But wanting sc2 to fail is really childish and selfish. Blizzard makes great games in comparison to what else is out there so to want them to fail is idiotic. People who hate sc2 strike me as being similar to 80 year olds Irl who hate change. Change can be good.
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god damn. brood war scene has gone downhill 
Good bye!
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Well, that sucks.
I was seriously hoping Kespa/OGN/MBC would stick it out for BW and just try to weather the legal challenges as best as they can. So much for that.
People have been anticipating an SC2 esports scene almost entirely based on what we have here in BW, but it won't last because SC2 can't stand on its own merits as a game, and Blizzard sorely fucked up the logistics such that any "scene" they have is constantly going to be in flux with how they're handling the releases and battlenet.
BW can stand on its own merits, but can't survive between Blizzard's determination that it should die.
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Well i would be sad if it was natural disaster. But i'm not. I'm FURIOUS becouse i know that was remote detonation.
Oh, well. Time to leave teamliquid, netwars and gosugamers, no more time wasting here and there. I dont care about SC2 leagues even if i dont wish them to fail.
GG no RE esport.
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On October 13 2010 20:04 adeezy wrote:
I understand the sc 1 sadness that these leagues may disappear. But wanting sc2 to fail is really childish and selfish. Blizzard makes great games in comparison to what else is out there so to want them to fail is idiotic. People who hate sc2 strike me as being similar to 80 year olds Irl who hate change. Change can be good.
it can be good but just because its from blizzard it doesnt mean it has 2 be good.
i think SCII is terrible but what makes it even worse for me is taht it has fanboys like u "OH LOOK ITS BLIZZARD THE GAME IS GOOD" no matter what they will do. they could make zerglings shit for spreading the creep tumor and u guys would be like "WOW SO GOOD"
and just because other games may be worse it doesnt mean blizzard games have 2 be good.
also who the fuck cares if its childish or selfish? stillt want it to die. took a thing i loved for many many years and i know i will never love a game that much again.
but it will fail anyway :D atleast in the west... so stop dreaming... people wont be like "OH LOOK ITS SCII NOW THEY ARE NO NERDS. GOOD THAT THEY DONT PLAY SOME OTHER GAME CAUSE THAT WOULD MAKE THEM NERDS %)"
mainstream in the west thinks u me everyone here is a freaking fat nerd and SCII wont change anything so stop dreaming.
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On October 13 2010 19:48 Tirr wrote:Show nested quote +On October 13 2010 18:11 aimaimaim wrote:On October 13 2010 17:56 Tirr wrote:On October 13 2010 17:49 writer22816 wrote:
Oh well, if BW dies I will follow the SC2 scene just to see how badly it will fail. That will be fun to see that you completely failed in this statement in like 2 or 3 years. SC2 will fail in 5 or 6 years but it will decline in 2 or 3 years without professional leagues. just like WC3. [...] While SCBW is all about macro and micro [...]
That's so wrong.
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On October 13 2010 20:24 rasers wrote:Show nested quote +On October 13 2010 20:04 adeezy wrote:
I understand the sc 1 sadness that these leagues may disappear. But wanting sc2 to fail is really childish and selfish. Blizzard makes great games in comparison to what else is out there so to want them to fail is idiotic. People who hate sc2 strike me as being similar to 80 year olds Irl who hate change. Change can be good. it can be good but just because its from blizzard it doesnt mean it has 2 be good. i think SCII is terrible but what makes it even worse for me is taht it has fanboys like u "OH LOOK ITS BLIZZARD THE GAME IS GOOD" no matter what they will do. they could make zerglings shit for spreading the creep tumor and u guys would be like "WOW SO GOOD" and just because other games may be worse it doesnt mean blizzard games have 2 be good. also who the fuck cares if its childish or selfish? stillt want it to die. took a thing i loved for many many years and i know i will never love a game that much again. but it will fail anyway :D atleast in the west... so stop dreaming... people wont be like "OH LOOK ITS SCII NOW THEY ARE NO NERDS. GOOD THAT THEY DONT PLAY SOME OTHER GAME CAUSE THAT WOULD MAKE THEM NERDS %)" mainstream in the west thinks u me everyone here is a freaking fat nerd and SCII wont change anything so stop dreaming.
You are everything that is wrong with SC/BW.
And saying SC2 sucks is, by taking an at least a little unbiased look, just wrong.
It is not SC/BW, you can hate it for that, but you can't hate it for being terrible. Because it isn't terrible.
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On October 13 2010 21:48 Velr wrote:Show nested quote +On October 13 2010 20:24 rasers wrote:On October 13 2010 20:04 adeezy wrote:
I understand the sc 1 sadness that these leagues may disappear. But wanting sc2 to fail is really childish and selfish. Blizzard makes great games in comparison to what else is out there so to want them to fail is idiotic. People who hate sc2 strike me as being similar to 80 year olds Irl who hate change. Change can be good. it can be good but just because its from blizzard it doesnt mean it has 2 be good. i think SCII is terrible but what makes it even worse for me is taht it has fanboys like u "OH LOOK ITS BLIZZARD THE GAME IS GOOD" no matter what they will do. they could make zerglings shit for spreading the creep tumor and u guys would be like "WOW SO GOOD" and just because other games may be worse it doesnt mean blizzard games have 2 be good. also who the fuck cares if its childish or selfish? stillt want it to die. took a thing i loved for many many years and i know i will never love a game that much again. but it will fail anyway :D atleast in the west... so stop dreaming... people wont be like "OH LOOK ITS SCII NOW THEY ARE NO NERDS. GOOD THAT THEY DONT PLAY SOME OTHER GAME CAUSE THAT WOULD MAKE THEM NERDS %)" mainstream in the west thinks u me everyone here is a freaking fat nerd and SCII wont change anything so stop dreaming. You are everything that is wrong with SC/BW. And saying SC2 sucks is, by taking an at least a little unbiased look, just wrong. It is not SC/BW, you can hate it for that, but you can't hate it for being terrible. Because it isn't terrible. I'd say it's thoroughly unremarkable.
If it was some random indie game, I would be impressed, but it's buildup and pedigree totally outmatch what it ultimately became. It's lifeblood is just running on momentum and not substance. That won't hold longterm.
OGN/MBCgame is kind of fucked no matter what they do. If they stick with BW, they alienate Blizzard, can't broadcast SC2, and risk losing BW ANYWAY because of the IP challenges. If they concede to Blizzard, destroy BW, and broadcast SC2, their centerpiece for esports is gone and replaced with a mediocre doppelganger that isn't viable for the long run.
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What makes you think something like this?
Just watch some replays from the first weeks of the game and some fresh ones. The game is evolving.
At this time saying it won't hold up is the same as saying that it is clearly the superior game than SC/BW and therefore replaces it. It's just to early to make statements like this.
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ALLEYCAT BLUES51080 Posts
On October 13 2010 22:38 Velr wrote:
What makes you think something like this?
Just watch some replays from the first weeks of the game and some fresh ones. The game is evolving.
At this time saying it won't hold up is the same as saying that it is clearly the superior game than SC/BW and therefore replaces it. It's just to early to make statements like this.
People's expectations are high,I mean look at the amount of hype for the game.I just want people to stop looking at is as "oh its the sequel to the most awesome game in the world and it sucks because i doesn't live up to it" and try taking it as a new game.....
SC2 has potential its what we make of that potential,SCBW is right now a far better game but SC2 has only been explored very little in which is still only a third of the game.
What i'm trying to say is that don't take it as the "sequel to BW" rather as "StarCraft 2" which is a new game.
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Velr you think the game would have even half the player pool if it would have come out with the name "Battle of the Stars" or whatever
The game lives on BWs merits and everyone changing because it got the name SC2
Personally I hate the game and ive tried watching it and playing it but I just cant enjoy it for various reasons... When SC2 kills BW thats it for me gamingwise, and of course it hurts when something new comes in and kills the only game ive loved and played/watched for 10+ years
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On October 13 2010 22:36 SimonB wrote:
I'd say it's thoroughly unremarkable.
If it was some random indie game, I would be impressed, but it's buildup and pedigree totally outmatch what it ultimately became. It's lifeblood is just running on momentum and not substance. That won't hold longterm.
OGN/MBCgame is kind of fucked no matter what they do. If they stick with BW, they alienate Blizzard, can't broadcast SC2, and risk losing BW ANYWAY because of the IP challenges. If they concede to Blizzard, destroy BW, and broadcast SC2, their centerpiece for esports is gone and replaced with a mediocre doppelganger that isn't viable for the long run.
Have you even played SC2 lol? I guess Boxer and NaDa gave up their salaries on their teams to play SC2 with no certain income just because they think the game is so mediocre.
SC2 might not be as great as SCBW yet, but it's so new and not at all figured out yet. I'm having a blast playing it nevertheless and lots of others are aswell. SC2 could definitely hold long term, not saying it will because noone knows that and that includes you.
SC2 is great, SCBW is great but SC2 is the new thing and for your own sake you should learn to love it because SCBW has been declining for the last years. SC2 is kind of the final nail in the coffin it seems even though that obviously is very sad.
You starcraft conservatives should stop boycotting SC2 because it will hurt none but yourselves.
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On October 13 2010 22:52 Husmusen wrote:
Velr you think the game would have even half the player pool if it would have come out with the name "Battle of the Stars" or whatever
No, it would have less. No one is arguing that.
But with the bnet (as lacking as it is atm) and it's gameplay it still could get big. Potential is there, thats all that needs to be there at this point.
I mean... From reading in this tread i got the feeling that, even if there was a better RTS than SC/BW, you guys would not play it because it is not SC/BW and could possibly become the next big thing in Korea.
Your sounding as if someone has stolen your candy...
And as others have said... If there wouldn't be obvious potential not as many Progamers/B-Teamers/Legends would have switched to it, at least not before there even is a Proleague or anything like it.
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Awesome news. The death of SC.
I loved you and you were among the most beautiful things, SC, but your time has passed. There was no budging the Flash/Jaedong status quo, no renewal, no new revolutions to be had.
Now it's the time for rebirth. The stage is set. Let the show commence.
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On October 13 2010 22:59 Valikyr wrote:Show nested quote +On October 13 2010 22:36 SimonB wrote:
I'd say it's thoroughly unremarkable.
If it was some random indie game, I would be impressed, but it's buildup and pedigree totally outmatch what it ultimately became. It's lifeblood is just running on momentum and not substance. That won't hold longterm.
OGN/MBCgame is kind of fucked no matter what they do. If they stick with BW, they alienate Blizzard, can't broadcast SC2, and risk losing BW ANYWAY because of the IP challenges. If they concede to Blizzard, destroy BW, and broadcast SC2, their centerpiece for esports is gone and replaced with a mediocre doppelganger that isn't viable for the long run. Have you even played SC2 lol? I guess Boxer and NaDa gave up their salaries on their teams to play SC2 with no certain income just because they think the game is so mediocre. SC2 might not be as great as SCBW yet, but it's so new and not at all figured out yet. I'm having a blast playing it nevertheless and lots of others are aswell. SC2 could definitely hold long term, not saying it will because noone knows that and that includes you. SC2 is great, SCBW is great but SC2 is the new thing and for your own sake you should learn to love it because SCBW has been declining for the last years. SC2 is kind of the final nail in the coffin it seems even though that obviously is very sad. You starcraft conservatives should stop boycotting SC2 because it will hurt none but yourselves.
because they want 2 show their fans that they still can play a game on top level and win. (boxer said it) and they know it wont happen in BW.
and yes I think its terrible its my opinion i even think Wc3 is far better.
why should i need 2 learn SCII? just because it has Starcraft in its name?
i doubt boycotting SCII will hurt me ... why should it? i dont want 2 see it.
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On October 13 2010 20:23 hitthat wrote:
Well i would be sad if it was natural disaster. But i'm not. I'm FURIOUS becouse i know that was remote detonation.
Oh, well. Time to leave teamliquid, netwars and gosugamers, no more time wasting here and there. I dont care about SC2 leagues even if i dont wish them to fail.
GG no RE esport.
I feel pretty much the same way. SC is dead for me without BW and the proscene. It's a time saver for me at least
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I dont believe that how fans of sc are so ignorant
Heres facts:
1-A lot of pros switching to sc2 already (even #3 player (effort) with quite good contract (it should be good right)) and legends like boxer and nada already qualified for GSL
2- 2 teams have already disbanded, 3rd team on the way, lots of coaches retiring, switching to sc2, working on founding new teams on sc2 and there is no goddamn b-teamer coming on because it is too fucking hard to get any good on sc2 (See point 5)
3-Only 1 individual league instead of usual 2 will be played and it is not certain that there will be a proleague
4-Kespa has no goddamn choice on sc2 because with bnet 2.0, it takes 1 sec to ban players, who play for any other league but gsl and blizzard can sue them making money on their game and shut down kespa too
5-Cool has just won 85k$ and it takes like 1 month of intensive training to qualify for a shot of that money instead of 1 year hardcore training and still got raped. Which one would you choose?
6-And dont fucking say that kespa is good at all. Last year we all remember that what happened to JD and his free agency stuff, (Kespa basically said retire or play with oz, its your choice) yeah kespa is fucking good lol.
7-And OGN is about to get an agreeement with blizzard too so i dont think that demands of blizzard are too harsh and mbc basically said gtfo to blizzard so blizzard has right to say gtfo to mbc imo
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I'm all for IP rights and honestly side with Blizzard on all this. But I have one huge problem and I guess I can completely understand why everyone is so pissed.
There is a reason why SC2 needs to die and BW needs to survive. For eSports to ever be considered 'evergreen' and not just this constantly-in-flux scene full of fads and hype-with-little-substance there need to be games that do not significantly change with time.
Think about it: millions of people turn on the TV to watch Baseball, Football, and Tennis. These games have not changed in hundreds of years and are highly respected. Chess is a very prestigious and technically complex game that is in many ways very similar to Starcraft, but one big difference is that Chess been around in more or less its current form for nearly a thousand years.
People want to be able to compare the Baseball stars of today to those of 50 years ago. People are still interested to see how their team or favorite pitcher will do against the other guys. And the game hasn't changed at all. Why can this be true of other games and not of Brood War?
Maybe we're wrong to think a single video game, or any game or sport anymore, could possibly be respected enough to be played for a thousand years, or even 100 or 50 or 10. Perhaps its just a question of tempo and 'who gets there first'. But I believe if gamers ever want to prove that gameplay and substance can trump shiny graphics and hype, this is where they ought to make their stand. If gamers want to ever earn the respect of the masses, there needs to be an establishment and tradition. And that cannot come if gamers keep cycling to a new game every few years.
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On October 13 2010 22:59 Valikyr wrote:Show nested quote +On October 13 2010 22:36 SimonB wrote:
I'd say it's thoroughly unremarkable.
If it was some random indie game, I would be impressed, but it's buildup and pedigree totally outmatch what it ultimately became. It's lifeblood is just running on momentum and not substance. That won't hold longterm.
OGN/MBCgame is kind of fucked no matter what they do. If they stick with BW, they alienate Blizzard, can't broadcast SC2, and risk losing BW ANYWAY because of the IP challenges. If they concede to Blizzard, destroy BW, and broadcast SC2, their centerpiece for esports is gone and replaced with a mediocre doppelganger that isn't viable for the long run. Have you even played SC2 lol? I guess Boxer and NaDa gave up their salaries on their teams to play SC2 with no certain income just because they think the game is so mediocre.
Indeed. Additionally, they speak highly of SC2. While SC2 still has some rough spots, even the pro players disagree with the fanboys who hate on SC2.
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