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[A]Heartbreak Ridge TvP Side

Forum Index > BW General
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Monokeros
Profile Blog Joined November 2005
United States2493 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-09-20 01:21:14
September 19 2009 08:58 GMT
#1
Heartbreak Ridge
[A] is for Article!



[image loading]



Table of Contents

+ Show Spoiler +

Using Crtl+F or Mac + F you can skip ahead instead of painfully scrolling through each section, be sure to include the [brackets].
    [l] Disclaimer
    [II] Why Heartbreak Ridge
    [III] Map Balance
    [IV] Change of View
    [V] Reality Check
    [VI] For Your Viewing Pleasure
    [VII] Back to the Future
    [VIII] KHAN Special
    [IX] The Others
    [X] Conclusion
    [XI] Thanks!



[l] Disclaimer:


+ Show Spoiler +
  • I am a D level Terran player.
  • I'm not claiming to be the expert on this map.
  • This is simply a detailed analysis done by a lower level player after watching and playing many games of this matchup.
  • Any criticism or correction in my analysis/understanding of a decision made by a better player is welcome
  • The game reviews will be biased in favor of well-known Terrans and Protoss'. The little trains that could that get rolled over by well-known players will not be so treated kindly.
  • My goal for this thread is a better understanding for myself and other Terran players on how this matchup should be played out on this map.
    .



[II] Why Heartbreak Ridge?



      I think its about time we all took a nice detailed look into this map, that for many Terrans has been a thorn in their side for vs Protoss. We'll focus on the pro level, which while is not, I understand not something to be copied mindlessly but read to understand why certain decisions were made and if they were, respectively at that time, right or wrong.



[III] Map Balance


      For starters I'll go on to the dreaded subject of map balance, which has with all controversial maps, been a sensitive topic:
[image loading]

       When I first saw this record, after my many frustrations on this map I scoffed and said that's obviously not a large enough sample, unwilling accept to that a map The Great D Terran such as I was having so much difficulty with vs those Iccup Scrubs, was balanced! So after seeing this balanced number I went to ask the winners, on the Terran side, what is their secret to victory on this map. This is what I was faced with:



[IV] Normal View
[image loading]




Monokeros' View
[image loading]

All of the quotes are referring to the Protoss who lost, not to the Terran player



[V] Reality Check




       After my extremely, judgmental overview of players, which, considering the desperate position I was in, very ungrateful. I painfully came to terms with (at last) no matter how much worse these Terrans or Protosses are from the best of their race, they're a lot better than I am going to be anytime soon. Realizing this I sit back and watch starting with my favorite.



Flash - Lee Young Ho - 이영호



[image loading]            [image loading]
      (T)Flash      VS       (P)Jaehoon
+ Show Spoiler +

      Let's first of all take into account that this is during off-season and in my opinion this places both the players not at their best, but either way the difference in their skills is still well known to those who frequently watch Starcraft matches. I won't be going to quite extensive detail on this match I'll stick to observing each players builds, their decision-making and using the word capitalize a lot, I like that word.
      This match plays out at the start with a simple FD by Flash and a 2 gate goon pressure with Jaehoon. After this initial pressure we see Jaehoon is behind, Flash's expo has started up before his with minimal scv losses and only 2 tanks to jaehoons 6 goons and 3 Zealots. At this point Jaehoon is behind but his expo is safe from a push thanks to his the costly pressure.

      Now skipping the details and moving on ahead we reaches what confuses me, after this is Jaehoon opts for 2 base arbiter. He is currently very behind in tech, eco and unit count. So he throws caution to wind against Flash, a clearly better player, and decides to go heavy teach after such a setback. Flash, with his amazing star sense, knowing he's ahead immediately moves out to capitalize on his advantage before Jaehoon's now running expo kicks in. While this I assume was unknown to Flash the expo had already 'kicked in', but in the form of arbiter tech, setting him behind on unit count and sealing the game.


Take 2


      Out of Flash's 3 wins on Heartbreak (and one loss to Bisu), I chose his win vs Pusan instead of the GOM TV match and the associated VOD is currently sealed away within the depths of GOM's video archive.

[image loading]            [image loading]
(T)Flash      VS       (P)Pusan
+ Show Spoiler +

      Not to take away any credit from Pusan, but lets face it he wasn't the shining star he used to be, and during the Summer of 2009 this didn't change. What also must be taken into consideration is the map is still relatively new in June, so all the plays haven't been, fleshed or 'Flashed' out as to say.

Summary

It begins with Flash walling in and choosing siege expand, while Pusan pressures with one gate range, robo followed by a triple expansion. Pusan with his earlier pressure is ahead but fails to notice Flash's Starport in the corner of his main. Flash's harras allows him to take his 3rd and with his superior macromanagement, intelligent base design and Pusan's risky switch to carriers, take base after base until finally Pusan is weakened enough for him to go in for the kill.




[VI] For Your Viewing Pleasure

I enjoyed the game so much that I decided to do a full on battle report, I would be delighted if you partook in it otherwise the aforementioned summary will suffice for this article.

                                                      + Show Spoiler +

       Flash goes for a wall-in opting for a siege expand, with CC after making only two marines as apposed to his future, and I'm assuming better learned self of the future's FD with no wall, but ~6 marines. Pusan begins to pressure with a one gate range followed by robo and expand still all on one gate. With his pressure effective at a minor loss of one Dragoon and Flash being pressured to repair constantly, Pusan pulls back keeping a nice advantage. Flash unable to scout for any tech goes for ebay setting him back even more, then the screen pans down and we are shown the Starport Flash had started in the corner of his base.

[image loading]


      How Flash wins the game immediately becomes to me clear even after he is faced with a significant setback early on, which after watching am glad I reported in more detail then the Jaehoon game (because I respect Pusan as a player more than Jaehoon). Pusan follows up with getting his 3rd after adding only one gateway and 2 goons to his forces. His swiftness to capitalize on his earlier gained advantages in eco and now tech, he attempts to seal his victory with a seemingly safe expansion. Pusan unfortunately does not see the Starport in the corner of the base and simple sees the armory and is expecting a timed upgrade push from Flash after massing up.

[image loading]


      Confident that his eco advantage will allow him to reign supreme he plods on towards the inevitable. The dropship is out and the harrassing begins, first with Pusan's main. His lack of observers at the start of the drop seems to spell doom for Pusan but an obs pops out right when the vultures zip towards the probes, they would not dine tonight and simultaneously are denied by a pylon wall at the 3rd as well. The daamge was done though and Pusan for a short but crucial moment is running one base. Flash knowing now his damage was enough to allow him to expand safely, delaying and effectively decreasing the Pusan's stopping power of his 3rd, as Pusan was busy recovering.

[image loading]


      Currently only on 4gateways Pusan realizing that with the Starport up Flash is now slightly ahead on tech and goes for Stagate followed by the well recognized Arbiter Tribunal. With a few games of goon and vulture, cat & mouse and mine field laying followed by clearing Pusan expands AGAIN to the mineral only at 12 o'clock, after witnessing Flash's 3rd and being unable to deny or even delay it he opts to be one base ahead, typical Protoss. Flash's superiority in upgrades is displayed when Pusan attempts to use a control group of goons to clear a the mine field set up on the ridge adjacent to Flash's now running 3rd. Flash overcomes the group of goons with his vultures and the vultures now run free, and spring upon their prey, the probes transferring to Pusan's 4th. With nothing but a measly cannon to deny the vultures of their meal they reduce the probes numbers to a measly 4-5, a shot of Pusan shows his frustration, another setback, things were starting to look grim.

[image loading]


      Pumping Arbiters from Two Stargate Pusan prepares to finish this before he set back anymore by Flash's harass. While moving out with a group of Zealots and Dragoons along with a trusty Arbiter they move out to threaten Flash's 3rd base. Flash calls Pusan's bluff with a scan of his meager attack force and a dropship of 4 vultures on Pusan's preparations new expansion in the bottom right corner, adjacent to Flash's base, the plan was foiled. Fed up with this constant battle to defend his advantage Pusan moves in to cripple Flash's army and hopefully his 3rd before he suffers anymore damage from the dreaded Dropship and Vultures. Flash's position on the ridge is too strong and Pusan is forced to allow the madness to continue.

[image loading]

      After throwing a few zealots and a pair of goons the expansion is finally secure, when, suddenly Pusan does to me, the unthinkable he makes four Stargates in a row along with a fleet beacon at his 3rd, where did he have the money for all of this was he this far behind in his macro? Or was he betting all-in on his still remaining advantage, whether the risk was necessary or not Pusan pursues with determination his every so slightly fading victory. Flash moves out with his ball of 2-1 tanks, vultures, goliaths, and dreaded EMP-laden Vessels. Pusan sensing weakness goes to strike down this expansion, if he secures that base even his carriers won't save him. Unfortunately, a triple EMP on Pusan's forces sends him fleeing and in his retreat the screen show his Stargate's flickering, not flashing, as Pusan would have none of that.

[image loading]


       Once again Pusan moves out for blood, and this time with Flash's army defending his fledging 4th things were looking good for Pusan, hopes were high as he pressed forward with, images of burning factories and even a possible GG. He is once again set back by a cleverly placed supply depot and barracks the time it would take him to break that with his army would give Flash time to counter his army. He is once again denied revenge, and we see Flash is prepared for the dreaded recall with turrets lining his base. The Stargates flicked ominously, will they pay off? Probes from Pusan's now dry main transfer to his distant 5th. Flash is sitting comfortable on his now confirmed eco advantage, Pusan's only hope left lying in those flickering lights. Suddenly we are sent to Flash's base a recall in the corner of his base farm from factories and trapped by still mining SCVs, with well placed tanks and buildings, Pusan's recall goes to waste.

[image loading]


      All Pusan has left is a measly Dragoon force, a few Zealots fresh from his gateways and his Carriers. After the failed recall Flash smells a weakened prey and goes in for the kill. The massive 2-2 ball moves onward, onward to the carriers, EMPing and reducing all to blue goo and disintegration along the way.

[image loading]


      Flash scans the carriers, scoffs at their numbers and EMPs. A feeble stasis does nothing to slow the onslaught, the carriers poke out to delay the push but even with the ledge's LOS advantage, and his remaining goon force, Pusan is pushed back by reinforcements from Flash's main.

[image loading]


       He races to defend his mineral expo, but he is too late the probes are slaughtered in control groups another stasis appears to delay the inevitable, a blue spec appears in the upper right corner Flash's victory was in plain view. 4 tanks move in a finish off what is left of the probes final safe haven, Pusan's eco is in tatters his forces only his trusty arbiter and carriers. The ominous 3-2 on the tanks upgrades tolls the bells of the end.

[image loading]


[Indent] In a desperate attempt to return the pain of losing his expansions to Flash, Pusan moves out to destroy the mineral only. We witness a mass of goliath and charon-boosted missiles fill the air. A switch to Pusan's sweating face in contrast to Flash, calm and ready to end this charade. Pusan flailing in defiance of this loss scrambling to recover his expo goes to kill off Flash's corner base but is denied by quick repairs and massive goliath forces. Before the end we are given view through the eyes of the defeater and the defeated, the difference in eco is staggering, Flash low on minerals and true to his name Ultimate Weapon, while Pusan floundering for money his minerals trickling in.

[image loading]


      In Pusan's final breath he destroys Flash's CC in the upper right corner.

[image loading]


      Flash not even needing his whole army to fend off this threat splits his forces to end the game and kill of Pusan's expansions.

[image loading]


       As Pusan fights off the never-ending army of Goliaths, Vultures that had spelled his doom from the start finish off his last running expansion, and with no more money for interceptors Pusan types out.

[image loading]




[VII] Back to the Future



       After that, in my humble opinion, thrilling blast from the past and my obvious Flash fanboyism shining through, we return what now TvP on Heartbreak Ridge has been reduced to for Protoss.
2 Base Arbiter


[image loading]
            [image loading]
(T)UpMaGiC      VS       (P)Rock
+ Show Spoiler +

[image loading]
            [image loading]
(T)Justin      VS       (P)Movie
+ Show Spoiler +


Combined Summary:
       I've decided to combine these two into one summary because the play out the same, albiet one longer than the other. I understand that theres four aren't the greatest, and some may argue they are the worst at this matchup. The fact remains that the Terrans recover from an earlier pressure and the Protoss taking his a lead a bit too far goes with a 2 Base Arbiter. The Terran capitalizes on this huge tech switch and pushes the natural and wins the game there, or as with the case of UpMaGic vs Rock the Terran gains a virtually permanent advantage that leads them to victory. Flash vs Jaehoon was also a 2 Base Arbiter game, but Flash get's his own article, and redundant redundancy is quite redundant.
Proxy Gate into Reaver


[image loading]            [image loading]
(T)fantasy      VS       (P)GuemChi
+ Show Spoiler +

Summary
       Guemchi Proxy Gate's fantasy, overextends himself with a cute cannon gets punished horribly, his proxy reaver is scouted thanks to
      (A)He traps his probe, like the champ he is, and has to build the support bay in his main without a robo bay. Which to fantasy's suprise magically appears when he pushes into Guemchi's defenseless main with his attack force.
      (B) Fantasy than using his superiour star sense goes to the obvious location of the proxy robo bay, defends the reaver harrass effortlessly and the game ends.

[image loading]            [image loading]
(T)fOrGG      VS       (P)Much
+ Show Spoiler +
http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/games/14807_fOrGG_vs_Much/vod

Summary
      Much showing his experience with age doesn't over-extend himself or give away his Proxy Reaver, unfortunately this is to no avail. fOrGG's clever base design and cute/clever Vulture Marine micro, sans mines holds off the proxy Gateway Pressure, leaving Much in the red.
       Capitalizing his triumph fOrGG adds a second factory and moves out making short work of the proxy followed by teasing the crowd with almost discovering the proxy robo. The reaver moves out to cause what would be expected TERRIBLE TERRIBLE damage to an undefended base, but the scarab god has and always will hate Much. After trading worker kills, fOrGG, with his trusty wraith comes out clearly ahead and finishes off our beloved CJ Uncle Toss.



[VIII] KHAN Special



       Yes this section title is a double entendre referring to Special Education and a Menu Special you would see in a restaurant. I think a separate section should be devoted to two of our beloved Dragons and Protosses from Samsung KHAN, Jangbi and Stork.

So I heard you play WoW....

      Whether the rumors were confirmed or just a fun little joke tossed around as an excuse for the current lackaluster play of one of the Golden Mouse possible, OSL Title-Holding, Dinosaur Toss. This game is one that chills me to the core and was one that I laughed my ass off all the way through. Both of the players having their mouths hanging open in their profile picture didn't really help when I was loading the VOD.

[image loading]
            [image loading]
(T)Shine      VS       (P)Stork
+ Show Spoiler +

Summary
      Rather then do a legitimate summary I'd like to post a few pictures focus on part of the VOD, because as they say pictures speak a thousand words. Of course I'll keep on going afterwards just to emphasize on the hilarity of my discover.

+ Show Spoiler [Very Video//Image Heavy] +

[image loading]

Stork shows us some amazing micro...but back on the farm...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVs62UFlxKI&feature=player_embedded#t=11m29s
Shine could have an advantage after that I may or MAY NOT be right

Stork once again showing us some amazing micro in the form of Jangbi-esque storms crushing Shine's push...except for one minor problem.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVs62UFlxKI&feature=player_embedded#t=19m43s

      So what I learned from that match was, if your PvT training partners are (T)firebathero,(T)Miracle, and (T)FrOzean, and you apparently play WoW, this is the result. Not to forget when Shine went over to KTF before he retired to be a coach he was coached like no other.

Carriers and Jangbi
A deadly combination...for who?

[image loading]            [image loading]
(T)Mind      VS       (P)Jangbi
+ Show Spoiler +


Summary
       Let me tell you a story, I used to play protoss and I loved Jangbi and his storms, torn between love and hate was I when he defeated my Terran heroes with his brilliant psionic displays. So I vowed to be like Jangbi, do what Jangbi does, I soon discovered to my dislike. Jangbi does Carriers. Then Jangbi gets done because of said Carriers. What is the first thing, to my pleasant surprise, I see when I clicked on the link to the VOD?
Warning:
The Following Contains Hate Against Jangbi, Samsung KHAN Fan Viewer Discretion is Advised

+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]


Curse you Jangbi, and the Carrier you rode in on

[image loading]


For once I agree with Youtube Comments, and it looks I am not alone

Oh you still wanted a Summary?
       Well I gritted my teeth and watched the match, the youtube comments you just saw just about summed it up. Jangbi was violated by vulture harass while using Carriers. Of course credit goes to Mind for taking down Jangbi, Carriers or not. Let's finish this up.


[IX] The Others




The following get a special mention for sticking to their guns and doing a typical slow-pushing, Ninja Turtle-Terran™, war of attrition that we un-innovative low level players know, understand, use and love.

[image loading]            [image loading]
(T)Leta      VS       (P)Reach
+ Show Spoiler +

Summary:
[image loading]


That about sums up the whole game Leta's 1 Fact Port is to be feared.

[image loading]            
[image loading]

(T)Light      VS       (P)Daezang
+ Show Spoiler +

Summary:
      Daezang goes for a proxy, it gets stuff although he doesn't tech hard and plays it safe with observers after Light controls the whole game with repetitive harass keeping his probe count super low, not allowing him a chance to recover.

[image loading]            [image loading]
(T)Light      VS       (P)Pure
+ Show Spoiler +

Summary:
       Light once again shows amazing control of the game using harass, taking the lead and sticking with it until the end.
Special Mention
At Least your PvZ is good...oh wait......

[image loading]            [image loading]
(T)Mind      VS       (P)Best

       I devote this section to the little SKT1 Protoss that could, Best who gets Two-Facted into the ground, allowing a 3-1 victory for Wemade over SKT1. His recent appearance with his teams B-Teamers on Proleague Map Tests is made a little clearer.
+ Show Spoiler +

Summary:
Two Factories > Two Gate Range
Especially if you expand directly after you make 4 goons with no robo in sight.



[X] Conclusion



      Now this is the place I'd like to wrap this all up, in for some was obvious before they already read this and have already implemented it into their play. The key to success for the Terran's who want to come ahead of a Protoss who uses pressure to gain a nice advantage in the war of attrition on this map is: (2 Base Arbiter and Proxies aside)
+ Show Spoiler +
Drum Roll:+ Show Spoiler +
Dropships!
[image loading]

      In each and every game, as displayed in this wonderful conglomerate of all the dropships, the Terrans who came out victorious all had implemented them into their play. Now understanding that any kind of harass is risky and a huge investment many may be reluctant to use it. Whether you're clever or not with them using dropships to disrupt the Protoss' economy on this map is key, even if you don't get many probe kills if the dropships if floating around it can easily distract the Protoss, disrupt their game flow, allow you to secure your OWN 3rd and an eco advantage all the while keeping them wary of the skies and the ground whenever they move out.


[XI] Thanks!



       I'd like to thank everyone who takes time to read, or even skim part of this article. Doing my best as a lower-ranked player I decided I'd take a break from the daily ladder grind of Iccup and attempt to contribute to the community.
       I'd also like to thank all the authors of all the FE's for inspiration even if this article, to me, isn't FE quality I'd like to be something worth mention.
       And last but not least ICCUP for changing the MOTW from HBRidge the day I finish writing all this up, touche....
Keep the Dream Alive twitch.tv/monokerros
Agavond
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
448 Posts
September 19 2009 09:18 GMT
#2
Wow very fun read and insightful. I personally never liked this map because the distance from player to player is enormous so killing those expos is really the only option.
O.oSins Since Op Cal
WastedYouth
Profile Joined March 2006
United States563 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-09-19 09:27:53
September 19 2009 09:26 GMT
#3
wow this is a pretty through article. I don't have time to read it all but here's my 2 cents on hbr:

If dropships are effective on this map its for the same reason that I struggle on this map against protoss: the 2nd nat is exceedingly hard to defend because of its distance from the nat making it suseptable to drop harassment or recalling.

Early game the 2 player nature of the map similarly to destination makes it ground zero for all kinds of elaborate cheese builds. You really never know what to expect so you have to play extra cautiously.

Putting aside the fact that arbiters or imba-tors as I like to call them give protoss a ridiculous harassment and mass attack advantage on every map, they are especially crucial on hbr because its so inconvienent for terran to maintain expo and main defense let alone maintain any vestige of map control with the potential for a devestating recall at any moment.

Also its very convienent for protoss to litter the map with cannoned proxy expansions that are completely inaccessible to terran partly because of the simplicity of a counter attack due to the map's circular nature

The strange ramps void terran's range advantage without constant scans or floating buildings which is a blessing to protoss.

I frankly hate TvPing on this map but I continue to practice it at the expense of many iccup points with the hopes that I'll learn the ins and outs eventually.
Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity. Skill is what happens when luck becomes habit
drug_vict1m
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
844 Posts
September 19 2009 09:33 GMT
#4
wow, that's a big wall of text you got here.
ill read it later, thanks for the effort tho
One must feel chaos within, to give birth to a dancing star.
538
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
Hungary3932 Posts
September 19 2009 11:04 GMT
#5
Huge effort, nicely delivered, rather funny then serious though, for all the bias and lack of understanding:-p
BW fighting!
oxidized
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United States324 Posts
September 19 2009 11:32 GMT
#6
Yeah I just played a game that made me realize that timing pushes are very difficult on this map since toss can really delay easily on the ridges. Turtling is also hard because getting a fourth base is hell. That really only leaves dropship/harass play and the map does have several spots for dropping. I'm waiting for someone good to validate this idea though.
Monokeros
Profile Blog Joined November 2005
United States2493 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-09-19 12:01:57
September 19 2009 12:01 GMT
#7
On September 19 2009 20:32 oxidized wrote:
Yeah I just played a game that made me realize that timing pushes are very difficult on this map since toss can really delay easily on the ridges. Turtling is also hard because getting a fourth base is hell. That really only leaves dropship/harass play and the map does have several spots for dropping. I'm waiting for someone good to validate this idea though.



That's why I used the pro's for reference haha If not them then who else can validate it?
Keep the Dream Alive twitch.tv/monokerros
Plexa
Profile Blog Joined October 2005
Aotearoa39261 Posts
September 19 2009 12:34 GMT
#8
Wow amazing article!!
Moved to Brood War and featured
Administrator~ Spirit will set you free ~
Monokeros
Profile Blog Joined November 2005
United States2493 Posts
September 19 2009 13:45 GMT
#9
On September 19 2009 21:34 Plexa wrote:
Wow amazing article!!
Moved to Brood War and featured


Haha compliments from the article master himself :D Thanks Plexa.
Keep the Dream Alive twitch.tv/monokerros
LordWeird
Profile Blog Joined November 2007
United States3411 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-09-19 14:01:01
September 19 2009 14:00 GMT
#10
Incredible article, very thorough. I'll admit I've only read about 2/3 of it but I will say that I felt I needed to thank you. TvP is my favorite MU and it's really nice to read especially by someone who just switched to T.

Appreciate!
Chains none
Johnranger-123
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United Kingdom341 Posts
September 19 2009 14:26 GMT
#11
This was a good read, gj :D
ghostWriter
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United States3302 Posts
September 19 2009 15:49 GMT
#12
Very good read.
But I disagree about "a shot of Pusan shows his frustration". Pusan always looks like that.
Sullifam
Monokeros
Profile Blog Joined November 2005
United States2493 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-09-19 16:56:08
September 19 2009 16:54 GMT
#13
On September 20 2009 00:49 ghostWriter wrote:
Very good read.
But I disagree about "a shot of Pusan shows his frustration". Pusan always looks like that.


Yeah, that was before I had discovered the art of Youtube video --> GIF which I used for the Leta vs Reach game.

On September 19 2009 23:00 LordWeird wrote:
Incredible article, very thorough. I'll admit I've only read about 2/3 of it but I will say that I felt I needed to thank you. TvP is my favorite MU and it's really nice to read especially by someone who just switched to T.

Appreciate!


Since I probably look like it, and theres no way for you to know I didn't 'just' switch to Terran haha, I've been a Terrran user for a many years now I just had a little protoss phase in the middle and now I like more how the Protoss Icon than the Terran's.
Keep the Dream Alive twitch.tv/monokerros
ghostWriter
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United States3302 Posts
September 19 2009 23:23 GMT
#14
bump
Sullifam
3 Lions
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
United States3705 Posts
September 20 2009 00:24 GMT
#15
Really great article!
But I think you got the embed vod for Mind vs Best wrong.
It should be...
+ Show Spoiler +
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lyeMioSY144&feature=player_embedded
Mystlord *
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States10264 Posts
September 20 2009 01:09 GMT
#16
Good post Mono! My two cents - The conclusion that the key to Terran play on HBR (and most new maps nowadays) is dropships is pretty much a basic fact of TvP now. The real problem with Dropship play is the absolutely retarded positioning of the third base. There's no real way for Terrans to access it at all.

On the flip side, Terrans have an easily defendable third base as well, while any fourth base that the Protoss takes is easily harassed by Terran. I think that it's this feature of Heartbreak that's led to a lot of rather uninspiring games. Since there is no real ability for Protoss to flank or secure a nice front even, it generally comes down to Arbiters and recall to save the day for them on the map.

In my opinion, it's really damn hard for both races on HBR. I think that by the end game though, Terrans generally have it easier, but it can be really easy for Protoss to take an easy lead by setting up just a few cannons to prevent harassment. On the ICcup level, it gets extremely hard for Terrans to do well on this map though because safetoss generally pwns harassment Terran. Any timing push that Terrans do on HBR is kind of silly because Protoss can loop around the Terran army and either counter or trap them. Terran just doesn't have enough forces midgame to stop any Protoss maneuvering.
It is impossible to be a citizen if you don't make an effort to understand the most basic activities of your government. It is very difficult to thrive in an increasingly competitive world if you're a nation of doods.
Monokeros
Profile Blog Joined November 2005
United States2493 Posts
September 20 2009 01:23 GMT
#17
On September 20 2009 09:24 3 Lions wrote:
Really great article!
But I think you got the embed vod for Mind vs Best wrong.
It should be...
+ Show Spoiler +
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lyeMioSY144&feature=player_embedded


Fixed, thanks

On September 20 2009 10:09 Mystlord wrote:
Good post Mono! My two cents - The conclusion that the key to Terran play on HBR (and most new maps nowadays) is dropships is pretty much a basic fact of TvP now. The real problem with Dropship play is the absolutely retarded positioning of the third base. There's no real way for Terrans to access it at all.


When you say retarded positioning do you mean attacking the protoss' third or claiming your own? Because dropships save the day for attack, and if youre claiming your own its usually when the Protoss' units are out of position or you got time after a huge advantage in which the toss cant afford to move out to stop you.
Keep the Dream Alive twitch.tv/monokerros
oo_xerox
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United States852 Posts
September 20 2009 09:19 GMT
#18
Holy shit man this is really good stuff indeed, i hope u write more of this...
I could get a more coherent article by gluing a Sharpie to a dog's cook and letting it hump the page.
kOre
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
Canada3642 Posts
September 20 2009 09:22 GMT
#19
damn that took me a long time to read, only cus it was amazing i actually read the whole thing nice work and i hope you come up with more for other maps
http://www.starcraftmecca.net - Founder
Monokeros
Profile Blog Joined November 2005
United States2493 Posts
September 20 2009 11:37 GMT
#20
On September 20 2009 18:22 kOre wrote:
damn that took me a long time to read, only cus it was amazing i actually read the whole thing nice work and i hope you come up with more for other maps

On September 20 2009 18:19 oo_xerox wrote:
Holy shit man this is really good stuff indeed, i hope u write more of this...


Thanks guys I'm thinking of doing others for one of the newer maps, probably a summary of one (maybe two if i have time) after the first round of proleague.
Keep the Dream Alive twitch.tv/monokerros
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